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Why is There No 7K Being Ranked?

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JamesHappy
678 posts
Joined January 2014
JamesHappy
rank mine also

I agree with this. Tbh i had enough of those 4k only mapsets. i know some of you don't agree with this, but remember this is osumania, not a just "4K only" game mode. I would love to play the mapset if they included another keymode for wider audience. Also i would like to see some rank maps that has at least two key modes.
Valedict
242 posts
Joined April 2013
Valedict
stepmania
Charles445
Elite Mapper II: Aspirant / osu! Paragon
2,881 posts
Joined March 2009
Charles445
I feel like there aren't as many 7K maps in pending (from what I've seen), 4K is really popularly mapped right now.
I would like to see more 7K, not sure how to go about it, though.
Bobbias
1,447 posts
Joined March 2011
Bobbias

Charles445 wrote:

I feel like there aren't as many 7K maps in pending (from what I've seen), 4K is really popularly mapped right now.
I would like to see more 7K, not sure how to go about it, though.
Yeah, there's a decline in the number of people trying to rank 7k maps in the first place. The problem with getting mods is most likely a very big contributor to that. The other issue is that since 4k serves as the introduction to mania for new players playing autoconverts (which let's face it, is where the vast majority of new mania players will start) many players are learning 4k immediately and then simply ignoring the other key modes, or claiming that they are too hard to learn. Since some of these new players will begin learning to map, and few mappers will try to map key modes they can't even play, it makes sense that there would be an increase in 4k mapping over 7k.

I've been thinking that it would be nice if mod queues got an overhaul... Currently it's a pain to try to find a mod queue that will accept certain kinds of maps. I was thinking it would be cool if there was a way to filter queues by mode, mania key modes, and accepted song length, and such. And allowing for a better way to specify if a queue is opened or closed at the time would be good.

At least it would take less time to look through queues if that were a thing. I'd bet some people would be more motivated to check for open queues more often too.
Starry-
osu! Alumni
1,074 posts
Joined December 2012
Starry-
You need to realise that BNs and modders aren't 'intentionally' ignoring 7K maps at all - the issue is based mainly because people have just stopped making legible 7K mapsets at all for rank recently.

Through my experience as a BN a few months ago the huge majority of things that were requested to me were all 4K mapsets.
4K is definitely the easiest mode to map to a rankable standard, and as a result, we have more 4K maps in pending. This means modders and BNs alike are more accustomed to, and more experienced with handling 4K mapsets simply because there are lots more of them.

If you want to see more 7K mapsets being ranked, then simply more 7K mapsets needs to be mapped first. Then hopefully we'll see more modders being more experienced with 7K mapsets, and as a result, more 7K mapsets are ranked. Pretty simple really, but everyone needs to play their part.
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze
The issue isn't BN part of modding phase
the issue is everything apart from that in modding phase
we can't really call BNs after we get 2 mods becacuse nobody mods 7k can we?
Starry-
osu! Alumni
1,074 posts
Joined December 2012
Starry-
I mentioned the BNs and modders together as I was talking about the whole modding phase generally - not only the BNs.
Basically, if more people map 7K, more people will be experienced in modding 7K. The issue really is the lack of 7K mapsets in pending right now.
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze
Lack of 7K mapsets also (and imo mainly) comes from mappers just giving up on ranking their stuff beause of how the system works
Starry-
osu! Alumni
1,074 posts
Joined December 2012
Starry-
Well if the majority of 7K mappers 'give up' then how on earth are we going to get 7K mapsets ranked at all?
At first it will be hard, of course - until a cycle is maintained where more modders are more exposed and experienced in keymodes other than 4K. But that cycle can only be maintained if more people upload 7K mapsets. There is no other way. You can't just *force* modders to magically become good at modding 7K and willing to mod 7K mapsets.

It's really as simple as that, unless you're willing to share any other ideas.
IamBaum
322 posts
Joined August 2013
IamBaum
Well It's true that most current Maps are 4K atm, but i'd still not consider 2015 as the "4K time", we still have less than half 4K - 4Star+ maps, than 7k - 4Star+ maps.
Images



Even though the most mapsets are 4k right now, most of the 7k players here wouldn't even touch most of them anyway due to the lack of difficulty.

I think it's a good thing for 4k to finally get some more "hard maps", cause the 4k community still has way less maps than the 7k one.

But plz... screw 4k and 7k, gimme some DP maps :(
Todestrieb
305 posts
Joined February 2014
Todestrieb
Osu! need more .pms
Bobbias
1,447 posts
Joined March 2011
Bobbias

Starry- wrote:

Well if the majority of 7K mappers 'give up' then how on earth are we going to get 7K mapsets ranked at all?
Figure out why they're giving up and try to fix things maybe?

Starry- wrote:

At first it will be hard, of course - until a cycle is maintained where more modders are more exposed and experienced in keymodes other than 4K. But that cycle can only be maintained if more people upload 7K mapsets.
We had people who could mod 7k. Hell, I think the majority of people who came to mania in the first year focused on 7k. It's not that 7k has never had a chance to get a foothold, but that the whole system has caused many of them to leave or quit mapping for one reason or another. Two of my favorite 7k mappers have essentially stopped mapping since they became BN, so there's that too.

Starry- wrote:

It's really as simple as that, unless you're willing to share any other ideas.
Maybe you could comment on my previous post, in which I pointed out at least one minor idea that could make things just that much easier to find mods.
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze

IamBaum wrote:

Well It's true that most current Maps are 4K atm, but i'd still not consider 2015 as the "4K time", we still have less than half 4K - 4Star+ maps, than 7k - 4Star+ maps.
Invalid argument. Star rating is underrating hard 4k unless aiae and overrating hard 7k unless mass of noodles
#thread I'm trying to get more mapsets ranked on keymodes that don't get any love, that is 5k,6k,8k and 9k, but it's just so goddamn hard that it brought me on verge of quitting countless times. Most of them were on my only attempt and ranking hard-ish 7K marathon (you know which one). And I can't imagine how shitty it had to be in the early days. That's why I'm not surprised that most of them quitted.
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Topic Starter
Aqo
I just went over the first two pages of pending and all the pending mania mapset is 4K ahhhh this is making me die inside

there needs to be separate queues based on game modes and key modes ;-;

7K Mapsets fished from pending:

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/295703 BlackY - Harpuia [4 x 7K]
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/328466 TREKKIE TRAX - Bright (Sushi Killer Remix) [3 x 7K]
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/307175 penoreri - Everlasting Message [4 x 7K]
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/324288 xi - ANiMA [6 x 7K]
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/307328 orangentle / Yu_Asahina - HAELEQUIN [5 x 7K]
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/326785 Silent Siren - Hapimari [3 x 7K]
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/310699 Shiraishi - Shinsei Taiju [4 x 7K]
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/194539 Mary - Artificial Rose [4 x 7K]
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/318277 Sakuzyo - Imprinting [3 x 7K]
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/310656 CHiCO with HoneyWorks - Ai no Scenario [2 x 7K]
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/210610 xi - Garyou Tensei [5 x 7K]
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/297478 xi - FREEDOM DiVE [???]

this took going over 10 pages. bleh. if we had a separate sorting per game mode and separate for each key mode in mania this wouldn't be so hard to find. ffs.

and why is everybody naming their diffs like SDVX wtf
and wow, for every one 7K there were like 20 4K mapsets. the situation is worse than I thought.

people here are right that autoconverts are part of the problem. the game does a poor job of introducing new players into 7K mode.
starting to give up. osu is a 4k game now...
DJPop
osu! Alumni
3,549 posts
Here since the beginning
DJPop
How about creating a 7K mapping contest? Winner (or even 2nd/3rd) gets reward like title/supporter.
That should encourage people to map in 7k mode more, or at least try to create one.
And since not many people mapping 7k at the moment, you'll need to set the minimum of contestants.
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze

DJPop wrote:

How about creating a 7K mapping contest? Winner (or even 2nd/3rd) gets reward like title/supporter.
That should encourage people to map in 7k mode more, or at least try to create one.
And since not many people mapping 7k at the moment, you'll need to set the minimum of contestants.
Well we actually do have mapping contests and I believe that next one is going to be mania only contest, so I'm looking forward to that.
wouldn't it be op if somebody would map 9k for that and win lol
Arzenvald
4,033 posts
Joined July 2013
Arzenvald
hi, i have around 4 7K set in my pending (and graveyard) map (+1 wip) that doesn't get attention by BAT (in old time) and BNs (nowadays) since... wait..

t/229233 overdrivers, i mapped it since 11 months ago..
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/169043 yakan hikou, more than 1 year ago..
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/300605 opposite world, 3 months ago and..
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/308342 claiomh solais, 2 months ago..

my problem of ranking map long time ago : i can get many 7K modders, yet i can't get BAT attention... sad..
and my problem of ranking map nowadays : there's no 7K modders who do real modding, they are give up on modding because their maps can't get attention from BN... lel sad..

and right now, ranking maps is stupid hard & nonsense, simply most of BN who checks 7K (like me) are rage-quitting, no more active 7K modders around, and old mappers quits this game...

but hey... you can always bribe some BNs & do some circle-jerks to make ranking maps easy... at least it works, even more you can bring unrankable issue through ranked if you lucky enough.. as long as "you map for the music" :V
or at least rank your maps in 2 months or lesser... trust me, it works.... mostly if you have good connection with BN friends and made you involved into a good & peaceful group chat in background..
that's how friendship power works right?


ciao
EtienneXC
Former osu!mania 4K Champion: 2015
115 posts
Joined January 2015
EtienneXC

-Tim- wrote:

stepmania
PyaKura
2,084 posts
Joined January 2013
PyaKura

-Kamikaze- wrote:

mappers just giving up on ranking their stuff beause of how the system works
I beg to differ

Seriously though, from my point of view, I'm just noticing a sharp decline in BNs who can effectively deal with 7K and higher keyamounts. But that's just me and my opinion because of a certain map I'm trying to get ranked since... oh well you all know this story anyway.
[Crz]Player
217 posts
Joined September 2011
[Crz]Player
rip 7k its 4k time
gintoki147
84 posts
Joined December 2012
gintoki147
4k should burn in hell
Valedict
242 posts
Joined April 2013
Valedict

EtienneXC wrote:

-Tim- wrote:

stepmania
-Maus-
571 posts
Joined August 2013
-Maus-

gintoki147 wrote:

4k should burn in hell
Cuppp
113 posts
Joined February 2013
Cuppp
Also if you go to multiplayer there is NEVER 7k rooms anymore. Has been that way for a while
Valedict
242 posts
Joined April 2013
Valedict
4k rejoice in second heaven
Rido
812 posts
Joined April 2014
Rido
Nice strike Usagi O.<)b
Tidek
1,571 posts
Joined March 2011
Tidek
Well, now I see like 4 new 7k beatmaps qualified in 2days + 2 of them are marathons and mapsets with extra difficulties, there is no need to complain lol.
JamesHappy
678 posts
Joined January 2014
JamesHappy
it should be balance though between other keymodes :<
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,393 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan
It's up to the community, not by the BNG. You have the choice what and how something can be ranked.
Julie
1,416 posts
Joined March 2013
Julie
Osu mania need more 7k/7+1k/9k!! PLEASE!!! :D!!
PyaKura
2,084 posts
Joined January 2013
PyaKura

Stefan wrote:

It's up to the community, not by the BNG. You have the choice what and how something can be ranked.
Although I agree with this, it is still hard to find BNs capable of checking higher keyamounts nowadays. Some of them just refuse to check because they wanna leave the BNG (I still don't get why they aren't simply allowed to quit if they want to lol, it will save us mappers a shitton of time if we don't ask people who are not willing to be BNs anymore). Last time I tried to get my mapset checked, of all 5 BNs who are supposedly knowledgeable about 7K, 4 of them just didn't feel like doing BN work anymore. I won't reveal any names, and most of them are hardly hidden facts anyway.

edit : I haven't been on for this past week, I have no idea whether we got fresh BNs or not.
-Maus-
571 posts
Joined August 2013
-Maus-
Pya sums it all up in one post
Evening
2,464 posts
Joined December 2012
Evening

PyaKura wrote:

edit : I haven't been on for this past week, I have no idea whether we got fresh BNs or not.
hahahaha


no


(for mania specific)
abraker
Global Moderator
8,295 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker
There doesn't seem to be new 7k mappers (unless I didn't notice). New players are likely to default to 4k if they haven't played beatmania or another rhythm game with 7k beforehand, hence there being more of them. Taking a look, it seems that past 7k mappers are taking time off. A list of them here, with ??? if not sure if they are contributing to the lack of 7k maps or not. This list is based on players that started beatmap projects or are QAT. I did not go through the BN list and may have missed several players, so this may not be accurate. Feel free to add to this:

inactive or partially inactive:active:But there are still 7k maps being ranked. Otherwise, clearly I am imagining stuff!!!
PyaKura
2,084 posts
Joined January 2013
PyaKura
I'm not sure what your list is worth if it is uncomplete there...
I was not clear enough perhaps, but what we lack are BNs capable of dealing with very hard mapsets. None of the sets you've linked there are above 6 stars (nor even 5 stars ???) apart from Achromat which was ranked a while ago, when BNs were still actually somewhat active, and then got unranked for some stupid reason.
abraker
Global Moderator
8,295 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker
I was not clear enough perhaps, but what we lack are BNs capable of dealing with very hard mapsets.
If you guys are complaining, become BNs. "Simple" as that. Then you guys say: No time, busy irl... *sigh*

PyaKura wrote:

None of the sets you've linked there are above 6 stars (nor even 5 stars ???)
True, I just linked recent ranked/qual 7k. Anyway, 5-6 star charts are above my level so it doesn't affect me that much. I'm actually benefiting from all the 4k maps recently. Oh wait... /me runs
Charles445
Elite Mapper II: Aspirant / osu! Paragon
2,881 posts
Joined March 2009
Charles445

PyaKura wrote:

what we lack are BNs capable of dealing with very hard mapsets.
I agree with this totally, I try to look at a 17VA set and I'm all like "yo these noodles man, I can't handle these"

Fortunately now's application time, if there's anybody wanting to assist -> t/343642
Bobbias
1,447 posts
Joined March 2011
Bobbias

abraker wrote:

I was not clear enough perhaps, but what we lack are BNs capable of dealing with very hard mapsets.
If you guys are complaining, become BNs. "Simple" as that. Then you guys say: No time, busy irl... *sigh*

PyaKura wrote:

None of the sets you've linked there are above 6 stars (nor even 5 stars ???)
True, I just linked recent ranked/qual 7k. Anyway, 5-6 star charts are above my level so it doesn't affect me that much. I'm actually benefiting from all the 4k maps recently. Oh wait... /me runs
Telling every person who complains about BNs to become BNs is completely unreasonable. Some people literally do not have the time because of IRL obligations, regardless of whether you accept that as a reason. Beyond that there's the workload of being a BN. Just gonna put this out there, but ExPew has not made many maps since he became BN, and doesnt have anything in pending right now. Listing him as active might not be the best idea.
abraker
Global Moderator
8,295 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker

Bobbias wrote:

Telling every person who complains about BNs to become BNs is completely unreasonable. Some people literally do not have the time because of IRL obligations, regardless of whether you accept that as a reason.
Understandable. My comment wasn't meant to be taken seriously.

Bobbias wrote:

Just gonna put this out there, but ExPew has not made many maps since he became BN, and doesnt have anything in pending right now. Listing him as active might not be the best idea.
He still helps getting the more complicated 7k maps checked out as a QAT.
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze
abraker and his theories, this is making me sick already...

If you think it's so easy to become a BN try to become one yourself, THEN talk about it.
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