Whether something is overmapped or not is not a subjective question, either there is a beat there or not. Whether it feels good to have something mapped there is an entirely different thing, and players without any knowledge of mapping will find the most stupid maps good as long as they are playable (not saying your map is stupid, just saying that player's opinions don't mean anything)

I like how you're bringing "If you map could fit in other songs with the same BPM, then your map is bad" when you are literally overmapping tons of stuff just to make it exciting to play. Your triplets and streams would fit in any other song just as well simply because they aren't even existing in this song in the first place.

"I even feel you checked the map without even listening to the music." Yeah right, that's why I'm pointing out overmaps. ok
I know what you want to represent with those sliders and other overmaps of all sorts, I just think that overmapping is a very bad way to do that. There are thousands of ways to emphasize everything you want without resorting to overmapping, and that's what I want to encourage, because it seems like you are just overmapping to make the map be exciting when that could be done in so many other ways.

And yeah, starting to tell us your reasons for all those sliders and overmaps instead of "I think it fits" would be a great way to start rational discussion too btw

Bonsai wrote:

And yeah, starting to tell us your reasons for all those sliders and overmaps instead of "I think it fits" would be a great way to start rational discussion too btw

I wanted to do it, but your points totally demotivated me. Anyway that's what I'm trying to do in #modhelp, I'll give a sum up

01:46:092 (3,3,3,2,1,2) - are used to simulate hold notes which in this case fits the low pitch of the instruments
02:21:315 (4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,1,2) - overmap in this section fits with the musical intensity and helps with the built up along with the rising pitch

02:25:199 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,1,2,1) - unfortunately, this is indeed 1/3, i cant justify this

Considering how his buildup is 1/4th using interpreted streams on 1/2 beats I find it PRETTY stupid that we're arguing the section that has MORE BEATS than the previous to be overmapped.

It makes no sense to change that last stream to 1/3rd given how this song was mapped. The mapper obviously knew this and is defending it because if you change it then it just ruins how it plays...

How about you guys wait for the mapper's response before trying to put words in their mouth?

going to bed now hihi, waking up tomorrow will be fun

Bonsai wrote:

How about you guys wait for the mapper's response before trying to put words in their mouth?

Is a discussion anyone can bring their opinion, not only the mapper (since is a community discussion).
Anyways Yales is doing something at the 1/3 part, lets hope this can be resolved sooner

I'll edit this with some suggestion for that part.

Bonsai wrote:

not saying your map is stupid, just saying that player's opinions don't mean anything) That's pretty good to mention, because when you say that my overmapping or w/e are "ridiculous" this is the message you're bringing.

I like how you're bringing "If you map could fit in other songs with the same BPM, then your map is bad" when you are literally overmapping tons of stuff just to make it exciting to play. Your triplets and streams would fit in any other song just as well simply because they aren't even existing in this song in the first place. Actually this map is way easier than what most mappers would make nowadays for a song like that, so saying I mapped this way to make it exciting is so-so.

"I even feel you checked the map without even listening to the music." Yeah right, that's why I'm pointing out overmaps. ok
I know what you want to represent with those sliders and other overmaps of all sorts, I just think that overmapping is a very bad way to do that. There are thousands of ways to emphasize everything you want without resorting to overmapping, and that's what I want to encourage, because it seems like you are just overmapping to make the map be exciting when that could be done in so many other ways. But what if it fits to me? I mean.. My favourite mappers tend to do that as well, I have more faith in them than 2 or 3 modders.

A 1/2-slider, maybe with one reverse, would be a hold note too, and would not ignore the fact that that 'low' instrument actually has a 1/2-beat inbetween which is being completely ignored this way. Why does it need to be 1/8 when there is no 1/8 in the music? I don't even want to asnwer that because this is way too subjective, the music is defenitely not flat 1/1 or 1/2. To me if you map like this you miss a chance to show the potential of those sounds my sliders are following

It doesn't seem like he's 'ovbiously' knowing that when all he says is "I asked players and they said 1/4 is fine". The question was already mentioned (on another stream actually) and from that I asked multiple people to be sure of myself. At the end Desperate-kun checked the streams and said: " I really like the 'overmapped' stream and the 1/8 gimmicks you used, they fit the song well for me, I wouldn't worry about those. " So no, your point of view isn't general.

(maybe because the rest didn't fit that well in the first place?!? deep thoughts ikr) Actually no, to me 1/4 fits great, and I really, sincerly doubt you found this part was 1/3 by looking the map at first sight and without deleting the whole stream put the audio at 25% speed etc... Like "it's so obvious it's 1/3.."

Your point of view is welcome. But I won't change my style because of it. As I said (or as I wanted to say lol) the feedbacks I got from some specific mappers have way more impact than some random modders (which are, don't get me wrong, interesting to hear, but won't necessarily make a difference).

I found the way Shiirn asked me to change it (instead of "suggesting" it) wayyyyyy to harsh for something that is, to me debatable (as I said and showed, some people such as myself, think it's actually fitting and sounds good). But at least he gave me an idea of how I could do it, I appreciate.

After that, I, at least, tried to make something with those 1/3. But first off, even if the beats are 1/3 I still think there's a drumroll behind. Like, I'm sorry but it's not crystal-clear it's 1/3. When I hear sounds like 02:25:467 (5) - it's not in my 1/3 mapping dictionary. Then the melody is sticked on 1/2 02:25:601 (7) - . So unless you want to burst some 336 bpm... Oh I could add reverse but it would feel way too slow compared to the whole pacing, and here comes the last point which is a sum up of all those points: The fact that the music isn't obvious 1/3, the fact it's right at the middle of a stream section it makes those 1/3 totally awakward to play and totally breaks the flow of the whole section as they are totally unexpected. And I mean... it fits to me and I'm not like the only one who will agree with that sooo I don't get why I have to change it as it isn't obvious and actually help the player in the process.

Natsu if you can bring some suggestions it'll be with pleasure I'll check them, but meanwhile I'm fine with its current state.

Shiirn wrote:

Didn't Loctav say something about not using other maps as justification for other maps?

I don't want to offense anyone but I think this is a pretty dumb statement since you get inspired by other maps while mapping.. (after that it's up to you to know what's fitting or not but it becomes subjective).

http://puu.sh/nExzW/f6ae693ecc.jpg
is how I'd map it

edit: actually this fits the synth better

Liiraye wrote:

http://puu.sh/nExzW/f6ae693ecc.jpg
is how I'd map it

edit: actually this fits the synth better

Thanks for your suggestion, really much appreciated. But then it doesn't follow the melody, and the last downbeat not being hit isn't smthing I like.

Also, we shouldn't forget that if there's kick sliders here 02:25:735 (1,2,1,2) - it's because the music gets more intense in this whole section.
Therefore since it seems we don't need the thoughts of players (as they could "simply mash their keyboard" mhmh), we should just follow the music in a way that it makes sense I found this meanwhile http://puu.sh/nEBoW/d275bec69e.jpg (I'm dead serious about this btw). I mean pace seems approrpiate, most audible beats (I'll keep saying there's a drumroll behind) are followed too. I'm like why not. Or can I ask someone to edit mp3? Pretty sure it's possible to be fixed this way. I mean it's not like we would actually hear something different ...

Yales wrote:

Liiraye wrote:

http://puu.sh/nExzW/f6ae693ecc.jpg
is how I'd map it

edit: actually this fits the synth better

Thanks for your suggestion, really much appreciated. But then it doesn't follow the melody, and the last downbeat not being hit isn't smthing I like.

Also, we shouldn't forget that if there's kick sliders here 02:25:735 (1,2,1,2) - it's because the music gets more intense in this whole section.
Therefore since it seems we don't need the thoughts of players (as they could "simply mash their keyboard" mhmh), we should just follow the music in a way that it makes sense I found this meanwhile http://puu.sh/nEBoW/d275bec69e.jpg (I'm dead serious about this btw). I mean pace seems approrpiate, most audible beats (I'll keep saying there's a drumroll behind) are followed too. I'm like why not. Or can I ask someone to edit mp3? Pretty sure it's possible to be fixed this way. I mean it's not like we would actually hear something different ...

if it come to that I can do that for you probably.

Just dropping my opinion, this is definitely 1/3 from 02:25:199 - to 02:26:270 -
You're following a particular sound for 02:24:128 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,1,2) - and it's 1/4 here. There is the same sound from 02:25:199 - to 02:26:270 - but it's 1/3. You should make things consistent.
Even if you believe that 1/4 fits this part better, (tbh me too). A map must follow the song beforeall, it includes that everything must be snapped in time.

It already happened to me when i was mapping and ranking Installation, but songs are sometimes weird

Yales wrote:

Liiraye wrote:

http://puu.sh/nExzW/f6ae693ecc.jpg
is how I'd map it

edit: actually this fits the synth better

Thanks for your suggestion, really much appreciated. But then it doesn't follow the melody, and the last downbeat not being hit isn't smthing I like.

Also, we shouldn't forget that if there's kick sliders here 02:25:735 (1,2,1,2) - it's because the music gets more intense in this whole section.
Therefore since it seems we don't need the thoughts of players (as they could "simply mash their keyboard" mhmh), we should just follow the music in a way that it makes sense I found this meanwhile http://puu.sh/nEBoW/d275bec69e.jpg (I'm dead serious about this btw). I mean pace seems approrpiate, most audible beats (I'll keep saying there's a drumroll behind) are followed too. I'm like why not. Or can I ask someone to edit mp3? Pretty sure it's possible to be fixed this way. I mean it's not like we would actually hear something different ...

isn't that pic you did like making a 1/8 stream on a 1/4? using 1/6 triples on 1/3 notes...

generally a rule of thumb is to start a stance shift with sliders/repeat sliders so that the player doesn't get suddenly thrown off by going from 1/4 to 1/3, especially in a fast map like this in the middle of stream (not sure how much good this will do in scorev2 tho lol)

since the 1/3 is hard to hear, I'd suggest following the synths as I did, since they are more audible than the 1/3 while playing. Try it out and see what you think, good luck regardless!

Liiraye wrote:

isn't that pic you did like making a 1/8 stream on a 1/4? using 1/6 triples on 1/3 notes...

generally a rule of thumb is to start a stance shift with sliders/repeat sliders so that the player doesn't get suddenly thrown off by going from 1/4 to 1/3, especially in a fast map like this in the middle of stream (not sure how much good this will do in scorev2 tho lol)

since the 1/3 is hard to hear, I'd suggest following the synths as I did, since they are more audible than the 1/3 while playing. Try it out and see what you think, good luck regardless!

No it's mapped full 1/3 with 1/6 triples to follow the melody. Since it seems it will get dq for rhythm problem (without taking into account how smooth it is for the player) I wouldn't care so much about how hard it is to hit some 336 BPM. After all. The music allows it.
I tried your suggestion but as I pointed out there's a few things that bother me a little bit. It was the MOST intense part of the whole map. Understand that putting 1/3 slider reverse after that feels a bit empty.

"Since 1/3 is hard to hear" ... Ya well I don't even want to put those 1/3 so why shall I even make something to prepare the player for it? If you think it needs DQ cause it so obvious the snapping is wrong I'm gonna put some REAL 1/3. No excuse. (Shiirn and Bonsai clearly told me that players' opinion doesn't matter anyway... you made a nice catch there lol).

On the other hand seems someone could edit MP3... :3 Xexxar <3 (for what it's worth ... I mean CB agree it's 1/3 but also agree 1/4 fits better...)

It's somehow weird QATs haven't come yet, even after there was a healthy discussion here and there are few points to fix. o.o

HappyRocket88 wrote:

It's somehow weird QATs haven't come yet, even after there was a healthy discussion here and there are few points to fix. o.o

"to fix" ... mhhhhhhhh not sure about that tbh XD

because there are no qat

I guess I should take this mapset out of the Qualified category and let the discussion continue before a conclusion from the community is drawn.

Smoothie World wrote:

00:32:699 - Does anyone else think the hitsounds hear are nearly impossible to hear? I have mine pretty loud and I had trouble hearing them

00:04:708 (2,1) - Why is this 6.71x spacing? I don't get it. At 00:06:851 (2,1) you have 3.5x and 00:08:994 (2,1) is even smaller, meanwhile the song is getting more and more intense.

00:12:811 - You don't have a triple on this tick anywhere else in the song. It's mapped to nothing.

I actually agree. At least the inaudible hitsounds should be fixed before moving on.

-------
As for 02:25:199 - to 02:26:270 - , I have reservations about putting them as 1/4 streams for the sake of playability. Following the music is the basic essence of the game. So, probably change the snaps?

I hope everything onwards is constructive. Good luck with the requalification, Yales.

DQ #2

It's not inaudible at all.
40% is enough and proportionate with all my sections.

About the jump I already explained why I think it's fine. And I definitely won't touch it. 6.00 when the SV is 0.5 won't kill anyone btw.

Fixed the stream, it is now nicely snapped . (Since it seems they were like -so obvious-). The triples are for the melody. Better follow everything properly right. (If you disagree with it. After all the craps you said about players' opinion don't matter you better have some massive arguments about why I should change it). Also, I recieved a few complaints that my map was too easy for a snowdrive, it will also fix this in the process. Those 1/3 beats were a nice catch ! Thanks!

Here's a few things that I see coming and I already have the answers:
- But it's too hard --- I don't care so much about that.
(" just saying that player's opinions don't mean anything" - Bonsai) Also Shiirn told me exactly the same thing in #modhelp

- But it's unexpected --- the 1/3 in the music themselves are unexpected...how can I be more accurate then? (I mean this is at least unexpected to me... this point coming out for the first time after a few 50 mods lol)
More to come.

---

KD goes for being supportive (it's way more helpful than any mod, just sayin)

Don't feel offended from people modding your map. If you think they are rude, don't make a rude reply, contact a moderator instead. If you think they are talking nonsense, don't make a nonsense reply. If you run into a situation where you don't know what to do with your map, take a break for a few days and think about it carefully before making hasty decisions.

You don't have to fix things you don't agree with if you give proper reasoning for it. You and me know that the stream thing was much better before you changed it. Personally I didn't notice the stream wasn't on correct snap all the time I modded the map, because the music is pretty noisy and the stream sounded and played fine ingame. That's also the reason why I would say using 1/4 is fine there as a simplification. (Simplification because it is much easier and intuitive to play, even though 1/4 is more dense than 1/3). If you think the same then explain it exactly like that, short but reasonable. Don't write huge paragraphs about how you could make it even worse. Don't try to be ironic by saying you don't care about the players, because I know you do.

Do what you want with the map, just know that I am not willing to rebubble it with the 1/6 patterns.

So it's fine to map 1/4 on 1/3 because it's simplifying for the player? I mean of course it's intuitive to keep streaming after such a long stream, but that doesn't mean it's any more rankable. There are tonnes of maps with mixed in 1/3 (I happen to map quite a few myself) where you have to compromise your patterning in order to follow the music to the form it was composed. Is his 1/6 patterns any different from that just because it made the map harder to play or because it's stupid? Seems like anything goes if it's easier and intuitive, and I believe mappers like yales is getting a lot of mixed signals here. Please be more clear and objective.

Just checking so I can add this to my rewritten version of the ranking criteria

It depends. The reason we follow snaps is to make the hitsounds fitting and intuitive in gameplay. In this case 1/4 doesn't sound off to me at all due to the noisyness of the song. It is a subjective topic really. I am not trying to be objective, we are discussing a gameplay aspect here that is nothing about objectivity.
There are some cases where it doesn't make sense to discuss about wether snappings are worth fixing or not (for example if you have a short repeated slider anyways, and it's on wrong snap, you can just change the snap without changing the gameplay experience). But in cases like this it's a critical topic.

Also, Yales could just have the mp3 edited so the sounds are on 1/4, and nobody would even notice the difference ingame (or when listening to the map at normal speed). So it doesn't even change anything. However, it's an option to satisfy everyone, except those who say mp3s should not be edited for some reason but that is an entirely different topic.

If he edits it accordingly I have no issues here. We are talking about the rule saying no unsnapped notes, isn't that as objective as it gets?

Claiming it should be mapped ignoring this rule is a subjective statement. You say it's easier/more intuitive to play, I ask when did we start catering to players instead of striving to do justice to it's composers work & the actual sounds it provides us?

The composer made it 1/3 for a reason. This is for example why sometimes, having empty sliderends is fine because they aren't ignoring the music, instead adding an aspect to it. There's a clear distinction there.

Or am I missing something here?

Liiraye wrote:

If he edits it accordingly I have no issues here. We are talking about the rule saying no unsnapped notes, isn't that as objective as it gets?

Claiming it should be mapped ignoring this rule is a subjective statement. You say it's easier/more intuitive to play, I ask when did we start catering to players instead of striving to do justice to it's composers work & the actual sounds it provides us?

The composer made it 1/3 for a reason. This is for example why sometimes, having empty sliderends is fine because they aren't ignoring the music, instead adding an aspect to it. There's a clear distinction there.

Or am I missing something here?

extended sliders are basically the same unsnapped thing... (In most of cases) so being hard rule to snap to the music would kill this too , since any defense to them will be subjective as well, so the comparison is almost the same.

Anyways Yales, I think using 1/3 sliders jump is the best option you have, is just a tiny section of your map, so I guess making it a bit more comfortable for players will be nice (If you need a bit help with timeline catch me in game), anyways take sometime to think calm about it.

Sure, I understand how you're reasoning, but there's a reason why a high percentage of maps today use, and are allowed to use silenced sliderends in ranked maps, while none use 1/4 streams on a 1/3 section.

So no, it's not the same thing since they don't ignore the music, they add to the gameplay aspect.
There's a clear difference and I hope everyone can see & understand this. If not let's go and unrank every other map we rank today. Hurr

I'm against using 1/3 slider repeats because yes, they take away from the impact well. But after a few 1/4 sliders its not difficult to transition into a 1/3 stream especially when it starts on a downbeat. However both the composition and 1/6 triples in that section is pretty much unreadable, extreme, and uncalled for, I think you know that. Pretty sure everyone would be happier if you'd just remap the 1/3 section appropriately and push this map forward rather than wasting time trying to spite people with your own creative work.

What I mean with this pattern is clearly that it's not because you're following the music perfectly that it's for the best. The triples are the proof of it as handsome explained "both the composition and 1/6 triples in that section is pretty much unreadable" yet the triples are correct and could be totally plausible by following the logic a few people told me to. But for the reason Desperate-kun gave, and because hansome gave valid arguments (and because everyone seems helpful e.e) I won't keep it.

I did explain myself about it though. Yes the beats are snapped 1/3, yet the music, as Desperate-kun said is really "noisy" I would even say there's a drumroll behind this which allows a full stream. Once more, sounds like this 02:25:467 - (until the end) are not 1/3. it might feel low compared to the 1/3 beats but in full speed this is actually what you hear. And it actually goes the same for the beginning of this "1/3 section"

I mean the 1/3 are clearly not that obvious, you kinda have to delete all notes, play audio at 25% and focus quite a little bit to find it (which makes me kinda wonder about the intentions of the first guy who found it....... That's another subject I guess). Adding to it, that because the 1/3 are unexpected and inaudible it's really awkward not only to play but to look at (especially considering the pace of this section).

As Desperate-kun said as well " Yales could just have the mp3 edited so the sounds are on 1/4, and nobody would even notice the difference ingame (or when listening to the map at normal speed)" that's also what I said and this is the reason why I disagree with that point.

Thanks for being supportive >.<

PS: While it's DQ I'll ask there, d'you think the offset is ok? I feel that 1642~ might actually be better???)

Yales wrote:

What I mean with this pattern is clearly that it's not because you're following the music perfectly that it's for the best. The triples are the proof of it as handsome explained "both the composition and 1/6 triples in that section is pretty much unreadable" yet the triples are correct and could be totally plausible by following the logic a few people told me to. But for the reason Desperate-kun gave, and because hansome gave valid arguments (and because everyone seems helpful e.e) I won't keep it.

I did explain myself about it though. Yes the beats are snapped 1/3, yet the music, as Desperate-kun said is really "noisy" I would even say there's a drumroll behind this which allows a full stream. Once more, sounds like this 02:25:467 - (until the end) are not 1/3. it might feel low compared to the 1/3 beats but in full speed this is actually what you hear. And it actually goes the same for the beginning of this "1/3 section"

I mean the 1/3 are clearly not that obvious, you kinda have to delete all notes, play audio at 25% and focus quite a little bit to find it (which makes me kinda wonder about the intentions of the first guy who found it....... That's another subject I guess). Adding to it, that because the 1/3 are unexpected and inaudible it's really awkward not only to play but to look at (especially considering the pace of this section).

As Desperate-kun said as well " Yales could just have the mp3 edited so the sounds are on 1/4, and nobody would even notice the difference ingame (or when listening to the map at normal speed)" that's also what I said and this is the reason why I disagree with this point.

Thanks for being supportive >.<

PS: While it's DQ I'll ask there, d'you think the offset is ok? I feel that 1642~ might actually be better???)

What no, the 1/6 is not comparable as a substitute to 1/3 at all. What logic are you applying here? If you wanted to prove me wrong, use 1/3..

You're trying to make excuses for a clear error and undermine it by hinting that the guy who found it did so to mess with you? I mean even if that is the case, wouldn't you be happy that he helped improve your map by finding it? I myself have found errors in my own ranked map and wish someone would've found them in time thinking back, because now I regret it.

If you want to edit it go ahead, I'm sure nobody will mind, but the fact that you keep defending it in every way you can while all of us here knows there's an objective error in the map is a bit silly to me.

Liiraye wrote:

What no, the 1/6 is not comparable as a substitute to 1/3 at all. What logic are you applying here? If you wanted to prove me wrong, use 1/3..

You're trying to make excuses for a clear error and undermine it by hinting that the guy who found it did so to mess with you? I mean even if that is the case, wouldn't you be happy that he helped improve your map by finding it? I myself have found errors in my own ranked map and wish someone would've found them in time thinking back, because now I regret it.

If you want to edit it go ahead, I'm sure nobody will mind, but the fact that you keep defending it in every way you can while all of us here knows there's an objective error in the map is a bit silly to me.

The melody is sticked on 1/2. The 1/6 were, hence, following it (as it follows beats+melody). The 1/6 triples were NOT mapped on nothing.

I don't try to make excuses, I'm giving arugments (which follows the ones of Desperate-kun imo).

And for the reasons I said, I don't think that 1/3 here is going to help my map to improve, that's the whole problem of this point for me (and I'm not the only one saying that 1/4 actually fits better). Otherwise I would have changed it right away.

Right... I know when to give up. GL with ranking!

Alright, redownload set, the 1/3 section is now fixed.

...

Shall we go?

Forget this post

Thanks for checking :3

good luck T_T

just one more thing i'd like to point out.

Bonsai wrote:

Also, minor but imo unfitting nonetheless, 02:16:628 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,4,5) - the music is kinda going half-BPM but you just throw jumps around anyways, I don't think that represents the music very well

i really think you should take this into consideration, although it sounds very similar to the section here: 01:20:359 - , the drum pattern is going half time and the music definitely changes. in my opinion, and i think many people will agree with me here, it should be represented with slightly lower slider velocity as well as less rhythm density than you have going on. yes i do understand where you're coming from, it could be interpreted as 'tension' and therefore you threw some jumps here and there. however you could keep in mind the context of the song and its adjacent sections and show that the music drops in intensity from here: 02:17:145 - , so that it gives more impact to the stream section from 02:23:573 - onwards. it's more of a buildup with lots of tension rather than a really intense part that requires lots of movement.

similarly, you could try adjusting this section 02:21:430 - to something like http://i.imgur.com/PQnS4c4.png without the usage of 1/2 jumps or long streams (the 9 note stream seemed off) because the music hasn't switched back to normal time yet (snares kick in at 02:23:573 - ). the main point would be to similarly reduce the rhythm density, so that the section afterward feels more difficult and thus, give more impact.

yes i wrote a lot of words for this because i feel strongly about it and i didn't really like the reason of 'i prefer this'.

handsome wrote:

just one more thing i'd like to point out.

Bonsai wrote:

Also, minor but imo unfitting nonetheless, 02:16:628 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,4,5) - the music is kinda going half-BPM but you just throw jumps around anyways, I don't think that represents the music very well

i really think you should take this into consideration, although it sounds very similar to the section here: 01:20:359 - , the drum pattern is going half time and the music definitely changes. in my opinion, and i think many people will agree with me here, it should be represented with slightly lower slider velocity as well as less rhythm density than you have going on. yes i do understand where you're coming from, it could be interpreted as 'tension' and therefore you threw some jumps here and there. however you could keep in mind the context of the song and its adjacent sections and show that the music drops in intensity from here: 02:17:145 - , so that it gives more impact to the stream section from 02:23:573 - onwards. it's more of a buildup with lots of tension rather than a really intense part that requires lots of movement.

similarly, you could try adjusting this section 02:21:430 - to something like http://i.imgur.com/PQnS4c4.png without the usage of 1/2 jumps or long streams (the 9 note stream seemed off) because the music hasn't switched back to normal time yet (snares kick in at 02:23:573 - ). the main point would be to similarly reduce the rhythm density, so that the section afterward feels more difficult and thus, give more impact.

yes i wrote a lot of words for this because i feel strongly about it and i didn't really like the reason of 'i prefer this'.

Not changing that section, never xD. First of all as you said the music might be half beat or whatever but the section is really intense (I mean, even last time I hesitated to put a kiai here...) But not only this. I actully based those patterns on the intensity of the vocal. there's a clear difference between 02:19:287 (1,2,1,2) - and 02:20:225 (1,2) - same for previous part. I mean the vocal before the 1/1 sliders is way more intense and sharped than those smooth 1/1. So no, I highly disagree with your point. Those jumps are far from being "random". The fact there's 1/1 sliders already slow down the pace of the section quite a bit before the streams. Not to mention that those jumps give actually more impact on those 1/1.

Not sure to get your last point (and the fact that I really don't see a problem here neither doesn't help :c) I mean if I would change it, following my own logic which is to map the stream on the long drums would be to do something like this http://puu.sh/nHzZ7/c40cf5b3f4.jpg but then I don't find it really natural to play cause it doesn't go along with the vocal as well. I think those triples are "preparing the ground" good enough. Also I think that pattern like 02:25:180 (1,2,1,2) - is really intense the way it is, no really need to slow down before to give more impact to it.

Rip :c I can't feel the rhythm to this beatmap anymore.

I like this map

I'd mod but I suck at modding

Man I really want to see this ranked \o/ . I've been playing this map since it came out and a lot changed. It makes me think how trying to rank a beatmap involves changing, sometimes to better stuff sometimes to worst stuff. Well I'll try to give you some help Yales, but I'm new in this mod think and my style of mod is not convencional, so feel free to use this the way you prefer

Insane:

1)This slider 00:11:520 (3) - - can end at 00:11:653 - instead of 00:11:520 (3) - , makes it easier from a player perspective, but if you want to keep this section hard, then don't mind it. Same applies to this slider 00:32:431 (8) -
2)I have a question. In this part of the music you made the sliders in sequence 00:15:002 (1,2,3,4) - but in this part that is similar 00:23:573 (1,2,3,4) - on the song you changed the order of the sliders. If it's because of compose purposes there's no need to change it, but remember that making sections similar always help with the flow. This part is a great example of that:00:19:823 (1,2,3,4,1) - - and here00:41:386 (1,2,3,1) -
3)This hit circle 01:24:128 (1) - could be an unique combo, it would be great since the final part of this also finishes with an isoleted hitcircle 01:26:270 (1) -
4) I don't know what to think about this 03:14:485 (1,1) - . As a mapper I love this, as a player this is hell hard IGNORE THIS
5)For some reason I didn't feel this part with as much flow as the rest of the chorus, I can't explain it tho, but it felt slow somehow, total personal perspective tho 03:29:332 (3,1) - . That's the only part of the entire map I think you could actually make any changes on the compose, the rest is GREAT!!!
Now I'll point things that I hope you don't change in the future:
DUDE THIS LOOKS SO COOL 01:58:930 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1) - PLS DON"T LISTEN TO PPL, KEEP THIS!!!

I'm new in modding so I can't help with the other diff. But I mean it when I say I really like your Omoi trilogy. Really want it ranked. Take my star senpai o/

->I've edited, it seems it wasn't updated, sorry about that.

Net0 wrote:

Man I really want to see this ranked \o/ . I've been playing this map since it came out and a lot changed. It makes me think how trying to rank a beatmap involves changing, sometimes to better stuff sometimes to worst stuff. Well I'll try to give you some help Yales, but I'm new in this mod think and my style of mod is not convencional, so feel free to use this the way you prefer

Insane:

1)This slider 00:11:520 (3) - - can end at 00:11:653 - instead of 00:11:520 (3) - , makes it easier from a player perspective, but if you want to keep this section hard, then don't mind it. Same applies to this slider 00:32:431 (8) - I'm just following the music though. It might be surprising if you expect a triple but it's not really hard to play.
2)I have a question. In this part of the music you made the sliders in sequence 00:15:002 (1,2,3,4) - but in this part that is similar 00:23:573 (1,2,3,4) - on the song you changed the order of the sliders. If it's because of compose purposes there's no need to change it, but remember that making sections similar always help with the flow. This part is a great example of that:00:19:823 (1,2,3,4,1) - - and here00:41:386 (1,2,3,1) - I'm not sure it gives a better flow to take the same parts over and over again. It might sounds easier to you right now, because you're already used to a certain movement. But it's not harder or something, it's just slightly different to give a little bit of variations (otherwise the map would be pretty boring)
3)This hit circle 01:24:128 (1) - could be an unique combo, it would be great since the final part of this also finishes with an isoleted hitcircle 01:26:270 (1) - Considering the fact that it's also what I did on extra+freeze, this is actually a good point and I take that.
4) I don't know what to think about this 03:14:485 (1,1) - . As a mapper I love this, as a player this is hell hard IGNORE THIS
5)For some reason I didn't feel this part with as much flow as the rest of the chorus, I can't explain it tho, but it felt slow somehow, total personal perspective tho 03:29:332 (3,1) - . That's the only part of the entire map I think you could actually make any changes on the compose, the rest is GREAT!!! Ya.. I somehow decided to give the emphasize by undermapping those sliders to give something different to play to the player. This is just another way to map this part. I personally prefer this way by the way
Now I'll point things that I hope you don't change in the future:
DUDE THIS LOOKS SO COOL 01:58:930 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1) - PLS DON"T LISTEN TO PPL, KEEP THIS!!!

I'm new in modding so I can't help with the other diff. But I mean it when I say I really like your Omoi trilogy. Really want it ranked. Take my star senpai o/

->I've edited, it seems it wasn't updated, sorry about that.

Hello, Thank you very much for your support and the time spent for this mod (as well as the star).
But.. Did you delete and redownload the map? It doesn't seem we have the same offset. I tried to check each of your point but I can't really see what you were talking about because of that

Anyways, it's always really cool to see that people still support me on this "Omoi trilogy" ^^
I didn't give up on this yet and got the confirmation yesterday that the staff didn't neither!