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DragonForce - Cry Thunder

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Kyubey
As we can see, high-skill players have played this map and don't find any issues, and even I don't have anything to say when i play it, it plays pretty well, so I think we can try to push this map forward.
Bubble #1.
Hinsvar
Did a really short IRC mod with Jenny; reduced the spacing of 03:26:849 (8,9,10).

pls no kudosu i did literally almost nothing

Have the second bubble!

(Yes, I can't play this map at all, but I believe I have the ability to judge the quality of the beatmap, and I am sure this is more than good enough to join the ranks of officially approved maps.)
BeatofIke
Map nominated for qualification.
Flame icon for marathon (5+ minute) map~
Shiro
dem speedranks
Sieg
congrats :3
Pahare
Damn :) map quality so high already qualified gj Jenny
Kite
gz
Nyukai
I thought I was going to check it but well gratz anyway xD
Dainesl
wow congrats Jenny, you got this Qualified really fast :o
OmegaR
As much as I'm opposed to speed ranking, this looks really high quality. Good luck Jenny!
Zare
Pfff.
CrimsonClaw
So fast qualify Jenny :0 I was on stream and saw your awesome mapping skillz :P

Congratulations <3
Trosk-
Summoning _ Kappa
MomoPrecil
yeahh finally.. I love you Jenny muuacch ;)
OzzyOzrock
WTF

WHY DID NO ONE TELL ME THAT THIS MAP WAS USING A RED VERSION OF THE 'DRAGONFORCE' BG ;____;

Now I need help on picking one for my Fury of the Storm taiko orz

...oh but gratz :D
Snepif
what the fuck such a fast rank...?

but its cool, congrats :)
HabiHolic
Gratz!
Yunomi
nice map
ithgyu
fun map, inc dq cos too hard for sake of being hard or some shit like that...
-N a n a k o-

Jenny wrote:

We may be back to old standards, boys :p
AR8 Please
Rickput
Kyubey
Have you at least checked these sliders in the gameplay?
Topic Starter
Jenny

Rickput wrote:

the song has a huge contrast on these (as for a majority of the kiaitime guitar solo since it's very distorted), which is why there are new combos put onto them (rather than the usual 4/1 combo length in most other parts of the song/map) - if I mapped them as one smooth motion, this contrast would not be part of the play since a new combo on it's own does not impact gameplay (except for the HP restoration)


Rickput wrote:

also where's the fine line drawn for the "slider outside of map" policy?
grid != playfield - until like 5 grids (size 3) out of the grid, you're usually entirely fine to the top/bottom (mind the top left, bottom center and top-very-right because of interface conflicts - not like those were unavoidable these days anyway)


Rickput wrote:

02:52:849 (3,1) - really close together compared to the directly former notes, consider increasing DS
making the spacing contrast like this makes it so that the player has to alter their playing style (large spacing + low angle -> small spacing + sharp angle, also into the opposite horizontal direction), which is why I went for that here: it gives a stronger snap and demands more focus - also, it provides additional contrast, both visually and gameplaywise, for the next combo. keeping large spacing for all of these notes without exception would make it feel much more repetitive
Rickput

Jenny wrote:

the song has a huge contrast on these (as for a majority of the kiaitime guitar solo since it's very distorted), which is why there are new combos put onto them (rather than the usual 4/1 combo length in most other parts of the song/map) - if I mapped them as one smooth motion, this contrast would not be part of the play since a new combo on it's own does not impact gameplay (except for the HP restoration)
I do understand the purpose of offesetting the combos, but the spacing and angle of the offsets are incredibly awkward for play, especially when there's not even a 1-note pause between the combos.

Jenny wrote:

grid != playfield - until like 5 grids (size 3) out of the grid, you're usually entirely fine to the top/bottom (mind the top left, bottom center and top-very-right because of interface conflicts - not like those were unavoidable these days anyway)
This actually clears some things up for me - i couldn't find a clear answer to this policy until now.

Jenny wrote:

making the spacing contrast like this makes it so that the player has to alter their playing style (large spacing + low angle -> small spacing + sharp angle, also into the opposite horizontal direction), which is why I went for that here: it gives a stronger snap and demands more focus - also, it provides additional contrast, both visually and gameplaywise, for the next combo. keeping large spacing for all of these notes without exception would make it feel much more repetitive
I still feel it'd be better with either a larger spacing, or have a couple of the other notes also have a small spacing so there's at least a pattern going. Having just one seemingly random note with a small spacing looks funny - this could go down to personal preference, but I doubt I'm the only one who thinks so. Would be better if the music had any cue to suddenly switch to the small spacing, but there's not much to call for that.

All in all I'm not calling 'DQ! DQ!', but just placing notes down for consideration.
Snepif
I don't understeand why you try to apply logic to this map when you just brainstormed 2015 patterns. I mean it's not bad but you can't really apply any logic to that, it's just hard because you wanted to make it 2015 style and that's it. No explanations, no logic, because there is none :3 so let's just stop
Topic Starter
Jenny
There is logic behind every single thing I did in this map and you're free to check out my stream VODs since I talk and elaborate a lot on what I am doing.
Snepif
What I mean is that it is obviously made for the hype of it. I mean, otherwise it wouldn't be 2015-stylish, wouldn't have those patterns, etc. There's a reason _index is mentioned in like 60% of the comments, and that is not because of the map's well-thought patterns, is it? I don't hate on it, always glad to see some DragonForce, what I mean is that we should all be honest to ourselves here.

To explain a bit more, what I mean is, it looks like in some parts of this map you just let yourself get carried by the hype of it. Nothing specifically wrong with it, but I don't think denying it is... right?
Saut
provoking is fun
Topic Starter
Jenny
I don't feel like I am mapping "for hype" or anything- if I wanted that, I'd make it easier so that he could actually HR it for 600+ pp rather than making that pretty much impossible :p

And again, every single pattern is well thought-out and many of them are very much so explained in the VODs; do I really look like a cheap phase mapper to you after all this time?
Dawns
Dear Diary, TIL That no matter how much you explain what you're doing to EVERYBODY; whether on stream or whether in IRC or by sheer communication; You're always mapping 'for hype'.
I also learned that Jenny 'brainstormed 2015 patterns' when she said on stream it was mapped to the music rather than to players of the game.
I also learned that 'We should just be honest' equates to 'just agree with me lol'
Snepif
I think you are taking my statements out of context just for the lolz.
I have an opinion, you have one, nobody died. Keep it cool :) and I said that I like the map already.
eh - - -
Been waiting some days , this map is lacking in order to get ranked.

Lets see what QAT has to say.
DoKito

Shian-aaa wrote:

Been waiting some days , this map is lacking in order to get ranked.

Lets see what QAT has to say.
2 more days. I doubt that it will get a DQ. Map is well done and I am sure the QATs already checked this one. There isn't really anything wrong with it, but i personally dislike the streams. They just feel odd to play. I cannot tell why, but I'm just not able to FC or even pass them sometimes. The movement feels a bit weird in my opinion.
Dawns

DoKito wrote:

2 more days. I doubt that it will get a DQ.
Watch this DQ.

I'll count down for you... Ready...

set....



go!
DQ reasons below :^)
Lust

Disqualification Notice



Hello!

Unfortunately, the Quality Assurance Team has decided to disqualify this beatmap. The following is a list of reasons and examples for the disqualification, so that you can understand our motive. We do not outline every issue in detail, so make sure to take the idea behind each reason and apply it to the entire beatmap. An issue might be found on more than the spots mentioned below. If you have questions, please reply to this post and we will do our best to clarify any misunderstandings for you.

  1. (M) Mapping Quality
    - Combo Color 1 and Combo Color 2 are too similar. We recommend that you change either one of those combo colors to something else.
    - Overdone jumps with little buildup leading to them, along with other gameplay issues. There are several instances where you have employed the usage of large jumps to accentuate a certain part of the music. While we agree that there is a build up, there simply isn't enough to carry the player through the pattern smoothly. We recommend either to have a more natural build up, or decrease the spacing between them. In addition, there are patterns that have awkward flow when coupled with the momentum of the previous patterns. Lastly, there are some hard to read patterns that should be addressed.
    • Examples:
    1. 00:15:157 (1,2,3,1,2,3,4) - The build up is lacking here (beforehand), isn't sufficient to carry the player through the pattern.
    2. 00:23:464 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - Same as mentioned above, but also coupled with the very sharp angles the pattern gives off.
    3. 00:23:926 (1,2,3,1,2,3,4) - The momentum from the previous pattern is killed with the short spacing of 00:24:388 (1,2,3,4) - . The cursor movement will be too jagged as a result.
    4. 00:31:772 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - Closely overlapping stream can be hard to read/hit.
    5. 00:33:157 (1,2,3) - A lot of momentum moving forward with the kicksliders, yet the play comes to a dead stop with 00:33:618 (4) - . Spacing 00:33:618 (4) - out more is desirable
    6. 03:04:080 (11,12) - Pretty big stream jump that comes out of nowhere, doesn't really fit into the previous stream play when coupled with the flow
    7. 03:10:926 (6,1) - The spacing between these two stream jumps is too big in comparison to similar patterns.
    8. 03:34:926 (6,1,6,1) - The separation between these streams are too overdone, should be lowered
    9. 03:52:849 (3,1) - The jump between these two objects is too high. The momentum that follows into 03:53:003 (1) - makes the slow slider very awkward and could cause a slider break.

If you happen to have concerns about this disqualification, you have the option to contest the decision with this form. Before doing so, please read the instructions carefully.
We sincerely apologize for the inconveniences and wish you further success towards requalification! The Beatmap Nominators will handle this mapset after the issues have been addressed.

Good luck and thank you for contributing to the osu! community with your efforts!

###M
Dawns
What did I say.
xxdeathx
I thought peppy implemented a Quality Assurance Team bot to perform DQ's so you wouldn't have to get attention for it

Topic Starter
Jenny
Adjusted all examples excluding 00:24:388 (1,2,3,4) -; everything else has been adjusted in a way and talked through/SS-shared on IRC.
Also, since a fair few players have suggested me to raise the OD a bit further, it's now up to 8.9 from 8.6 - decimals are nice.

IRC log
22:26 Lust: i'll just give you the examples we've listed in the dq post
22:26 Lust: and tell you what we think of them so you can fix them up before i post it
22:26 Jenny: mhm
22:26 Lust: alright first off, 00:13:772 (2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,4) -
22:27 Lust: we agreed that the build up + the music warrants the progression in spacing
22:27 Lust: but we think that 00:15:157 (1,2,3,1,2,3,4) - is a bit too extreme given the previous build up
22:27 Lust: (spacing wise)
22:27 Jenny: 00:15:157 (1,2,3) - I don't think that's too far
22:28 Jenny: 00:15:618 (1,2,3,4) - can reduce spacing on this by a bit though
22:28 Lust: i offered up the suggestion that either you could space 00:13:772 (2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2,3) - out more so that the build up is more natural
22:28 Lust: or nerf 00:15:618 (1,2,3,4) -
22:28 Lust: ye
22:28 Jenny: thing is, I do the spacing with followpoints now
22:28 Jenny: so like, it's more in steps rather than just "oh yeah drag this a bit closer by like 0.18"
22:28 Jenny: actually
22:29 Jenny: 00:15:926 (3) - if I space this more downwards, that makes the last combo feel a lot less big
22:29 Lust: perhaps, i think one of the issues we had was that the momentum wasnt enough from the build up to carry the cursor through to 00:15:926 (3,4) -
22:30 Lust: so if you could place it in an area that would require less extreme movement, that works too in a way
22:31 Jenny: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/3260037 ?
22:32 Lust: looks good
22:32 Jenny: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/3260040 as opposed to that
22:33 Lust: next example was 00:24:388 (1,2,3,4) -
22:33 Jenny: I don't think those are misleading :p
22:33 Lust: we found that 00:23:926 (1,2,3) - gave a lot of momentum moving forward, so the cursor stopping at 00:24:541 (2,3,4) - is a bit too much
22:34 Lust: 00:24:541 (2,3,4) - spacing this out further from 00:24:388 (1) - works
22:34 Lust: it was more like the contrast between the previous pattern and this was too extreme gameplay-wise
22:34 Jenny: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/3260050 ?
22:35 Jenny: I don't like having a followpoint there, is the thing
22:36 Lust: i suppose this could work, but i'm not entirely sure how to arrange it according to your liking
22:36 Jenny: I don't really see that one to be honest
22:36 Lust: thats something you could play with i suppose
22:36 Jenny: like, the issue with it
22:36 Jenny: noone ever had any problems with it while playing either, so I don't see a playability concern on it either
22:37 Lust: the QAT that evaluated this pattern and pointed it out is a pretty good player
22:37 Lust: not going to give any names away but
22:37 Lust: i'd trust his opinion
22:37 Jenny: and I kinda do trust my eyes and own abilities x:
22:37 Jenny: I've had a lot of people test this through since BNs were massively scared of it
22:40 Jenny: so yeah.. that one I don't see, no :/
22:40 Lust: its up to you if you want to change it, its still going to be listed as an example in the dq
22:40 Jenny: sure
22:41 Lust: anyway, next example was the overlapping found 00:31:772 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - here
22:42 Lust: the player could be disoriented upon the approach
22:42 Jenny: "could"?
22:42 Lust: ye
22:42 Jenny: ..are we worrying about "could be" in a 7* map? x:
22:43 Lust: im just telling you what we've found and agreed upon
22:43 Lust: its better to rule out any doubtful patterns while we can
22:43 Jenny: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/3260092 ?
22:43 Jenny: do you think that's better?
22:43 Jenny: since the overlap becoves relevant 2-3 notes later
22:44 Lust: yeah, looks better
22:44 Jenny: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/3260098
22:44 *Lust thumbs up
22:45 Jenny: fair enough
22:45 Lust: alrighty, next one is 00:33:157 (1,2,3,4) -
22:45 Lust: 00:33:157 (1,2,3) - gives off a lot of momentum, that comes to a dead stop at 00:33:618 (4) -
22:46 Lust: 00:33:618 (4) - spacing this out more would accent the music better + make the play more comfortable
22:46 Lust: errr "natural" as the person called it
22:48 Jenny: I was considering to increase it a bit actually
22:48 Jenny: one or two followpoints, what's better?
22:48 Jenny: I like 1, to be fair
22:49 Lust: 1 would be preferred yeah
22:49 Lust: but 2 would give more momentum into the spinner i suppose
22:49 Lust: but i guess that doesnt matter too much
22:49 Jenny: yeah, using one (3.01x)
22:50 Lust: sounds good
22:50 Lust: next example was 03:04:080 (11,12) -
22:51 Lust: the jump between 03:04:080 (11,12) - is way overdone
22:51 Jenny: eh
22:51 Jenny: it's just a 195 1/2
22:51 Jenny: I feel like I don't want the snap on 12 though
22:51 Jenny: so I'll probably redo that
22:52 Lust: alrighty, feel free to show it to me sometime if you'd like
22:53 Lust: 03:10:926 (6,1) - the spacing between these felt too unnatural given the play
22:53 Lust: lowering the spacing between the two objects works
22:53 Jenny: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/3260132
22:53 Jenny: I like this actually, makes 15 a snap since it has the strong drum
22:54 Jenny: 03:10:926 (6,1) - thing about these is, if I lower the distance the visual cues will look really bad
22:56 Lust: like...03:11:388 (6,1) - stuff like this plays really well because of the downward lead into it
22:56 Lust: 03:10:926 (6,1) - requires some pretty extreneous movement
22:56 Jenny: I know that
22:56 Lust: so lowering the spacing between them would be ideal
22:56 Jenny: thing is, how visuals
22:57 Jenny: http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/3260143
22:57 Jenny: that'd be 2.05x instead of.. 2.4x?
22:57 Jenny: so it's basically the same as 03:11:388 (6,1,6,1) -
22:57 Lust: should work yeah
22:58 Jenny: 03:10:849 (5,2) - I wanted more spacing between these for visual balance but I guess it still 'works'
22:58 Jenny: not as well visually, but should be okay
23:01 Lust: the last of the examples is 03:52:849 (3,1) - this
23:01 Lust: and well i already told you about it earlier lol
23:01 Jenny: hm
23:01 Jenny: do you have an idea about how like
23:01 Jenny: I could add a little curl at the start of the slider
23:01 Jenny: so it indicates a hold?
23:03 Lust: no idea, the recommendation i brought up was to lower the spacing between the two objects
23:03 Lust: but if you could figure out how to do that, that works to i suppose
23:03 Lust: since it will make the slow down more noticeable
23:03 Jenny: I'd increase the speed by +0.02x or smth so it keeps the same length then
23:03 Jenny: but that'll be some fiddling
23:03 Jenny: so many beziers
23:04 Lust: and lastly, the other thing that was mentioned was that combo color 1 and combo color 2 are too similar
23:04 Lust: i disagreed, but welp i suppose changing it wouldnt hurt too much
23:06 Jenny: http://puu.sh/iqbqW/91a7d71300.png
23:06 Jenny: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/3260176
23:06 Lust: i'd have to see what the objects look like to be sure, but from the looks of it
23:06 Jenny: or would that work
23:06 Lust: it should be fine
23:07 Lust: that works
23:07 Lust: thats actually what i had down originally haha
23:07 Jenny: you see
23:07 Jenny: the only problem with this is
23:08 Jenny: 04:15:157 (1) - I will now have to arrange this pattern :[
23:08 Lust: :[
23:08 Jenny: actually, works.
23:09 Jenny: yeah
23:09 Jenny: easy
23:09 Jenny: 04:15:157 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - just moved this to the nex sliderend, kept the exact same spacing towards 04:16:541 (8) -
23:09 Jenny: is that all?
23:10 Lust: welp, they were just examples so i'm sure there are other instances where they could be applied
23:10 Lust: but you heard that whole spiel before
23:10 Lust: yada yada yada
23:10 Jenny: :p
23:10 Jenny: I'd like the timestamps to be fair
23:11 Lust: going to DQ it now, we are trying out this new format for DQs to get ready for the new anonymized QAT account
23:11 Lust: so if the DQ post looks robotic as hell, just know that its intentional lol
23:11 Jenny: I.. see?
23:12 Jenny: using "dat hype train" for maximum new DQ model exposure :^)
23:12 Lust: LOL i wonder if the guys upstairs calculated this situation beforehand... haha
23:12 Jenny: no surprise would be had
23:13 Jenny: but yeah, go ahead
23:14 Lust: posted, lets hope things dont blow too far out of proportion lol
23:15 Jenny: at least you didn't do it like Garven and looked at the map before you DQ'd it :p
23:16 Jenny: 03:34:926 (6,1,6,1) - also, lowered these to 2.3x
23:17 Lust: lets see how fast this is posted to reddit haha
23:18 Lust: ...
23:18 Lust: that was quick
23:18 Lust: LOL
Kyubey
Don't call notes after 1/4 sliders streamjumps, please, they are played in totally different way.

Edit: Bubble #1.
Frc

[ C R O W N S ] wrote:

What did I say.

Damn that was pro
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