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TAM - Megumeru

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Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Monstrata
[Recheck]

  1. 00:08:769 (4,1,2,3,1) - This spacing is still way too big. Problem here is, your 1/4 jumps like from 00:09:412 (1,2) - look just the same as the spacing from 00:08:769 (4,1) - and 00:10:269 (3,1) - Even though they are 1/2 gaps. This is going to cause readability issues. There is no indication as to what spacing is 1/4 and what spacing is 1/2.
  2. 00:43:055 (1,2) - Ctrl+G this rhythm? Nothing really on 00:43:483 -
  3. 00:44:448 - There's a triplet here tho, and 00:44:876 - . But meh i guess you don't want to map them?
  4. 02:17:126 (6,7,1) - When i pointed out the spacing, i meant, why did you use like 1.40 here and then 02:18:626 (6,7,8) - 2.00 here :S.
  5. 02:53:126 - It doesn't sound like you're only mapping the violin... Like, parts like 02:50:555 (2,3,4) - and 02:54:626 (3) - Clearly aren't violin-based. You can afford to map more than just one sound too, instead of just focusing on one instrument. You'll make people click early because you've stacked 02:52:912 (4) - Ontop of a slider so players don't have any spacing reference to think "okay this is spaced really far, its probably 1/1" also, there is clearly a note here, which can make players click early thinking its that note.
  6. 03:06:198 (3,4,5,6,7) - Did you change this? :S. This section is really quiet. Tbh a stream shape like this just doesn't fit for me because they are actually very difficult to play because of the amount of motion needed to play them (full circle) instead of just a line, or a simple curve. I really don't think this works
  7. 03:15:412 - You don't get to emphasize this part or even make it clickable.
  8. 01:04:644 - Might want to silence the slider-ends of these sliders since you've extended them even past the blue tick into 1/8... I think leaving them on blue ticks is safer honestly
  9. About your style:
  10. 01:42:841 (7,8,1) - The problem with your consistent spacing style is that places like this, where there is clearly more emphasis onto slider 1 aren't mapped to a larger jump or something so as to create emphasis on that note. Because every note is given the same spacing here, nothing is emphasized. 01:42:841 (7) - Like this note for example, is very soft, almost silent, yet it has the same spacing as 01:43:269 (1) - .
  11. 01:50:555 (3,4,5) - Stuff like this is good, because you use different DS to create more emphasis onto 5.


I want to hear your thoughts on the point I made about your spacing choice before I consider pushing this forward xPPP. Tbh, the more I look at this map the more I think quality could be improved xPPP. Sorry for giving you this false hope, i feel bad now xP, but our styles as you see, are very different lol. Anyways, let me know what you think.
Neil Watts
osu! Alumni
1,843 posts
Joined July 2013
Topic Starter
Neil Watts

monstrata wrote:

[Recheck]

  1. 00:08:769 (4,1,2,3,1) - This spacing is still way too big. Problem here is, your 1/4 jumps like from 00:09:412 (1,2) - look just the same as the spacing from 00:08:769 (4,1) - and 00:10:269 (3,1) - Even though they are 1/2 gaps. This is going to cause readability issues. There is no indication as to what spacing is 1/4 and what spacing is 1/2. Ok, let's ruin my mapping... Here's a new pattern, it should fit now... Very ugly though :(
  2. 00:43:055 (1,2) - Ctrl+G this rhythm? Nothing really on 00:43:483 - what, ctrl+g? and the flow? :(
  3. 00:44:448 - There's a triplet here tho, and 00:44:876 - . But meh i guess you don't want to map them? Just noticed when listening at 25%... well...I prefer my current pattern, but i'll remap this
  4. 02:17:126 (6,7,1) - When i pointed out the spacing, i meant, why did you use like 1.40 here and then 02:18:626 (6,7,8) - 2.00 here :S. I feel like the first pattern sounds less stronger than the second, and also for consistency (with 02:02:983 (4,1) - and 02:04:912 (6,7,8) - )
  5. 02:53:126 - It doesn't sound like you're only mapping the violin... Like, parts like 02:50:555 (2,3,4) - and 02:54:626 (3) - Clearly aren't violin-based. You can afford to map more than just one sound too, instead of just focusing on one instrument. You'll make people click early because you've stacked 02:52:912 (4) - Ontop of a slider so players don't have any spacing reference to think "okay this is spaced really far, its probably 1/1" also, there is clearly a note here, which can make players click early thinking its that note. Indeed, this is not full violin. Basically, I was trying to map only violin because it's inconsistent -> rich to map because the rhythm of the violin isn't the same during all the part ; but the part wasn't difficult enough with only the violin mapped, and it felt empty. So I decided to map a bit of the background sound, which is consistent (just a basic 1/2 sound which is the same during all the part and isn't interesting to map) to fill the blank parts. But I absolutely wanna leave a bit of inconsistency in these patterns, else it will sound boring and uninteresting, because there will be no rhythm variation. Moreover, if you add just a circle stacked here 02:53:126 - and here 02:56:555 - , it will sound overmapped and misplaced... I'll probably have to remap all the part to make a change I won't like... So I'm not gonna change this pattern. >:(
  6. 03:06:198 (3,4,5,6,7) - Did you change this? :S. This section is really quiet. Tbh a stream shape like this just doesn't fit for me because they are actually very difficult to play because of the amount of motion needed to play them (full circle) instead of just a line, or a simple curve. I really don't think this works I already reduced the distances of 0.20x. I can't reduce it anymore. I already used courbs in the other patterns, so this is the minimum of originality the Ranking Criteria should allow me. However if you find another original pattern I like which I didn't already used, I'm ready to use it instead of this pattern. But I think this pattern shouldn't be a problem for the players, except the farmers/"2015 only" players, maybe.
  7. 03:15:412 - You don't get to emphasize this part or even make it clickable. I don't understand what you're meaning... This pattern is perfectly playable imo, a 1/3 won't kill the players....
  8. 01:04:644 - Might want to silence the slider-ends of these sliders since you've extended them even past the blue tick into 1/8... I think leaving them on blue ticks is safer honestly won't be an issue for players imo
  9. About your style:
  10. 01:42:841 (7,8,1) - The problem with your consistent spacing style is that places like this, where there is clearly more emphasis onto slider 1 aren't mapped to a larger jump or something so as to create emphasis on that note. Because every note is given the same spacing here, nothing is emphasized. 01:42:841 (7) - Like this note for example, is very soft, almost silent, yet it has the same spacing as 01:43:269 (1) - . I agree on this. Gonna reduce the distances between (6) and (7) and increase between (7) and (8).
  11. 01:50:555 (3,4,5) - Stuff like this is good, because you use different DS to create more emphasis onto 5. ok :3


I want to hear your thoughts on the point I made about your spacing choice before I consider pushing this forward xPPP. Tbh, the more I look at this map the more I think quality could be improved xPPP. Sorry for giving you this false hope, i feel bad now xP, but our styles as you see, are very different lol. Anyways, let me know what you think.
Thanks for the recheck. :)

Well... I have more or less the feeling that my mapping style is disappearing a bit of my map...
Do you think my map can be ranked without being just "ranking material" ? I didn't made my map ESPECIALLY for ranking, so yes, I'm using my own patterns, it's basically not always flat and 100% safe, even if I think I'm not using very risky patterns...
I know that I had to fix a lot of patterns in order to make it ranked, but should my mapping style be 100% flat and uninspiring to be ranked?
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Monstrata
I don't think you're losing your mapping style. I think your style is still growing. People's mapping styles change even after they've had multiple ranked maps. As you mod more and understand more approaches to mapping, your style also changes even if only a little. At the same time though, I don't want to force you to change your current style, no one should do that. Only you should decide when to change your style and approach to mapping.

If you'd like to make further changes, please let me know so I can recheck. As of right now, after going through your map, I find nothing objectively unrankable, so I will push this forward.
Neil Watts
osu! Alumni
1,843 posts
Joined July 2013
Topic Starter
Neil Watts

monstrata wrote:

I don't think you're losing your mapping style. I think your style is still growing. People's mapping styles change even after they've had multiple ranked maps. As you mod more and understand more approaches to mapping, your style also changes even if only a little. At the same time though, I don't want to force you to change your current style, no one should do that. Only you should decide when to change your style and approach to mapping.

If you'd like to make further changes, please let me know so I can recheck. As of right now, after going through your map, I find nothing objectively unrankable, so I will push this forward.
Thank you very much!! :D

My mapping style is indeed different from what it was on my other ranked maps... I hope it's good enough for the QAT now :P
Cherry Blossom
3,185 posts
Joined October 2011
Cherry Blossom
00:26:341 -
00:27:198 - and many more...

Ranking Criteria wrote:

Hitsounds from notes and sliders must be audible. These provide feedback for the player, and having them silent in a rhythm game doesn't make much sense. If you don't like the default sounds, then find replacements rather than silencing notes. You can use hitsounds from the Custom Hitsound Library or easily find others online. Lowering the volume of a few notes to provide a dampened effect is usually fine, but complete silence is always unacceptable. The end of a spinner (or even the entire spinner) the sliding sound of a slider, and the end of a slider can be silent, but only do it if it makes sense. Finally, you cannot silence both slider ticks and slider slides together.
jonathanlfj
Elite Mapper
2,568 posts
Joined February 2010
jonathanlfj
[General]
what CB said is true, you are safer raising the tick volumes to 20%, this way they are still audible but does not destroy the game play experience
I think combo 3 could use a little more greenish colour, given that the majority of the BG is in green

your first red line and green line lands on the same place but have different volume settings, you need to make them the same

[Kotomi]
00:17:448 - a circle here to catch the synth would be nice
00:25:698 (3,4) - this angle plays really weird, you might want to rotate the slider counterclockwise a bit
01:03:841 (1) - this slider should end at 01:04:591, you can move the repeat sliders a bit furthur to fix the spacing
01:45:412 (5) - NC
02:25:483 (5) - move this up a bit to form a smoother arc with 02:25:698 (6,1)
02:32:983 (1) - same as 01:03:841 (1)
03:19:269 (3) - NC
03:37:912 (1,2,3,4,5) - give it a little more spacing to rid the overlaps
03:42:948 (11,1) - bring these a little closer, i read this as 1/2 and let go of 11 too early
04:22:698 (1) - the sudden slow down in sv is a bit unexpected, would be great if you can bump it to 1.0x to have a smoother transition

yeah let me know afterwards
Neil Watts
osu! Alumni
1,843 posts
Joined July 2013
Topic Starter
Neil Watts

Cherry Blossom wrote:

00:26:341 -
00:27:198 - and many more...
monstrata told me it isn't a problem :(
well, reverted. every slider tick is now 20% volume (instead of 5%).

jonathanlfj wrote:

[General]
what CB said is true, you are safer raising the tick volumes to 20%, this way they are still audible but does not destroy the game play experience done!
I think combo 3 could use a little more greenish colour, given that the majority of the BG is in green Fully remade the combo colors.

your first red line and green line lands on the same place but have different volume settings, you need to make them the same
Alright, placed a new green timing point on the spinner before the red timing point
[Kotomi]
00:17:448 - a circle here to catch the synth would be nice A triplet already? Too early in a calm song and a bit overmapped imo
00:25:698 (3,4) - this angle plays really weird, you might want to rotate the slider counterclockwise a bit ok, just reversed the last ctrl+g
01:03:841 (1) - this slider should end at 01:04:591, you can move the repeat sliders a bit furthur to fix the spacing ok!
01:45:412 (5) - NC ok
02:25:483 (5) - move this up a bit to form a smoother arc with 02:25:698 (6,1) fine
02:32:983 (1) - same as 01:03:841 (1) yep
03:19:269 (3) - NC okay
03:37:912 (1,2,3,4,5) - give it a little more spacing to rid the overlaps added more spacing. Can't increase too much though.
03:42:948 (11,1) - bring these a little closer, i read this as 1/2 and let go of 11 too early alright
04:22:698 (1) - the sudden slow down in sv is a bit unexpected, would be great if you can bump it to 1.0x to have a smoother transition The player should know the rhythm after two kiais, the sv is also a bit superior than in the previous kiais, no changes

yeah let me know afterwards
Thank you very much! It's been a long time I accepted so much items in a mod...
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Monstrata
Rebubbling.

Sorry it took so long xPP.
jonathanlfj
Elite Mapper
2,568 posts
Joined February 2010
jonathanlfj
alright #2
Neil Watts
osu! Alumni
1,843 posts
Joined July 2013
Topic Starter
Neil Watts
Thank you very much :)
Pereira006
osu! Alumni
2,801 posts
Joined October 2010
Pereira006
we did irc is was fix some whistle only last kiai

this mapset look good and funny play

(too many qualified maps over the last 24 hours! (6 max)) waiting .... lol

Will edit when this map get qualify
Neil Watts
osu! Alumni
1,843 posts
Joined July 2013
Topic Starter
Neil Watts
Thank you Pereira o/

(here's the IRC log of our modding session, if needed)

SPOILER
[15:40] <Neil_Watts> please tell me if you fine anything bothering owo7
[15:44] <Pereira006> they really perfect, hitsound,m everthing look good
[15:44] <Pereira006> and I wonder players can catch jump 1/8
[15:45] <Neil_Watts> oh well
[15:46] <Pereira006> only this part, 03:28:698 (1,2,3,4) -
[15:46] <Neil_Watts> 1/8 can be a bit hard, especially on last kiai, but they're still playable imo - and I can't really map 1/4 on this part D:
[15:46] <Pereira006> made me worry, I'm not pro player but can't catch this... other i can...
[15:47] <Pereira006> hmm ok then lol
[15:47] <Pereira006> 03:29:983 (2) - you need whistle in begin ?
[15:47] <Pereira006> other parts doesn't have but the song are "loop"
[15:48] <Pereira006> like in 03:36:841 (2) - the music is repetive but doesn't have whistle orz
[15:48] <Neil_Watts> 03:28:966 - I already reduced a lot the spacing in this part, knowing  that it should be the hardest part for the song, I can't reduce it much more :/
[15:48] <Pereira006> only last kiai, i can see there missing whistle
[15:49] <Neil_Watts> the whistle isn't a tick
[15:49] <Neil_Watts> it's quite irregular, and in background
[15:50] <Neil_Watts> oh, indeed!
[15:50] <Pereira006> i don't know, believe or not, i don't see background....
[15:50] <Pereira006> i mean the music,
[15:50] <Pereira006> ho you know now lol
[15:51] <Neil_Watts> oh wait, I'm not sure there is a whistle in 03:36:841 (2) - 
[15:51] <Neil_Watts> nope there isn't
[15:51] <Pereira006> if you listen clouser this music, that 03:36:412 is repetive in 03:29:555
[15:52] <Neil_Watts> so there should not be a whistle on 3:29 I suppose
[15:52] <Neil_Watts> gonna try to hear
[15:52] <Pereira006> lol, you choice, remove whistle 03:29:983 (2) - or add whistle 03:26
[15:52] <Neil_Watts> yup
[15:52] <Pereira006> i just wanna make sure you style hitsounds is consistency
[15:53] <Pereira006> I'm not destroying...
[15:53] <Neil_Watts> no, no, I know, there is an inconsistency here
[15:53] <Neil_Watts> This whistle is just hard to hear lol
[15:53] <Neil_Watts> but yep, there isn't a whistle here 03:29:983 (2) -
[15:53] <Neil_Watts> gonna remove it
[15:53] <Pereira006> i can hear LOL
[15:53] <Neil_Watts> you can hear it ? D:
[15:53] <Pereira006> yup
[15:53] <Neil_Watts> ORZ
[15:54] <Neil_Watts> compare 03:29:983 (2) - and 03:30:841 (6) - 
[15:54] <Pereira006> if you wanna consistency
[15:54] <Pereira006> i will put only important
[15:54] <Pereira006> 03:41:983 (2) - remove whistle
[15:55] <Pereira006> yea, I like said, is you choice... put whistle or remove
[15:55] <Pereira006> every tick white short, is repetive, just saying
[15:55] <Neil_Watts> or is there really a whistle there
[15:55] <Pereira006> let me know if you fix that
[15:55] <Neil_Watts> but the song is just inconsistent itself LOL
[15:55] <Pereira006> lol
[15:55] <Pereira006> better blame autor
[15:55] <Pereira006> *artist
[15:56] <Neil_Watts> TAM is a nice violinist :(
[15:56] <Pereira006> hitsound won't affect DQ
[15:56] <Pereira006> is just when i play
[15:56] <Pereira006> Hear whistle then some missing i was like
[15:56] <Pereira006> "what the" lol
[15:57] <Neil_Watts> I didn't put whistles everywhere else
[15:57] <Neil_Watts> on the same rhythm in the kiai
[15:57] <Neil_Watts> so I guess I only heard a whistle there
[15:57] <Neil_Watts> well, gonna remove it anyway, for consistency :p
[15:58] <Neil_Watts> too much instruments to know anyway lol
[15:58] <Pereira006> lol, if me, i don't care, put aldready consistency
[15:58] <Pereira006> so then BN instant bubbe or qualify KLOL
[15:59] <Pereira006> because the easy BN give you bubble or qualify only you have to do is consistency orz
[15:59] <Neil_Watts> well, no one noticed that whistle problem before you :P
[16:00] <Neil_Watts> updated, thanks!
[16:00] <Pereira006> really ? whistle is really high here... i still can hear
[16:00] <Pereira006> well maybe jsut me
[16:00] <Neil_Watts> there is still no whistle on the other ones D:
[16:02] <Neil_Watts> I compared 03:29:983 - and 03:30:841 - after removing all elements in this part
[16:02] <Neil_Watts> the second is a whistle, the first isn't, I think
[16:04] <Pereira006> alright, is fine, I can't find more issues and some
[16:05] <Pereira006> they really perfect for me
[16:05] <Pereira006> well, ready ?
[16:05] <Neil_Watts> uhhh, yep, I think everything should be fine now :P
Pereira006
osu! Alumni
2,801 posts
Joined October 2010
Pereira006
Approve

Congtraz :D
Raiden
osu! Alumni
2,419 posts
Joined January 2013
Raiden
Uhmm... not to be a party popper or anything but






Might be a bug, idk.
Pereira006
osu! Alumni
2,801 posts
Joined October 2010
Pereira006

Raiden wrote:

Uhmm... not to be a party popper or anything but






Might be a bug, idk.

Is bug because the Spinner, the real lenght is 5:06 and mp3 have 5:13.
Neil Watts
osu! Alumni
1,843 posts
Joined July 2013
Topic Starter
Neil Watts

Pereira006 wrote:

Approve

Congtraz :D
Thank you very much :D/

Raiden wrote:

Uhmm... not to be a party popper or anything but






Might be a bug, idk.
Yep, website-side bug. The ingame draining time is different :)
Okoratu
Nomination Assessment Team / Elite Nominator
4,912 posts
Joined May 2012
Okoratu
Gz Neil :D
Nozhomi
Global Moderator
4,568 posts
Joined May 2013
Nozhomi
It's happening !
Secretpipe
3,316 posts
Joined December 2012
Secretpipe

Nozhomi wrote:

It happened
fix'd
Gamu
Elite Mapper
2,606 posts
Joined December 2010
Gamu
Hello!

We have found some potential issues that we feel are important enough to address before continuing:

General

Wrong Source:

  • "クラナド" is way of reading, so it should not be added as source. Add to tags instead.
    According to the following images and site, the source must be CLANNAD
  1. Image: http://puu.sh/jQnUi/c7af7e8853.png
  2. Image: http://puu.sh/jQnV3/e4b5635d8f.png
  3. Official site: http://www.tbs.co.jp/clannad/clannad1/06special/special.html
Wrong Artist:

  • "たむ" is way of reading, and he have been using "TAM".
    According to the following images and site, the artist must be TAM if you want to use his name.
    Otherwise, I would like to recommend that you use the doujin circle name (TAMUSIC).
  1. Image: http://puu.sh/jRjzb/ce4ba9cce9.png
  2. Image: http://puu.sh/jRjB6/a4cf5f9da0.png
  3. Official site: http://tamusic.jp/

If you disagree with these suggestions, please reply to this thread justifying why so we can discuss alternatives.

Otherwise, please reply to this thread when these issues are resolved.

Thanks for working with us towards higher quality beatmaps, we hope to see your beatmap ranked soon!

###B
Neil Watts
osu! Alumni
1,843 posts
Joined July 2013
Topic Starter
Neil Watts

Gamu wrote:

Hello!

We have found some potential issues that we feel are important enough to address before continuing:

General

Wrong Source:

  • "クラナド" is way of reading, so it should not be added as source. Add to tags instead.
    According to the following images and site, the source must be CLANNAD
  1. Image: http://puu.sh/jQnUi/c7af7e8853.png
  2. Image: http://puu.sh/jQnV3/e4b5635d8f.png
  3. Official site: http://www.tbs.co.jp/clannad/clannad1/06special/special.html
Wrong Artist:

  • "たむ" is way of reading, and he have been using "TAM".
    According to the following images and site, the artist must be TAM if you want to use his name.
    Otherwise, I would like to recommend that you use the doujin circle name (TAMUSIC).
  1. Image: http://puu.sh/jRjzb/ce4ba9cce9.png
  2. Image: http://puu.sh/jRjB6/a4cf5f9da0.png
  3. Official site: http://tamusic.jp/

If you disagree with these suggestions, please reply to this thread justifying why so we can discuss alternatives.

Otherwise, please reply to this thread when these issues are resolved.

Thanks for working with us towards higher quality beatmaps, we hope to see your beatmap ranked soon!

###B
OH WELL
For the first time I'm serarching the most exact possible sources to avoid DQ, I'm getting DQ'ed for "too much metadata"... ORZ

For the artist's japanese name, I used the official website (http://tamusic.jp/about/tam/)
For the source, I basically used Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clannad_% ... l_novel%29)...

The DQ reason is a bit stupid imo, since all the japanese names in the metadata are used on official websites, but well, alright, gonna change this, debating on metadata would be useless anyway :')
And I'm not japanese to know which terms are the most used by the artists themselves.

Alright, here's the list of changes:
  1. "TAM" set as Artist
  2. "Romanised Artist" field deleted
  3. "CLANNAD" set as Source
  4. "clannad" deleted from the tags, "たむ" (tamu) and "クラナド" (kuranado) added
Map updated!
Sorry monstrata, jonathan and Pereira, I'm noob orz
Pereira006
osu! Alumni
2,801 posts
Joined October 2010
Pereira006
It's ok Neil, call me when this get bubble
Gamu
Elite Mapper
2,606 posts
Joined December 2010
Gamu
If you are worried about the metadata or would like me to check, feel free to call me anytime via the PM in order to avoid such metadata issue :3
Neil Watts
osu! Alumni
1,843 posts
Joined July 2013
Topic Starter
Neil Watts

Pereira006 wrote:

It's ok Neil, call me when this get bubble
Alright, thanks!

Gamu wrote:

If you are worried about the metadata or would like me to check, feel free to call me anytime via the PM in order to avoid such metadata issue :3
Thank you Gamu, I will think about it the next time :)
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Monstrata
We doublechecked the metadata + doublechecked the title + romanized title just in case.

We checked using this site: http://tam3.name/TAM3-0028.html

The first track is Megumeru.

#1
shARPII
osu! Alumni
926 posts
Joined April 2011
shARPII
rank or riot please :D
Secretpipe
3,316 posts
Joined December 2012
Secretpipe
atoz
Neil Watts
osu! Alumni
1,843 posts
Joined July 2013
Topic Starter
Neil Watts
Gonna PM jonathanlfj about it.
I'm a bit busy in this period of the year, so it may take some time before the rank.
Jonathan also looks busy, as he said in his userpage.
lit120
3,251 posts
Joined August 2013
lit120
welp, i did an IRC mod with Neil about hitsounds only, but sadly, it's not complete yet D:

IRC MOD
00:43 -Hakurei-: hi watts
00:43 -Hakurei-: i heard that all chat moderators and support team have changed into GMT
00:43 -Hakurei-: well played
01:03 Neil Watts: hi
01:03 Neil Watts: yep :D
01:03 -Hakurei-: yep
01:03 -Hakurei-: late for 20 minutes to reply
01:04 Neil Watts: sorry, I was outside :P
01:04 -Hakurei-: pfftt
01:04 -Hakurei-: btw
01:04 *-Hakurei- is listening to [http://osu.ppy.sh/b/712691 TAM - Megumeru]
01:04 -Hakurei-: i found out that this one is DQ
01:05 Neil Watts: yeah... not for a long time though (I hope)
01:05 -Hakurei-: yeah
01:05 Neil Watts: some metadata issues
01:05 -Hakurei-: ask KwaN or other QATs for that
01:05 *-Hakurei- is editing [http://osu.ppy.sh/b/712691 TAM - Megumeru [Kotomi]]
01:05 -Hakurei-: gonna check hitsounds for in case =w=
01:06 Neil Watts: oh, thanks ^^"
01:06 Neil Watts: well, this time I really think everything is ok
01:06 -Hakurei-: nope
01:06 -Hakurei-: not really
01:06 Neil Watts: (hurr, that's what every mapper thinks before the dq lol)
01:06 -Hakurei-: i found something
01:06 Neil Watts: oh ? :O
01:07 Neil Watts: Is it about hitsounding ?
01:07 -Hakurei-: yes
01:07 -Hakurei-: i told you
01:07 -Hakurei-: "gonna check hitsounds for in case =w="
01:07 Neil Watts: uguu
01:07 -Hakurei-: can you do a fix now?
01:07 -Hakurei-: if not, i'll do a mod in thread
01:08 Neil Watts: yeah, I can go ingame if needed
01:08 -Hakurei-: let's go then
01:08 -Hakurei-: 00:37:698 (7) - remove clap
01:08 Neil Watts: what D:
01:09 Neil Watts: I can hear it
01:09 Neil Watts: same as (6)
01:09 Neil Watts: oh wait
01:09 -Hakurei-: nope
01:09 Neil Watts: no, it's weaker indeed
01:09 -Hakurei-: 00:37:483 (6,8) - only this one is the same :p
01:09 -Hakurei-: not the (7)
01:10 Neil Watts: but it fits quite well with (7) :(
01:10 -Hakurei-: 00:41:126 (6) - here too
01:10 -Hakurei-: nope, not for me
01:10 -Hakurei-: --> just want to make the hitsound correct
01:11 -Hakurei-: 00:44:126 (5) - here, you need finish
01:12 Neil Watts: oh, yep, indeed
01:12 Neil Watts: gonna lessen the hitsounding volume though
01:12 -Hakurei-: ayy, it'll do
01:12 Neil Watts: because the finish is weaker here
01:13 -Hakurei-: ok
01:14 Neil Watts: hmmmrr sounds inconsistent
01:14 -Hakurei-: welp, you may deny that
01:15 Neil Watts: gonna add the finish because there's really something here
01:15 Neil Watts: but can't reduce the volume, placing a timing point to change the volume would be inconsistent here :[
01:16 -Hakurei-: lol ok
01:16 -Hakurei-: this is weird
01:17 Neil Watts: not gonna change my previous hitsounding pattern though, with "o-o-ooo" claps
01:17 Neil Watts: 'cause I like them =w=
01:17 -Hakurei-: 00:50:876 (3) - remove clap
01:17 -Hakurei-: since on some kiai parts like that, you didn't even add clap
01:18 Neil Watts: oh, I remember I added it after a mod
01:18 Neil Watts: these two claps?
01:18 Neil Watts: or just the (3) ?
01:18 -Hakurei-: (3)
01:18 -Hakurei-: just (3)
01:18 Neil Watts: alright, fixed!
01:19 -Hakurei-: 02:33:412 - well, i would do something on this note if i were you
01:19 Neil Watts: 01:03:841 (1) - like here?
01:19 -Hakurei-: correct
01:19 -Hakurei-: wait
01:19 Neil Watts: Well, I've done something on the last kiai
01:19 -Hakurei-: nvm
01:20 Neil Watts: but not on the two firsts
01:20 -Hakurei-: that's just me lol
01:20 -Hakurei-: didn't even realize
01:20 -Hakurei-: 02:33:841 (2) - 3rd part clap
01:21 -Hakurei-: i think i want to complain something about your song choice on this map
01:22 -Hakurei-: it makes me sleepy ya know D:
01:22 Neil Watts: you don't like violin ? :(
01:22 -Hakurei-: well i do
01:22 Neil Watts: gonna fix the (2) everywhere, thx
01:22 -Hakurei-: 03:14:983 (1,2,3) - for me...
01:23 -Hakurei-: i think you need additions into "Drum"
01:23 -Hakurei-: ow nvm
01:23 -Hakurei-: didn't realize the hitsound stuff
01:24 Neil Watts: that drum hitsound set idea was interesting
01:24 -Hakurei-: 03:29:126 (3) - first part, clap
01:24 Neil Watts: but I think I prefer my soft custom hitsounds
01:25 -Hakurei-: 03:29:341 (4) - first part, clap (soft)
01:25 Neil Watts: wow, my hitsounding sucks so much lmao
01:25 -Hakurei-: lmao
01:25 -Hakurei-: you should recheck everything on hitsound stuff kawkwkw
01:25 Neil Watts: hmmm not gonna add the last one, sounds like inconsistent on a drum part
01:26 -Hakurei-: i see...
01:26 Neil Watts: I already rechecked some times but idk, I just didn't noticed D:
01:26 -Hakurei-: 03:30:841 (6) - clever idea by adding whistle + clap =w=)b
01:26 Neil Watts: :D
01:27 -Hakurei-: 03:36:091 (7,9) - umm, did you set this from violin part?
01:27 Neil Watts: yep
01:27 -Hakurei-: ok
01:28 Neil Watts: like here 03:39:841 (1,2,3,4,5) -
01:29 -Hakurei-: 03:42:948 (11) - 3rd part, whistle
01:30 Neil Watts: omg how can you hear that
01:31 Neil Watts: do you have bionic ears ? oO"
01:31 -Hakurei-: wtf hell no
01:31 Neil Watts: ok i'm just deaf :')
01:31 -Hakurei-: i can tell that there is 1 pause part there
01:31 -Hakurei-: so, i can tell that the 4th part doesn't need whistle there
01:32 -Hakurei-: 03:56:769 (11,12) - lel, wrong hitsound
01:32 -Hakurei-: (11) should be whistle, not (12)
01:33 Neil Watts: indeed!
01:33 -Hakurei-: 04:10:483 (12,13) - same thing from what i said before
01:34 -Hakurei-: again lmao
01:34 -Hakurei-: 04:13:698 (6) - remove whistle at tail
01:37 -Hakurei-: 04:16:698 (6,7,8,9) - ohh boy. here i go for the hitsound check
01:38 Neil Watts: sorry, my internet crashed
01:38 Neil Watts: and I have to leave D:
01:38 -Hakurei-: wtf
01:38 Neil Watts: please write me a mod
01:38 Neil Watts: thank you for what you've pointed out :P
01:39 -Hakurei-: aye ok

and here's the additional mod in case whether it was not written on your view since your internet was crashed ._.

[Additional Mod]
  1. 00:37:698 (7,9) - remove clap
  2. 03:56:769 (11,12) - lel, wrong hitsound. (11) should be whistle, not (12)
  3. 04:10:483 (12,13) - same thing from what i said before
  4. 04:13:698 (6) - remove whistle at tail
  5. 04:16:912 (7) - first part, whistle
  6. 04:20:769 (7) - remove whistle
  7. 04:24:212 - i'd add a note here (finish) for better and epic if i were you
  8. 04:24:412 (1) - clap
  9. 04:33:412 (1,2) - what a quite sound from the tail XD
  10. 00:31:269 (1) - umm, finish here (with a different custom hitsound)
  11. 00:38:126 (1) - ^
check the hitsounds again, for in case :p. GL!
Neil Watts
osu! Alumni
1,843 posts
Joined July 2013
Topic Starter
Neil Watts
@Hakurei: Sorry for the sudden interruption of our ingame discussion, I had some IRL unexpected problems.
Thanks for the hitsounding mod, gonna check that tomorrow asap before jonathan's #2 (if he wants to do it).


EDIT: Alright, here I go :

[Additional Mod]
  1. 00:37:698 (7,9) - remove clap Already said it during our IRC mod, I think I'm gonna keep this because it fits well imo. If I remove hitsounds here it will feel empty. :(
  2. 03:56:769 (11,12) - lel, wrong hitsound. (11) should be whistle, not (12) alright, fixed
  3. 04:10:483 (12,13) - same thing from what i said before ^
  4. 04:13:698 (6) - remove whistle at tail yep
  5. 04:16:912 (7) - first part, whistle alright
  6. 04:20:769 (7) - remove whistle ^
  7. 04:24:212 - i'd add a note here (finish) for better and epic if i were you hmmm, it doesn't sound like following the rhythm imo
  8. 04:24:412 (1) - clap oh, nice idea
  9. 04:33:412 (1,2) - what a quite sound from the tail XD Yeah, I muted the slider end for these two sliders to fit with the song.
  10. 00:31:269 (1) - umm, finish here (with a different custom hitsound) I don't know which custom hitsound I may use, and honestly I think adding too much finish at the beginning of this song may ruin the calm of the map. Also I don't think the finish in the song here is important enough to be mapped. Gonna stay with my soft hitsounds and use finishes wisely, except on kiai where I can add more sounds :D
  11. 00:38:126 (1) - ^
^

Even if the map was in a quite advanced state in modding, you improved it a lot. Thank you very much :)
jonathanlfj
Elite Mapper
2,568 posts
Joined February 2010
jonathanlfj
sht been too busy lately sorry

#2
Pereira006
osu! Alumni
2,801 posts
Joined October 2010
Pereira006
Je me appele est Pereira006 O/

Re-flame
Neil Watts
osu! Alumni
1,843 posts
Joined July 2013
Topic Starter
Neil Watts
Thank you very much, you two :D
Thanks monstrata too :3/

Gonna edit the map description this weekend!
Jenny
2,200 posts
Joined November 2010
Jenny
Preface: This is not a full mod since I understand you would not want to change the majority of a map that is already qualified in one way or the other - this doesn't mean the map is bad, this just means I will hold back on very workload intense improvements that I see possible, or will only address them briefly rather than going into detail on every occurance.

Please keep in mind that most examples pointed out in this post will be reoccuring phenomenons, so you should check your map for whether they occur more often, and fix them accordingly if you so see a reason in doing so. If you have trouble finding them or are unsure, you can usually PM me on IRC during weekdays, afternoon time GMT+1.


A brief overview of the issues I see with this map, and areas I see it being able to be improved upon rather easily (elaborations follow in their own boxes below):

  1. hitvolume tweaking (sliderends should have lower volume than their starts, as they do not represent strong player input, and this makes for a more clear alignment of playing and hitsounding rhythm, helping to make the map more intuitive. a general rule of thumb is to reduce a sliderend's hitvolume by around a third to half the volume of the start, in order to fit it more into the background)
  2. passive hitsounding issues (elaborated upon further and in the linked thread, also relates to the previous point)
  3. pressure delivery and beat intensity (strong beats should usually be more spaced-out, rather than stacked on top, even if they are just hitsounds or it is the same sound repeating twice - sharp angles and turns can also help with emphasis on these. relates to beat patterning and passive hitsounding)
  4. beat patterning (the way you break up beats into patterns, i.e. if you'd be mapping as a triangle what in the song is two pairs of two, then you'd be going against the beat patterning and pairmotion that is given in the song - basically, try to structure your map as the song does it)

Rhythm Conflicts in Map vs Song



There's a few examples of what I call passive hitsounds in this map, so I'll address a few examples - if you are unsure about what this means, please try to understand from the description below or read up here; alternatively, you can just ask me on IRC, that works too.


Here's a few examples of these:

00:58:055 (7,8) - I don't exactly like using kicksliders like this, since what you are doing is you are turning 3 1/4 notes, of which the strongest one in the song is the last on each of them, into two 1/2 hold notes; that means that only the first beat is pressured, and that doesn't make any sense here since the strongest beat of the slider is the one that is at the end

00:58:912 (1) - similar example, this slider starts on a weak note (and a red tick) and ends on a 2/1 clap, which is counterintuitive and makes map and song rhythm clash unneccessarily

01:01:055 (3) - similar, but not as severe - you basically just turn the 3*1/4 pattern into 2*1/2 here, which is not too nice, but it doesn't have too much an impact when compared to the other examples; what you need to be aware of is, however, that you are obscuring the clicking rhythm versus the actual song's rhythm, which can be tricky to handle properly and is generally discouraged

00:31:698 - this is pretty clear; you have a clap here, which is the strongest hitsounds of these sections, yet you have no active player input (read: click) associated with it at the time. just using circles would fit better with the claps (and the drums that they are based on)



Pressure Delivery and Beat Intensity



In some parts of the map, you use sub-optimal spacing and/or angling on important beats, hence not actually delivery a lot of gameplay impact on what is a strong beat and/or hitsound in the song, and therefore should also be more present as such in the map.


A few examples here:

00:18:626 (3,5) - this is a pretty good example of how to emphasize important and stand-out beats - you have a calm section that is mostly sliderbased, and then you switch into having a triple click with a back and forth-swaying jump. the important part is that on both claps, you have an actual player input (click) happening, which aligns the hitsounding rhythm with the gameplay much more pleasantly and fitting, though it'd be more optimal if 3 had a stronger angle going from 2, since that'd cause a more active turn and player motion towards the first clap of the pattern

00:20:769 (10,1) - here you have two strong beats, yet you stack them on top of each other - that's the opposite of what you did before, and what worked perfectly fine; in this scenario, you have two strong beats, and not only that, you also have the new combo starting on the second of them, so losing out on the minijump and snap onto 1 actually costs you a fair bit of emphasis here. optimally, I'd suggest a turn to the bottom left (around 429|240) in order to get both a snapjump and slightly increased spacing into the new combo. works well.



Beat Patterning



Pretty much explained in the introductory part - if the song's rhythm goes in a pattern of X, you should attempt to follow this rather than making up rhythm or pattern Y.


Examples:

00:30:841 (9) - due to the fact that there is a strong beat on the red tick of this slider (00:31:055), it makes more sense to split it up into two kicksliders, each either 4/8 or 3/8, if you want to be more lenient. having the click on the red tick will definitely help with rhythm emphasis and align playing and song rhythm a lot more here. you actually do this later on, so doing it here would only make sense for consistency's sake.

00:33:412 (4,5,6,7,8) - this doesn't work. firstly, there is a double piano sound here, covered by both the start and end of 4, which (as elaborated in the rhythm conflicts section) isn't too good for rhythm accuracy and emphasis. then, secondly, 5 is overmapped - there is nothing there to put a beat on. now, 5-6-7-8 don't make a whole lot of sense as a pattern to begin with, considering you reuse one triangle point, which you should rarely ever do (point being that if you do, you are probably mapping a pattern of four, for which a square would be much more fitting - if you want to stick to geometrical shapes anyway; back and forths are a valid option) - however, due to the fact of 5 being overmapped, this doesn't matter. 6-7-8-1 are fine like this, though.


Again, I don't dislike this map (it's actually really fun to DT, with EZ and without), but I'd like to see it in a more refined state to actually realize more of the song's (and map's) potential - if you have any questions or need further explanation or examples, feel free to PM me as stated in the start.

Also, on a personal note, I'd like to see the AR to be somewhere between 7.8-8.2 as I don't feel like ARs above that really fit the soft tone and pace of the song too much, and it makes DTing more pleasant to non-AR10 players.
Neil Watts
osu! Alumni
1,843 posts
Joined July 2013
Topic Starter
Neil Watts
Alright, thanks based Jenny. :)

I started to answer to every item you pointed out, but I noticed I was writing almost the same thing everytime, so I'm just gonna leave a global answer.

I suppose I'm far from the pro level in mapping you are, sometimes I think what you pointed out is useless or insignificant, sometimes I just don't understand what's wrong. ex. here:

hitvolume tweaking (sliderends should have lower volume than their starts, as they do not represent strong player input, and this makes for a more clear alignment of playing and hitsounding rhythm, helping to make the map more intuitive. a general rule of thumb is to reduce a sliderend's hitvolume by around a third to half the volume of the start, in order to fit it more into the background)
As you wrote, it looks like I would have to place a green timing point on every slider... Well, I suppose I'm still too noob in mapping to understand that, and it seems that 99% of the recently ranked maps are doing exactly the same (the remaining 1% is Cry Thunder, and maybe some mappers who got inspired by your mapping style).

Anyway, I know your mapping style is very advanced and professional and mine looks like shit compared to yours, but I'm sorry, I like how is currently my map and I don't feel like editing it again. What you pointed out looks like "how to change this map to make it looking like a Jenny map", and it's still interesting to read, but it doesn't improve (significantly enough, at least) the map in my point of view.

Sorry, and thanks anyway for the long mod :)
Nozhomi
Global Moderator
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Joined May 2013
Nozhomi
Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooon
Pereira006
osu! Alumni
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Joined October 2010
Pereira006
Is rank :D congtraz Neil Watts
Neil Watts
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Topic Starter
Neil Watts
Finally :D
Thanks everyone!
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