penoreri - Everlasting Message · forum

Monstrata

Elite Mapper: Aspirant

Joined May 2013

Monstrata 2015-10-31T03:29:57+00:00

Hi, Azer! How are you doing, man?

Fortunately, I get to take this up forever, since your bubblepop dimension is the max.
I will bubble it anymore.

Will continue with a rank after this, thanks for fixing this, please!

Everlasting Heart

Azer

World Cup Organiser

1,107 posts

Joined December 2012

Topic Starter

Azer 2015-10-31T03:32:18+00:00

Thanks, guys! How are you doing, man?

Nathan

Beatmap Nominator

2,144 posts

Joined August 2014

Nathan 2015-10-31T03:32:27+00:00

Hi, Azer! How are you doing, man?

Spaghetti

1,118 posts

Joined August 2014

Spaghetti 2015-10-31T03:38:21+00:00

Hi, Azer! How are you doing, man?

Arzenvald

4,033 posts

Joined July 2013

Arzenvald 2015-10-31T03:40:49+00:00

the fuc is happening... @__@ also wew more peperoni massage :3a
edit : good luck on qualification, and hi julie o3o

Enon

2,688 posts

Joined November 2012

Enon 2015-10-31T03:58:33+00:00

that bubble battle

Bearizm

1,213 posts

Joined October 2013

Bearizm 2015-10-31T04:26:36+00:00

Gratz!

Yohanes

1,283 posts

Joined February 2014

Yohanes 2015-10-31T04:30:29+00:00

Hi, Azer! How are you doing, man?

Congratz for Qualify!

Kyubey

osu! Alumni

3,097 posts

Joined December 2012

Kyubey 2015-10-31T11:07:15+00:00

Oh, congratulations! Sorry for not modding it, I got some keyboard issues and writing big post is kinda hard for me.

10nya

2,746 posts

Joined February 2011

10nya 2015-10-31T12:03:09+00:00

gratz azerrr \w\

Liiraye

1,354 posts

Joined December 2011

Liiraye 2015-10-31T13:45:45+00:00

Yuii- wrote:
Hi, Azer! How are you doing, man?

monstrata wrote:
Hi, Azer! How are you doing, man?

ANSWER THE QUESTION!!! I won't be able to sleep otherwise

Secretpipe

3,316 posts

Joined December 2012

Secretpipe 2015-10-31T14:13:30+00:00

lol'd hard.

gratz!

BeatofIke

4,166 posts

Joined September 2011

BeatofIke 2015-10-31T14:29:17+00:00

Congrats Azer. This is the final boss

caren_sk

782 posts

Joined October 2010

caren_sk 2015-10-31T14:32:49+00:00

congratz!!!!

Azer

World Cup Organiser

1,107 posts

Joined December 2012

Topic Starter

Azer 2015-10-31T18:34:53+00:00

Thanks <3

Bara-

11,955 posts

Joined April 2013

Bara- 2015-10-31T18:37:53+00:00

GRatz Azer!

Haruru

215 posts

Joined May 2010

Haruru 2015-10-31T19:49:18+00:00

ayyy

Histoire

482 posts

Joined December 2013

Histoire 2015-10-31T21:43:39+00:00

Hi, Azer! How are you doing, man?

Mikii

393 posts

Joined August 2013

Mikii 2015-11-01T00:24:33+00:00

ay gratz man!

Sognux

131 posts

Joined July 2013

Sognux 2015-11-01T03:22:27+00:00

Liiraye wrote:
Yuii- wrote:
Hi, Azer! How are you doing, man?
monstrata wrote:
Hi, Azer! How are you doing, man?
Histoire wrote:
Hi, Azer! How are you doing, man?

Hi, Azer! How are you doing, man?

Deppyforce

1,961 posts

Joined November 2014

Deppyforce 2015-11-01T08:40:42+00:00

hi Azer dat FINAL diff is too hard

Qualify Gratz :3

MillhioreF

Pro Tester

5,004 posts

Joined July 2011

MillhioreF 2015-11-02T05:58:58+00:00

Hi, Azer! How are you doing, man?

Unfortunately, I have to take this down for a while, due to some things I'd like to see addressed.

[Julie's STANDARD]
- This difficulty's spacing is all over the place. Some nonstandard spacing at this difficulty level is acceptable, but there are many unintuitive spacing changes in this map that make it jarring and difficult to read. Examples:

00:18:927 (1,2,1) - This is the worst offender. Earlier in the map, this spacing would have indicated a 1/2 gap, but here it's a 1/1 gap for no apparent reason.
00:21:405 (2,1) - Inconsistent spacing. This particular pattern has 1.5x spacing, but the second time this beat occurs at 00:22:188 (2,3), it's only 1.3x spacing.
00:42:666 (3,1) - The way that (3) points into (1) and has lower spacing than its previous notes, it looks like (1) has a 1/2 time gap between it instead of a 1/1 like the rest of the pattern.
00:58:318 (4,1,2) - Aside from the spacing slowdown present here before the kiai ends, the sudden jump from 1.9x to 1.0x spacing causes more ambiguity and confusion, since the spacial gap is almost the same between these three notes but the time gap doubles.
01:18:144 (3,4,1) - Same as above, except more forgivable since it's only 1.5x to 1.0x. I still don't really like it, though.

There are plenty of other spots that have questionable spacing, but these are the worst ones.

A couple other suggestions too:
00:01:449 (2,3,4) - Nowhere else in the map do you put 3 1/2 circles in a row with such spacing, and this flows pretty weirdly too. I'd recommend just making it a repeat slider.
00:05:101 (2,1,2,3) - The weird spacing of the first note here as well as the strange polarity of the slider that repeats twice makes this whole section feel really weird. I'd recommend redesigning it somewhat.

[Collab ADVANCED]
00:59:492 (5,1,2,3,4,1) - This whole section flows really poorly IMO. It doesn't necessarily need changing, but I'd recommend taking a look at it while you're here.
01:09:536 (3) - The drum sample at the end of this repeat slider confused me because I thought I hit (4) already

. I honestly think removing it entirely would help, but this might just be me so take it with a grain of salt.
01:35:492 (8,1) - I thought this was another 1/4 stack, but it's actually 1/2. I recommend unstacking (8) to make that more clear.

[Mikii's EXHAUST]
01:39:797 (4,5,6) - This is the only time this pattern appears in the map, and I don't really like how it looks or plays, either. I recommend just changing the first slider to a circle and then making a stack of 1/4 circles on top of (6) like you do elsewhere for consistency's sake.
01:54:927 (1,1) - I thought this was a 1/2 stack like all the previous stacks up to now, which threw me off a bit. You can keep it as is if you really want, but I think unstacking the circle from beneath the slider just slightly would do wonders for readability.

[Nathan's GRAVITY]
01:34:058 (1) - This should probably point to or at least blanket 01:34:384 (2,3) to indicate that it's a 1/4 gap between them, like you do elsewhere in the map.

[FINAL]
I can't mod this one very wel,l but it seems to play well enough on halftime so hey.
00:24:666 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - Oh my god Azer please why would you do this, this is so mean. The timestamp even has 666 in it. I'm not suggesting you change this, I'm just saying because WOW.

Will continue with further modding after this, but fix these, please!

Azer

World Cup Organiser

1,107 posts

Joined December 2012

Topic Starter

Azer 2015-11-02T06:01:34+00:00

Tfw even the DQ post is a meme

MillhioreF

Pro Tester

5,004 posts

Joined July 2011

MillhioreF 2015-11-02T06:02:01+00:00

just because I'm a QAT doesn't mean I'm not a top quality dank memester

Nathan

Beatmap Nominator

2,144 posts

Joined August 2014

Nathan 2015-11-02T06:06:26+00:00

fixed everything from collab and gravity diff

grv

osu file format v14

[General]
AudioFilename: everlastingmessage.mp3
AudioLeadIn: 0
PreviewTime: 83623
Countdown: 0
SampleSet: Soft
StackLeniency: 0.7
Mode: 0
LetterboxInBreaks: 0
WidescreenStoryboard: 0

[Editor]
DistanceSpacing: 0.6
BeatDivisor: 4
GridSize: 4
TimelineZoom: 3.899998

[Metadata]
Title:Everlasting Message
TitleUnicode:Everlasting Message
Artist:penoreri
ArtistUnicode:ぺのれり
Creator:Azer
Version:Nathan's GRAVITY
Source:SOUND VOLTEX III GRAVITY WARS
Tags:SDVX 3 sukiNathan guy asphyxia pkk julie mikii konami bemani
BeatmapID:716020
BeatmapSetID:302447

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CircleSize:4
OverallDifficulty:8.5
ApproachRate:9.6
SliderMultiplier:1.7
SliderTickRate:1

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collab advanced

osu file format v14

[General]
AudioFilename: everlastingmessage.mp3
AudioLeadIn: 0
PreviewTime: 83623
Countdown: 0
SampleSet: Soft
StackLeniency: 0.7
Mode: 0
LetterboxInBreaks: 0
WidescreenStoryboard: 1

[Editor]
Bookmarks: 10058,21797,23623,52058
DistanceSpacing: 0.5
BeatDivisor: 4
GridSize: 8
TimelineZoom: 2.4

[Metadata]
Title:Everlasting Message
TitleUnicode:Everlasting Message
Artist:penoreri
ArtistUnicode:ぺのれり
Creator:Azer
Version:Collab ADVANCED
Source:SOUND VOLTEX III GRAVITY WARS
Tags:SDVX 3 sukiNathan guy asphyxia pkk julie mikii konami bemani
BeatmapID:814734
BeatmapSetID:302447

[Difficulty]
HPDrainRate:6
CircleSize:4
OverallDifficulty:7
ApproachRate:8.7
SliderMultiplier:1.6
SliderTickRate:1

[Events]
//Background and Video events
0,0,"bgeverlasting.png",0,0
//Break Periods
2,25388,32369
//Storyboard Layer 0 (Background)
//Storyboard Layer 1 (Fail)
//Storyboard Layer 2 (Pass)
//Storyboard Layer 3 (Foreground)
//Storyboard Sound Samples

[TimingPoints]
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Combo2 : 63,209,252
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Combo4 : 177,233,122

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Azer

World Cup Organiser

1,107 posts

Joined December 2012

Topic Starter

Azer 2015-11-02T18:32:53+00:00

All diffs applied except for julies

MillhioreF wrote:
[FINAL]
I can't mod this one very wel,l but it seems to play well enough on halftime so hey.
00:24:666 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - Oh my god Azer please why would you do this, this is so mean. The timestamp even has 666 in it. I'm not suggesting you change this, I'm just saying because WOW.

This isn't even one of the meanest parts though imo (at first when I saw the post I thought you mentioned the part before the kiai because that one is mean as shit, I have yet to see someone not miss there and I'm open to nerfing it if it's deemed as necessary)
I wonder how you feel about https://osu.ppy.sh/s/180138 if you think that part is mean haha

MillhioreF

Pro Tester

5,004 posts

Joined July 2011

MillhioreF 2015-11-02T18:44:52+00:00

Well I tested the map on halftime, and thinking about it, I feel like super spaced stuff like that may actually be harder on halftime because you have to be more deliberate with your keystrokes and cursor movements.
Contrarily, I actually did FC the part before the first kiai on a halftime sightread, so maybe halftime isn't the best way to judge a map's playability after all

Azer

World Cup Organiser

1,107 posts

Joined December 2012

Topic Starter

Azer 2015-11-02T18:50:38+00:00

Ah, that makes sense actually, I can see why you thought so. It plays very similarly to what I linked, a lot of plays I've seen had misses there but I don't think it's too much relative to the rest of the difficulty. I tried to get as many players with the ability to play that diff to mod it but there's only so many

Mikii

393 posts

Joined August 2013

Mikii 2015-11-02T21:19:53+00:00

I agree with the suggestions and changes have been made. Thanks for that little edit Azer

. All I've done is remapped the ending so it should be okay

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405,33,92231,1,8,0:0:0:0:
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443,298,92753,2,0,L|434:201,1,85,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
260,144,93014,6,0,L|255:230,2,85,8|0|8,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
341,288,93405,2,8,P|274:335|196:309,1,170
175,149,93797,2,0,P|221:148|284:140,1,85,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
255,256,94058,6,0,P|187:230|113:298,1,170,4|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
196,320,94449,1,0,0:0:0:0:
43,233,94579,6,0,P|46:177|49:47,1,170,4|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
166,24,94971,1,0,0:0:0:0:
166,24,95101,6,0,P|162:79|160:210,1,170,4|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
246,335,95492,1,0,0:0:0:0:
294,202,95623,2,0,P|267:199|217:195,3,42.5,8|0|0|0,0:0|0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
330,129,95884,2,0,P|310:115|277:99,1,42.5,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
393,75,96014,2,0,P|385:55|370:20,1,42.5
492,159,96144,6,0,L|380:153,1,85,4|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
432,256,96405,1,8,0:0:0:0:
432,256,96536,1,0,0:0:0:0:
336,273,96666,2,0,P|314:249|293:198,1,85,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
258,95,96927,1,0,0:0:0:0:
201,178,97058,6,0,P|196:271|186:358,1,170,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
106,283,97449,2,0,P|100:246|98:192,1,85,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
7,204,97710,2,0,P|13:156|28:113,1,85,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
0,29,97971,2,0,L|89:28,1,85,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
126,131,98231,5,12,0:0:0:0:
103,34,98362,1,0,0:0:0:0:
221,105,98492,2,0,P|223:62|230:21,1,85,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
330,166,98753,6,8,L|489:150,2,135.99999584961,12|8|8,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
259,294,99275,6,0,P|252:247|250:202,1,85,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
330,166,99536,1,8,0:0:0:0:
330,166,99666,1,0,0:0:0:0:
171,294,99797,1,8,0:0:0:0:
14,209,99927,1,0,0:0:0:0:
14,209,99992,1,0,0:0:0:0:
14,209,100058,2,0,L|105:213,1,85,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
171,294,100318,5,8,0:0:0:0:
171,294,100449,1,0,0:0:0:0:
118,209,100579,2,0,P|113:167|111:95,1,85,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
178,49,100840,2,0,L|67:40,1,85,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
220,149,101101,1,8,0:0:0:0:
279,9,101231,1,0,0:0:0:0:
351,89,101362,6,0,L|462:80,1,85,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
408,199,101623,2,0,P|370:192|304:185,1,85,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
402,346,101884,2,0,P|382:321|335:277,1,85,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
237,239,102144,2,0,P|241:275|244:342,1,85,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
98,275,102405,6,0,P|94:239|91:172,1,85,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
13,82,102666,2,0,L|7:181,1,85,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
133,102,102927,2,0,L|127:15,1,85,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
92,191,103188,2,0,P|139:183|184:181,1,85,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
246,231,103449,6,0,L|254:132,1,85,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
229,41,103710,1,8,0:0:0:0:
322,108,103840,1,0,0:0:0:0:
389,41,103971,2,0,L|483:37,1,85,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
426,172,104231,2,10,L|434:121,3,42.5
405,192,104492,6,0,P|348:137|266:175,1,170,4|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
321,384,104884,2,0,P|325:283|331:211,1,170
233,323,105275,2,0,P|234:284|237:236,1,85,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
139,147,105536,6,0,L|148:238,1,85,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
61,77,105797,2,0,P|53:116|50:165,1,85,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
56,319,106058,2,0,L|148:308,1,85,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
209,226,106318,2,0,L|301:237,1,85,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
363,309,106579,6,2,L|376:251,7,42.5,8|2|2|2|2|2|2|2,0:0|0:0|0:0|0:0|0:0|0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
449,219,107101,2,2,L|436:161,7,42.5,8|2|2|2|2|2|2|2,0:0|0:0|0:0|0:0|0:0|0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
358,112,107623,5,4,0:0:0:0:
358,112,108666,5,8,0:0:0:0:
358,112,108797,2,0,P|324:80|288:35,1,85,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
202,85,109058,5,8,0:0:0:0:
202,85,109189,2,0,P|174:116|126:154,1,85,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
192,231,109449,5,8,0:0:0:0:
192,231,109580,2,0,P|227:263|255:292,1,85,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
353,274,109840,5,8,0:0:0:0:
353,274,109971,2,0,P|375:238|405:198,1,85,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
358,111,110231,6,0,L|482:125,1,85,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
276,196,110492,2,0,L|175:183,1,85,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
252,103,110753,6,0,L|249:19,2,85,8|8|0,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
371,210,111144,2,0,L|367:294,2,85,8|8|0,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
415,116,111536,2,0,L|330:121,1,85,8|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
228,131,111797,1,0,0:0:0:0:
371,210,111927,6,0,L|253:218,1,85,8|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
183,220,112188,1,0,0:0:0:0:
228,131,112318,6,2,L|222:57,3,42.5,0|2|2|2,1:0|0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
137,114,112579,2,2,L|133:185,3,42.5,0|2|2|2,1:0|0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
43,157,112840,5,8,0:0:0:0:
43,157,112971,2,0,L|55:270,1,85,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
156,340,113231,5,8,0:0:0:0:
156,340,113362,2,0,L|164:255,1,85,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
233,81,113623,5,8,0:0:0:0:
233,81,113754,2,0,L|245:194,1,85,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
326,330,114014,5,8,0:0:0:0:
326,330,114145,2,0,L|338:217,1,85,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
330,110,114405,5,8,0:0:0:0:
330,110,114536,1,8,0:0:0:0:
428,220,114666,1,8,0:0:0:0:
428,220,114797,1,8,0:0:0:0:
482,153,114927,6,0,P|436:134|384:151,1,85,8|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
302,218,115188,1,0,0:0:0:0:
435,304,115318,6,0,L|427:210,1,85,8|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
410,57,115579,1,0,0:0:0:0:
317,108,115710,6,0,P|274:99|213:80,1,85,8|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
147,34,115971,1,0,0:0:0:0:
248,181,116101,6,0,P|206:187|164:197,2,85,8|8|8,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
347,165,116492,1,8,0:0:0:0:
150,202,116623,1,8,0:0:0:0:
234,87,116753,1,8,0:0:0:0:
266,302,116884,1,8,0:0:0:0:

Yuii-

2,503 posts

Joined July 2013

Yuii- 2015-11-04T01:38:47+00:00

And so we discussed with Irreversible and MillhioreF about the last diff.

MillhioreF

2015-11-03 21:48 Yuii-: Hi, Azer! How are you doing, man? Give me just a minute and we can discuss about Azer's difficulty if you agree!
2015-11-03 21:49 MillhioreF: Mhm, sure - I do think most of the patterns are fine in isolaton, but there are definitely some weird difficulty spikes that shouldd probably be dealt with
2015-11-03 21:50 Yuii-: Yup, totally agree, we already discussed them with Irre, if you take them the difficulty goes from 7.7 to 7.0
2015-11-03 21:52 MillhioreF: I really think 00:24:666 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - ought to be nerfed too if we're nerfing other stuff, it's just silly for a relatively calm part of the song
2015-11-03 21:52 MillhioreF: and I don't really like the jump at 00:35:536 (6,1) - either
2015-11-03 21:54 Yuii-: Being honest 00:24:666 (1) - isn't such a big deal, if you pay attention to previous patterns, starting from 00:22:579 - you'll notice that the distance makes bigger as the time goes on
2015-11-03 21:55 MillhioreF: It might just be me but I can't play patterns like that at all (can't play genryuu kaiko really either)
2015-11-03 21:55 Yuii-: That means, he's trying to tell the player that the cursor should travel a further distance as the music continues in this part
2015-11-03 21:55 MillhioreF: maybe they're easier on tablet
2015-11-03 21:55 Yuii-: They are very intuitive, actually
2015-11-03 21:56 MillhioreF: Intuitive for reading but I just can't aim them at all even on halftime, even though I can aim the rest of the map with ht
2015-11-03 21:56 Yuii-: Now, they should be nerfed, anyway, why? 00:23:623 - 1.10x constant ds > 00:24:144 - 1.20x ds and then BAM BUM 00:24:666 - 1.5x
2015-11-03 21:56 Yuii-: 1/3 on 230 BPM is still pretty fast for pattern like these
2015-11-03 21:56 Yuii-: patterns*
2015-11-03 21:57 MillhioreF: Personally I'd rather change it to 1.00x DS -> 1.1x -> 1.25x
2015-11-03 21:57 MillhioreF: but I think changing the last one to 1.30x would be enough
2015-11-03 21:57 Yuii-: Yup, just to maintain the thing correctly
2015-11-03 21:57 Yuii-: Although your alternative works, too
2015-11-03 21:57 Yuii-: 00:33:014 - This shape could be improved a lot (I'd do something like this, for example)
2015-11-03 21:58 Yuii-: 00:36:405 - No need for an NC, my bad, too
2015-11-03 21:59 Yuii-: 00:42:666 (1,2) - This is just ridiculous, unnecessary, exaggerated
2015-11-03 21:59 Yuii-: If you delete everything from 00:41:884 - to 00:43:971 - SR goes from 7.7 to 7.1
2015-11-03 21:59 Yuii-: Just for 2 seconds
2015-11-03 22:00 MillhioreF: Yeah, I think that part would be fine with a 0.8x scale
2015-11-03 22:00 MillhioreF: the patterns themselves are cool
2015-11-03 22:00 Yuii-: Patterns are okay and they increase gradually
2015-11-03 22:00 Yuii-: Now, go to Nathan's diff
2015-11-03 22:00 Yuii-: 00:43:058 -
2015-11-03 22:01 Yuii-: There's a huge difference in terms of pretty much everything
2015-11-03 22:02 Yuii-: 01:24:014 (1,2,3) - This is a very nice and well-built triangle
2015-11-03 22:03 Yuii-: 01:38:753 (1,2,3,1) - I didn't see this before, but holy moly
2015-11-03 22:03 MillhioreF: I actually think that one's fine
2015-11-03 22:03 Yuii-: 01:41:884 (1,2,3,4) - Shouldn't these have a bigger spacing?
2015-11-03 22:04 MillhioreF: 01:23:492 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3) - does flow strangely though
2015-11-03 22:04 Yuii-: Yup, because they don't have any shape
2015-11-03 22:04 Yuii-: Those are known for being "counter-intuitive"
2015-11-03 22:05 Yuii-: You don't know what's gonna happen, so you are forced to make a complete weird movement
2015-11-03 22:05 MillhioreF: 01:46:579 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - this sounds like 1/3 to me too, not 1/4
2015-11-03 22:06 Yuii-: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/3911646 that can work, for example. You have 2 triangle-shapes but distance on 01:24:014 (1,2,3) - gets bigger, as he is building every pattern, it makes sense
2015-11-03 22:07 MillhioreF: I don't really like he flow into the next combo, and having triangles just sticking straight out like that is a bit bland, but I agree with the concept
2015-11-03 22:07 Yuii-: Thing is, it doesn't sound like a 1/3
2015-11-03 22:07 Yuii-: It IS a 1/3
2015-11-03 22:07 Yuii-: My bad, too
2015-11-03 22:07 Yuii-: I wasn't thinking on the next combo, tbh
2015-11-03 22:07 MillhioreF: yeah that needs to be fixed too
2015-11-03 22:08 MillhioreF: You should post this stuff in the thread

o

2015-11-03 16:32 Irreversible: ACTION is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/677938 penoreri - Everlasting Message [FINAL]]
2015-11-03 16:32 Irreversible: opinion? :O
2015-11-03 16:33 Yuii-: tbh, I couldn't mod that diff too good
2015-11-03 16:35 Yuii-: if you compare the spread
2015-11-03 16:35 Yuii-: you have B --- Nov -- Std -- Adv -- Exh --- INF -- Grv ------ FINAL
2015-11-03 16:35 Yuii-: Those jumps don't fit that much, there's no need to do them at all
2015-11-03 16:36 Irreversible: did you rank it?
2015-11-03 16:36 Irreversible:

2015-11-03 16:36 Yuii-: but he did 'em, and even though they could be nerfed, we've seen a lot of maps like these
2015-11-03 16:36 Yuii-: yup, after 3 checks
2015-11-03 16:36 Yuii-: I even suggested to add an adv
2015-11-03 16:36 Irreversible: 01:52:971 (2,3,4) - don't you think this is overmapped
2015-11-03 16:37 Yuii-: Let's IRC so we won't have any doubts
2015-11-03 16:37 Yuii-: That end is like 0.8 of SR
2015-11-03 16:38 Yuii-: 230 BPM triplets followed by jumps are too much
2015-11-03 16:38 Yuii-: but not overmapped, because there are 3 sounds on those notes
2015-11-03 16:39 Yuii-: and 01:52:971 (2,3) - are the strongest beats, somehow
2015-11-03 16:39 Yuii-: if you map doubles, but leave 01:53:101 (4) - outside it'll sound extremely bad
2015-11-03 16:40 Yuii-: mapping them in a different way won't work
2015-11-03 16:40 Yuii-: if you compare 01:52:058 (4) - with any of the triplets you'll notice how different they sound
2015-11-03 16:40 Yuii-: 01:52:058 (4) - has a beat only where it starts, whereas the triplets are justified with the background music
2015-11-03 16:41 Yuii-: should they be mapped? hella, no, they make the map super hard and has a very unwanted end
2015-11-03 16:41 Yuii-: is it unrankable? i don't think so
2015-11-03 16:42 Yuii-: the problem is 00:41:884 -
2015-11-03 16:43 Yuii-: The map goes from 7.7 to 7.1
2015-11-03 16:43 Yuii-: Just for that pattern
2015-11-03 16:43 Yuii-: 00:53:362 - because those are a group of 2, so they aren't bad and "intuitive" once you find out how the first one goes
2015-11-03 16:45 Yuii-: MillhioreF pointed out 00:24:666 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - on the DQ
2015-11-03 16:45 Yuii-: that's literally one of the easiest parts of the map
2015-11-03 16:45 Yuii-: because spacing starts increasing from 00:22:579 - so it plays """""""good"""""""
2015-11-03 16:46 Irreversible: 00:42:666 (1,2) -

My thoughts on this difficulty.

Many people would call the FINAL difficulty as something with "unreasonable and overdone spacing". Being honest, the map could be built way more different, but I'm not sure if that'd fit your style at all. There's an accentuation change in the music every pattern, so the jumps are more or less justified (though some of them really need to be nerfed) as well as you have some really low-spacing patterns that can have more spacing, too. If you read the IRCs, the problem of the map comes from 00:41:884 - and the end of it. For the first timestamp, the background music supports jumps only from 00:43:058 - onwards, that means that all those across-screen triangles must be nerfed or replaced with something else due to the fact that they are being quite "overmapped" and they don't fit with your previous patterns at all. Having jumps like that on a 230BPM song doesn't add any kind of difficulty, they only lead to annoyance, and make your map tedious to play. This is how you increase the overall star rating without adding any entertainment to the map. There are instances, where the spacing could and should be more consistent, mainly due to the fact that the music does not change, so neither should the spacing. Whilst there are other parts where the spacing should be lesser, I can even recall that there is no ""calm"" section at all in this map, just a constant cursor movement (can cause RSI (?). Speaking about the end of the map, for example, taking only the last two circles 01:56:753 (6,1) - you can hear (1) being very emphasised 'cause of the music, but there's no real difference compared to the previous pattern because the spacing is literally the same, so is quite unnoticeable without hitsounds.

Things that must (or should) be changed.

01:46:579 - 1/3.
01:23:492 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3) - Poor flow and counter-intuitive pattern.
00:24:666 (1) - Spoke with MillhioreF about this A LOT, and we got to the point this pattern should have a distance of 1.3x every object, for the sake of consistency with 00:23:623 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5) - .

Please, read carefully MillhioreF's and Irreversible's modding (even if Irreversible didn't say that much, it was just me explaining a couple of things about the triplets at the very end). We are open for any discussions you may have as we can improve the quality of this difficulty overall.
This is not a flame, by the way. This is just a criticism in order to improve the map's quality and making it the best as it should be!

@Millhi, that NC is on the IRC

Last edited by Yuii- 2015-11-05T21:40:28+00:00, edited 3 times in total.

MillhioreF

Pro Tester

5,004 posts

Joined July 2011

MillhioreF 2015-11-04T05:50:03+00:00

For what it's worth, I do like the patterns before the first kiai (00:41:883 to 00:43:840) but it's definitely a good point that they're way too extreme considering the music and even the rest of the map. Scaling the whole section by 0.8x and then adjusting individual notes for the sake of flow would be the simplest way to fix it, but just nerfing it in general would still be great.

A couple other suggestions that were brought up in IRC but not stated otherwise in Yuii-'s post:

00:35:536 (6,1) - I don't really like this particular jump because it forces your cursor to directly go against its momentum after the jump, which feels pretty bad.
00:36:405 (1) - Probably doesn't need an NC.
00:40:058 (1,2,3) - As long as you're nerfing the following section, it'd be a good idea to slightly lower the spacing on these triples too.
01:53:623 (1,2,3,4,1) - Not really a fan of the way this flows with the stack reversing direction.

Azer

World Cup Organiser

1,107 posts

Joined December 2012

Topic Starter

Azer 2015-11-04T07:01:38+00:00

Irre's mod has nothing but flame in it lol..

00:24:666 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - reduced to 1.3x
00:41:884 - 00:43:840 - reduced distance/remapped
01:23:492 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3) - remapped
01:46:579 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - in this part, the piano is 1/3 and the drums are 1/4

MillhioreF wrote:
00:35:536 (6,1) - I don't really like this particular jump because it forces your cursor to directly go against its momentum after the jump, which feels pretty bad. I think this is okay, it still has a circular motion but I've replaced the last circle with a slider so the transition is better
00:36:405 (1) - Probably doesn't need an NC. removed
00:40:058 (1,2,3) - As long as you're nerfing the following section, it'd be a good idea to slightly lower the spacing on these triples too.
01:53:623 (1,2,3,4,1) - Not really a fan of the way this flows with the stack reversing direction. I like this section, it plays fine

Okay I changed a lot of stuff in the entire section from 00:39:797 to the end of the first kiai. It's pretty hard to fix it to a point where I'm satisfied with the flow as this has been mapped a while back but hopefully it plays a little better now. SR is down to 7.17 LOL

Musty

2,246 posts

Joined February 2010

Musty 2015-11-04T20:09:36+00:00

wow Irre you're so mean, the mapping in itself is awesome imo, it is not exaggerated at all.. Actually if THIS is exaggerated, then many recently RANKED maps are exaggerated aswell (that is quite an easy point though). It fits the insanity of the song and it plays REALLY smooth so i don't get why you guys say it is "pp map" or "exaggerated" while it actually has difficulty..

Monstrata

Elite Mapper: Aspirant

4,642 posts

Joined May 2013

Monstrata 2015-11-05T21:26:01+00:00

Just saying, but if you're going to call a 7.67 star diff a "pp map" you might as well start calling Mazzerin a pp mapper too lol.

Some thoughts about this unhealthy concept of labelling 6+ star maps as "mapping for difficulty"

It's undeniable that some patterns are simply exaggerated. But that's also part of the charm of making difficult maps. This is a fundamentally a game, and many people, regardless of the game they are playing, derive fun from playing things that challenge them.

Deleting "exaggerated parts" to "reduce the star rating" isn't the way to go imo. Just because a pattern plays poorly doesn't necessarily mean it needs to be nerfed. It could simply mean that jump angles and flow could be improved. If you think about it, scaling down the spacing of jumps won't always fix playability issues, especially when the core of the issue lies in poor flow/pattern transition. The pattern still plays relatively the same in terms of motion, you just move a bit less lol.

Sorry I was a bit busy last few days so I didn't get to write down my thoughts before all these changes were made xP.

I agree with the spacing issues on Julie's Advanced though. Mentioned some in my initial mod too haha.

Irreversible

osu! Alumni

4,315 posts

Joined December 2011

Irreversible 2015-11-05T21:33:11+00:00

Azer wrote:
Irre's mod has nothing but flame in it lol..

00:24:666 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - reduced to 1.3x
00:41:884 - 00:43:840 - reduced distance/remapped
01:23:492 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3) - remapped
01:46:579 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - in this part, the piano is 1/3 and the drums are 1/4
MillhioreF wrote:
00:35:536 (6,1) - I don't really like this particular jump because it forces your cursor to directly go against its momentum after the jump, which feels pretty bad. I think this is okay, it still has a circular motion but I've replaced the last circle with a slider so the transition is better
00:36:405 (1) - Probably doesn't need an NC. removed
00:40:058 (1,2,3) - As long as you're nerfing the following section, it'd be a good idea to slightly lower the spacing on these triples too.
01:53:623 (1,2,3,4,1) - Not really a fan of the way this flows with the stack reversing direction. I like this section, it plays fine
Okay I changed a lot of stuff in the entire section from 00:39:797 to the end of the first kiai. It's pretty hard to fix it to a point where I'm satisfied with the flow as this has been mapped a while back but hopefully it plays a little better now. SR is down to 7.17 LOL

Yeah, gotta apologize for the flame but I was in a really bad mood, and seeing that the map as well used that big jumps kinda gave me the rest (because of some other maps). I have to admit: the map is well emphasized to the song, but it was honestly the jumps who made me cringe. (and it was not me who said it's a mod)

I'm glad you were able to reduce the big jumps, especially the one before the first kiai (iirc it was the biggest jump in the map?)

Something about the PP - Patterns: If they follow the song well, there's nothing against it, but this just was exaggerated, I don't think we need to deny this. However, if a map spikes SO much just because of some patterns, something's gotta be wrong in my opinion.

I hope that cleared things up, good luck with your map!

Azer

World Cup Organiser

1,107 posts

Joined December 2012

Topic Starter

Azer 2015-11-09T22:07:57+00:00

Alright sorry for the delay, updated julie's diff.

Monstrata

Elite Mapper: Aspirant

4,642 posts

Joined May 2013

Monstrata 2015-11-17T08:36:10+00:00

Hi, Azer! How are you doing, man?

We fixed some snapping issues on Standard/Exhaust/Gravity and some nazi stuff on Final

Time to move this forward again!

Yuii-

2,503 posts

Joined July 2013

Yuii- 2015-11-17T21:41:06+00:00

Hi, Azer! How are you doing, man?

This will never stop

FINAL

00:22:579 (1,2) - 00:23:101 (1,2) - Would like to discuss about these two patterns in particular. The first one being quite far away and finishing on the opposite side of the following object; and the second pattern the distance between each object is... wow, actually very surprising for this stream-y part.
00:34:058 (2) - NC maybe? Readability.

Yuii-

2,503 posts

Joined July 2013

Yuii- 2015-11-17T23:52:48+00:00

Hi, Az- he is fine.

Did a talk, let's try it again. v2

Nathan

Beatmap Nominator

2,144 posts

Joined August 2014

Nathan 2015-11-18T00:01:35+00:00

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Yuii- wrote:

monstrata wrote:

Liiraye wrote:

Yuii- wrote:

monstrata wrote:

Histoire wrote:

MillhioreF wrote:

MillhioreF wrote:

Azer wrote:

MillhioreF wrote:

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