What caused the beatmap style to change?

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bigfeh

buny wrote:

Mashley wrote:

Real truth bomb coming through

Mapping basically changed because of people trying to outdo each other in how hard they could make their maps. Because the reality mappers should accept is that the vast majority of songs just are not appropriate for these uber-hard maps they want to make, but they want to map these songs anyway. So as a more experienced playerbase started demanding more difficult maps, mappers responded by throwing out the basic principles which used to hold mapping together and just making everything stupidly difficult with no regard for consistency with the music.

A lot of the stuff that is considered normal now caused huge shitstorms back then, but eventually there were so many people making these maps that people stopped caring and it became accepted.
I can nearly taste the salt while reading this
pandaBee
Id be happy if mappers could find a compromise between the old and new styles
Mashley
Maybe it's unfair to expect people who weren't there to appreciate the way that this game and its community has changed? I dunno.
Yuudachi-kun

Mashley wrote:

Maybe it's unfair to expect people who weren't there to appreciate the way that this game and its community has changed? I dunno.
I guess we don't have access to old maps - they've all gone away no longer able to be played
Endaris

pandaBee wrote:

what has given us thousands of copies of the same beatmap - just with different songs attached.
I think the causes are kinda logic - and it's also due to the fact that thousands of songs in osu! sound pretty much the same.
Back then no one really had a clue how to do an objectively good beatmap, everyone just tried things and beatmaps ended up being good or bad.
Now some of the smarter folks looked at the good maps they/others did and figured some things out that work:
The most ruining thing for the modern beatmapping is the idea of putting an own percussion line via hitsounds.
While this idea can produce very good results when used in sensible spots and being executed with consistence it went out of hand and people who played some of such maps were like:
"huh, that beatmap's cool, i could just make some circles and sliders for my favorite song that aren't connected to the melody or anything and have my own beatmap!" while not understanding why the beatmapper did that in the specific case nor how he did it - i think the same kind of mapper also likes to include hipster-slidershapes.
The result are beatmaps that are kind of random and don't focus on the special needs of a song. If you have bad luck the mapper doesn't even include melody at the refrain but just puts a new drumline that is subconsciously influenced by the refrain which makes it even more confusing. Another problem connected with this is that these maps are easily playable and don't feel wrong in particular which is why regular modders that never thought about this will just play it through, think "ok, this is playable" and leave it being - I have to point out here though that at least the inconsistencies in this particular way of mapping usually get noticed and modded accordingly(even though the song might have deserved something better than that).
Old maps don't have this particular problem as much as this style wasn't popular back then(usually they're heavily focused on melody) but they tend to have other problems that modern beatmaps successfully avoid.

I don't know, let's take this map(the hard diff):
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/359972
Even though it's very simple(or maybe because of that) this map absolutely makes sense. There is no room for any doubt or questions, the hitsounds are ligned up with the vocals 100%. On the opposite take pretty much any hard diff from Fycho. The majority of them makes sense too(the ones i played at least) but it's a lot harder to grasp as he switches between vocals and drumline very often and while it feels right you don't get any theoretical understanding of how he did it by just playing it which is why maps will feel similar if they somehow mix vocals+drumline even though they aren't similar at all.
Sorun

buny wrote:

basically, people started realising that small circles, low ar, consistent 1x ds spacing was a horrible way of mapping
Ohh this so much.

I personally love how beatmaps are being made now. Especially all the TV sizes.
Maeglwn
it changed when people realized you can put excessively dumb jumps into maps where they make little to no sense and have people like it because it's innovative and edgy

nowadays now we just have every other map massively overmapped to unplayability and yet people have shifted their standards back so far that its considered, to this day, to be innovative and creative

sad life
B1rd

Maeglwn wrote:

it changed when people realized you can put excessively dumb jumps into maps where they make little to no sense and have people like it because it's innovative and edgy

nowadays now we just have every other map massively overmapped to unplayability and yet people have shifted their standards back so far that its considered, to this day, to be innovative and creative

sad life
You really think people would like maps that are unplayable just because they're 'innovative and edgy'? Maybe they like the maps because they're fun to play?
Maeglwn

B1rd wrote:

You really think people would like maps that are unplayable just because they're 'innovative and edgy'? Maybe they like the maps because they're fun to play?
yea, I really like it when people map things solely for the top .5% of players in the community to play and the rest to watch
Yuudachi-kun

Maeglwn wrote:

B1rd wrote:

You really think people would like maps that are unplayable just because they're 'innovative and edgy'? Maybe they like the maps because they're fun to play?
yea, I really like it when people map things solely for the top .5% of players in the community to play and the rest to watch
You sound a bit bitter that people aren't mapping things exclusively for you and should cater to you.
Maeglwn

Kheldragar wrote:

You sound a bit bitter that people aren't mapping things exclusively for you and should cater to you.
lol, what? I only map, I don't actually play that often anymore, it's just a general analyzation of the maps that have been popular and ranked lately, that's all. I really couldn't care less about things being made for "me"
Lach

Maeglwn wrote:

B1rd wrote:

You really think people would like maps that are unplayable just because they're 'innovative and edgy'? Maybe they like the maps because they're fun to play?
yea, I really like it when people map things solely for the top .5% of players in the community to play and the rest to watch
Realistically, that's why people enforce difficulty spreads. So there's something for everyone to play. Mapping something difficult for high end players, providing it is good, should be encouraged as long as there's adequate stuff for everyone else to play. And you know this.
Yuudachi-kun

Maeglwn wrote:

Kheldragar wrote:

You sound a bit bitter that people aren't mapping things exclusively for you and should cater to you.
lol, what? I only map, I don't actually play that often anymore, it's just a general analyzation of the maps that have been popular and ranked lately, that's all. I really couldn't care less about things being made for "me"
Then replace "me" with some random player of the general public. Too bad if a map is too difficult for you - fucking get better to play it. There's lots of maps available at lower skill levels, stop whinging that some mappers make some songs you can't play.
B1rd

Maeglwn wrote:

yea, I really like it when people map things solely for the top .5% of players in the community to play and the rest to watch
Well doesn't it makes sense that there are people mapping for the top .5% which are the people who play the game the most? And considering there are thousands of thousands of mapsets of low difficulty maps that cater to infrequent/casual players, and that every expert map has to have low difficulties includes, I'm not sure what your problem is.

I don't see how any mapping standards have dropped, and I quite enjoy playing the variety of mapping styles.
Maeglwn

Kheldragar wrote:

Then replace "me" with some random player of the general public. Too bad if a map is too difficult for you - fucking get better to play it. There's lots of maps available at lower skill levels, stop whinging that some mappers make some songs you can't play.
you completely missed the point of the post, it's not that people are too bad to play it, it's that maps are specificially getting harder and harder to the point where it takes the best players time to even pass them. mashley explained it pretty well earlier, people are mapping for difficulty, easy as that

Lach wrote:

Realistically, that's why people enforce difficulty spreads. So there's something for everyone to play. Mapping something difficult for high end players, providing it is good, should be encouraged as long as there's adequate stuff for everyone else to play. And you know this.
lach you and I both know there's issues with ~ s p r e a d ~ all of the time that just gets overlooked
Yuudachi-kun

Maeglwn wrote:

Kheldragar wrote:

Then replace "me" with some random player of the general public. Too bad if a map is too difficult for you - fucking get better to play it. There's lots of maps available at lower skill levels, stop whinging that some mappers make some songs you can't play.
you completely missed the point of the post, it's not that people are too bad to play it, it's that maps are specificially getting harder and harder to the point where it takes the best players time to even pass them. mashley explained it pretty well earlier, people are mapping for difficulty, easy as that
And I really, really don't see the problem with that; I just don't.
Maeglwn

Kheldragar wrote:

And I really, really don't see the problem with that; I just don't.
because difficulty is being artificially increased by overmapping things that shouldn't be overmapped

if you look at some of the newer 7 star maps, this is especially apparent. its all over the map. that's not quality, that's difficulty spikes to try and be the most popular
Mashley
It's a basic principle of what makes a good map that it should connect with the music. For the last few years of course the majority of mappers have forgotten about that.

But what do I care, I don't even play this game any more lol. Peace.

EDIT: And I might add that the people who defend maps with 'but it's fun' are the same people who watch the transformers movies or your latest kawaii schoolgirl anime. They don't care about it being well made, they just want it to be flashy. Ok now peace for real.
Astrofiziks
EDIT: And I might add that the people who defend maps with 'but it's fun' are the same people who watch the transformers movies or your latest kawaii schoolgirl anime. They don't care about it being well made, they just want it to be flashy. Ok now peace for real.
they're fun, i love fun and also transformers
bigfeh
I feel that some newer dnb maps are particularly overmapped. DnB maps have this problem because "muh dnb" so people end up mapping beats that aren't there just because dnb

Other than that, if the map isn't just a patternless mess, I don't really mind it being slightly jumpy
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