Bingo, game's over. We win. ^_^nardi11011 wrote:
Let's recap:
Confirmed wolves:Rolled
Zerostarry
Wojjan
Todesengal
Confirmed aux roles:
Psychic - Two
Seer - Someone known to Two
Insomniac - Someone known to Two
Ninja - someone
Ninja kills a wolf = no night kill
So if we just let the ninja kill the confirmed wolves, and try to figure out the rest during the day and using the psychic and insomniac, we'll definitely win!
forum
The Werewolf Game 5 (Ended by Host Decision)
posted
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572
so can the ninja please pm me who you are so we don't lynch you thx
in the mean time vote adam2046
and that ninja rule is pretty gay
in the mean time vote adam2046
and that ninja rule is pretty gay
Vampire.Todesengal wrote:
oh fuck you ace
vote: Ace of Hearts
This game mostly broke when Two was able to scan N2, IMO, assuming he really was able to (vampire!).
By the way, adam is the Ninja.
yeah tbh that ninja might be a bit TOO powerful when used together with information gathering roles because the wolves can't do anything to them
but I DON'T CARE
but I DON'T CARE
I'm going to post this again in red font because people read red font can the ninja pm me so we don't lynch you
also if I was a wolf I would honestly just post the wolf list at this point cause I'm sure I'd be mad
so good for you for being stronger than me
also if I was a wolf I would honestly just post the wolf list at this point cause I'm sure I'd be mad
so good for you for being stronger than me
Topic Starter
I actually had to check my own rules, because I'd forgotten what my exact stipulations were. I thought I'd removed the Wolf kill cancellation clause, but it is in there, and I must go with what's in the rules. It will be different next time.
herfderf you even counted it why would I complain about a pv I don't haveTodesengal wrote:
yeah cuz Tode will fuck your shit up rargh
/flex
edit: fuck it I was waiting to see if Rolled would claw his way back onto osu to at least try to refute some of the accusations but it seems either he can't or doesn't care enough to try. vote: Rolled
I was complaining about the ninja rule. God, we don't even get his name AND our kill was cancelled? Thanks for that dickmove. Thanks for letting Two scan the night he was revived, that's plausible sure thanks.
The kill cancel was lame, Ninja should get a kill and Wolves should get one. That way humans get a lynch + ninja and wolves get their NK, assuming there is no GA protecting them obviously. Getting his name shouldn't happen, that's the point of being a ninja.Todesengal wrote:
herfderf you even counted it why would I complain about a pv I don't haveTodesengal wrote:
yeah cuz Tode will fuck your shit up rargh
/flex
edit: fuck it I was waiting to see if Rolled would claw his way back onto osu to at least try to refute some of the accusations but it seems either he can't or doesn't care enough to try. vote: Rolled
I was complaining about the ninja rule. God, we don't even get his name AND our kill was cancelled? Thanks for that dickmove. Thanks for letting Two scan the night he was revived, that's plausible sure thanks.
Two scanning the night he was revived is completely legitimate.
Topic Starter
Gee, I think I can remove a PV. It ain't hard. All I needed was proof that you voted, which you provided in your quote, and I checked my log; you did vote, for Rolled, but somehow I did not mark you in the main status list in blue as having Voted, so there was a mental slip somewhere, which was my fault. I'll remove the PV.
Also, no more bitching about the Ninja rules. I would have it different too, but what's in the rules is how I must operate; as I said, I'll make sure I get rid of the wolfkill cancellation clause next game.
I'll answer the scan question using a hypothetical: If there were a dead Psychic, and he happened to get resurrected, at Night, and there was still time before the deadline in which said Psychic managed to squeeze in a request to use their ability, there are no problems with it, as it is still Night, they are now alive, and they will have sent their request before the deadline. I would treat the death and subsequent Night resurrection of any other information gathering aux role - including the Wolf Pack Leader if a Priest happened to res a WPL by mistake - the same way.
As far as I am concerned, being a reasonable Host who follows written rules, this Werewolf Game is not at all broken and is currently functioning perfectly within its rulesets and parameters.
Also, no more bitching about the Ninja rules. I would have it different too, but what's in the rules is how I must operate; as I said, I'll make sure I get rid of the wolfkill cancellation clause next game.
I'll answer the scan question using a hypothetical: If there were a dead Psychic, and he happened to get resurrected, at Night, and there was still time before the deadline in which said Psychic managed to squeeze in a request to use their ability, there are no problems with it, as it is still Night, they are now alive, and they will have sent their request before the deadline. I would treat the death and subsequent Night resurrection of any other information gathering aux role - including the Wolf Pack Leader if a Priest happened to res a WPL by mistake - the same way.
As far as I am concerned, being a reasonable Host who follows written rules, this Werewolf Game is not at all broken and is currently functioning perfectly within its rulesets and parameters.
20:59 The_King_In_Yellow I've roleclaimed wolf about 4 times this gameunvote, Vote adam2046
The game isn't broken at all, but humans win.Ace Of Hearts wrote:
Gee, I think I can remove a PV. It ain't hard. All I needed was proof that you voted, which you provided in your quote, and I checked my log; you did vote, for Rolled, but somehow I did not mark you in the main status list in blue as having Voted, so there was a mental slip somewhere, which was my fault. I'll remove the PV.
Also, no more bitching about the Ninja rules. I would have it different too, but what's in the rules is how I must operate; as I said, I'll make sure I get rid of the wolfkill cancellation clause next game.
I'll answer the scan question using a hypothetical: If there were a dead Psychic, and he happened to get resurrected, at Night, and there was still time before the deadline in which said Psychic managed to squeeze in a request to use their ability, there are no problems with it, as it is still Night, they are now alive, and they will have sent their request before the deadline. I would treat the death and subsequent Night resurrection of any other information gathering aux role - including the Wolf Pack Leader if a Priest happened to res a WPL by mistake - the same way.
As far as I am concerned, being a reasonable Host who follows written rules, this Werewolf Game is not at all broken and is currently functioning perfectly within its rulesets and parameters.
You could argue that dead players can send in their aux action even when they are dead. However, nowhere in the rules does it say dead players may not send in their aux action and have it be successful. In other words, there's no loss in a dead aux other than losing a town player's vote.Chris wrote:
Two scanning the night he was revived is completely legitimate.
Therefore, this game is shit, if you exploit that loophole. It seems Ace of Hearts mistakenly allowed that loophole to be exploited by Two. I'm not saying Two did it maliciously, but that's how I view it from a logical point of view.
Please fix the above by adding a section about death (other than "you can't post in the thread, ha!" everywhere). In my mind, role actions are queued until the end of the Night, then executed at the end of the Night in order, atomically. Therefore, dead aux roles cannot ever perform their action (unless it is a special role where things occur upon death, etc.).
In addition, nowhere in the role PM does it state that if a Ninja kills a wolf the wolves' kill is blocked. I ignore all rules about roles in the OP, as they serve as guidelines of what to expect before the game starts. I would suggest you rewrite the OP to be very general in how roles function, and let the role PM include a complete superset of the description described in the OP.
Uh? I'm not sure if I understand your post strager but I was notified that I was revived in the middle of night 2. After seeing that, I said that I'd like to scan rolled if I'm allowed to. My role wasn't automatically performed for me and I did send a pm, if that is what you are talking about.
None of them were serious brah :(Chris wrote:
20:59 The_King_In_Yellow I've roleclaimed wolf about 4 times this gameunvote, Vote adam2046
I guess that's the mistake you made, not reading the rules. Next time don't "ignore" what you don't thinks worth reading and there wont be a problem.strager wrote:
Chris wrote:
In addition, nowhere in the role PM does it state that if a Ninja kills a wolf the wolves' kill is blocked. I ignore all rules about roles in the OP, as they serve as guidelines of what to expect before the game starts. I would suggest you rewrite the OP to be very general in how roles function, and let the role PM include a complete superset of the description described in the OP.If you end up killing a Wolf, the Wolves run scared for the night (and the dead body's Wolf form is plainly visible to everyone in the morning). If you kill a human, the Wolves still get their kill (and the humans will wake up with TWO deaths the next morning).
<3Ace Of Hearts wrote:
^ Phantom Vote gets.
I wasn't saying what happened was against the rules. I was saying it is basically exploiting a loophole which needs to be covered somehow later on. One possibility of covering this loophole is having all night actions occur at once at the end of the night, and disallowing the dead from performing such an action.Two wrote:
Uh? I'm not sure if I understand your post strager but I was notified that I was revived in the middle of night 2. After seeing that, I said that I'd like to scan rolled if I'm allowed to. My role wasn't automatically performed for me and I did send a pm, if that is what you are talking about.
I guess that's the mistake you made, not reading my post (and not using a semicolon). My suggestion was to prevent "hidden" rules from messing up the game, not to revert what has happened already in this game.Chris wrote:
I guess that's the mistake you made, not reading the rules. Next time don't "ignore" what you don't thinks worth reading and there wont be a problem.
More drama yay. Oh well, these things fix themselves eventually.
SPOILER
Priest Revival theoretical rules - Aux powers / Other stuff I felt like writing.
If the priest revives an aux (In this case, Psychic) in the middle of night, and the host wants to allow the Aux his ability, the revival needs to be announced in the thread when it happens, such as halfway through Night 1. This allows the wolves to NK the Aux once again, but the psychic will get his aux ability off. However, in games where there is out of thread communication, this can be easilly exploited if the priest and the Aux are in communication. (5 minutes before deadline anyone?)
Otherwise - The announcement is the next day, and the Aux is revived with no chance to use their ability that night. Think of it as a sort of... revival sickness.
Or something like that.
Generally, there are two ways the Aux roles are handled in Mafia (Sometimes WWG too.).
1. Aux roles are completed as sent in.
2. Aux roles are queued till end of night. All roles will succeed, barring roleblocker type moves.
In scenario 1, Aux players generally want to get their action in as early as possible. This way, they'll get information in case they die. The kill still isn't announced until night ends. Example: Ninja sends PM in first, Wolf leader Sniffs Psychic, Wolf team kills Psychic, Psychic scans ninja. No roles will recieve any PMs back in this case, other than maybe a "You were killed while attempting to do your night action." If the psychic or wolf had sent in their PMs before they were killed, they would get them.
In scenario 2, all Auxes get their PMs. If the Psychic scans a wolf but is killed, the Psychic would still get his result. In this case, Auxes can wait and plan their choices.
Or something, Not gonna check through what I've written here much, but you get the point.
If the priest revives an aux (In this case, Psychic) in the middle of night, and the host wants to allow the Aux his ability, the revival needs to be announced in the thread when it happens, such as halfway through Night 1. This allows the wolves to NK the Aux once again, but the psychic will get his aux ability off. However, in games where there is out of thread communication, this can be easilly exploited if the priest and the Aux are in communication. (5 minutes before deadline anyone?)
Otherwise - The announcement is the next day, and the Aux is revived with no chance to use their ability that night. Think of it as a sort of... revival sickness.
Or something like that.
Generally, there are two ways the Aux roles are handled in Mafia (Sometimes WWG too.).
1. Aux roles are completed as sent in.
2. Aux roles are queued till end of night. All roles will succeed, barring roleblocker type moves.
In scenario 1, Aux players generally want to get their action in as early as possible. This way, they'll get information in case they die. The kill still isn't announced until night ends. Example: Ninja sends PM in first, Wolf leader Sniffs Psychic, Wolf team kills Psychic, Psychic scans ninja. No roles will recieve any PMs back in this case, other than maybe a "You were killed while attempting to do your night action." If the psychic or wolf had sent in their PMs before they were killed, they would get them.
In scenario 2, all Auxes get their PMs. If the Psychic scans a wolf but is killed, the Psychic would still get his result. In this case, Auxes can wait and plan their choices.
Or something, Not gonna check through what I've written here much, but you get the point.
Topic Starter
strager's right on at least one thing. The role ID overrides the official rules if it says something that conflicts with the official rules. However, I just checked the template, and the ID says nothing about whether or not the Wolves lose out on their kill (if it actually said they still got their kill, it would conflict with, and thus override, the official rules). There is no conflict, thus no override, therefore my hands are tied.
And sure, there's nothing in the rules about dead people not being able to send in an aux PM, but let's be serious, if it ever happened, they'd get a friendly "Remember? You're kinda dead..." and said PM would get deleted. Just because it's not stated in the rules doesn't mean it's not common sense. If you're dead you can't perform your aux actions. Duh? Although if you want, I'll still put it explicitly in the rules anyway so stupid people will see it/so smart people won't try to loophole. I keep saying I'm a reasonable Host, and I do the best job I can to follow where there are rules and create on the spot for unforseen circumstances that pop up. That's all part of my job.
And strager, for the umpteenth time, I execute Night PM actions in the order I receive them. If I get a Seer request before the Seer gets killed the same Night, I honor it because the Seer request got to me first. Sure, they can't post the info in the thread 'cuz they're dead, but it is fact of matter. Put it to ya this way, if the Priest publicly resurrects someone, then for whatever reason a Vig shoots and kills the Priest, do I tell the Priest his res is no longer effective because now his own death is now present in that Day's events? No, I don't. Again, common sense. I understand that Day and Night are different phases, but I like to run everything the same way. I like to think I'm pretty damn reasonable, butiIf you have that much of a problem with the way I run things, find a different game, because though my rules come and go, the overall style in which I run things is not going to change.
Also, though I agree that the Ninja rules need changed, I still fail to see how the current Ninja ruleset breaks the game. Dead Zero would still be dead, confirmation of Ninja kill would still be present, only difference would be that the Wolves would still get their kill under the proposed (and preferred) rule. Even under current rules, if the Ninja fucks up and kills a Human, the Wolves still get their kill, and the players wake up with TWO dead bodies in the morning. Even if the current rule isn't optimal, it's far from being so awful that it'd be an "OMG GAMEBUREAKU" rule.
I do my homework, okay people? Sometimes I have mental lapses, and when I do, I always apologize and take the blame, and when necessary, I make rulings where there were none, change the rules next game, or even make reversals when necessitated and/or when necessary proof is given (Tode no longer has a PV on her head).
o.o I'm forming a textwall. I'll stop typing before I make another paragraph or repeat how reasonable I try to be again.
And sure, there's nothing in the rules about dead people not being able to send in an aux PM, but let's be serious, if it ever happened, they'd get a friendly "Remember? You're kinda dead..." and said PM would get deleted. Just because it's not stated in the rules doesn't mean it's not common sense. If you're dead you can't perform your aux actions. Duh? Although if you want, I'll still put it explicitly in the rules anyway so stupid people will see it/so smart people won't try to loophole. I keep saying I'm a reasonable Host, and I do the best job I can to follow where there are rules and create on the spot for unforseen circumstances that pop up. That's all part of my job.
And strager, for the umpteenth time, I execute Night PM actions in the order I receive them. If I get a Seer request before the Seer gets killed the same Night, I honor it because the Seer request got to me first. Sure, they can't post the info in the thread 'cuz they're dead, but it is fact of matter. Put it to ya this way, if the Priest publicly resurrects someone, then for whatever reason a Vig shoots and kills the Priest, do I tell the Priest his res is no longer effective because now his own death is now present in that Day's events? No, I don't. Again, common sense. I understand that Day and Night are different phases, but I like to run everything the same way. I like to think I'm pretty damn reasonable, butiIf you have that much of a problem with the way I run things, find a different game, because though my rules come and go, the overall style in which I run things is not going to change.
Also, though I agree that the Ninja rules need changed, I still fail to see how the current Ninja ruleset breaks the game. Dead Zero would still be dead, confirmation of Ninja kill would still be present, only difference would be that the Wolves would still get their kill under the proposed (and preferred) rule. Even under current rules, if the Ninja fucks up and kills a Human, the Wolves still get their kill, and the players wake up with TWO dead bodies in the morning. Even if the current rule isn't optimal, it's far from being so awful that it'd be an "OMG GAMEBUREAKU" rule.
I do my homework, okay people? Sometimes I have mental lapses, and when I do, I always apologize and take the blame, and when necessary, I make rulings where there were none, change the rules next game, or even make reversals when necessitated and/or when necessary proof is given (Tode no longer has a PV on her head).
o.o I'm forming a textwall. I'll stop typing before I make another paragraph or repeat how reasonable I try to be again.
I never had a PV I don't know what you are talking about
basically all deaths and revives should be queued and only made effective at the end of a phase
but again we are getting off subject, vote for adam everyone
but again we are getting off subject, vote for adam everyone
It's also common sense that the top-voted player gets booted, but it's in the rules. Should it be removed?Ace Of Hearts wrote:
And sure, there's nothing in the rules about dead people not being able to send in an aux PM, but let's be serious, if it ever happened, they'd get a friendly "Remember? You're kinda dead..." and said PM would get deleted. Just because it's not stated in the rules doesn't mean it's not common sense. If you're dead you can't perform your aux actions. Duh? Although if you want, I'll still put it explicitly in the rules anyway so stupid people will see it/so smart people won't try to loophole. I keep saying I'm a reasonable Host, and I do the best job I can to follow where there are rules and create on the spot for unforseen circumstances that pop up. That's all part of my job.
Also, if we played a game with zombies...
Anyway.
In no way, shape, or form did I say that's not how the game currently operated, or that it's a bad way to operate the game. (I think it should be in the rules, too, but you don't seem to like clarifying things out of "common sense" or something like that.) Two ninja'd this response with what I meant:Ace Of Hearts wrote:
And strager, for the umpteenth time, I execute Night PM actions in the order I receive them. If I get a Seer request before the Seer gets killed the same Night, I honor it because the Seer request got to me first. Sure, they can't post the info in the thread 'cuz they're dead, but it is fact of matter. Put it to ya this way, if the Priest publicly resurrects someone, then for whatever reason a Vig shoots and kills the Priest, do I tell the Priest his res is no longer effective because now his own death is now present in that Day's events? No, I don't. Again, common sense. I understand that Day and Night are different phases, but I like to run everything the same way. I like to think I'm pretty damn reasonable, butiIf you have that much of a problem with the way I run things, find a different game, because though my rules come and go, the overall style in which I run things is not going to change.
Emphasizing the relevant part of my post, which I was trying to stress (unsuccessfully, apparently):Two wrote:
basically all deaths and revives should be queued and only made effective at the end of a phase
strager wrote:
In my mind, role actions are queued until the end of the Night, then executed at the end of the Night in order, atomically. Therefore, dead aux roles cannot ever perform their action (unless it is a special role where things occur upon death, etc.).
I hope that wasn't directed at me.Ace Of Hearts wrote:
Also, though I agree that the Ninja rules need changed, I still fail to see how the current Ninja ruleset breaks the game. Dead Zero would still be dead, confirmation of Ninja kill would still be present, only difference would be that the Wolves would still get their kill under the proposed (and preferred) rule. Even under current rules, if the Ninja fucks up and kills a Human, the Wolves still get their kill, and the players wake up with TWO dead bodies in the morning. Even if the current rule isn't optimal, it's far from being so awful that it'd be an "OMG GAMEBUREAKU" rule.
Voting 0_o
Wait, he wasn't here.
Unvote
Sorry bro.
Wait, he wasn't here.
Unvote
Sorry bro.
Also, vote Adam2046
Shoot: 0_o
Why?thepianist wrote:
Also, vote Adam2046
I kinda side with Ace, night actions should be processed by the order of PMs received. Think of the night phase as one flowing real-time phrase. For example, if the Seer, whoever it is, used his Seeing ability before the Ninja killed Zerostarry, then he would have seen a certain number, probably six assuming Rolled was a wolf (he is, isn't he?). If the Seer used his Seeing ability after the Ninja killed Zerostarry, he would have seen five. Whether the Seer saw before or afterh the ninja kill should be decided by whether the Seer sent his night action PM before or after the Ninja did.
Therefore, I think everything was legit, the game is still on (although very, very tipped in favor of humans at this point), and auxes might have to be weakened in the future to balance the game.
Oh, and are we not voting for wojjan because we're sure he/she is a wolf and we don't want to waste our lynching when the ninja can do the killing for us? If so, that's another NK the wolves are not gonna get. That's critical.
Therefore, I think everything was legit, the game is still on (although very, very tipped in favor of humans at this point), and auxes might have to be weakened in the future to balance the game.
Oh, and are we not voting for wojjan because we're sure he/she is a wolf and we don't want to waste our lynching when the ninja can do the killing for us? If so, that's another NK the wolves are not gonna get. That's critical.
^
I like how the night works currently better.
Just send in your PMs earlier, wolves
I like how the night works currently better.
Just send in your PMs earlier, wolves
You obviously didn't read my post.DJ KRZY wrote:
I kinda side with Ace, night actions should be processed by the order of PMs received. Think of the night phase as one flowing real-time phrase. For example, if the Seer, whoever it is, used his Seeing ability before the Ninja killed Zerostarry, then he would have seen a certain number, probably six assuming Rolled was a wolf (he is, isn't he?). If the Seer used his Seeing ability after the Ninja killed Zerostarry, he would have seen five. Whether the Seer saw before or afterh the ninja kill should be decided by whether the Seer sent his night action PM before or after the Ninja did.
Therefore, I think everything was legit, the game is still on (although very, very tipped in favor of humans at this point), and auxes might have to be weakened in the future to balance the game.
As a matter of fact I didn't. Bear with me while I do...strager wrote:
You obviously didn't read my post.
Edit : I've read your post.
Say one night a psychic scanned A. Then the psychic got NKed. Obviously, the psychic knows whether A is a wolf or not, but cannot say anything since he is dead.
The next night, the psychic gets revived, and scans B before the night is over. Now, the psychic knows about B as well as A. The next day, he is able to post about A and B.
Isn't this what happened this game? I think this is completely legit. Why shouldn't the psychic be allowed to scan A if he sent the PM before he was NKed? According to your method, the psychic never scans A because he is dead by the end of the night and therefore cannot perform his aux action. However, wouldn't it be more realistic to say the night actions occur precisely at the moment when an aux sends his night action PM to Ace? As I said before, think of the night phase as one flowing, real-time phase.
That was my two cents on the subject, it's up to Ace to decide which model she likes better.
If I have misunderstood your model, strager, please point out how because I'm not 100% certain if I have.
The whole reason why there are 4 day days and 2 day nights is because of real life. To have events happen as they are pm'd is contradictory.
That said, stop talking about this ffs. Either play the game or quit.
and everyone vote for 0_o
That said, stop talking about this ffs. Either play the game or quit.
and everyone vote for 0_o
Well, okay then
Vote: 0_o
Vote: 0_o
Just so we're all clear, Two is trying to force me to shoot someone to verify my vigilante claim.
I was so looking forward to shooting you Wojjan, but that task was reallocated to the ninja ;_;
0_o wrote:
I was so looking forward to shooting you Wojjan, but that task was reallocated to the ninja ;_;
DJ KRZY, and maybe Ace of Hearts: I'll reword my statement. The way I see the system Ace of Hearts idealizes is this:
Aux actions are only considered for alive players.
Aux actions are queued during the night.
At the end of the night, all aux actions are executed sequentially and atomically, in order of enqueuement (FIFO). All aux actions are executed, except in explicit cases. (The Ninja in this game may be such a case, though it isn't clear from the rules. I can explain this if you want.)
An alternative is to have a priority queue, or some form of partitioning. So, you can say GA protections always occur before Wolf night kills. This is what occurs in all Mafia games I have played, and is more "fair" in my opinion, as Two basically said.
Oh, and in case I'm not the vig, I'll vote: 0_o.