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Where should I look for a mouse?

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lolcubes
osu! Alumni
4,437 posts
Joined November 2010
lolcubes
If money isn't an issue and you don't mind a slightly shitty scrollwheel and a slightly heavy mouse, G502 is really really good.
Also, despite people bashing and hating on the old G500 (though G400S is better ofc), I can vouch that it's actually pretty good, good enough for aiming/clicking in this game at least.

Otherwise look for G100S or something similar. I wouldn't recommend steelseries and zowie mice despite their amazing sensors because the buttons have longer travel distance, which can either introduce physical input lag or higher stamina drain.
Andrea
Beatmap Nominator
16,650 posts
Joined August 2008
Andrea
I personally have a Logitech G400S and can confirm you that it's a pretty good mouse for playing osu!, I'd surely suggest you to take that if possible. Pretty good price and also really good for gaming in general.
ChaosThief
27 posts
Joined March 2013
Topic Starter
ChaosThief
Thank you for the suggestions! I'll try to get a G400 series (I'm seeing this one as a common recommendation) some time soon.

I appreciate all the help!

For those curious, I'm using a wheel mouse optical from microsoft currently. For now I'll practice using the current mouse as I can still learn from this, but I'll try to get my hands on a new one.

I really do appreciate the help, so thank you all!
The Gambler
1,304 posts
Joined September 2013
The Gambler

ChaosThief wrote:

Thank you for the suggestions! I'll try to get a G400 series (I'm seeing this one as a common recommendation) some time soon.

I appreciate all the help!

For those curious, I'm using a wheel mouse optical from microsoft currently. For now I'll practice using the current mouse as I can still learn from this, but I'll try to get my hands on a new one.

I really do appreciate the help, so thank you all!
Be sure to go for the G400s, as the earlier versions of the G400 were known to have issues. Quoted from here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0
ChaosThief
27 posts
Joined March 2013
Topic Starter
ChaosThief
Got it, thank you!
ZenithPhantasm
ZenithPhantasm

ziin wrote:

The g402 is snake-oil and doesn't use a perfect sensor, but it's probably good enough for most use.
The Avago AM010 sensor is flawless
bigfeh
1,149 posts
Joined January 2013
bigfeh

ZenithPhantasm wrote:

ziin wrote:

The g402 is snake-oil and doesn't use a perfect sensor, but it's probably good enough for most use.
The Avago AM010 sensor is flawless
He was probably referring to the old g402, from what I understood by the other posts. I'm borderline retarded atm because of sleep deprivation so I can't really tell whether it's bullshit

as for sensors, people apparently hate the ADNS9200 but YES I HAVE ZERO PROBLEMS WITH IT. I tried actively looking for acceleration but couldn't find shit. In the name of fairness, though, as someone who plays at just under 2800CPI, I don't even get close to the perfect tracking speeds of any decent sensor. Apparently, however, I couldn't break it even when I tried to, so...

The Sensei also has the perfect shape and great switches. Go for it unless you play at 100CPI
ZenithPhantasm
ZenithPhantasm
Sensei has a vastly inferior sensor. Avoid at all costs.
FieryLight
217 posts
Joined January 2013
FieryLight

bigfeh wrote:

ZenithPhantasm wrote:

The Avago AM010 sensor is flawless
He was probably referring to the old g402, from what I understood by the other posts. I'm borderline retarded atm because of sleep deprivation so I can't really tell whether it's bullshit

as for sensors, people apparently hate the ADNS9200 but YES I HAVE ZERO PROBLEMS WITH IT. I tried actively looking for acceleration but couldn't find shit. In the name of fairness, though, as someone who plays at just under 2800CPI, I don't even get close to the perfect tracking speeds of any decent sensor. Apparently, however, I couldn't break it even when I tried to, so...

The Sensei also has the perfect shape and great switches. Go for it unless you play at 100CPI
No, it's the earlier versions of the g400 (not the g402) that have a flawed sensor.

You won't notice the difference between a good sensor and a bad sensor until you've gotten used to a good sensor. However, it's not necessary to have a good sensor, plenty of people play extraordinarily well with mice that don't have "flawless" sensors. If you're very keen on finding the acceleration in your mouse with the ADNS9200 you can carefully (watching your mouse, not the monitor) move very quickly to the right and then return left several times and I assure you you'll find your cursor in a place that you wouldn't consider close enough to the original position to say that there is no acceleration. <-- try starting from the very left and move about have a screen's worth of movement to the right

None of Steelseries products have a good sensor except the Optical Rival and the Kana V2 (discontinued). But again, you don't necessarily need a good sensor to be a good mouse player
ZenithPhantasm
ZenithPhantasm
Every top mouse player uses a sensor with zero acceleration:
AmaiHachimitsu (3310, MLT04)
Doomsday (S3888)
Angelsim (AM010)
FunOrange (AM010, S3090)
Gokuri (S3095)
Astar (MLT04)

Oh wow there's only 5 in top 100 (Astar doesn't count cause he switched to tablet now
bigfeh
1,149 posts
Joined January 2013
bigfeh

FieryLight wrote:

bigfeh wrote:

He was probably referring to the old g402, from what I understood by the other posts. I'm borderline retarded atm because of sleep deprivation so I can't really tell whether it's bullshit

as for sensors, people apparently hate the ADNS9200 but YES I HAVE ZERO PROBLEMS WITH IT. I tried actively looking for acceleration but couldn't find shit. In the name of fairness, though, as someone who plays at just under 2800CPI, I don't even get close to the perfect tracking speeds of any decent sensor. Apparently, however, I couldn't break it even when I tried to, so...

The Sensei also has the perfect shape and great switches. Go for it unless you play at 100CPI
No, it's the earlier versions of the g400 (not the g402) that have a flawed sensor.

You won't notice the difference between a good sensor and a bad sensor until you've gotten used to a good sensor. However, it's not necessary to have a good sensor, plenty of people play extraordinarily well with mice that don't have "flawless" sensors. If you're very keen on finding the acceleration in your mouse with the ADNS9200 you can carefully (watching your mouse, not the monitor) move very quickly to the right and then return left several times and I assure you you'll find your cursor in a place that you wouldn't consider close enough to the original position to say that there is no acceleration. <-- try starting from the very left and move about have a screen's worth of movement to the right

None of Steelseries products have a good sensor except the Optical Rival and the Kana V2 (discontinued). But again, you don't necessarily need a good sensor to be a good mouse player
as I mentioned, I tried actively looking for acceleration doing that (using a position reference for the mouse (my mousepad has a pattern) and one for the cursor) and other methods. Even tried testing software, and the differences in the results, if any, were so negligible that they might have been even my own fault, in light of the fact that I am, most likely, not a robot and thus not completely precise.

The fact that I couldn't find it when I tried just works to further prove my point that, in my case, this sensor might as well be a perfect fucking sensor or whatever (which just happen to be that much fucking overrated - do you guys even read your posts before posting? It's starting to get tiring), because I definitely don't get anywhere near the perfect tracking speed for this sensor

Look, let me put it this way: using an absolute sensitivity calculator, I quickly find out that my play area for osu! is of 2.1082cm x 1.5748cm. Assuming I have to hit a 1/4th jump across the screen on a 200bpm map, which is probably undoable, I have to get from one circle to another in 75ms. With a bit of math, we quickly find out that I have to travel approximately 3.31999cm in 75ms, or 0.0331999m in 0.075s, which gives me a theoretical maximum speed of 0.442665333333m/s.

Even if I had to hit a 1/8th jump at that same distance, my speed would be of about 0.88m/s, which, yeah, is still probably under the perfect tracking speed for this sensor. And for any decent sensor.

So, for me, the ADNS9500 is a perfect sensor. Get the fuck over it.
The Gambler
1,304 posts
Joined September 2013
The Gambler
^^The issue at hand isn't acceleration, but something to do with SROM (the software, not the sensor) which affects tracking overall. Earlier versions of the G400 were known to have this issue (up to a certain serial number) and the G400s (the S version of the mouse with the different paint job) doesn't. It simply a matter of quality control, and I've only suggested a surefire way of avoiding that issue without straying too far from the decision the OP made

He did decide on buying a G400 series mouse, right?
ZenithPhantasm
ZenithPhantasm
Test results say otherwise 8-)
autoteleology
763 posts
Joined October 2014
autoteleology
What's the lightest perfect sensor mouse? Please tell me it is not anything Microsoft branded.
Noobsicle
674 posts
Joined October 2013
Noobsicle

dagambler999 wrote:

He did decide on buying a G400 series mouse, right?
hope he doesn't go for g402
the clicks are too blehdsoghsdjg for mouse only
bigfeh
1,149 posts
Joined January 2013
bigfeh
Logitech mice are good but a bit overrated imo. Too heavy and weirdly shaped for my taste, but that's just me

I feel the need to point out that a perfect sensor is only perfect until you break its perfect tracking speed, at which point it starts shitting itself just like any other sensor. As I have shown, the ADNS9500, which is widely regarded as a bad sensor, is effectively, for me, as perfect as the fucking S3090 or the AM010, or whatever. A perfect sensor just really depends on your CPI, since that's the biggest factor in determining what your max speeds are going to be - if you don't get past the pf. tr. speeds, you will have zero problems with your sensor.
NixXSkate
785 posts
Joined February 2011
NixXSkate

Philosofikal wrote:

What's the lightest perfect sensor mouse? Please tell me it is not anything Microsoft branded.
It's probably the Razer Abyssus. CM Storm Spawn is very light as well but lately they've been low on stock.
The Gambler
1,304 posts
Joined September 2013
The Gambler

Philosofikal wrote:

What's the lightest perfect sensor mouse? Please tell me it is not anything Microsoft branded.
Zowie FK? I've owned an FK2 as of the late and is crazy light compared to my G502. Granted, I like the ergo on the 502 better
FieryLight
217 posts
Joined January 2013
FieryLight

NixXSkate wrote:

Philosofikal wrote:

What's the lightest perfect sensor mouse? Please tell me it is not anything Microsoft branded.
It's probably the Razer Abyssus. CM Storm Spawn is very light as well but lately they've been low on stock.
I have both those mice and the Spawn is quite noticeably heavier. Personally I welcomed this change since with 1600 DPI I need more control than speed =P

Should be noted that I went from Abyssus -> Spawn though only because the Abyssus was horrible (literally gave me a bruise, lmao and then eventually just became unusable b/c of the internals getting loose). All in all, don't go Razer. Look around and you hear tons of stories about their crappy quality control and crappy customer support whereas Logitech is just great in both departments
bigfeh
1,149 posts
Joined January 2013
bigfeh

FieryLight wrote:

All in all, don't go Razer.
I second this. I've never owned any Razer peripherals, but I've used quite a few of their products - all of which ended up being mediocre at best (Anansi kb, used it for ~40 minutes only though) to soul-shatteringly dreadful to the point of being downright atrocious (tiamat 7.1, I'm looking at you.). For the price, they're all shit (save for maybe one or two cases?)
FieryLight
217 posts
Joined January 2013
FieryLight

ZenithPhantasm wrote:

Every top mouse player uses a sensor with zero acceleration:
AmaiHachimitsu (3310, MLT04)
Doomsday (S3888)
Angelsim (AM010)
FunOrange (AM010, S3090)
Gokuri (S3095)
Astar (MLT04)

Oh wow there's only 5 in top 100 (Astar doesn't count cause he switched to tablet now
You missed captnXn and JappyBabes D= (although I do believe Jappy has gone to the dark side... not sure). Peachick has since quit but still #60 !

Anyway, don't forget SiLviA who used some random mouse with both hardware acceleration and prediction. He's set many scores that still haven't been beaten and has done a lot of insanely impressive things. Also, I noticed a player called Andrew getting some really nice plays lately and he uses a Sensei Frost Blue or something like that. It's totally possible to get good with an imperfect mouse although I admit, best would be hard (though SiLviA did it (#2 right after Cookiezi!))
guineaQ
1,588 posts
Joined December 2013
guineaQ
Heck, cheap $10 mouse still does wonders, for me, the biggest improvement factor was when I changed the mousepad
NixXSkate
785 posts
Joined February 2011
NixXSkate

FieryLight wrote:

ZenithPhantasm wrote:

Every top mouse player uses a sensor with zero acceleration:
AmaiHachimitsu (3310, MLT04)
Doomsday (S3888)
Angelsim (AM010)
FunOrange (AM010, S3090)
Gokuri (S3095)
Astar (MLT04)

Oh wow there's only 5 in top 100 (Astar doesn't count cause he switched to tablet now
You missed cptnXn and JappyBabes D= (although I do believe Jappy has gone to the dark side... not sure). Peachick has since quit but still #60 !

Anyway, don't forget SiLviA who used some random mouse with both hardware acceleration and prediction. He's set many scores that still haven't been beaten and has done a lot of insanely impressive things. Also, I noticed a player called Andrew getting some really nice plays lately and he uses a Sensei Frost Blue or something like that. It's totally possible to get good with an imperfect mouse although I admit, best would be hard (though SiLviA did it (#2 right after Cookiezi!))
Nobody knows the sensor in SiLviA's mouse. It could have been an A3050 or something, who knows. It wouldn't be considered a flawless mouse of course, but who knows whether it had acceleration and/or prediction. [ Beatrice ] used a mouse with prediction back in ppv1 days, but I don't think prediction is that problematic for a game like osu!. Furthermore, a player going from a decent mouse to a good mouse doesn't make a player get better scores, it just may help with consistency a tad. People aren't flinging their mouse around on jumpy 300bpm songs with CS7 and 200dpi, you can definitely play fine with only minor acceleration, but why not settle for the best? Who wants to blame their mouse if they overshoot a fast jump by 2 pixels?

Also I think the Razer Abyssus and DeathAdder are fine mice. The Abyssus is the lightest, but because of it, isn't very robust. The CM Storm Spawn is a great mouse but I had problems getting used to it because of the low placed sensor, it's not a good mouse for someone like me who changes mice around a lot.
lolcubes
osu! Alumni
4,437 posts
Joined November 2010
lolcubes
The OP wants to play with a mouse, not a mouse and keyboard. While a lot of good mice have good switches/sensors, due to the physical build they have, some of them have pretty noticeable click input latency.

G300 being used to compare the input delay between some mice:
SPOILER

You don't need a perfect sensor for this game. As bigfeh already mentioned, you should also aim at a certain CPI to use. Not every mouse acts the same on the same CPI.
I would say heavy mice might be better for mouse only than super light ones, because you will have better stability when you click streams.
bigfeh
1,149 posts
Joined January 2013
bigfeh

FieryLight wrote:

ZenithPhantasm wrote:

Every top mouse player uses a sensor with zero acceleration:
AmaiHachimitsu (3310, MLT04)
Doomsday (S3888)
Angelsim (AM010)
FunOrange (AM010, S3090)
Gokuri (S3095)
Astar (MLT04)

Oh wow there's only 5 in top 100 (Astar doesn't count cause he switched to tablet now
You missed captnXn and JappyBabes D= (although I do believe Jappy has gone to the dark side... not sure). Peachick has since quit but still #60 !

Anyway, don't forget SiLviA who used some random mouse with both hardware acceleration and prediction. He's set many scores that still haven't been beaten and has done a lot of insanely impressive things. Also, I noticed a player called Andrew getting some really nice plays lately and he uses a Sensei Frost Blue or something like that. It's totally possible to get good with an imperfect mouse although I admit, best would be hard (though SiLviA did it (#2 right after Cookiezi!))
I'll go ahead and say something that is true even though I'll just end up getting bashed for it.

Acceleration is completely fine, as long as it is consistent. The only problem you'd see in osu! would be cursor drift and that's about it. If your sensor is consistent, even if not completely accurate, you can be completely accurate with it. You learn the sensor. You understand how to play with acceleration. I've heard about a few pros that play with accel and like it (I can try and look up the names if anyone's curious - I think they play csgo or some shit)

lolcubes wrote:

The OP wants to play with a mouse, not a mouse and keyboard. While a lot of good mice have good switches/sensors, due to the physical build they have, some of them have pretty noticeable click input latency.

G300 being used to compare the input delay between some mice:
SPOILER

You don't need a perfect sensor for this game. As bigfeh already mentioned, you should also aim at a certain CPI to use. Not every mouse acts the same on the same CPI.
I would say heavy mice might be better for mouse only than super light ones, because you will have better stability when you click streams.
Cool graph, that's very interesting. Do you have the source on that?

And yeah, you don't need a "perfect" sensor for anything. As for the weight, though, I like my mice as light as they can possibly get, though some people will strongly disagree with me. Yes, a heavier mouse will give you a bit more of stability, but it's also harder to move, thus making the game more taxing on your stamina and making you slower when compared to a light mouse.
ZenithPhantasm
ZenithPhantasm

FieryLight wrote:

ZenithPhantasm wrote:

Every top mouse player uses a sensor with zero acceleration:
AmaiHachimitsu (3310, MLT04)
Doomsday (S3888)
Angelsim (AM010)
FunOrange (AM010, S3090)
Gokuri (S3095)
Astar (MLT04)

Oh wow there's only 5 in top 100 (Astar doesn't count cause he switched to tablet now
You missed captnXn and JappyBabes D= (although I do believe Jappy has gone to the dark side... not sure). Peachick has since quit but still #60 !
uld be hard (though SiLviA did it (#2 right after Cookiezi!))
Brb kms
The Gambler
1,304 posts
Joined September 2013
The Gambler
He already decided the mouse he's gonna get. Thread lock soon...
ChaosThief
27 posts
Joined March 2013
Topic Starter
ChaosThief
I'm still a rookie in the mouse world (and the computer world in general), and this is quite interesting to read, honestly.

Mouse acceleration hasn't been a problem since I went into the registry to modify it (currently at 6/6 I believe)

Precision has been somewhat of a problem for me as well, but if the mouse can handle more clicks then I'm reasonably sure it has better precision than what I have.
bigfeh
1,149 posts
Joined January 2013
bigfeh

ChaosThief wrote:

I'm still a rookie in the mouse world (and the computer world in general), and this is quite interesting to read, honestly.

Mouse acceleration hasn't been a problem since I went into the registry to modify it (currently at 6/6 I believe)

Precision has been somewhat of a problem for me as well, but if the mouse can handle more clicks then I'm reasonably sure it has better precision than what I have.
When a sensor has acceleration, you can't disable it, because it is an innate characteristic of the hardware itself. It doesn't matter how unprocessed the input is after it gets to the computer. Even if you use the raw input from the mouse, you'd see acceleration, since the mouse communicates with its sensor, and before that information gets to the computer, you've already seen the acceleration.
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