Hanatan - Hajimete no Oto

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Topic Starter

Asphyxia wrote:

Just my two cents.

Some of the overmaps would be much better off as 1/2 though, especially the ones in the choruses. Since the choruses already offer enough rhythm diversity from actual 1/4's, I think keeping rest of it as 1/2 would be much more beneficial and it'd just feel overall much better with the song. I'm talking about overmaps like 01:44:143 (2,3,1) - , 01:49:318 (4) - , 01:54:118 (2) - , 03:43:993 (2,3) - , 03:48:868 (2) - and so on... (01:43:243 (5,6,7) - if you're going to do this, you might as well could try silencing the slider ends, since they don't have any beats to support their ends) I picked those notes to emphasize the vocals mostly, I could probably remove those, change the pattern to support the vocals in a different way (sliders, spacing, whatever). However I feel that those 1/4 (1/8) are fine as they are, and removing them will force me to change the struct of the patterns and it is probably not a good idea.

Slowdowns such as 01:53:293 (1) - and 03:58:093 (1) - feel weird to play, because you're still in the intense chorus part, you want to move fast. I personally don't think a slowdowns fit in the first place, but it seems that you think they fit. That being the case, I'd recommend using something faster, like 0,9 slider velo? That wouldn't feel nearly as anti-climatic as these do currently. That's the cool thing, you are moving with the intensity of the strong drums and then the long ring is coming, stopping the strong drums and the player continiues with the slider that follows the ring. I like the way the sliders go with the instrument so I am persistent on keeping it.

Lastly, I think this suffers a lot for the very same reasons as your Rolling Star map, you might remember that, but maybe that's just me... :p Map tries to be so many different things, yet it ends up being a little random in general. 04:05:293 (1) - Also, if you're going for symmetry, you might as well do it properly because this looks really off, especially when you have 04:05:893 (3,4) - these which are perfectly symmetrical. A while ago I took a look on Rolling Star, I realised how much better it could've been, but I was not experienced enough to see what stuff I could change, from poor asthetics to overall feel, I started remapping it but I lazied out in the end, I might get to it some time. I have paid a lot of attention to this map and it might be random in general, as long as it isn't wonky or completely erm, stupid, it's completely fine. Oh and for that slider, I don't know how no one noticed it by far, fixed.

Anyhow, best of luck with your map!
Topic Starter

Hula wrote:

Okay. So, you got a map disqualified.

This map was disqualified was for consistency reasons and on top of that an overarching overmapping issue. You should now decide how you're going to respond to this. People do this in one of two ways, they either accept the dq and make changes no matter how drastic they are or just grave the map, or they can take your approach and become irrational and argue irrelevant points.

Don't try to justify your map's overmap on the basis of other questionable maps' ranked status. Irreversible is one person, there's between 6 and 9 standard qualifications a day, do you want him to check every single mapset himself and dq them? (Irre is like the only active QAT right now that's dqing - which is what this system is all about).

For me what's most wrong with this map is probably the overuse of 1/4 and the spacing accompanying it. Also the lack of consistency in patterns and spacing.

One example. 01:33:493 (1,2,3,4,5) - this is a frequently recurring theme within the kiai which SHOULD be emphasised. It is. But, it's not consistent by a long shot. 01:43:093 (3,4,5,6,7) - the hell? sliders? 01:52:693 (1,2,3,4) - Now we get a nearly full screen star jump. 02:02:443 (1,2,3,4) - Now we have a pretty tame square.

This is an example of how not to be consistent. 1/4 sliders play a lot differently to star patterns and star patterns play a lot differently to much smaller squares.

In regards to those 1/8 triples being slapped in for the sake of it. Sure, they play fine, are they part of the song's rhythm in either backbeat or vocals? NOPE. So, you remove them. They don't fit.

@Monstrata Seriously, stop trying to cockblock Irre's attempts at being a QAT. He's a fucking guy, the only guy on QAT doing what QAT were instructed to do. Disqualify maps which don't meet decent standards.

This map needs a lot of work doing to it, especially in the consistency department. It is probably the fact that the inconsistently exacerbates the overmapping issue, though I would address both.

I might seem a bit pissy in this post. Cos I am, this sort of nonsense in response to mods which are aimed at helping people is so damn off putting and makes me not want to sign in. IDK how Irre puts up with this sort of shit and still wants to be such an integral part of this community.
I honestly appreciate help, but not in this way, you have completely ignored what I said previously:

Avishay wrote:

And? conept != consistency.

I am talking about concept between specific patterns, not the map overall.

As I said in the chat with Okoratu, if I find the consistency fitting to my likes in a certain part in the map / song, I'll use it.
Topic Starter
It's like people are forgetting the most important aspect of the game, enjoying it.

monstrata wrote:

Overmapping =/= poor quality.

DQ'ing solely on the basis that something is "overmapped" just isn't a valid quality reason. "You just said it yourself, it is overmapped. Fix it up."
It very well is a reason, you should not forget this is a rhythm game. If there is nothing in the song, why would you place something? I do still believe that there is good and bad overmap. This is definitely an example of bad overmap. Good overmap would be emphasizing some downbeats with a triplet from red to white; why would you emphasize an offbeat (red tick) which is almost not existant? Or even invent a stream of 5 (as seen 04:26:893 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - ) where there is no clearly hearable 1/4?

monstrata wrote:

That's just limiting new horizons.
No, because this horizon was never meant to exist, you should follow the song and not invent a new one.

monstrata wrote:

Plenty of maps have overmapped parts. You should really ask yourself why something is overmapped before telling someone to fix it. Otherwise mappers are just going to be angry because you single them out but allow many other maps with overmapped sections to pass.
You need to distinguish. I can't completely disagree, however - I am pretty sure there is bad overmap going around too. It's up to the BNs to point this stuff out and make people aware of it.

monstrata wrote:

Looking at the map some parts are indeed overmapped but I don't see these overmapped 1/8's being problematic in terms of playability, nor flow.
This does not matter (yet). Because first of all, the rhythm has to be correct. Then playability and flow has their turns.

monstrata wrote:

Do they make patterns awkward, or visually unappealing? For me, the only one i didn't really like was 03:48:493 (1,2,3) -. The others were fine. Are they difficult to read? No. Does this rhythm choice harm the map? I would actually say this rhythm choice fits the map because it adds rhythm diversity to a map that is trying to be difficult, and contributes to an overall denser rhythm choice, which fits when the map is 5.76 stars. (It's also funny because removing the "overmapped 1/8s" does nothing to lower star rating anyways. The map doesn't become any less difficult, just less dense.). In conclusion, no. I would say the 1/8's are overmapped but do not contribute to a loss of quality in the map. Therefore, why fix something that isn't broken?
It's not about the star rating, again. It's about the fact, that there is simply no 1/8 hearable at most spots.

Avishay wrote:

It's like people are forgetting the most important aspect of the game, enjoying it.
And it's like you forget that this is a rhythm game, and that there is something called rules. Yeah, the ranking criteria is pretty outdated. But it should even be seeable for you, that you should follow the song and not invent a new one.

This map won't get anywhere in its current state, if you think that this is acceptable then approach other QATs, but I won't let this go through in any case.
Topic Starter

Irreversible wrote:

And it's like you forget that this is a rhythm game, and that there is something called rules. Yeah, the ranking criteria is pretty outdated. But it should even be seeable for you, that you should follow the song and not invent a new one.
You are either completely blind or have something against me and this map.

http://osu.ppy.sh/b/433005 - non-existent 1/4s throughout the whole map
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/520208 - a lot of extreme artificial rhythm
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/343741 - ^ mostly through Tengaku ^

I could give you a lot more but those are the one that came out to my mind right now, I've resolved to pointing you to other maps (which are not from 45438950 years ago) because you are completely blind to the point I'm raising here.

Accept the fact that the mapping-meta has evolved, this is a rhythm game indeed, and mappers have the power to enhance the experience the player has with the music, using hitsounds and notes. Don't give me the bad overmap bullshit, how is spamming the whole map with spaced 1/4 to increase difficulty is fine yet some 1/4 (1/8) to enhance the vocals notes are not? I might not enjoy some of those artifical rhythms, but some other people might, just like I might not enjoy a map even if it follows the song's rhythm perfectly. It's completely retarded.
stop using past ranked maps to justify your mistakes
Topic Starter

handsome wrote:

stop using past ranked maps to justify your mistakes
My mistakes? If they were mistakes I would fix them already.

I gave my personal justifications, but since I have to I am using the ranked maps as examples because people are oblivious to those maps while they are insisting about the "problems" I have in mine.
Lmao this blew up. Literally wrote my post in 5 minutes after seeing Avishay post something about it on a reddit comment.

Just as QAT's keep BN's and mappers accountable for their maps, BN's and mappers should be able to hold QAT's accountable for their reasons for disqualification. QAT's are no longer anonymous so mappers/bn's/qat's can discuss issues before proceeding with requalification. I was addressing the overmapping issue brought up in the disqualification post. This has nothing to do with the QAT involved... I would have said the same (and I have) if anyone else had made a subjective DQ and attached an inadequate explanation. Please don't take it personally :P I made sure not to refer to or quote any names in particular because I'm concerned with the DQ, not the DQ'er.

@Avishay: I see the intention behind your 1/8's but just ask yourself whether those are necessary to emphasizing vocals/strong drums, because I feel that there are alternatives if you are willing to do a bit of restructuring. You're very critical of your note-placement even though others might not see them or understand your perspective, so you should know of other ways you can create emphasis without using a technique like overmapping that is going to start riots lol.

Let's see how this goes ;o.
Topic Starter
Congratulations, you win.

Removed all of the 1/8 notes that have no sign of appereance in the song, so yeah there are places which the 1/8 are not easily audible but they exist indeed, e.g: 01:06:943 (3,4,1) - 01:24:943 (1,2,3) - or whatever.
just dropping by and giving my 2 cents

didnt look at the map, but im pretty sure that as long as you silence the slider ends (or not) and that it fits with the song (such as slightly held out longer beats, etc) it should be fine.

a lot of maps that contain extended 3/4 sliders (which acts as a hold note for held vocals, despite not having an actual beat on the 3/4) are currently ranked and can still be ranked iirc
Topic Starter

byfar wrote:

just dropping by and giving my 2 cents

didnt look at the map, but im pretty sure that as long as you silence the slider ends (or not) and that it fits with the song (such as slightly held out longer beats, etc) it should be fine.

a lot of maps that contain extended 3/4 sliders (which acts as a hold note for held vocals, despite not having an actual beat on the 3/4) are currently ranked and can still be ranked iirc
Yeah I am aware of it, but mostly the riot discussion here was due to the triplets I used to emphasize vocals.

Eitherway, waiting for Irre's response now I guess?
Silenced ends are indeed a good technique to fully emphasize vocals.

01:53:893 (1,2,3,4) - Still overmapped.
01:51:793 (3,4,5) - Could benefit of being silenced, too.
02:43:693 (5,1) - Why is it NC'd like this? Shouldn't it be on the downbeat?

My opinion is simply that you should get more mods
Topic Starter

Irreversible wrote:

Silenced ends are indeed a good technique to fully emphasize vocals.

01:53:893 (1,2,3,4) - Still overmapped. Please listen closely, delete the note and you'll hear a note there.
01:51:793 (3,4,5) - Could benefit of being silenced, too. I have no objections, alright.
02:43:693 (5,1) - Why is it NC'd like this? Shouldn't it be on the downbeat? Moved NC to 02:43:393 (1) -

My opinion is simply that you should get more mods
00:07:693 (1) - why here did you put a nc on the strong beat and 00:02:893 and 00:05:293 you didn't?
00:35:893 (1) - i don't see a reason for this nc
00:40:843 (4) - you are leading to a strong vocal here so why stop the flow and stack?
01:00:493 (3) - nc? 01:00:043 (1) - here remove
01:01:694 (5) - i feel like you should give more emphasis on this by a bit spacing it, it's to close and weird to play imo.
01:06:493 (1) - ^^
01:09:343 (2) - ^^
01:19:543 (8,9,1) - you are leading to a big place with a lot of vocals here, i feel you should show it by spacing it much more. mb you can stack the end of 01:19:693 (1) - with 01:19:243 (6) .
01:22:093 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,1,2,1) - seems like here you ignored what is coming next, you are leading to something big so why not showing it, i really think you should space this part a bit like here 03:26:893 (5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,7) -
01:49:693 (1) - way to close for this vocal imo.
01:52:093 (4) - nc here and also space it.
01:54:118 (2,3) - i saw a lot of problems with this one, so i can suggest to make this slider 01:53:893 (1) end here 01:54:118 (and mb you can silence the end)
02:06:493 (1,2,3,4) - you can space every note in gradation, the vocals are becoming stronger every note.
02:26:293 (4) - ctrl g? strong beat.
02:37:093 (3) - you can make it more symmetrical.
03:12:943 (4,5,6) - space it
04:05:293 (1) - you can improve it, use grid snap.
04:16:093 (7) - nc?
04:43:993 (1,2) - switch nc?
04:59:793 (7) - move this slider here 04:59:743 ?
i do feel you can be more consistent in this, and you should check your emphasis on some notes in and before the hype parts.
but as irre wrote, about the huge problem of the consistency of this map and the overmapping, i feel like he is wrong, it should be improved of course,but it's not a huge deal... vocals are ok with the emphasis of notes, i didn't see a lot of overmapping actually, and about the consistency, he might not made the same patterns, but he didn't skip vocals, he used spacing and emphasis properly, so i don't see a big problem here tbh.

so what can i say, my speeches will be useless, like every other speeches of an unknown person that no one gives a shit about what he will say, gl avishay.
Topic Starter
Alright so, hello to everyone who decides to read this long post, I'd like to raise some points to get you into my perspective.

I apologize for the aggressiveness of my previous posts towards who ever gave their opinion, I'll get on why later.

So, let's start with - what exactly is a beatmap?

A map, or a beatmap, or mapping in general, is a really abstract subject. Different people will different thoughts of what it is, such as:
  1. A song.
  2. Something you can play.
  3. The mapper's song interpretation.

Obviously all of those are connected in some way, since they are what a beatmap is.
So, I'd say that generally a beatmap is a song that some mapper mapped to playable objects which the player could interact with.

What are those objects?
  1. Circles, which are simply pressed by the player to present a beat that exists in the music. (However in the current mapping-meta circles are starting to be used for different emphasizations, which I'll discuss later)
  2. Sliders, which can be used to present held instruments in the song, held vocals, or just a connecting point between two beats. I should add that sliders are manifold, you can do so much with them, the options are limited.
  3. Spinners, which well, you spin. (I don't really spinners that much, but they are useful)
  4. Hitsounds, which are a big core in the concept of a rhythm game such as osu!, personally it gives me huge satisfaction to hear them play perfectly with the rhythm. You could use them to enhance the way the map is played or the song is heard, hitsounds are not necessarily tied to the song and in my opinion should not be most of the time as well. Hitsounds are used to get the player in the rhythm and beat, to strengthen the song and many more.
  5. Timing points, which are a must, because well, you need to be tied to some rhythm the song creates, and yes, this is a critical thing in mapping, so it can't be anything less than perfect.
  6. Inherited Points (SV modifiers), which are not used every time and everywhere, but it helps the mapper to express himself a bit better.

This sums all (most?) of the objects generally without getting in too much detail.

Cool, so people are using those objects to present the song in their way, not necessarily the best way, but their way. As osu! had to start somewhere, the maps and the mappers did too, I don't know too much about the mapping-meta overall, but if you are interested you should read Hata-tan's post [url=Not necessarily]right here[/url], it's a good read.

Players evolved, mappers evolved, maps evolved and obviously the game itself did as well (thanks Peppy!), we are at a point in time where there's a huge variety in map and player levels, high-skilled players want to enjoy a big, diverse map-pool of mapped songs. I'll use an example:

- Rise Against - Prayer of the Refugee -
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/11090 - An old 2010 mapset submitted by Blatzk (with a Guest Difficulty created by Aqua92)
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/181689 - A relatively new mapset submitted by EvilElvis (collaborated with various mappers)

They are so different, the new mapset includes more difficulties to approach more players, it's great (and the old mapset was great by the terms of 2010).

There's nothing like the feeling of finishing the map(set?) of a song you like, does it end here? Nah. The player now need to choose if he wants to submit the map so everyone could find it on the website (or osu!direct), which most of the times, he'll do, afterwards he'll to pick between two routes:
  1. Leaving the map as it is, letting it die slowly and get to the beatmap graveyard (no worries you can still download and play those).
  2. Getting the beatmap more exposure by using the ranking system, if you'll get your beatmap ranked, leaderboards, performance points and ratings are going to be enabled, along with the appearance on the ranked section in the website.

So, what does it take for a beatmap to get ranked?

First of all, following the rules as seen here, no exceptions (?), please note that rules are changed over time so maps from different times are attached to a different set of rules. And the second thing, community acceptance.

Although first time I see anyone use this term, community acceptance is pretty much everything needed to get a beatmap ranked, with the rules as exception. Therefore you might see a beatmap that is widely accepted and is fun to play, yet it cannot be ranked because of the rules.

Community acceptance goes through several levels in order to get your beatmap ranked:
  1. Self acceptance - Your map, your interpretation, you are pretty much the map itself, you should be able to accept yourself.
  2. Other mappers' acceptance, or modders / modding - Other mappers are taking a look at your map, they will point their dissatisfactions with your map, usually with their way of thought and a small explanation in order to get you to understand their perspective. Mappers will respond to the modders, usually if they accepted the notes / suggestions, and if not, usually an explanation is added (sadly this is not true to all cases).
  3. Experienced mappers' acceptance, or BNs / Beatmap Nominators - Those people volunteered and then picked by the community managers to stand in the way through the ranking process, they are doing the same thing as less experienced modders do, but usually have better understanding of beatmap terms such as flow, patterns or anything else to have a fun beatmap to play. In order to get your map ranked you need two beatmap nominators to accept your map, the first acceptance will be presented as a bubble icon, and the second acceptance will be your entrance to the qualified section with the heart icon. (please note that for approval maps - non-set mapsets the acceptance requires 3 BNs or 2 bubbles and 1 approval icon)
  4. Super-experienced mappers' acceptance, or QAT / a member in the Quality Assurance Team - You're just one step before getting to the ranked section, you are in the qualified section waiting to get through the qualified maps queue and having your desire come true. However, although experienced mappers' have accepted it, there might be unrankable issues in your map such as transgressing the criteria or a lot of 'quality' problems which in the QAT's opinion are ruining the experience of playing the beatmap.

If you got through all of those stages, hooray! Your beatmap is ranked (although there are some cases where unrankable issues slipped through the qualified sections and when found are disqualified) and everyone can enjoy it completely!

However, we should remember that mapping is a huge abstract subject, some may find a specific map enjoyable while the other will find it awful (let's ignore the difficulty restriction for now), mapping is subjective and it comes in a lot of sizes and shapes, some will agree with the mapper's choices and some will not, some might find a specific pattern fun while some not. My point is that with the huge development maps have gone through the years, they are not static, they are not the same, they are versatile.

In order to support my plea, I'll list some known mappers in the community with some words and examples.

Monstrata - The god of hexagons, appeared exactly when this year began, he rose pretty quickly to be one of the famous mappers by having strong structs, fun flow, great movements and enjoyful pool of songs he maps, and obviously the great pp everyone loves. Some notable maps:
  1. M.Iz - Kakenukeru Anime Song Medley IV
  2. AKINO from bless4 & CHiCO with HoneyWorks - MIIRO vs. Ai no Scenario
    There's not too much to say on his maps, they are widely accepted and enjoyed by almost everyone.

Skystar (Previously Amamiya Yuko) - The god of irregularity and hitsounds. Gimmicky, creative, original beatmaps are Skystar itself, there are way too many words to describe Skystar's maps, there are a huge variety of different styles Skystar presented, each style might be favorable by different players. One bold thing I want to discuss is the fact that Skystar is one of the mappers that brought overmapping as an acceptable thing nowadays, the overmapping is expressed with mapping objects in a way that does not follow the music, and is generally hitsounded, the combination of those enhances the experience of playing the map, or at least that was Skystar's vision, it became somewhat accepted, yet still controversial. Some people may refer this to complete overmap, and some as artifical rhythm. Notable maps that possess the concept:
  1. EGOIST - Fallen (TV Edit) - Obviously I am referring just to the Extra difficulty, which is a collab with Irreversible, fanzhen and Skystar. This map spits out creativity and irregularity, some people find it really weird and not fun, some of those will ask why is it even ranked, while the others are enjoying it, perhaps because of differences in skill levels or other reasons. I will add and say, there are overmapped objects, notes that are not present in the song or artifical rhythms created by the mappers.
  2. Hanatan - Tengaku & Hanatan - Kagerou Variation, Starting @09:24:962 - Yeah, it's great in my opinion, but you can't ignore the huge use of circles in triplets, and I'll tell you something, they don't even exist, they're overmapped, and I think it's great.

Please note that the way I use the term god may be overexaggerating, there are many more great mappers which could replace the mappers I listed.

There are so many differences between those 2 mappers and you could even create groups and categorize the mappers amongst others such as pishifat, Hollow Wings and many more, there are so many ways to go with it.

So, how does everything connect to the main subject - me, and this beatmap, and everything in general?

There are several problems with everything, and I want to give those stuff exposure:
  1. Mapping is abstract, subjective, huge, it can not be static, mostly it is not the same between different mappers, but it is possible. In addition to mapping, mappers, players and gameplay are pretty much the same.
  2. Ranking is not and cannot be objective, never.
  3. One problem which is derived from the previous statement - two mappers might be as good as each other, one might have some friends, connections, which could lead to easier ranking progression, this problem is not that easy to solve, amongst the pool of people that don't really have those 'connections' there are bad mappers and good mappers, BNs are doing their job volunteeringly and you bet they can't check everyone's map, I'm sure it's tough.
  4. An other problem - some people will dislike a mapper's choice, it can come in different ways: The song, the patterns, the hitsounds, the asthetics, anything. I'd like to refer to something BlueDragon said almost a year ago on Genryuu Kaiko's thread:

    Blue Dragon wrote:

    OH NO people have different opinions!

    What if the maps that you consider good, are actually 1/2 spam with no spacing which people worship as "the best maps" such as some of caren's or silynn's maps, that barely follow anything in the ranking criteria and have zero technical qualify?
    People should know that maps that get ranked are the ones who have rankable quality. If you don't like it, someone else does. That's why it got ranked in the first place. People should really acknowledge that other people have different opinions.

    "This map is an overmapped piece of shit, it's not an opinion, it's a fact! just listen to the music guys, you're wrong and i'm right!!!!!"
    This is pretty much the essence of this post, there's something completely wrong here.
  5. In relation to the previous problem, I feel like there's bias in the community, known mappers are passing through qualification with the same said 'problems' that other people have in their maps. I should say that the QATs went through different changes lately, more transpernancy, more discussion and such, yet the problem persists.
  6. @Irreversible:

    Is it just me, or does it seem completely absurd? You are contradicting yourself, just the fact that other people are doing it yet are not addressed is a red flag.

I guess that as long as this gains exposure, people will present more problems, as I am sure they exist.

I disagreed and still do with the disqualification, I explained my thoughts, and I am still able to do so, as far as I know, people do enjoy the map, it represents the song and my intentions really well, yet it still got disqualified. The only reason I removed the 1/8 are because I thought I could just finish with it and avoid the headache involved, but it seems like I can't, so here I am.

I will appreciate comments and insight from players and mappers.

tl;dr: read this holy shit it took me almost 4 hours to write this Take a look at the problems right above ^
holy shit avishay

don't wanna give the party popping but if so many people tell you something (and they know what they do) then it probably means that something xd
Topic Starter

Raiden wrote:

holy shit avishay

don't wanna give the party popping but if so many people tell you something (and they know what they do) then it probably means that something xd
So many? Regardless I've raised some points generally, I'd love to get a response.
actually genryuu kaiko has premanent 1/4's but the sounds are imo not very audible.

I think some person should step in and declare finally what the fuck actually overmapping is.
People speak from overmapping and then both mean different things again. To me 04:26:893 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - theres really nothing in the song, I re-heard it like 50 times theres nothing. And that's what I understand of overmapping. Mapping to nothing. If you can explain to which beats or vocal you've mapped to and ppl can understand it afterwards than it's fine.

I partially agree with you on some points. Just work around your map it's not bad by any means. Don't do repulsive changes it doesn't help the map at all. If you feel like your 1/8's belong there just put em there and explain why.

good luck on the map. I love when ppl have their own styles. rip me.

Feb wrote:

actually genryuu kaiko has premanent 1/4's but the sounds are imo not very audible.
No it does not.
So having skimmed through a bit, I'm not really going to mod this but I just wonder why 03:05:293 (1) - isnt a slider while 01:00:493 (3) - has a slider, and every following patterns like this has sliders instead of a random anti jump. Being consistent is one thing, but this is just a sloppy miss imo.

Furthermore, I actually agree that it needs more modding. This map shows that you are not a very experienced mapper (I don't think it's a bad map, just unpolished, a bit sloppy and unreasonable patterns) and should for the sake of the map seek more mods.

I also think overmapping is fine, even if it's 1/8 slider repeats to enhance something that would do well with an enhancement.

Also don't give me kd, whatever you choose to do.

This dialogue kinda makes sense here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKlnEmJ ... be&t=9m32s
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