juankristal wrote:

So, the insane part looks cool so let leave that as resolved already.

For the ending, I guess your arguments are fair. I understasnd your point of FC with ease by spamming and I find it fair enough to let it as it is.

Although, I think that if you ended up changing that ending you should stay consistent with the rest, I know the change hurts and it might be against your ideals, but hey, you can keep up the difficulty level of the ending into the other parts too.

So lets mark all the long jacks that are questionable:

02:07:880 (127880|6,127880|4,127969|6,127969|4,128057|4,128057|6,128145|4,128145|6) - Just doing a ctrl+h here to split the 8 note jack into 2 different 4 blocks should be good enough for players to still take it as a challenge yet not be completely out of place compared to the rest of the chart.

02:14:233 - For this section, I think using blocks of 2 jacks each would be the best idea to go. Think it this way, if the ending is supposed to be the harder part of the map then this should have somewhat of an easier pattering and having an extended lenght of 2 jack blocks is probably a good setup for the harder ending. Other options are also viable such as separating it into 3 blocks of 4 jacks or doing something like the ending but in an easier scale.

02:25:527 - Same thing should apply here, in fact, if you want to make the players have to deal with a challenge you could have something a bit different or some sort of deviation of the previous suggestion/ending since at the end of the day, if all the patterns work the same "way" as in, they have the same strucutre, it would target just a specific term of playstyle but you can very well test it in different ways avoiding pattern repetition if that makes sense.


This would also sorta fix the gap between insane and infection difficulties which were kinda huge even before the first change ever.

when did I say I was going to rebubble this mfw, anyways, dont worry about that

Soul Evans wrote:

Yeah you pretty much made it worse man

There is alot of ways to do the ending better than what you did but oh well.
i'd like your point modding later cause i rejected juankristal's point ending part cause 'too easy' with simply spam

The fact this is now underrated also makes me kinda sad,
it doesn't matter to me. (SR is a crap and easy to abuse)

especially since the jacks for some sections aren't consistent at all with the ending, and you raised HP now i think?
im already out of idea pattern and try to avoid use 'space' column note, definitely i would reject it, HP? yes for anti-spam

anyways, i'd rather fail the old version with an S than playing this new one, not saying the old one was perfect and all, but you had done it in a way that's not as better as the old one, which is why i'm gonna take some time modding this later or talk to you about it and what not.
older version was easier to fc than latest you need to reading skill to jack'em perfectly. let's hear your modding later.

-Kamikaze- wrote:

star rating is destryoing this game, no joke lmao
people only care about it nowadays, and that's sad

I support the HP raise as well, just 10 pesos this time

AncuL wrote:

knowing the diff have a part with super long jacks (02:25:527 - ), i think it'd be better if the ending is made around that kind of difficulty becasuse imo the ending should be the hardest part of the game (nerfing that long jack part is also quite alright if you want to separate it into 3 4-note long jacks)

ExPew wrote:

i think current ending part already hardest i made, cause you cannot simply spam when note jack column keep changing. ( obviously you will get '50 or miss' )

Another Lie wrote:

Maybe a bit suggestion after conflict ends. I'm shocked when i updated the new ver, oh god 9.6HP T_T
Feel free to do as you wish for my suggestion

Infection

01:06:116 (66116|4,66160|5,66204|6,66248|4,66292|2,66336|0,66380|1,66425|2) - maybe you could make it like this or reversed ver of these notes 02:13:880 (133880|2,133925|0,133969|2,134013|0,134057|4,134101|6,134145|4,134189|6) -
i feel this original is pretty harder to read because of 01:06:248 (66248|4,66292|2) - i thought you were separating them by 4 notes [i mean 2 notes in 2 column] but i was mistaken. All fixed, but hey i didn't expect this pattern can do well lol

I'm looking forward for your re-bubble

AncuL wrote:

ExPew wrote:

i think current ending part already hardest i made, cause you cannot simply spam when note jack column keep changing. ( obviously you will get '50 or miss' )

my score
here's some replay if necessary
there you can see where i do better and where i do worse. i managed to 300 on many notes at the ending while i struggle from having misses on the long jacks. well yeah i can't do jacks for more than 4 notes straight but if you aim this to be played by players who plays 6-7 star maps, don't expect them to really spam the ending because they won't.
if they won't, then they can read the pattern together with jack very well. the different is previously part is not to use your reading skills. so yeah you can full force on your jack skills.
my suggestion would be to use longer jacks (4-6 notes) but still keeping the "hard-to-spam" nature to the pattern because currently the longest jack on the ending is just two notes long jack and it's not that hard to nail
if ending part you think easier, i think previously part jack is easier to me. Fair right?

and hey it's just my suggestion feel free to deny

juankristal wrote:

Not really, I gave my opinion already but besides the ending, nothing changed. I saw some people trying to mod this and they got shut down by a negative attitude so no big news there either.

I am still against the long 12/10 note jack so there isnt much I can really express anymore about it. I am keeping my veto on this one because of it and I am not really on the mood to keep modding this. Since the rules allowes you to re-bubble this since this is not STD just go ahead and do it (there should be another time to talk about that specific rule to rework it so vetoing actually makes some sense lol).
did you read post on 22 days ago? or you just don't want to see it? i've told you how the music work able to follow (as long they're not abused). the main issue has been fixed looong ago due to ending jack part is was 'retarded' you said. and then you're trying to nerf everything related with music now. lol

I still think it doesnt really make sense to map something hard because you can map it hard and there are like a small part of the playerbase who is actually able to play it but oh well. Might this be the reason to start mapping really bullshit stuff for real from now on :p
same reason i said before i might not explain here anymore :facepalm:. if you think this map is bullshit because of jack style. think about it with someone already abuse it with other style.I don't want to say anymore and i just you want think before act

I support the HP raise tho, because it makes more sense for the playerbase you are aiming for.

juankristal wrote:

Isnt a Veto being against something thats happening? I mean yeah, its probably more extreme than that but again, this is not something I think deserves to be ranked at this state for reasons that I already pointed out. I understand tho that you are mad at me because I took to long to even give a reply to this (and yeah, I am sorry for that, not even going to give an excuse tbh)

You using your own mindsets to answer my complains wont change my mind on this which is why I am keeping the veto on it. About your post on Memoria its your fault for not doing the veto if you felt it was overmapped or wrong/bad/anything. Thats why the veto exists, its about something being subjective.

I wasnt even going to rebubble this at all since the very first post because I dont want to icon this.
That's what I want to know, you can at least say it directly from one month ago though, but thanks.

And again, me being on Veto against this doesnt mean he cant rank this anymore. Absolutely the opposite, prove me wrong that the community really supports and wants this and get the BNs needed to get this ranked still and then I would have to eat my words (which again, is part of how the veto works, finding an agreement or finding more people who supports what it is).
The whole community, every single people in the community are against this or something? I can see there are still people against this map, which make them feel uncomfortable to their gameplay, they can come up with an arguement and all we can do is to reply to it with reason why to keep or change it. But yet, there are also people are supporting this map. We're not always right, so does you, veto is means to make an arguement to the best opinion, but yet, you can't just force them to change it to your veto and igroned all of ExPew's reply why he keep it.
Or you're the leader of osu!mania community that you know everyone against this map (?)


Expew: Using "jack style" doesnt mean you have to use an overdone amount of them. You could very well keep that jack style and make it so your map is still challenging (and even harder actually) without using the [57] repetition jack over there. Or even so, if you are claiming to be using a "jack style" you could very well apply it to the whole map and not just to the ending to spike the hell out of it in that specific style. Beside the fact of the intro being so undermapped overall as well. I could just state the same I stated multiple times but its not worth it.
He already changed new patterns and you guys still not satisfied? Cheeee...
The fact that there is the feeling on some parts which is better to make with easy patterns and yet, to comfortable with music itself and a little warm-up to the players! Not every parts need to be hard just because it's an Extra diff. Not every single sound you need to presents it with a note.

Finally, what the kek went up with stepmania on your thread KK, I am seriously confused.
Confused

Sleep time, in case you still want to talk about this later I will take a while to answer.

juankristal wrote:

Isnt a Veto being against something thats happening? I mean yeah, its probably more extreme than that but again, this is not something I think deserves to be ranked at this state for reasons that I already pointed out. I understand tho that you are mad at me because I took to long to even give a reply to this (and yeah, I am sorry for that, not even going to give an excuse tbh)

You using your own mindsets to answer my complains wont change my mind on this which is why I am keeping the veto on it. About your post on Memoria its your fault for not doing the veto if you felt it was overmapped or wrong/bad/anything. Thats why the veto exists, its about something being subjective.
is it part of your fault too? you also appear on that thread why not veto it by yourself? meh nvm, something comes up to me about veto, nice rule :>.

I wasnt even going to rebubble this at all since the very first post because I dont want to icon this.
okay :>.

And again, me being on Veto against this doesnt mean he cant rank this anymore. Absolutely the opposite, prove me wrong that the community really supports and wants this and get the BNs needed to get this ranked still and then I would have to eat my words (which again, is part of how the veto works, finding an agreement or finding more people who supports what it is).
first of thing, im not type to find attention or advertise my map to get support (at least the 'favorite' considered as support my map and i'm very grateful to them). they free will to support or not to support. Can you clarify 'the community' support but they didn't give any feedback on the thread to ensure your support? i'd like their 'complains' what are they thinking.


Expew: Using "jack style" doesnt mean you have to use an overdone amount of them. You could very well keep that jack style and make it so your map is still challenging (and even harder actually) without using the [57] repetition jack over there. Or even so, if you are claiming to be using a "jack style" you could very well apply it to the whole map and not just to the ending to spike the hell out of it in that specific style.
i don't get what the hell are you talking about. did i fixed it ending jack and replied your mod post with my reason? just i want to know WHY you don't accept on music instrument follow or pitch on certain parts in short time? it's not claim as jackstyle just you said but this music is able to use jack pattern. btw ,check latest update please. (you're argue about 3 months ago ending jack pattern)

??? ???

Beside the fact of the intro being so undermapped overall as well. I could just state the same I stated multiple times but its not worth it.
???????????????????
so what's the problem with undermapped/underrate? isnt this chart is quite clear easy to read? it's worth current SR with current pattern instead of chordmashstreamteleportstarabuseblablabla you support it. In fact, you're PP lover.


Finally, what the kek went up with stepmania on your thread KK, I am seriously confused.

Sleep time, in case you still want to talk about this later I will take a while to answer.

Soul Evans wrote:

Hopefully, after this the set can go to qualify soon, sorry for the big delay

Soul's Modding

1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 / 7

General

1. BPM: Okay
2. Offset: Okay
3. AiMod: Okay
4. Tags: Okay
5. BG: Okay
6. Kiai: Okay
7. Metadata: Okay
8. Folder’s problem: None
9. Hitsound: Okay
10. Timing: Okay
11. Other: Okay
    [Infection]
12. 00:09:469 (9469|0,9469|2,9645|2,9645|0,9822|1,9998|0,10175|1,10351|2,10351|0,10527|2,10704|0,10704|1,10880|1,10880|2,11057|1,11057|0) - I kinda urge you to change this, seems a bit left hand bias and everything went smooth until arrange of patterns came up, felt really weird in comparison, i think you can move a few notes to the right side, especially this 00:10:527 (10527|2,10704|0,10704|1,10880|2,10880|1,11057|0,11057|1) - i don't know you expect to fill whole column and make it more balance but the pitch goes well so it's fine. changed some pattern make it inverted
    
13. 00:12:116 - to 00:12:380 - i think you can add a bit of 1/4 to give it a more effect, since last ones had notes in them and i personally think it would be a good idea doing so. i rather let it single instrument on this part to make it ending spot before going to new chorus
    
14. 00:12:822 - This leaves a bit of opportunity for mapping either the 1/2 i'm hearing above, or making the 3 note chord have LNs in them, they fit your style and the type of rhythm i'm hearing would make it work out nicely, i think you should go with it for more fun ideas. it's not going well adding LNs when you facing new chorus of the music.
    
15. 00:31:175 (31175|2,31175|0,31175|4) - So i was thinking this could be a bit at the right column so that it could be more pitch relevant hmm, kinda bit not feeling well if moving on right column
    
16. 00:32:057 - For some reason this comes off as mindblocky, not really an issue per-say but i feel like you could think of a pattern that plays out nicely and smoothly overall to counter the beginning SVs currently something like?? can give me any suggestion pattern?
    
17. 00:32:586 (32586|0,32939|0,33292|0,33645|0,33998|0,34351|0,34704|0,35057|0) - Is there something you can do to break these 1/1s? i feel like it's giving more work to the left hand and not really giving proper balance, hence it's a bit of a hindrance. changed a bit
    
18. 00:33:998 (33998|4) - you know, this sound you're following feels like 3-sounds more than 1 long one, which is why there are notes in the 1/2 but i thought you could do something different (and more creative) for it. im trying not to use too much note instrument on playfield cause getting messy as intro part, for the beginning of the music let the note follow each instrument. (something like 1 note = 1 instrument )
    
19. 00:34:704 (34704|5,34880|5) - I don't like how this plays out for the middle finger, especially with the LN and the pattern the player has to face infront, so i want you to move it to the index finger or reverse it with the LN i guess, because it felt awkward to hit. guess i already change this part according your point at 00:32:586 -
    
20. 00:35:057 - Now i don't understand why this is a 4 note chord when the others were 3, i know you used it for the fact it's not with an LN attached or that you are mixing it with the violin sound the 1/4 is using, but i find it limiting considering you can make the 1/4 consistent with the 1/2 here 00:35:233 (35233|3,35233|1) - these are 2 note chords while the blue ticks on 1/4 are 1 when they are both the same sound, so you can limit the 4-note to be 3 note instead and make the blue ticks be chords instead of one, much more consistent that way, rather than something unbalanced. ahaha, why suddenly 4 notes also idk but yeah i remove as unknown note instrument without hitsound
    
21. 00:35:410 (35410|2,36116|6) - How about you make these notes i highlighted short 1/4 LNs? it follows the theme and give it more spice and consistency which sounds pretty good to me. and i highlighted it so it can be Pitch relevant. sorry im not making 1/4 ln on this part
    
22. 00:40:880 (40880|1) - tbh, this is giving a stack that isn't really good or give the original feeling the upper pattern is giving, which is why i recommend moving it to the 7th column, it should also be more pitch relevant that way leaving the fuss of the current problem, also worth noting that 00:40:704 (40704|4,40880|3) - should be reversed maybe, so that it can also follow PR correctly. reversed pitch also acceptable
    
23. 00:43:351 - this is the same as the intro with the short 1/4 LNs so why isn't it the same? i recommend doing that. re-add
    
24. 00:44:233 - 00:44:939 - 00:45:645 - should be 3 note chords, the same as you did earlier so i don't get how they are regular bracket chords. it's different on current chorus with less music stuff, there only has 2 sounds on basic and no melody/violin here. when adding a note, it turns to a ghost note
    
25. 00:46:351 - same for this, this use to be 4 note chords but now it's 2 notes like the one earlier? ^
    
26. 00:48:292 - I was thinking of a fun idea for this, how about you make these into 1/4 LN? it would make it alot more interesting and fit the theme, imo. i don't want to add 1/4 ln on this specific time
    
27. 00:52:351 - This is probably the most awkward and weird part of the entire map, (yes even weirder than the ending) this is what i am mostly complaining about, no matter how much i retry it it's always hard to weird, always hard to execute, plays out poorly and has nothing consistent about it's patterns, most of the jacks are long and aren't mini ones like displayed here, and you haven't added short LNs for consistency too, you might have you proper justification for it but i consider it improper for what it is, and a difficulty spike at that, why mix streams with mini jacks? does it follow the same pitch you make for jacks properly? why does the ending have chord jack when the second one below it have 1 for each mini jack? it's not the same thing i recognize with your style and pattern scheme, i can suggest you change it with better execution for the jacks and more flow for the patterns, also be sure to use LNs or short ones, alot of opportunity to use those too. it's just how i feel it, and sorry for the rant but it's my most detestable part, haha. already discuss this reason why i remain now
    
28. 00:54:645 - maybe adding short 1/4 LNs for the guitar sound i'm hearing would be more appropriate? not guitar, it's kinda deep drum which added 1/4 normal note.
    
29. 00:55:175 - with sections like these too. I think you can make the section a bit more fun and consistent to the pattern scheme making them 1/4 short LNs wait, does this part has 1/4? i cant hear it
    
30. 01:08:586 (68586|4,68763|0) - If you're trying out PR like the previous ones, i was thinking you could probably reverse these for a more accurate pitch. following correct pitch might break your quality patterns, remember that.
    
31. 01:15:645 (75645|6,75998|4) - I feel like these shouldn't be 2 LNs, feel like it should be 4, why limiting it to only regular notes for the rest of the split? yes, the regular note beside LN is rest of violin note, its my mapping like
    
32. 01:16:351 - I'm not so sure about these since i can't hear it properly but it sounds very similar to the intro LNs like the ones at 00:25:527 - Etc. Which is why i recommend making it something more consistent like those, it seemed to work that time and it's very nice to play in, pretty good! yeah you noticed that, i was refer from that timeline . i fix the pattern bit here make more consistent
    
33. 01:17:763 - So, i'm not sure this section in-particular has a specific purpose here, the 1/4 LNs here while it is technically okay it seemed dull, like not interesting compared to the rest of the map, i can say that i can here 1/2s that could be LNs that may end up a bit more interesting (ofcourse you can still keep the 1/4 if you decided to add 1/2s) and i could recommend also to make it more Pitch relevant, but it depends entirely on whether you want to make the section more interesting by working on it or not, but i'd still thing it's a good idea. only this part i release for 1/4 LNs which good way to follow it as epic chorus.
    
34. 01:21:998 - Poor you, they made you change the LN shield didn't they? i thought it was interesting but i guess when you look at it in different comparison mainly consistency it could be an issue, but fear not! i was thinking of maybe you can do your LN style for it, remember the white columns? how about you do something like that to rearrange it? it could work, i remember something in your ANiMA diff that contained something like that so it would work like that too. that LN still too early for our ages of osumania rn, so i remapped again make it easier
    
35. 01:23:410 - Same thing as i said about it above i guess, pretty much a more optimal idea, but this is a test of determination on how badly you want to bother yourself to improve the map's pliability's side. ^
    
36. 01:26:233 - Well to be fair, this isn't the same one earlier which i'm not fond of, it's pretty different and i wouldn't know if it's consistent so whichever option you went with i could recommend going with what you did earlier. kawawa recommend me this pattern, i did last part was a mess
    
37. 01:27:645 (87645|4,87645|6,87998|4,87998|6,88175|6,88175|4,88351|6,88351|4) - Okay, what i have to say about this is that it's weird, it's inconsistent a bit and i can hear difference in pitch so why keep it the same columns? try varying it a bit. isn't same sound? to make it vary could eat some column spacing.
    
38. 01:34:704 - My only complaint about this is that it's on an odd column compared to the rest of the jacks, you should make it in an even column so it would be symmetrical enough and also consistent/ better pliability aswell, maybe the columns like the ones at 00:22:704 - would work. this current column works better cause if i move it to 2 and 6 it will affect of this note 01:34:527 (94527|1) - if you point playability
    
39. 01:38:939 - this could feel more like a stack rather than ascending notes to pitch, it should leave the pattern scheming better too. make it stack
    
    
40. 01:40:351 (100351|5,100439|5,100704|4,100792|4,101057|5,101145|5) - I don't find this really consistent with your theme, however i thought making these bracket mini jacks would suit the map more, so the ones i highlighted move them by one column to the left (as in column 5 4 5) moved them
    
41. 01:44:057 (104057|4,104145|3,104233|2,104322|3,104410|4,104498|3) - there should be a more proper ladder pattern for this that doesn't revolve around the middle column and that it could follow pitch in a good manner too, so i'm suggesting that rearranged
    
42. 02:02:939 - Honestly this could be varied a bit, and my opinion on it is that it's dull and too bland for my taste, and you could make them a bit varied or you could use LNs for it or SVs that would probably suit it better. nice idea, lets have a try
    
43. 02:03:822 - Ok so, my complaint about this section is that the whole LNs feel awkward, like the previous LNs felt a good wonky feeling, while this one felt a bad wonky feeling, i feel like this section could have been better in terms of pliability, because something like 02:05:410 (125410|0,125586|1,125586|0,125763|0,125763|1,125763|2) - is pretty awkward and hand bias towards the section, and you can make it a bit Pitch relevant, but if this is your only reason for it then i heavily suggest you reconsider, never ever sacrifice pliability for PR, and you told me that, remember? i really would like giving you ideas about this but i don't want to because i don't want to ruin your vision and style for the map, your patterns are unique and i want it to stay but you need to take the good part of your style and separate it from these sorts of patterns, hope you make the right decision pew. this is 2015 pattern, i can't be a good like i was active before..to modify this pattern im all out already. mentioning about PR was my terms but don't overdo or will suffer your patterns. i change move little gap of this LN to make it easier play 02:04:880 - 02:05:586 -
    
44. 02:07:175 - now this felt rather odd to me because it sounded very similar to 00:35:410 - so i was thinking going back to that would be a better idea overall for consistency and better pattern choice (man i really love the first patterns felt really fun) it's totally different on the past lelel
    
45. 02:13:704 (133704|1,133792|1,133880|2,133925|1,134013|2) - This is very awkward and it's really hard and feels uncomfortable to hit, i can recommend changing the pattern scheme for the 3 note ladder overall, something like http://puu.sh/vWYjs/072b2d4419.png could work too. your img has some trouble on middle note before jack parts would affect/interrupt your mashing . got another idea? this current pattern already fit 3 notes on right column
    
46. 02:15:645 - This actually felt more awkward than the previous one, and uncomfortable to hit, especially when you hit the notes on top of LNs like that, which i think can be improved to be more playable and have pitch relevancy too, this is just some ideas i have but you should try and find good ways to remap it with the white columns for your style of mapping. remap is too absurd way , this pattern quite similar at 02:04:351 - if you found it, and shorten LN strings due cover with clap/snare note make it more brilliant gameplay this kind of pattern.
    
47. 02:17:939 - also i don't know if i mentioned it before, but i can tell this could be better being either 1/2 or 1/4 LNs more rather than regular notes, making it have more LNs would be better for the pattern scheme of things, which is something i advise you to do for the map more. violin already took as LN, so let the melody stay remain as normal note
    
48. 02:19:175 - Now about this, i don't want to give you an essay about changing it but i want to ask you a question, do you think this is the best pattern you can represent the 1/8 with? is this pattern really anti use for farmers trying to pass this map? is it in anyway a suitable match for this map and patterns you displayed and the own mapping style you are using? if you don't think that, then try thinking really hard on what you can possibly do to turn it into a non bland spam-able pattern, while you think that making it into that pattern for pliability, this is actually pretty rush-able but people can still spam it, so you should ask around or experiment, please consider this as it's one of the crucial part for the map. if you have another idea for 2notes 1/8 pattern? however there's a trick you could able to fc this part. just spam it and don't look them like a stair.
    
49. 02:32:586 (152586|5) - This probably doesn't matter but i think it plays out a bit nicely if it was on the 4th column. moved
    
50. 02:32:939 - Now, about the ending, if you want to make the chart difficult for spammers you should be focusing on making the jacks more diverse in patterning instead of the same ones on some columns because if anything that gives the spammers an advantage, people suggested you to use the right jack left jack one but you didn't like it, but if you should find something more consistent with the long jack theme and also un spammable for the players, i can only think about this, you should really sit and think about it for a while, this would be the way players would be satisfied with how the ending played out, you should really consider possibilities, and i hope you wont let me down expew, show them how skilled in creative thinking you really are!. i guess i did same explain to someone else this part the reason why i did anti spam note at ending part and im not going to say it here , here read this conversation p/5948240.
    

Well, hope this helped 'w'
And if you decided about the ending and the 1/8 stream, you should return the original HP to how it was considering you made it harder, i put alot of effort into modding this to be suitable and at the same time not spam-able for players, hope we can see this set be in the ranked section soon buddy~

Ryzen wrote:

Mod from nowhere

Infection

01:07:969 (67969|3) - should be on 1/8? 01:08:013 - wait confirm by someone since i don't have headset rn
01:08:101 - missed something here? there's no sound here,
01:08:675 (68675|1) - should be on 1/8? 01:08:719 - same problem

Maybe consider reduce the max Jack from 12 to 10. This map shouldn't be like Another Lie's Beethoven [he's doing jack like your old ver of infection]

Kuo Kyoka wrote:

Ikuzo! Ikuzo!!

NXTKitKat wrote:

Random star shooting because I love this map

Critical_Star wrote:

merry christmas flomas
i really want to give this a go, here are just a little suggestion about last diff.
lower diff are good to me.

Infection

about the jacking part at 02:32:939 - i do think is kinda hard to hit them properly.
my suggestion > here
i think u can get the concept of the jack part here at 3-5 col
it still feel nice while keeping your jack intention here