updated for revert back with 24jacks
will edit later this post after check all modders
EDIT 2 : this post may be late.
will edit later this post after check all modders
EDIT 2 : this post may be late.
riktoi wrote:
01:57:844 - Considering the sound starts playing here the first roll should start here too. Also, since the first piano roll is faster than the others I'm pretty sure it should start with a 1/16 roll and then everything after that be 1/8. Making this comfortable might be hard but it's not exactly what you're going for with this chart anyway.
Fixed, need to confirm where the sound starts with the current update. I use stable 1/8 to play for 1 second piano roll.
00:53:057 (53057|4,53057|0,53145|2,53145|6,53233|4,53233|0,53322|6,53322|2,53410|4,53410|0,53498|6,53498|2) - If we're talking pitch relevancy, aren't these technically incorrect? since you have 6 note jacks somewhere else in the chart I don't think they would hurt too badly here. I respect your structuring so you probably know better here.
yeah, you're right. however it's quite overdone when the music going from the beginning to the middle chorus and make slight gap difficult jump here.
01:06:116 (66116|4,66160|3,66204|2,66248|1,66292|6,66336|5,66380|4,66425|3) - This is probably also about comfort. As someone who doesn't really play 7k I can't really tell how hard something is (since I can't play it) but at least I can check pitch relevancy. So, at 01:06:292 - the sound "changes", so I feel the roll could go into the opposite direction as the roll before does.
your point about 'sound changes' based on pitch, so i re-arranged to 'quick S' stair pattern. hopefully this problem is solved for you and others
01:10:704 - 01:11:410 - I feel like this section is a bit inconsistent with the jacks. 01:10:704 (70704|4,70704|0,70792|2) - this pattern and 01:10:880 (70880|0,70969|0) - do follow the same sound but they are charted differently. The pitch does change but there's no noticeable audio cue to justify this kind of change I suppose.
i think i already make minijack '2 by 2' on the violin sounds last time, well i got lots of feedback from here that it needs some slight nerf. i decided to make 12 11 12 11 lowest as slight stair and jack.
01:52:395 - If you wanted you could have a 1/8 snapped note here
Kuo confirm it for me on this snap
I think the ending currently follows pitch very nicely and it also gives it a bit more difficulty apart from just being raw speed. Good luck!
Soul Evans wrote:
Soul's random Modding
1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 / 7General
- BPM: Okay
- Offset: Okay
- AiMod: Okay
- Tags: Okay
- BG: Okay
- Kiai: Okay
- Metadata: Okay
- Folder’s problem: None
- Hitsound: Okay
- Timing: Okay
- Other: Okay
[Infection]- 00:18:469 (18469|0) - why does this note that's part of the chord interfering with the jacks? no need to add an extra jack note it doesn't follow rythm and makes the jack unbalanced, so i would move that
oops, i went overboard. fixed.- 00:23:233 (23233|2,23233|6,23322|6,23322|2) - This doesn't play out smoothly in a way, not that jack by itself but how much it messes up so i might move those two in the middle, would turn out quite good i guess
fixed, makes more balance pattern.- 00:30:469 - why don't you make this have two lns instead of one for the beat that's being louder than the earlier beat? i think it would play out nice to make the player feel the music more
i don't think of making 2 lns here, they have their own specific melody itself- 00:25:527 (25527|2) - This might be better off on column 1, i mean, it feels unbalanced for me personally, and think it would be a better pattern intro for the LNs
someone already pointed that this part is quite a mess. i think, i need to rework on this measure line ( im not sure for some improvement or remain as usual )- 00:30:469 - same here, like i said about it earlier
??? ???- 00:32:057 - I was thinking about maybe adding lns to this to fit the theme of map more and to represent the instrument beat i am hearing
looks good and more fit on the rest of 1/4 LNs (ill fix the 1/2LN later on this chorus)- 00:36:292 - why does this pattern have to be the same as the one before it? when i was playing it i was expecting a jack so maybe move it to other cols would be better to make it have more variety to make it more fun!
slight changes following the rhythm changes at 00:36:292 -- 00:38:057 (38057|2) - i kinda feel like this LN should extend to here 00:38:057 (38057|2) - it just feels awkward to me so i'm not sure.
actually, i don't want to. it feels a little weird- 00:39:469 - same here ^
- 00:57:910 (57910|2,57998|2) - maybe try avoiding this
moved the LN to 1st column, kinda feels little weird.- 01:00:822 - I think there should be a 3rd jack here, the sound supports it i think
nope, i'll just switch the LNs on other column- 01:06:998 - why not make these violin sounds LN? think it would be more consistent that way
add short lns i love them pls- 01:09:645 - ^
i can't make a suitable 1/4 LN here for this part sounds. so i decided to switch to normal note here. and other next part. i'll changed to LNs ( kinda tricky lol )- 01:16:880 (76880|4,76969|6,77057|3,77145|6) - If you could just, find a way these don't touch each other it would be extremely fun to play through this i trust you know how to change it sine you're expew after all! : )
im planning to make it like this, however that note that was highlighted makes some major error http://puu.sh/tsFQN/92024d0ac1.jpg .
im going to remap this part ( if you disagree with new changes, i'd like to see your suggestion)- 01:27:645 - maybe you should add an ln for the scream (?) up until here 01:28:704 -
i don't need a scream sound here. it's fine- 01:32:939 - i think you should add a note here, since it follows up the rest of the beats and it would be more consistent
there a melody sound i followed, and no kick sound here.- 01:40:351 - is there a way to switch the jacks? it's unbalancing so i think it could be better to swap cols around
changed to more easier gameplay- 02:01:527 (121527|5,121527|6,121616|6,121616|5,121704|5,121704|6,121792|6,121792|5,121880|5,121880|6,121969|6,121969|5,122057|5,122057|6,122145|6,122145|5) - Is there anyway this could be placed on the index+middle of either hands? atleast it would be better to hit than jacking with your weak finger
there's no option to change, sorry- 02:15:116 - there shouldn't be a jack here since it's not following the original jack beat, hence makes it not following anything so i suggest moving these two notes
removed last jack note
enjoyed modding this, take care when this gets qualified again
Another Lie wrote:
just a little suggestion from me (minor things or more like opinion maybe)
[Insane]
01:57:866 (117866|5,117910|4,117954|3,117998|2,118042|1,118307|5,118351|4,118395|3,118439|2,118483|1) - why not make it 1 step to the right? People at above normal rank (around #4000 - #2000) usually panicked when the pattern changed slightly.
alright.
02:19:175 (139175|4,139219|5,139263|1,139307|2,139351|4,139395|5,139439|1,139483|2,139527|4,139572|5,139616|1,139660|2,139704|4,139748|5,139792|1,139836|2,139880|4) - maybe you could make them like this? Why do i think that?
maybe im late to check?? http://puu.sh/tsI3c/0492c8010a.jpg
The balance of these note 02:19:880 (139880|4,139880|5) - if you're going to use current pattern. Those note in the right column are
i prefer to remain the current column, but hey i feel like this LN end is not the same as the other diffs. i'll fix this
i cant understand your point number 2 and 3 cuz i need your past screenshot. feel free to send it again
Maybe that's all i can suggest. Feel free to reject, also reply it. I will look forward for your reply - thanks
major nerfed Infection diff on LongNotes. feels free to check it again.ArcherLove wrote:
hi nanatsu long time no see pls make many sv taiko map
hi maiz94y(when will check my map? already like 1 yr lolol jk)
hi expew i did some suggestion on the hardest diff and the diff that's not too hard but hard diff, mind to look?
I will only focus in playability and visualization (and bit PR) so this is all me suggesting a very suggestive suggestion.
[insane]
00:03:822 (3822|3,3998|3) - better at 5 for visualization?
the pitch looks good current one
00:09:469 (9469|3,9645|2) - ctrl+j?
looks good.
00:14:057 (14057|0,14057|2) - move to 3-5? (different pitch + not-so-bad playability)
00:19:704 (19704|6,19704|4) - to 5-3?
01:53:939 (113939|1) - move to 5?
01:54:998 (114998|2,115175|3,115351|2) - http://puu.sh/tpSXe/9b95cb6fad.jpg
01:55:880 (115880|2,116057|3) - ctrl+j ?
fixed all slight pattern weird
02:05:057 (125057|1,125233|0,125410|1) - swap collumn|?
doesn't need to swap, i rearrange here.
[the diff that got so many dislike and controversion but i like it anyway but well it's hard BUT I STILL LIKE IT]
00:03:822 (3822|2,3998|2) - move to 4?
nope better remain current one.
00:06:469 (6469|0) - move to 7 instead? because 00:06:469 (6469|3,6645|2,6822|1,6822|4,6998|3,7175|2,7175|5) -
I don't think so, if you combine with all. im sure it suitable.
00:37:351 (37351|5,37527|4,37704|3,37880|4,38057|3) - http://puu.sh/tpUbv/e8e50e074e.jpg ?
already change new pattern here. please check new update
00:42:116 (42116|5,42116|2,42292|2,42292|5) - I think it's different sound how about move 00:42:292 (42292|5,42292|2) - 1 coll to the left? (yes, jack with 00:42:469 (42469|4) - not bad I think)
make sense, move left col to make different sound.
00:43:704 (43704|3,43792|6) - http://puu.sh/tpUfw/b7092eb974.jpg (better visualization + playability for mee but idk)
i already change this part, please check new update
why 01:22:351 (82351|6,82351|0,83057|0,83057|6) - 2 note but 01:22:704 (82704|4) - only 1? the LN have all 1 LN, add at 1? not bad playability I think?
i nerfed this part , please update and recheck again.
01:33:027 (93027|5,93027|1,93116|4,93116|2,93204|1,93204|5,93292|6) - http://puu.sh/tpUrY/24ba049996.jpg ? if not want jack the 7th note go to 1?
01:35:233 (95233|6,95233|2) - change to LN 1/2? (to the white line, is this 1/2 LN? or 1/4? zzzz ajee said 1/2)
looks horrible hahahawow u open02:32:939 (152939|6,152939|4,153027|6,153027|4,153116|6,153116|4,153204|6,153204|4,153292|6,153292|4,153380|6,153380|4,153469|4,153469|6,153557|4,153557|6,153645|6,153645|4,153733|6,153733|4,153822|6,153822|4,153910|4,153910|6,153998|4,153998|6,154086|6,154086|4,154175|6,154175|4,154263|6,154263|4,154351|6,154351|4,154439|6,154439|4,154527|6,154527|4,154616|4,154616|6,154704|4,154704|6,154792|6,154792|4,154880|6,154880|4,154969|6,154969|4) -
^^^ MACHINE GUN ^^^ *pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew*haveSOME IJIMA YUN AND MY REACTION WHEN PLAY DIS MAP
good luck mantan tembakan pesawat pew
Raymond wrote:
quick mod
Raymond wrote:
quick
Kuo Kyoka wrote:
quick mod before set off everything again
[Easy]
00:17:057 - this note also have cymbal, you might want to add a note here ok
00:25:527 (25527|0,26233|4) - instrument on here is kind of different with the rest of banjo sounds, I mean with 1/4, personal I think long notes fits it well pm
00:28:351 (28351|6,29057|2) - same goes^
00:29:763 (29763|4,29763|6) - no cymbal here, I think you mean two notes with banjo and string sounds? something different sound without adding hitsounds
01:32:939 (92939|0) - what about move it to 3rd? It sounds different with the rest on 1st, not a kick sound too ok
01:34:704 (94704|3) - I think better to remove this, the string sound stands with long note right there sound better ^
01:50:057 - start on here, personal: http://puu.sh/tzzOo/c5816eb353.png, due to this: http://puu.sh/tzzPl/8bdb5c041a.png stand for the pitch sound, http://puu.sh/tzzQO/b4a720cb52.png stand for main instrument, sound better than it to me last one looks better
01:51:645 (111645|3) - can be end on 01:53:057 - no good
01:52:351 (112351|6) - move to 01:52:527 - for main instrument, sound better than follow kick sound then instrument to me ^
[Normal]
00:09:998 (9998|1,10351|6,10351|4,10880|1,11057|4,11057|6,11410|0,11410|3) - you can ctrl h here for instrument split it's too short to split them
00:14:057 (14057|1) - move to 5th for pitch ok
00:19:704 (19704|5) - same goes here but on 3rd ^
00:51:998 (51998|2,51998|0) - opinional: I think it's better to keep one note on here for like on 00:49:175 (49175|0,50586|6) - ^
01:35:939 - what about this refection: http://puu.sh/tzAo8/19daac0bf1.png also good too, and i need to fix up other part
01:47:233 (107233|4,107322|5,108469|2,108645|2,108733|1) - same with before if you argeed ^
02:32:410 (152410|0,152586|0) - move to 2nd for balance
[Hard]
01:33:822 (93822|0,93822|4) - I dont get why it have to be 2 notes here, if it was for kick, then on here should be same 01:34:175 - yeah , you're right. there a kick sound i missed to put here
01:57:116 - add a note for main melody on 7th for like 01:56:410 (116410|3,116410|0) - the 4th col note it's already in melody note
02:12:645 (132645|1) - I think it's better to move it to 4th for pitch moved
02:32:939 - personally I think it's better to make some mini jacks here, gap on this part to insane is a little large potential hard is for stream note. if i need to make slight jack or mini jack, i have to give some gap with no note before jack coming to reduce fingertap tension.
[Insane]
01:19:175 (79175|0) - remove hitsound for the rest of instrument (i mean to make it the same, like on hard diff) agree this
01:28:351 (88351|3,88351|5,88351|1) - these notes got a different sounds than other 3 I guess rearrange whole part this section
01:56:057 (116057|2) - hitsound on here should be on 01:55:880 (115880|3) - already??
01:58:704 (118704|5,118704|6,119057|5,119057|1,119057|6) - its kind of weird to have this, where this one have 2 notes but the rest are 3
here is solution: actually i dont have any ideas here, but maybe may the next pattern go this way sound better http://puu.sh/tzBHK/0db492e5f5.png there an error note on first column has conflicted with LN ends, managed to make it 567 123 567 123
02:15:116 (135116|0,135116|2) - move to the right 1 column? it's not snare sound on here agian not good enough
[Infection]
00:38:939 - If the normal kick sound is 2 notes, on here should be 3 with melody on here added for strings melody
00:40:351 - same ^
00:40:704 - 4 notes compared with 00:39:292 - added maintain as 4 notes
01:58:704 - same goes with insane on this part, I think it's better to find a solution here done
That's all!
Anyway, here is the better BG resolution: http://puu.sh/tzCjy/bfade152f1.png
Call me back soon, gl
Totally agree with thisExPew wrote:
i just want tell you guys to consider these things:
1) criticism =/= you are forced to follow/change as instructed.
2) if you feel uncomfortable, you have the freedom to create your own map without anyone hating about it. this is where the variation and diversity exist.
3) i have to repeat this again since you are clearly you missing the point. if they were that serious in disqus, they should have posted their thoughts in the thread itself to make it more constructive and relevant. contribute to the map if you need to justify your reason. make sure to understand the point at (1) above too.
4) those who said about not being skilled enough to play the chart, congratulations for showing your prejudice to the public.
5) to satisfy all players is not an easy task. keep in mind different people has different taste. you know how this works.
So because the current map/pattern is not YOUR taste or the map/pattern isn't up to the standard YOU want, by that you can just say he is not capable of this?juankristal wrote:
And even more seriously, Kuo Kyoka, I imagine there is a rule saying dont nominate stuff you cant judge right? I mean, Mazzerin stuff from STD is the first thing that comes to mind and I think this is a pretty similar comparision. Just leaving it there for you to think about it.
hey so I'd like to point out that when that rule came into fruition the implication was that the nominator can play the map he's nominating or at least be at a level where he can almost play it, because you can't really properly judge hard af map with just theory, you gotta be able to FEEL how it plays unless the map does pretty standard things but fasterYaHao wrote:
So because the current map/pattern is not YOUR taste or the map/pattern isn't up to the standard YOU want, by that you can just say he is not capable of this?
He mod this map more than several times, there are efforts and actual works behind this bubble icon.
Unlike someone who just walk into the thread, give one long essay (Which some of the points are valued, i agree) but without giving any timing point, any suggestions on how to improve the mapping quality, plus 80% of the points are whether "Personal" or "Community think"instead of being "Subjective". Do you think this person is capable of popping this map? Dont think so.
this is a dangerous precedent to set, "I can just ignore QAT's reasons and do whatever I want, that guy did it as well lol", that can honestly dig even deeper hole for mania ranking process that it's already inExPew wrote:
updated.
the jack ending part was reverted like old qualified version.
Hey that is the next map I was planning to pop. Don't spoil my stuffYaHao wrote:
Be able to play surely will help you a lot on judging a map, but that's not everything. Of course, "just theory" is not gonna stand either.
Let's quit arguing whether a BN can or not judge this map, its pointless and i dont think this can do any help to the map itself, plus i can find many examples of BN icon a map which is beyond his playing skill. http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/5771261
Less talking, some actual work (like a proper mod) to improve the map will be helpful, or even quote the QAT mod if not agree with pew's reply to them, cause i dont see any of you two did that.
Let's do everyone a favor and drop the condescending tone here. You're targeting juankristal for his point and acting as if he's the only one that has expressed any sort of concern about this map being ranked. I'm gonna cut straight to the point here and not beat around the bush: you're trying to abuse intersubjectivity to get something absolutely ridiculous ranked, because "it follows ranking requirements" and therefore, should be allowed. The fact of the matter is that there's been a clear disrespect by ExPew because a section that was previously reverted as suggested by others has been added back into the map. That's not alright under any circumstance — that screams "well, others have vetted this, that means it is ok."YaHao wrote:
So because the current map/pattern is not YOUR taste or the map/pattern isn't up to the standard YOU want, by that you can just say he is not capable of this?juankristal wrote:
And even more seriously, Kuo Kyoka, I imagine there is a rule saying dont nominate stuff you cant judge right? I mean, Mazzerin stuff from STD is the first thing that comes to mind and I think this is a pretty similar comparision. Just leaving it there for you to think about it.
He mod this map more than several times, there are efforts and actual works behind this bubble icon.
Unlike someone who just walk into the thread, give one long essay (Which some of the points are valued, i agree) but without giving any timing point, any suggestions on how to improve the mapping quality, plus 80% of the points are whether "Personal" or "Community think"instead of being "Subjective". Do you think this person is capable of popping this map? Dont think so.
The purpose of beatmap modding is to get the map to the highest quality out of the beatmap. Those who are modding don't have to change one's attitude in most cases — however, when you have players who absolutely dislike the map, and various impartial people saying that the structure is basically unplayable/unenjoyable, that should be an immediate red flag that something like this is an issue. While juankristal might not have been the best at making his point by adding a bit of a tactless statement about the song/map, the point is that this map presents a serious issue for another reason as well:richardfeder wrote:
...did you pop this bubble on a bn's point of view with specific reasons regarding any technical issues presented in the mapset, or did you just pop it because you don't like Expew's attitude and the fact that he declined mods with legit justification? I do believe that, despite mapper's attitude is a huge factor in the ranking process, we do not veto a map just because its owner is an asshole(and Expew is not an asshole, nor is he trying to be arrogant and shit at people). Modders are here to express their opinions and offer helps to the map, but here to not change one's attitude.
The moment something like this hits ranked, it's going to assist in setting a precedence that states "well, ExPew managed to get this kind of map ranked, I should be able to do it too." This kind of mentality enables a snowfall effect that transcends this single map for the purpose of ranks: people will feel like they have the ability to "innovate" or "try something new" in a map, and to be perfectly honest: this isn't any sort of novelty or groundbreaking. It's just abusive patterning in a short section of the song that delivers nothing more than a substantial difficulty spike.juankristal wrote:
I hope you can see its not about skill, is about making the map more reasonable. Stuff like this in general are uncommon to see ranked and if you want to do it, you have to do it right. AiAe was a mistake, so will this map be if it hits ranked.
I think you're disregarding the fact that, if I'm interpreting the context correctly within the course of the thread and the post that ExPew made: he nerfed the ending with respect to criticisms provided, only to decide to put it back right at the end of the map's modding cycle (basically post Kuo's bubble). And the whole concept of this map not violating any written rules of the RC is a stupid excuse, let's drop that right at the door — it's a pathetic excuse of a shield for the purpose of trying to let something that has been established as subjectively incorrect and poorly done by both mappers and players (polarization in rankings). I've yet to see anyone that the difficulty aims to target, who is impartial to the situation, react positively about the structure of this map. In fact, I personally was tipped off about this map's infamy for the same reason that this map was disqualified, and alone speaks volumes. This is not something that should pass.richardfeder wrote:
The map doesn't violet any written rules in the RC. You said that this map was disqualified for a reason and it has not yet been addressed. What I can see from both disqualification posts is that, QATs put this down for spaces to discuss and Expew to justify his mapping or make any changes if necessary, and Expew indeed went through mods and replied. Did you interpret the disqualification post as a denial to certain part of the map? No one disqualified this map because any parts are absolutely unacceptable and have to be changed because they violate RC or anything. Indeed the jack part is not considered as common sense in mania mapping by some people, but there are also folks who like it and are looking forward to see how pros, or themselves, smash through that part. In their opinion, the jack parts are absolutely an authentic expression of the music and are parts that make this map special.
Kawawa wrote:
Players also already playing similar tempo with this(recently DT patch)
If I compared with something.
https://puu.sh/va1ae/5e05342095.jpg
LEFT :: C18H27NO3(extend) 4K DT burst one(310 BPM)
RIGHT :: Beethoven will be calculated as 340 BPM(because It used only one hand)
maybe it can be ridiculous that I brought 4K and DT.
nevertheless It shows the player can play. how much player can passed it?
holy shit it's like i'm psychicHalogen- wrote:
The moment something like this hits ranked, it's going to assist in setting a precedence that states "well, ExPew managed to get this kind of map ranked, I should be able to do it too." This kind of mentality enables a snowfall effect that transcends this single map for the purpose of ranks: people will feel like they have the ability to "innovate" or "try something new" in a map, and to be perfectly honest: this isn't any sort of novelty or groundbreaking. It's just abusive patterning in a short section of the song that delivers nothing more than a substantial difficulty spike.
! no hate please!Halogen- wrote:
As Kamikaze said: you cannot judge a map purely on theoretical ability. There are playability standards that should be adhered to, and the highest difficulty on this map is far from it. When you're going out of your way to get a bubble on this map, you are acknowledging that you have intent to expose this file to players, and you can't just insert something that you want because it "feels right." A 25-note 1/4 chord jack at 170 BPM is simply not acceptable under any constraint: I don't care in this particular case that it is an atonal repetition, and I wouldn't care if it was a repeated piano chord or something that would "theoretically merit" that kind of patterning: you wouldn't do it in any case because it's largely unplayable and is a huge difficulty spike with comparison to the rest of the map.
I think the jack pattern definitely does not go over the playability standards, if it actually exists. You said that the highest difficulty is far from it, and I do agree with you that indeed it is if one tries to fc it. The "playable" you stated above is clearly too much. It is absolutely doable, but hardto be executed perfectly. I am not going to pretend that many people can actually handle it, but I am pretty sure that at the same time, there are quite a few pro who believe they can do it and are willing to repeated challenge that pattern to proof their skills.
The purpose of beatmap modding is to get the map to the highest quality out of the beatmap. Those who are modding don't have to change one's attitude in most cases — however, when you have players who absolutely dislike the map, and various impartial people saying that the structure is basically unplayable/unenjoyable, that should be an immediate red flag that something like this is an issue. While juankristal might not have been the best at making his point by adding a bit of a tactless statement about the song/map, the point is that this map presents a serious issue for another reason as well:
I absolutely have no idea about the immediate red flag part. Why is it a "NO" just because, let's say 60% of the people(if you do go over the thread you will notice that 60% is way more than a conservative calculation) hate it? You should be aware of the fact that people out there are promoting this map with careful thoughts.The moment something like this hits ranked, it's going to assist in setting a precedence that states "well, ExPew managed to get this kind of map ranked, I should be able to do it too." This kind of mentality enables a snowfall effect that transcends this single map for the purpose of ranks: people will feel like they have the ability to "innovate" or "try something new" in a map, and to be perfectly honest: this isn't any sort of novelty or groundbreaking. It's just abusive patterning in a short section of the song that delivers nothing more than a substantial difficulty spike.juankristal wrote:
I hope you can see its not about skill, is about making the map more reasonable. Stuff like this in general are uncommon to see ranked and if you want to do it, you have to do it right. AiAe was a mistake, so will this map be if it hits ranked.
What are you afraid of? The danger of snowfall always exists, and it is not going to be an excuse for us to stop here and with our limited mapping styles stays unchanged for ages. Indeed jack pattern itself is not a new technique, but trying to use long jack pattern and corporate it with the rest of the map is definitely something we have not tried in the past. It opens up the discussion if patterns like this are actually usable in certain cases and I do not think it is wise to shut this down just because many people can't play this pattern at all.
We are not in the stage of snowfall. We have not even experienced a single snow due to the fact that how cautious we are. I 100% understand the fear you and Juan harbor, but I also have confidence that, even if Expew ranked his map and it failed the community miserably and someone tries the same thing later, instead of saying "well, Expew managed to get his shit ranked so I guess I should be able to do that too", our mappers, BNs and QATs will say "hey did you see those salty comments and replays on the scoreboard? Don't try that and we won't rank map like that anymore".I think you're disregarding the fact that, if I'm interpreting the context correctly within the course of the thread and the post that ExPew made: he nerfed the ending with respect to criticisms provided, only to decide to put it back right at the end of the map's modding cycle (basically post Kuo's bubble). And the whole concept of this map not violating any written rules of the RC is a stupid excuse, let's drop that right at the door — it's a pathetic excuse of a shield for the purpose of trying to let something that has been established as subjectively incorrect and poorly done by both mappers and players (polarization in rankings). I've yet to see anyone that the difficulty aims to target, who is impartial to the situation, react positively about the structure of this map. In fact, I personally was tipped off about this map's infamy for the same reason that this map was disqualified, and alone speaks volumes. This is not something that should pass.richardfeder wrote:
The map doesn't violet any written rules in the RC. You said that this map was disqualified for a reason and it has not yet been addressed. What I can see from both disqualification posts is that, QATs put this down for spaces to discuss and Expew to justify his mapping or make any changes if necessary, and Expew indeed went through mods and replied. Did you interpret the disqualification post as a denial to certain part of the map? No one disqualified this map because any parts are absolutely unacceptable and have to be changed because they violate RC or anything. Indeed the jack part is not considered as common sense in mania mapping by some people, but there are also folks who like it and are looking forward to see how pros, or themselves, smash through that part. In their opinion, the jack parts are absolutely an authentic expression of the music and are parts that make this map special.
I am not trying to say that he does not violate any written laws so he is safe. Sorry for not saying my thoughts in a clean, understandable way.
Please allow me to rephrase what I tended to say in my previous post. We have so little rules which gives us the maximum potential to express our interpretation freely, and as long as it is justified reasonably, it should not be easily denied. Same, if you are going to say no, you have to voice your concern with details. A undefined idea "Unplayable"(where's the boundary? No no can fc = unplayable? 70% players can't catch 70% of the notes in the jack part = unplayable? Or no one can actually pass it is a true "unplayable"?) sounds so rude and arrogant compares to how much efforts modders, BNs who support this map with their reasons stated.
I was thinking about Juan saying Expew did not fix any "QAT's concern" when I typed my previous post. All I wanted to say before is that Expew did not violate and written rules and QAT did not disqualified the map, saying that "you must change this part" ect.. There's no such "QAT's concern". They DQ-ed for more discussions so that we all can sit down and talk about this before everything is settled too quickly.
A good mapper knows how to express the music properly, while still making it approachable for the players who want to play it. This is not approachable under any circumstance. If my memory serves me correctly, even jakads, who is #1 in the game statistically at the moment, a player that has spent time crushing all varieties of maps in the game, was not able to properly play the ending of your not even 6* map.
There's no guarantee that if you S-ranked all 5* maps then when you download the next 5* maps you are going to pass it. It is highly likely that you can handle it well, but sometimes not. As you know Tom's algorithm has been helping us a ton, but it is also true that the star rating system we have right now still cannot handle certain patterns for instances heavy LNs and jacks. You know that this is actually not 6* at all.
I am still note sure what do you mean by saying properly. I am not, and I guess no one, maybe including himself, is expecting jakads or someone else crushes that part easily. Are you expecting him to perform "properly"?
That's not true. ExPew already made the change so the map *should* be ready to go. It's just that I feel I had to answer kawawa after saying something I found really irrelevant/false. In any case, you can move on.Kuo Kyoka wrote:
This will never had a stop.
Yeah, while I didnt mod 7K that much I care about what I do and I talk with people about the choices I will take before I take them. After a 3 month period of modding stuff got modded and changed, then at the end you bubbled it with the changes of those mods reverted. Figure out what you say. As I marked in red, you can pmuch see the issue.Kuo Kyoka wrote:
It's not impossible to play, someone does FC'ed it. jakads himself is an example, in early stage of first qualified I watched his gameplay.
The map supposed to be challenge. I can't understand why everyone forced ExPew to do what he don't want to, he explained many times, he do progress quite a lot already, taking critisms like you've asked but yet someone doesn't new ending so he reverted it.
And you're saying I can't judge the map? So my mod and testplay for the map is meaningless? Judge doesn't mean you can only do that by gameplay, a few gameplay would help to check the comfortability but playability isn't the only way to judge can you just understand what I'm saying? It's rude and my thought you guys mean that I go blindly nominated this mapset for no reasons.
And again, why? ExPew even give you guys 3 months of period, after DQ-ed on January, everything calmed down and we thought you are COMPLETELY fine with it, now continue with a group of "community" after juankristal showed up?
And no hate, did you ever mod a 7K map before, juankristal? Or just popped the bubble because of "community voice"?
You can hate this map/song, but that doesn't mean ALL players hate it, ALL mappers hate it, I repeat, ALL, not a group of 20 people with haters. It's not neccessary to force other to do something they don't like, frame-work job is no good.
We care what you said, we read what you wrotr, we listen and understand what you're trying to say, but going on, we don't want to neccessary follow what you said if we have a good reason to do that, or you guys didn't care what we said and our effort putted on here, or just watch the result and spoil it all?
17VA: Know what you're saying, did you even look to the thread itself?
So, ExPew changed then stop please, it's better for you to pass over lower tier difficulities than just focus on one last diff to understand how the map was going on, it's just like you watching the end of a new movie.
Thanks. I stop here, I'm sorry if I'm salty.SPOILERI belive Glorious Crown got the same treats, many people said they will mod it but it been 2 weeks since last DQ and Interlude-and Tifyron and Tode are 3 people only came back
Dear juankristal,juankristal wrote:
And last, any BN can pop any bubble at any time before something is qualified. The BN who got his bubble popped can icon the set again until both parts find an agreement. I am trying to go with some pattern derivations of what ExPew has right now to try and reflect how is it achieved right now in at least a better way (to not be 100% the guy who says, this is bad, fix k bye) tho I will consult some high end players first before anything.
I think the ending could look a bit more symetric or pleasing but I might just be wrong and it could be fine as it is. Anyways, I will try to get that veredict done for tonight.
I was sure the end was at a bad state because it was quite obvious. This year around given that I don't consider myself to be good enough to tell if that ending would play just fine or if it still should be reconsidered.Kuo Kyoka wrote:
Dear juankristal,juankristal wrote:
And last, any BN can pop any bubble at any time before something is qualified. The BN who got his bubble popped can icon the set again until both parts find an agreement. I am trying to go with some pattern derivations of what ExPew has right now to try and reflect how is it achieved right now in at least a better way (to not be 100% the guy who says, this is bad, fix k bye) tho I will consult some high end players first before anything.
I think the ending could look a bit more symetric or pleasing but I might just be wrong and it could be fine as it is. Anyways, I will try to get that veredict done for tonight.
By what you said, you can't unsure something by yourself even, that make me rethink that you pop the bubble just because you feel that map is not ready and everyone (your community voices) think like you, but not because you have a special details on it: "why and should not why?"
So, please define bad? What is bad to you in the ending?
i change again ending jack pattern make it more balance. please look again.juankristal wrote:
So this is what I find out to be what I would end up doing, ExPew, I would like your thoughts on this and potentially talk about it to get into a middle point with it and both be okey.
Infection diff:
02:33:292 -
The way I drafted this is in a way where it is symetrical-ish I guess. You can also do some mixing and instead of making it full like that it could be [67][23][56] etc (all of them being 2 note jacks ofc). I think it would be more playable overall.
based on pic, people can fc with ease by simply spam with 3 finger ( no need to read the note column changes ) and easier than Insane diff jack.
referring to the right finger jack i made last time, due to the complaint where it caused a spike on the right and a bit too long, i arranged it with 2 fingers left and right together for better playability which some player has difficulty of a weak right spot for the jack
This is another example of the usage, a bit more challlenging and harder:
But then again we reach another issue which would be the other long jacks:
continuous jack on space is not recommend for me because we don't know player will play it by using left or right thumb since it's a long jack on this part.
02:25:527 - 02:14:233 - this ones being the most significants. So here it would happen the thing I mentioned earlier but in the opposite way. How to fix this well, you always have the option of rotating this into 2 sets of jacks instead only one but I imagine you want to keep them so, you could try and use the 4th column a bit in the ending to balance that gap out a little bit. In my honest opinion, I would change the remaining jacks that I marked into 2 bllocks of jacks or maybe even like the ending I proposed splitting them into 2 note jacks.
i have to refuse. im following the instrument pitch and this section is not for extensive long jack. if you think there is a less column usage, the music already fit it well with the current note.]
Tell me what you think about them so we decide what to do after all.
For the insane difficulty however I believe that would create a gap between both endings so you probably want to change that ending a little bit too. Keeping it as a double trill until 02:34:351 - that part should be good enough but I guess you could draft something else like having sudden 2 note jacks instead. Just make it easier than the proposed ending of the hardest diff and avoid the 4note jack usage for spread reasons. In any case, I am up for debating this further and reach conclusions that satisfies both of us.
considering to nerf the jack due to slight gap on Hard diff (single note stream without any jack). this might look better
Waiting for your answer then.