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BanYa & Warak - Beethoven Influenza [OsuMania]

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Total Posts
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lemonguy
548 posts
Joined July 2014
lemonguy
IRC
23:07 ExPew: Hi. you're free around?
00:16 Gekido-: oh hi, just saw your message 
00:17 ExPew: have you read the thread i posted?
00:18 Gekido-: yeah I saw
00:23 ExPew: your idea quite interesting for me, but looks more harder with those minijack it turns
00:27 Gekido-: hmm in my opinion it isn't harder, it requires good finger independency, while the current pattern requires fast wrist jacking or vibro (which is something pretty rare that even top players cannot do well).  
00:30 ExPew: hmm, i was thinking to make 2 and 6 jack column
00:30 ExPew: guess it's easier to play by using 2 finger stream on 1 button
00:30 Gekido-: for the whole thing?  that would be harder than having it on 5 and 7 imo o.o
00:32 Gekido-: hmm 2 fingers on one button is doable, but most people wouldn't think of that 
00:32 ExPew: that's after i saw someone playing sewing machine long ago
00:34 Gekido-: I think the biggest problem with that would be transitioning into and out of it, because you would need to position your hands and fingers to trill on the same key, and then reposition it for the last 5 notes
00:37 ExPew: i remapped new stream with jack pattern
00:37 ExPew: i guess this would be accepable
00:38 Gekido-: can I see it
00:41 ExPew: i idea something like this http://puu.sh/sRdbO/1134f4f9f5.png
00:41 Gekido-: oh yeah that's a lot better
00:41 ExPew: pattern still mess yet i just draw a scale
00:41 Gekido-: something like that would be good imo
00:44 ExPew: the problem is i can't make it full ballance. there a few an error note
00:47 ExPew: ok now looks better
00:48 ExPew: http://puu.sh/sRdsT/4d064cb2e3.png
00:49 Gekido-: I think that looks good yeah
00:50 ExPew: applied now im sure im dead at this part lmao
00:51 Gekido-: ahaha rip
00:54 ExPew: alright that's only
00:54 Gekido-: 02:25:527 - I also think that this jack is really difficult, especially since you are transitioning out out of 13 and 75 trills, but honestly I'm not really sure what to do here, unless you wanted to do something similar to what you changed the ending to
00:55 ExPew: hmm
00:57 ExPew: really can't get here pattern if starting note at 2 and 6 col
01:00 Gekido-: yeah, maybe if you changed the trills to just 7575 for one and 1313 for the other, then you could start the jack on one hand (something like this https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/6816486)
01:01 ExPew: looks equal like 02:14:057 -
01:01 ExPew: got it
01:03 Gekido-: yeah that should be good then 
01:07 ExPew: changed 1/8 like your screenshot , still can able to spam for me :P
01:08 Gekido-: :P
01:08 ExPew: thank you for checking, please create new meme at the last part :P old one already expired
01:11 Gekido-: LOL alright xD

Thanks for accepting my mod, and good luck on requalification
Akasha-
Nomination Assessment Team
4,418 posts
Joined April 2013
Akasha-
"01:08 ExPew: thank you for checking, please create new meme at the last part :P old one already expired"

I will miss the jack
Like Rose let Jack died
Like Apple.Inc banned jackhead





Jk. Call me back soon
_underjoy
704 posts
Joined January 2013
_underjoy
This pattern is much worse now in my opinion, kills the layering you've been enforcing throughout the whole map.

LN on spacebar and [13][13][57][57][13][13][57][57] seems far more optimal and pleasurable to play through.
(i supported the old jack but I guess we can't have everything, option above plays well and doesn't create stupid minijack stairs).
optionally the minijack chains could be 4 or 8 note long. that's to your decision.
please consider
Akasha-
Nomination Assessment Team
4,418 posts
Joined April 2013
Akasha-
Okay, it's not going to end that well so revert the old pattern back would be the best solution, while the jackstream 77 55 33 11 with long notes in between would make it extremely hard and my thought that no one would ever surpass it than the old one, so, I give you 4 solutions
1. Change it back to 24 jacks
2. Split to 2 parts: each 12 jacks
3. Split to 4 patrs: each 6 jacks
4. Split to 6 parts: each 4 jacks
Which are more considering according to the pitch itself. Mini-jacks was fine, you can rearrange the pattern by your own ideas, and of course, which could be better than the current one.
lemonguy
548 posts
Joined July 2014
lemonguy
I thought that the new ending pattern was fine, so I'm kinda surprised to see people disliking it. The majority of people seem to want it changed to splitting into 2/3/4 parts with 12/8/6 jacks like Underjoy and KK stated, so maybe that would be best.
Hopefully then everyone can finally come to an agreement on the ending lmao
Maiz94
1,376 posts
Joined June 2010
Maiz94

Kuo Kyoka wrote:

while the jackstream 77 55 33 11 with long notes in between would make it extremely hard and my thought that no one would ever surpass it than the old one.
It's not extremely hard, it's combo-able but the PR or the relationship between the pattern and the song on the said part is not well suited and brings weird to combo.

I agree that 24 jacks is too overkill, (kek expew. hahaha) but I guess _underjoy solution is pretty enjoyable to combo and plus, it's fun and more challenging that way.

Non-worthy statements.
Last edited by Maiz94 , edited 1 time in total.
Maiz94
1,376 posts
Joined June 2010
Maiz94
Sorry for the bump. I took back my words about the jacks were being too overkill.

Expew and me have discussed about the jacks that these 24 jacks are combo-able and yes, it may not comfortable to give for casual players. BUT, the mapper tends to make it more challenging than Insane difficulty and this Infection difficulty is tend for advanced and inhuman skills of a player's target audience and doesn't tend to target audience for casual players.

If you are one from a casual player category, you can play other lower difficulties designed than Infection that the mapper has mapped with love for you to enjoy. You, as a casual player can also enjoy Infection difficulty BUT don't think and decide that this Infection difficulty lowers your play skill ability. Instead, take it as a challenge for you whether if you want it cleared as a target or just want to be combo-able all throughout the duration of the song.

If you didn't enjoy the Infection difficulty whether you take it as a challenge or just went for the play-for-fun thing with all those HT/NF mods kind of stuff, then you have played that 1 game far too long that you won't accept a single change on your desired pattern for you to play.

It is time for you and your fan-club to be open-minded with all other rhythm games and not just stick to only 1 game that your logical and rational thinking are close-minded because of it.

Expew called his mapping as a, map based on the song with rhythmic and various patterns.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a project with Kuo Kyoka to team-up with and plus, it is related to Expew actually and wanted to have a surprise for Expew. ;)
riktoi
711 posts
Joined September 2014
riktoi
01:57:844 - Considering the sound starts playing here the first roll should start here too. Also, since the first piano roll is faster than the others I'm pretty sure it should start with a 1/16 roll and then everything after that be 1/8. Making this comfortable might be hard but it's not exactly what you're going for with this chart anyway.

00:53:057 (53057|4,53057|0,53145|2,53145|6,53233|4,53233|0,53322|6,53322|2,53410|4,53410|0,53498|6,53498|2) - If we're talking pitch relevancy, aren't these technically incorrect? since you have 6 note jacks somewhere else in the chart I don't think they would hurt too badly here. I respect your structuring so you probably know better here.

01:06:116 (66116|4,66160|3,66204|2,66248|1,66292|6,66336|5,66380|4,66425|3) - This is probably also about comfort. As someone who doesn't really play 7k I can't really tell how hard something is (since I can't play it) but at least I can check pitch relevancy. So, at 01:06:292 - the sound "changes", so I feel the roll could go into the opposite direction as the roll before does.

01:10:704 - 01:11:410 - I feel like this section is a bit inconsistent with the jacks. 01:10:704 (70704|4,70704|0,70792|2) - this pattern and 01:10:880 (70880|0,70969|0) - do follow the same sound but they are charted differently. The pitch does change but there's no noticeable audio cue to justify this kind of change I suppose.

01:52:395 - If you wanted you could have a 1/8 snapped note here

I think the ending currently follows pitch very nicely and it also gives it a bit more difficulty apart from just being raw speed. Good luck!
Soul Evans
Elite Mapper
425 posts
Joined June 2014
Soul Evans
Soul's random Modding
1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 / 7

General


  1. BPM: Okay
  2. Offset: Okay
  3. AiMod: Okay
  4. Tags: Okay
  5. BG: Okay
  6. Kiai: Okay
  7. Metadata: Okay
  8. Folder’s problem: None
  9. Hitsound: Okay
  10. Timing: Okay
  11. Other: Okay
    [Infection]
  12. 00:18:469 (18469|0) - why does this note that's part of the chord interfering with the jacks? no need to add an extra jack note it doesn't follow rythm and makes the jack unbalanced, so i would move that
  13. 00:23:233 (23233|2,23233|6,23322|6,23322|2) - This doesn't play out smoothly in a way, not that jack by itself but how much it messes up so i might move those two in the middle, would turn out quite good i guess
  14. 00:30:469 - why don't you make this have two lns instead of one for the beat that's being louder than the earlier beat? i think it would play out nice to make the player feel the music more
  15. 00:25:527 (25527|2) - This might be better off on column 1, i mean, it feels unbalanced for me personally, and think it would be a better pattern intro for the LNs
  16. 00:30:469 - same here, like i said about it earlier
  17. 00:32:057 - I was thinking about maybe adding lns to this to fit the theme of map more and to represent the instrument beat i am hearing
  18. 00:36:292 - why does this pattern have to be the same as the one before it? when i was playing it i was expecting a jack so maybe move it to other cols would be better to make it have more variety to make it more fun!
  19. 00:38:057 (38057|2) - i kinda feel like this LN should extend to here 00:38:057 (38057|2) - it just feels awkward to me so i'm not sure.
  20. 00:39:469 - same here
  21. 00:57:910 (57910|2,57998|2) - maybe try avoiding this
  22. 01:00:822 - I think there should be a 3rd jack here, the sound supports it i think
  23. 01:06:998 - why not make these violin sounds LN? think it would be more consistent that way add short lns i love them pls
  24. 01:09:645 - ^
  25. 01:16:880 (76880|4,76969|6,77057|3,77145|6) - If you could just, find a way these don't touch each other it would be extremely fun to play through this i trust you know how to change it sine you're expew after all! : )
  26. 01:27:645 - maybe you should add an ln for the scream (?) up until here 01:28:704 -
  27. 01:32:939 - i think you should add a note here, since it follows up the rest of the beats and it would be more consistent
  28. 01:40:351 - is there a way to switch the jacks? it's unbalancing so i think it could be better to swap cols around
  29. 02:01:527 (121527|5,121527|6,121616|6,121616|5,121704|5,121704|6,121792|6,121792|5,121880|5,121880|6,121969|6,121969|5,122057|5,122057|6,122145|6,122145|5) - Is there anyway this could be placed on the index+middle of either hands? atleast it would be better to hit than jacking with your weak finger
  30. 02:15:116 - there shouldn't be a jack here since it's not following the original jack beat, hence makes it not following anything so i suggest moving these two notes

enjoyed modding this, take care when this gets qualified again
Nanatsu
1,138 posts
Joined June 2013
Nanatsu

Maiz94 wrote:

If you are one from a casual player category, you can play other lower difficulties designed than Infection that the mapper has mapped with love for you to enjoy. You, as a casual player can also enjoy Infection difficulty BUT don't think and decide that this Infection difficulty lowers your play skill ability. Instead, take it as a challenge for you whether if you want it cleared as a target or just want to be combo-able all throughout the duration of the song.

If you didn't enjoy the Infection difficulty whether you take it as a challenge or just went for the play-for-fun thing with all those HT/NF mods kind of stuff, then you have played that 1 game far too long that you won't accept a single change on your desired pattern for you to play.
I hope this logic works on Loved map category
paperlens
505 posts
Joined August 2014
paperlens
WoW :)
Another Lie
Another Lie
just a little suggestion from me (minor things or more like opinion maybe)

Insane
01:57:866 (117866|5,117910|4,117954|3,117998|2,118042|1,118307|5,118351|4,118395|3,118439|2,118483|1) - why not make it 1 step to the right? People at above normal rank (around #4000 - #2000) usually panicked when the pattern changed slightly.
02:19:175 (139175|4,139219|5,139263|1,139307|2,139351|4,139395|5,139439|1,139483|2,139527|4,139572|5,139616|1,139660|2,139704|4,139748|5,139792|1,139836|2,139880|4) - maybe you could make them like this? Why do i think that?
1. The balance of these note 02:19:880 (139880|4,139880|5) - if you're going to use current pattern. Those note in the right column are 3 notes. Meanwhile if you're using my opinion, it will be balanced because 02:19:792 (139792|1,139836|2,139880|4) - will be at left column
2. The playability of the burst. I think you are using that burst for the left handed players having advantage to play that. (It's not like i critism you. But all of your charts are well-balanced, but i think a bit of "advanced playability". I mean, players can feel comfortable & loved your chart because those are challenging & comfortable to play)
Maybe that's all i can suggest. Feel free to reject, also reply it. I will look forward for your reply :D
ExPew
Elite Mapper
1,220 posts
Joined January 2011
Topic Starter
ExPew
updated for revert back with 24jacks

will edit later this post after check all modders

EDIT 2 : this post may be late.
ArcherLove
1,434 posts
Joined March 2013
ArcherLove
hi nanatsu long time no see pls make many sv taiko map
hi maiz94y (when will check my map? already like 1 yr lolol jk)
hi expew i did some suggestion on the hardest diff and the diff that's not too hard but hard diff, mind to look?


I will only focus in playability and visualization (and bit PR) so this is all me suggesting a very suggestive suggestion.
[insane]

I think this 00:03:822 (3822|3,3998|3) - better at 5 for visualization?
00:09:469 (9469|3,9645|2) - ctrl+j?
00:14:057 (14057|0,14057|2) - move to 3-5? (different pitch + not-so-bad playability)
00:19:704 (19704|6,19704|4) - to 5-3?
01:53:939 (113939|1) - move to 5?
01:54:998 (114998|2,115175|3,115351|2) - http://puu.sh/tpSXe/9b95cb6fad.jpg
01:55:880 (115880|2,116057|3) - ctrl+j ?
02:05:057 (125057|1,125233|0,125410|1) - swap collumn|?

[the diff that got so many dislike and controversion but i like it anyway but well it's hard BUT I STILL LIKE IT]

00:03:822 (3822|2,3998|2) - move to 4?
00:06:469 (6469|0) - move to 7 instead? because 00:06:469 (6469|3,6645|2,6822|1,6822|4,6998|3,7175|2,7175|5) -
00:37:351 (37351|5,37527|4,37704|3,37880|4,38057|3) - http://puu.sh/tpUbv/e8e50e074e.jpg ?
00:42:116 (42116|5,42116|2,42292|2,42292|5) - I think it's different sound how about move 00:42:292 (42292|5,42292|2) - 1 coll to the left? (yes, jack with 00:42:469 (42469|4) - not bad I think)
00:43:704 (43704|3,43792|6) - http://puu.sh/tpUfw/b7092eb974.jpg (better visualization + playability for mee but idk) :x
why 01:22:351 (82351|6,82351|0,83057|0,83057|6) - 2 note but 01:22:704 (82704|4) - only 1? the LN have all 1 LN, add at 1? not bad playability I think?
01:33:027 (93027|5,93027|1,93116|4,93116|2,93204|1,93204|5,93292|6) - http://puu.sh/tpUrY/24ba049996.jpg ? if not want jack the 7th note go to 1?
01:35:233 (95233|6,95233|2) - change to LN 1/2? (to the white line, is this 1/2 LN? or 1/4? zzzz ajee said 1/2)

wow u open
02:32:939 (152939|6,152939|4,153027|6,153027|4,153116|6,153116|4,153204|6,153204|4,153292|6,153292|4,153380|6,153380|4,153469|4,153469|6,153557|4,153557|6,153645|6,153645|4,153733|6,153733|4,153822|6,153822|4,153910|4,153910|6,153998|4,153998|6,154086|6,154086|4,154175|6,154175|4,154263|6,154263|4,154351|6,154351|4,154439|6,154439|4,154527|6,154527|4,154616|4,154616|6,154704|4,154704|6,154792|6,154792|4,154880|6,154880|4,154969|6,154969|4) -

^^^ MACHINE GUN ^^^ *pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew*

have
SOME IJIMA YUN AND MY REACTION WHEN PLAY DIS MAP


good luck mantan tembakan pesawat pew
ExPew
Elite Mapper
1,220 posts
Joined January 2011
Topic Starter
ExPew
sorrry guys i reply sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo laaaaaaaaattttttttttteeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

riktoi wrote:

01:57:844 - Considering the sound starts playing here the first roll should start here too. Also, since the first piano roll is faster than the others I'm pretty sure it should start with a 1/16 roll and then everything after that be 1/8. Making this comfortable might be hard but it's not exactly what you're going for with this chart anyway.

Fixed, need to confirm where the sound starts with the current update. I use stable 1/8 to play for 1 second piano roll.

00:53:057 (53057|4,53057|0,53145|2,53145|6,53233|4,53233|0,53322|6,53322|2,53410|4,53410|0,53498|6,53498|2) - If we're talking pitch relevancy, aren't these technically incorrect? since you have 6 note jacks somewhere else in the chart I don't think they would hurt too badly here. I respect your structuring so you probably know better here.

yeah, you're right. however it's quite overdone when the music going from the beginning to the middle chorus and make slight gap difficult jump here.

01:06:116 (66116|4,66160|3,66204|2,66248|1,66292|6,66336|5,66380|4,66425|3) - This is probably also about comfort. As someone who doesn't really play 7k I can't really tell how hard something is (since I can't play it) but at least I can check pitch relevancy. So, at 01:06:292 - the sound "changes", so I feel the roll could go into the opposite direction as the roll before does.

your point about 'sound changes' based on pitch, so i re-arranged to 'quick S' stair pattern. hopefully this problem is solved for you and others

01:10:704 - 01:11:410 - I feel like this section is a bit inconsistent with the jacks. 01:10:704 (70704|4,70704|0,70792|2) - this pattern and 01:10:880 (70880|0,70969|0) - do follow the same sound but they are charted differently. The pitch does change but there's no noticeable audio cue to justify this kind of change I suppose.

i think i already make minijack '2 by 2' on the violin sounds last time, well i got lots of feedback from here that it needs some slight nerf. i decided to make 12 11 12 11 lowest as slight stair and jack.

01:52:395 - If you wanted you could have a 1/8 snapped note here

Kuo confirm it for me on this snap

I think the ending currently follows pitch very nicely and it also gives it a bit more difficulty apart from just being raw speed. Good luck!

Soul Evans wrote:

Soul's random Modding
1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 / 7

General


  1. BPM: Okay
  2. Offset: Okay
  3. AiMod: Okay
  4. Tags: Okay
  5. BG: Okay
  6. Kiai: Okay
  7. Metadata: Okay
  8. Folder’s problem: None
  9. Hitsound: Okay
  10. Timing: Okay
  11. Other: Okay
    [Infection]
  12. 00:18:469 (18469|0) - why does this note that's part of the chord interfering with the jacks? no need to add an extra jack note it doesn't follow rythm and makes the jack unbalanced, so i would move that

    oops, i went overboard. fixed.
  13. 00:23:233 (23233|2,23233|6,23322|6,23322|2) - This doesn't play out smoothly in a way, not that jack by itself but how much it messes up so i might move those two in the middle, would turn out quite good i guess

    fixed, makes more balance pattern.
  14. 00:30:469 - why don't you make this have two lns instead of one for the beat that's being louder than the earlier beat? i think it would play out nice to make the player feel the music more

    i don't think of making 2 lns here, they have their own specific melody itself
  15. 00:25:527 (25527|2) - This might be better off on column 1, i mean, it feels unbalanced for me personally, and think it would be a better pattern intro for the LNs

    someone already pointed that this part is quite a mess. i think, i need to rework on this measure line ( im not sure for some improvement or remain as usual )
  16. 00:30:469 - same here, like i said about it earlier

    ??? ???
  17. 00:32:057 - I was thinking about maybe adding lns to this to fit the theme of map more and to represent the instrument beat i am hearing

    looks good and more fit on the rest of 1/4 LNs (ill fix the 1/2LN later on this chorus)
  18. 00:36:292 - why does this pattern have to be the same as the one before it? when i was playing it i was expecting a jack so maybe move it to other cols would be better to make it have more variety to make it more fun!

    slight changes following the rhythm changes at 00:36:292 -
  19. 00:38:057 (38057|2) - i kinda feel like this LN should extend to here 00:38:057 (38057|2) - it just feels awkward to me so i'm not sure.

    actually, i don't want to. it feels a little weird
  20. 00:39:469 - same here ^
  21. 00:57:910 (57910|2,57998|2) - maybe try avoiding this

    moved the LN to 1st column, kinda feels little weird.
  22. 01:00:822 - I think there should be a 3rd jack here, the sound supports it i think

    nope, i'll just switch the LNs on other column
  23. 01:06:998 - why not make these violin sounds LN? think it would be more consistent that way add short lns i love them pls
  24. 01:09:645 - ^

    i can't make a suitable 1/4 LN here for this part sounds. so i decided to switch to normal note here. and other next part. i'll changed to LNs ( kinda tricky lol )
  25. 01:16:880 (76880|4,76969|6,77057|3,77145|6) - If you could just, find a way these don't touch each other it would be extremely fun to play through this i trust you know how to change it sine you're expew after all! : )


    im planning to make it like this, however that note that was highlighted makes some major error http://puu.sh/tsFQN/92024d0ac1.jpg .
    im going to remap this part ( if you disagree with new changes, i'd like to see your suggestion)
  26. 01:27:645 - maybe you should add an ln for the scream (?) up until here 01:28:704 -

    i don't need a scream sound here. it's fine
  27. 01:32:939 - i think you should add a note here, since it follows up the rest of the beats and it would be more consistent

    there a melody sound i followed, and no kick sound here.
  28. 01:40:351 - is there a way to switch the jacks? it's unbalancing so i think it could be better to swap cols around

    changed to more easier gameplay
  29. 02:01:527 (121527|5,121527|6,121616|6,121616|5,121704|5,121704|6,121792|6,121792|5,121880|5,121880|6,121969|6,121969|5,122057|5,122057|6,122145|6,122145|5) - Is there anyway this could be placed on the index+middle of either hands? atleast it would be better to hit than jacking with your weak finger

    there's no option to change, sorry
  30. 02:15:116 - there shouldn't be a jack here since it's not following the original jack beat, hence makes it not following anything so i suggest moving these two notes

    removed last jack note

enjoyed modding this, take care when this gets qualified again

Another Lie wrote:

just a little suggestion from me (minor things or more like opinion maybe)

[Insane]

01:57:866 (117866|5,117910|4,117954|3,117998|2,118042|1,118307|5,118351|4,118395|3,118439|2,118483|1) - why not make it 1 step to the right? People at above normal rank (around #4000 - #2000) usually panicked when the pattern changed slightly.

alright.

02:19:175 (139175|4,139219|5,139263|1,139307|2,139351|4,139395|5,139439|1,139483|2,139527|4,139572|5,139616|1,139660|2,139704|4,139748|5,139792|1,139836|2,139880|4) - maybe you could make them like this? Why do i think that?

maybe im late to check?? http://puu.sh/tsI3c/0492c8010a.jpg

The balance of these note 02:19:880 (139880|4,139880|5) - if you're going to use current pattern. Those note in the right column are

i prefer to remain the current column, but hey i feel like this LN end is not the same as the other diffs. i'll fix this
i cant understand your point number 2 and 3 cuz i need your past screenshot. feel free to send it again

Maybe that's all i can suggest. Feel free to reject, also reply it. I will look forward for your reply :D - thanks

ArcherLove wrote:

hi nanatsu long time no see pls make many sv taiko map
hi maiz94y (when will check my map? already like 1 yr lolol jk)
hi expew i did some suggestion on the hardest diff and the diff that's not too hard but hard diff, mind to look?


I will only focus in playability and visualization (and bit PR) so this is all me suggesting a very suggestive suggestion.
[insane]

00:03:822 (3822|3,3998|3) - better at 5 for visualization?

the pitch looks good current one
00:09:469 (9469|3,9645|2) - ctrl+j?

looks good.
00:14:057 (14057|0,14057|2) - move to 3-5? (different pitch + not-so-bad playability)
00:19:704 (19704|6,19704|4) - to 5-3?
01:53:939 (113939|1) - move to 5?
01:54:998 (114998|2,115175|3,115351|2) - http://puu.sh/tpSXe/9b95cb6fad.jpg
01:55:880 (115880|2,116057|3) - ctrl+j ?

fixed all slight pattern weird
02:05:057 (125057|1,125233|0,125410|1) - swap collumn|?

doesn't need to swap, i rearrange here.

[the diff that got so many dislike and controversion but i like it anyway but well it's hard BUT I STILL LIKE IT]

00:03:822 (3822|2,3998|2) - move to 4?

nope better remain current one.

00:06:469 (6469|0) - move to 7 instead? because 00:06:469 (6469|3,6645|2,6822|1,6822|4,6998|3,7175|2,7175|5) -

I don't think so, if you combine with all. im sure it suitable.

00:37:351 (37351|5,37527|4,37704|3,37880|4,38057|3) - http://puu.sh/tpUbv/e8e50e074e.jpg ?

already change new pattern here. please check new update

00:42:116 (42116|5,42116|2,42292|2,42292|5) - I think it's different sound how about move 00:42:292 (42292|5,42292|2) - 1 coll to the left? (yes, jack with 00:42:469 (42469|4) - not bad I think)

make sense, move left col to make different sound.

00:43:704 (43704|3,43792|6) - http://puu.sh/tpUfw/b7092eb974.jpg (better visualization + playability for mee but idk) :x

i already change this part, please check new update

why 01:22:351 (82351|6,82351|0,83057|0,83057|6) - 2 note but 01:22:704 (82704|4) - only 1? the LN have all 1 LN, add at 1? not bad playability I think?

i nerfed this part , please update and recheck again.

01:33:027 (93027|5,93027|1,93116|4,93116|2,93204|1,93204|5,93292|6) - http://puu.sh/tpUrY/24ba049996.jpg ? if not want jack the 7th note go to 1?
01:35:233 (95233|6,95233|2) - change to LN 1/2? (to the white line, is this 1/2 LN? or 1/4? zzzz ajee said 1/2)

looks horrible hahaha

wow u open
02:32:939 (152939|6,152939|4,153027|6,153027|4,153116|6,153116|4,153204|6,153204|4,153292|6,153292|4,153380|6,153380|4,153469|4,153469|6,153557|4,153557|6,153645|6,153645|4,153733|6,153733|4,153822|6,153822|4,153910|4,153910|6,153998|4,153998|6,154086|6,154086|4,154175|6,154175|4,154263|6,154263|4,154351|6,154351|4,154439|6,154439|4,154527|6,154527|4,154616|4,154616|6,154704|4,154704|6,154792|6,154792|4,154880|6,154880|4,154969|6,154969|4) -

^^^ MACHINE GUN ^^^ *pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew*

have
SOME IJIMA YUN AND MY REACTION WHEN PLAY DIS MAP


good luck mantan tembakan pesawat pew
major nerfed Infection diff on LongNotes. feels free to check it again.

thanks everyone to random mod from my map
Another Lie
Another Lie
Ok nice, ExPew already update it \^.^/
time to training again 8-)
Akasha-
Nomination Assessment Team
4,418 posts
Joined April 2013
Akasha-
quick mod before set off everything again

[Easy]
00:17:057 - this note also have cymbal, you might want to add a note here
00:25:527 (25527|0,26233|4) - instrument on here is kind of different with the rest of banjo sounds, I mean with 1/4, personal I think long notes fits it well
00:28:351 (28351|6,29057|2) - same goes
00:29:763 (29763|4,29763|6) - no cymbal here, I think you mean two notes with banjo and string sounds?
01:32:939 (92939|0) - what about move it to 3rd? It sounds different with the rest on 1st, not a kick sound too
01:34:704 (94704|3) - I think better to remove this, the string sound stands with long note right there sound better
01:50:057 - start on here, personal: http://puu.sh/tzzOo/c5816eb353.png, due to this: http://puu.sh/tzzPl/8bdb5c041a.png stand for the pitch sound, http://puu.sh/tzzQO/b4a720cb52.png stand for main instrument, sound better than it to me
01:51:645 (111645|3) - can be end on 01:53:057 -
01:52:351 (112351|6) - move to 01:52:527 - for main instrument, sound better than follow kick sound then instrument to me

[Normal]
00:09:998 (9998|1,10351|6,10351|4,10880|1,11057|4,11057|6,11410|0,11410|3) - you can ctrl h here for instrument split
00:14:057 (14057|1) - move to 5th for pitch
00:19:704 (19704|5) - same goes here but on 3rd
00:51:998 (51998|2,51998|0) - opinional: I think it's better to keep one note on here for like on 00:49:175 (49175|0,50586|6) -
01:35:939 - what about this refection: http://puu.sh/tzAo8/19daac0bf1.png
01:47:233 (107233|4,107322|5,108469|2,108645|2,108733|1) - same with before if you argeed
02:32:410 (152410|0,152586|0) - move to 2nd for balance

[Hard]
01:33:822 (93822|0,93822|4) - I dont get why it have to be 2 notes here, if it was for kick, then on here should be same 01:34:175 -
01:57:116 - add a note for main melody on 7th for like 01:56:410 (116410|3,116410|0) -
02:12:645 (132645|1) - I think it's better to move it to 4th for pitch
02:32:939 - personally I think it's better to make some mini jacks here, gap on this part to insane is a little large

[Insane]
01:19:175 (79175|0) - remove hitsound for the rest of instrument (i mean to make it the same, like on hard diff)
01:28:351 (88351|3,88351|5,88351|1) - these notes got a different sounds than other 3 I guess
01:56:057 (116057|2) - hitsound on here should be on 01:55:880 (115880|3) -
01:58:704 (118704|5,118704|6,119057|5,119057|1,119057|6) - its kind of weird to have this, where this one have 2 notes but the rest are 3
here is solution: actually i dont have any ideas here, but maybe may the next pattern go this way sound better http://puu.sh/tzBHK/0db492e5f5.png
02:15:116 (135116|0,135116|2) - move to the right 1 column? it's not snare sound on here agian

[Infection]
00:38:939 - If the normal kick sound is 2 notes, on here should be 3 with melody on here
00:40:351 - same
00:40:704 - 4 notes compared with 00:39:292 -
01:58:704 - same goes with insane on this part, I think it's better to find a solution here

That's all!

Anyway, here is the better BG resolution: http://puu.sh/tzCjy/bfade152f1.png

Call me back soon, gl
Ayachi-
2,261 posts
Joined November 2013
Ayachi-

Raymond wrote:

quick mod
ArcherLove
1,434 posts
Joined March 2013
ArcherLove

Raymond wrote:

quick
Arzenvald
4,033 posts
Joined July 2013
Arzenvald
1&3 jack = mashallah
richardfeder
1,056 posts
Joined March 2013
richardfeder
!!!
Akasha-
Nomination Assessment Team
4,418 posts
Joined April 2013
Akasha-
when i said quick mod, doesn't mean you can abandons the map
quick mod = quick fix

rank the map again la
ExPew
Elite Mapper
1,220 posts
Joined January 2011
Topic Starter
ExPew
lazy af :D

SPOILER

Kuo Kyoka wrote:

quick mod before set off everything again

[Easy]
00:17:057 - this note also have cymbal, you might want to add a note here ok
00:25:527 (25527|0,26233|4) - instrument on here is kind of different with the rest of banjo sounds, I mean with 1/4, personal I think long notes fits it well pm
00:28:351 (28351|6,29057|2) - same goes^
00:29:763 (29763|4,29763|6) - no cymbal here, I think you mean two notes with banjo and string sounds? something different sound without adding hitsounds
01:32:939 (92939|0) - what about move it to 3rd? It sounds different with the rest on 1st, not a kick sound too ok
01:34:704 (94704|3) - I think better to remove this, the string sound stands with long note right there sound better ^
01:50:057 - start on here, personal: http://puu.sh/tzzOo/c5816eb353.png, due to this: http://puu.sh/tzzPl/8bdb5c041a.png stand for the pitch sound, http://puu.sh/tzzQO/b4a720cb52.png stand for main instrument, sound better than it to me last one looks better
01:51:645 (111645|3) - can be end on 01:53:057 - no good
01:52:351 (112351|6) - move to 01:52:527 - for main instrument, sound better than follow kick sound then instrument to me ^

[Normal]
00:09:998 (9998|1,10351|6,10351|4,10880|1,11057|4,11057|6,11410|0,11410|3) - you can ctrl h here for instrument split it's too short to split them
00:14:057 (14057|1) - move to 5th for pitch ok
00:19:704 (19704|5) - same goes here but on 3rd ^
00:51:998 (51998|2,51998|0) - opinional: I think it's better to keep one note on here for like on 00:49:175 (49175|0,50586|6) - ^
01:35:939 - what about this refection: http://puu.sh/tzAo8/19daac0bf1.png also good too, and i need to fix up other part
01:47:233 (107233|4,107322|5,108469|2,108645|2,108733|1) - same with before if you argeed ^
02:32:410 (152410|0,152586|0) - move to 2nd for balance

[Hard]
01:33:822 (93822|0,93822|4) - I dont get why it have to be 2 notes here, if it was for kick, then on here should be same 01:34:175 - yeah , you're right. there a kick sound i missed to put here
01:57:116 - add a note for main melody on 7th for like 01:56:410 (116410|3,116410|0) - the 4th col note it's already in melody note
02:12:645 (132645|1) - I think it's better to move it to 4th for pitch moved
02:32:939 - personally I think it's better to make some mini jacks here, gap on this part to insane is a little large potential hard is for stream note. if i need to make slight jack or mini jack, i have to give some gap with no note before jack coming to reduce fingertap tension.

[Insane]
01:19:175 (79175|0) - remove hitsound for the rest of instrument (i mean to make it the same, like on hard diff) agree this
01:28:351 (88351|3,88351|5,88351|1) - these notes got a different sounds than other 3 I guess rearrange whole part this section
01:56:057 (116057|2) - hitsound on here should be on 01:55:880 (115880|3) - already??
01:58:704 (118704|5,118704|6,119057|5,119057|1,119057|6) - its kind of weird to have this, where this one have 2 notes but the rest are 3
here is solution: actually i dont have any ideas here, but maybe may the next pattern go this way sound better http://puu.sh/tzBHK/0db492e5f5.png there an error note on first column has conflicted with LN ends, managed to make it 567 123 567 123
02:15:116 (135116|0,135116|2) - move to the right 1 column? it's not snare sound on here agian not good enough

[Infection]
00:38:939 - If the normal kick sound is 2 notes, on here should be 3 with melody on here added for strings melody
00:40:351 - same ^
00:40:704 - 4 notes compared with 00:39:292 - added maintain as 4 notes
01:58:704 - same goes with insane on this part, I think it's better to find a solution here done

That's all!

Anyway, here is the better BG resolution: http://puu.sh/tzCjy/bfade152f1.png

Call me back soon, gl
Last edited by ExPew , edited 1 time in total.
Another Lie
Another Lie

ExPew wrote:

i just want tell you guys to consider these things:
1) criticism =/= you are forced to follow/change as instructed.
2) if you feel uncomfortable, you have the freedom to create your own map without anyone hating about it. this is where the variation and diversity exist.
3) i have to repeat this again since you are clearly you missing the point. if they were that serious in disqus, they should have posted their thoughts in the thread itself to make it more constructive and relevant. contribute to the map if you need to justify your reason. make sure to understand the point at (1) above too.
4) those who said about not being skilled enough to play the chart, congratulations for showing your prejudice to the public.
5) to satisfy all players is not an easy task. keep in mind different people has different taste. you know how this works.
Totally agree with this 8-) 8-)
:cry: I don't have the past screenshot :cry:
ExPew
Elite Mapper
1,220 posts
Joined January 2011
Topic Starter
ExPew
updated.

the jack ending part was reverted like old qualified version.
Last edited by ExPew , edited 1 time in total.
Akasha-
Nomination Assessment Team
4,418 posts
Joined April 2013
Akasha-
BanYa & Warak - Beethoven Influenza [OsuMania modding]


[Generals]
- BPM: Okay
- Offset: Okay
- AiMod: Okay
- Tags: Okay
- BG: Okay
- Kiai: Okay
- Metadata: Okay
- Folder’s problem: None
- Hitsound: Okay
- Timing: Okay
- Other: Okay

Bubbled
(Cancer)

Congratulations!

Got myself check the map again, it should be totally fine now, at least to me. Best of luck!
juankristal
osu! Alumni
1,408 posts
Joined August 2010
juankristal
So, this is exactly what I am trying to avoid and I see this as even a little bit of a disrespect towards the whole community. Which is the main reason why I am doing this bubble pop.

And yes, you will have to convince me that the map deserves to be ranked for the map and not because it is mapped by yourself.


So, even if I try to not sound real rude this time, I cant really control myself that well anymore. I can understand if you are a person who wants to get content ranked, challenge the system, and believe that you are the best but sometimes you all guys are taking it way too far. This map was disqualified for a reason and that reason was the ending, which remained untouched and got rebubbled after some time.

So, before getting into the actual chart lets see what you said:

1) criticism =/= you are forced to follow/change as instructed.

Sure, you are sorta right. You are not doing it the right way tho. Criticism is used in a way to improve the mapset, to be more enjoyable and accepted and you are being way too arrogant to even listen. This is the mistake you are making, and I hope you can see it and change it in the future. If you cant take criticism then dont aim for ranked, its not the place for you (seriously, you can even use myself as an example, I dont rank maps and I am totally up for seeing super weird stuff and all that)

2) if you feel uncomfortable, you have the freedom to create your own map without anyone hating about it. This is where the variation and diversity exist.

You dont seem to understand the concept that people is telling you here. The map is meant to be unconfortable, I get that, and to be fair honest, I understand it and I think its a good thing to make challenging stuff as long as they make sense. This makes sense, sure, but there is also a limit and as it was suggested this should be nerfed. You are a strong image for the community, act as what you are and please guide people for the "right path" instead of using your popularity as a shield to do whatever you want abusing the system.
The problem isnt it being uncomfortable, its being super spiky (even tho the song should have a spike there, it shouldnt be that big of a jump, seriously, 25 note jack is no joke. Jesus, even 12 notes jacks are retarded)


I hope you can see its not about skill, is about making the map more reasonable. Stuff like this in general are uncommon to see ranked and if you want to do it, you have to do it right. AiAe was a mistake, so will this map be if it hits ranked. This will just be another excuse for any other mapper to say "I rank everything I want mapped as I want because I can" and thats exactly the mentality we have to avoid.


So now, chart wise I guess I have to speak for myself a little bit. The diff feels way too soft on the intro (which makes sense right, the intro isnt as jack heavy music wise) but in general you have to make your diff more dense if you want to make it something that makes sense as a whole. A map should have difficulty spikes if the song is asking for them but it should not be a gap from an intro where you use really safe pattering into 25 notes ring finger jack. In general for the end to make sense the map has to be a lot more dense in the pre-ending and even with that it would probably not be enough. I think the jacks in general of the ending are -alright- but still quite edgy. I imagine the best way to make it work is trying to split the jack work/ avoid the LN to have more space to work on, and pmuch what has been adviced so far.

To begin with, I think this shouldnt be ranked at this state because of coherence between the map itself and because the pattern usage is way to extreme for the ranked section now.

And even more seriously, Kuo Kyoka, I imagine there is a rule saying dont nominate stuff you cant judge right? I mean, Mazzerin stuff from STD is the first thing that comes to mind and I think this is a pretty similar comparision. Just leaving it there for you to think about it.

So yeah, now you can come and bash me, call me biased, but I dont want this chart to hit ranked and even less at this state. Hope I wasnt as rude as I think it sounded.

god this song is so awful jesus
richardfeder
1,056 posts
Joined March 2013
richardfeder
My dear Juan, did you pop this bubble on a bn's point of view with specific reasons regarding any technical issues presented in the mapset, or did you just pop it because you don't like Expew's attitude and the fact that he declined mods with legit justification? I do believe that, despite mapper's attitude is a huge factor in the ranking process, we do not veto a map just because its owner is an asshole(and Expew is not an asshole, nor is he trying to be arrogant and shit at people). Modders are here to express their opinions and offer helps to the map, but here to not change one's attitude.

And why is it necessary for him to convince you, but not anyone else, that this map deserves to be ranked?
BNs believe this map is ready and they upvote this map with their icons. Do they need your confirmation to put this mapset forward?
Expew clearly targets at a certain group of players who enjoy his interpretation of music and his style of mapping. Given the fact that how many people showed their supports by posting on the forum and added the map as their favs, it is super clear that this map deserves a spot in the ranked mappool. It seems that you are not in the targeted group and you don't like the music at all. But is that the reason for you to pop the bubble?

The map doesn't violet any written rules in the RC. You said that this map was disqualified for a reason and it has not yet been addressed. What I can see from both disqualification posts is that, QATs put this down for spaces to discuss and Expew to justify his mapping or make any changes if necessary, and Expew indeed went through mods and replied. Did you interpret the disqualification post as a denial to certain part of the map? No one disqualified this map because any parts are absolutely unacceptable and have to be changed because they violate RC or anything. Indeed the jack part is not considered as common sense in mania mapping by some people, but there are also folks who like it and are looking forward to see how pros, or themselves, smash through that part. In their opinion, the jack parts are absolutely an authentic expression of the music and are parts that make this map special.

We are not at the stage where ranked mappool are filled with map spamming unreasonable jack patterns(btw jacks patterns used in this map are super legit in my opinion). We are not at the stage where we have too many shitty 7k get ranked and we have to put a break on it. BNs and people who like this map approved it because we need and want to push certain styles that are not ordinary, and why not give it a try? Why not just take it as a "test the water" case and see what happen next? If really no one likes it at all, I believe both Expew and BNs will reevaluate the situation and adjust based on the feedback and comments, and stop ranking maps like this in the furture. What I see right now is that there are enough supports from both mappers/bns and players, but you still don't even want to give a try, and pop the bubble solely because you don't like the Expew's attitude, his refusal of changing his style, and probobally you don't like the music.

The gap is not a problem in my opinion. The song doesn't sound that hard at the intro and I don't think adding unnecessary notes or switching to a harder, unfit patterns just for consistency for the whole diff worth at all. A map definitely makes sense even though it has parts that are way easier than other parts (people even insert breaks in very high level diff).

I am sorry for being salty but I do want to question the decision you made several hours ago. I hope you can reconsider what you did and what it meant to the mapping community. I apologize if my words sound aggressive to you and anyone else. I just want to know why you refuse to move the situation forward. Your post will only push this mapset to the graveyard, since you even did not give a direction where this map should go.
Sandalphon
1,470 posts
Joined May 2013
Sandalphon

juankristal wrote:

And even more seriously, Kuo Kyoka, I imagine there is a rule saying dont nominate stuff you cant judge right? I mean, Mazzerin stuff from STD is the first thing that comes to mind and I think this is a pretty similar comparision. Just leaving it there for you to think about it.
So because the current map/pattern is not YOUR taste or the map/pattern isn't up to the standard YOU want, by that you can just say he is not capable of this?

He mod this map more than several times, there are efforts and actual works behind this bubble icon.
Unlike someone who just walk into the thread, give one long essay (Which some of the points are valued, i agree) but without giving any timing point, any suggestions on how to improve the mapping quality, plus 80% of the points are whether "Personal" or "Community think"instead of being "Subjective". Do you think this person is capable of popping this map? Dont think so.
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze

YaHao wrote:

So because the current map/pattern is not YOUR taste or the map/pattern isn't up to the standard YOU want, by that you can just say he is not capable of this?

He mod this map more than several times, there are efforts and actual works behind this bubble icon.
Unlike someone who just walk into the thread, give one long essay (Which some of the points are valued, i agree) but without giving any timing point, any suggestions on how to improve the mapping quality, plus 80% of the points are whether "Personal" or "Community think"instead of being "Subjective". Do you think this person is capable of popping this map? Dont think so.
hey so I'd like to point out that when that rule came into fruition the implication was that the nominator can play the map he's nominating or at least be at a level where he can almost play it, because you can't really properly judge hard af map with just theory, you gotta be able to FEEL how it plays unless the map does pretty standard things but faster

this is not common charting, this is controversial and every feedback given that does not contain words "yes this map is great" is taken as an attack not by one person but by a whole flock of people who hastily come back here to shove that opinion down the drain.

if you can't play this chart you don't understand how big of a strain 25 note long jack is compared to even 20 or 15, so that's already a good reason to pop imo

especially since the only BNs I think can play this properly are nivrad and evening (I can't, KK can't, you SY also can't, let's be real here)
yes of course, there is an argument about objective quality being just as or more important than playability, but not in cases so controversial as this one

if you're going to get your map into a ranked state, you're gonna have to go for compromises and not this:

ExPew wrote:

updated.

the jack ending part was reverted like old qualified version.
this is a dangerous precedent to set, "I can just ignore QAT's reasons and do whatever I want, that guy did it as well lol", that can honestly dig even deeper hole for mania ranking process that it's already in

just my 100 pesos
Sandalphon
1,470 posts
Joined May 2013
Sandalphon
Be able to play surely will help you a lot on judging a map, but that's not everything. Of course, "just theory" is not gonna stand either.

Let's quit arguing whether a BN can or not judge this map, its pointless and i dont think this can do any help to the map itself, plus i can find many examples of BN icon a map which is beyond his playing skill. http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/5771261

Less talking, some actual work (like a proper mod) to improve the map will be helpful, or even quote the QAT mod if not agree with pew's reply to them, cause i dont see any of you two did that.

Edit: FYI, I full combo the last 24 jacks https://youtu.be/5zocQgqsweQ?t=2m40s (change the HP to 8 last time i play and forget to change back, lazy to record again so)
Last edited by Sandalphon , edited 1 time in total.
juankristal
osu! Alumni
1,408 posts
Joined August 2010
juankristal

YaHao wrote:

Be able to play surely will help you a lot on judging a map, but that's not everything. Of course, "just theory" is not gonna stand either.

Let's quit arguing whether a BN can or not judge this map, its pointless and i dont think this can do any help to the map itself, plus i can find many examples of BN icon a map which is beyond his playing skill. http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/5771261

Less talking, some actual work (like a proper mod) to improve the map will be helpful, or even quote the QAT mod if not agree with pew's reply to them, cause i dont see any of you two did that.
Hey that is the next map I was planning to pop. Don't spoil my stuff :(

Anyways, right now I am in a train so I can't really answer properly but I will once I get back to home.

And besides it helping the map or not it is a rule, if you don't follow the rules you can get kicked. I got striked once for not and I hope the rules applies for everyone.


There is a balance, mappers and players perspective and this map only satisfies one (and yet in a questionable way I think it can still be more Jacky if you want to) and it has to satisfy both. Richard calls the map has many favourites and support... From who? Players who actually can play the difficulty? Players who want to take the challenge? I mean if this exploded it means something and it's that's being taken too far.
Halogen-
Former osu!mania 4K Champion: 2015
574 posts
Joined September 2009
Halogen-

YaHao wrote:

juankristal wrote:

And even more seriously, Kuo Kyoka, I imagine there is a rule saying dont nominate stuff you cant judge right? I mean, Mazzerin stuff from STD is the first thing that comes to mind and I think this is a pretty similar comparision. Just leaving it there for you to think about it.
So because the current map/pattern is not YOUR taste or the map/pattern isn't up to the standard YOU want, by that you can just say he is not capable of this?

He mod this map more than several times, there are efforts and actual works behind this bubble icon.
Unlike someone who just walk into the thread, give one long essay (Which some of the points are valued, i agree) but without giving any timing point, any suggestions on how to improve the mapping quality, plus 80% of the points are whether "Personal" or "Community think"instead of being "Subjective". Do you think this person is capable of popping this map? Dont think so.
Let's do everyone a favor and drop the condescending tone here. You're targeting juankristal for his point and acting as if he's the only one that has expressed any sort of concern about this map being ranked. I'm gonna cut straight to the point here and not beat around the bush: you're trying to abuse intersubjectivity to get something absolutely ridiculous ranked, because "it follows ranking requirements" and therefore, should be allowed. The fact of the matter is that there's been a clear disrespect by ExPew because a section that was previously reverted as suggested by others has been added back into the map. That's not alright under any circumstance — that screams "well, others have vetted this, that means it is ok."

This is precisely why the BN playability rule exists. I'd agree that beatmap nominators should also have the ability to "consult" other individuals for the purpose of playtesting if they're trying to make something experimental/exceptionally difficult, but you wouldn't even be able to do that in this case, as I'm pretty certain most players that you are targeting with your difficulty would not like to play it. This map has had minimum exposure, and has already produced a negative ratio of ratings: in fact, your scores are so polarized within those ratings that I'm willing to bet the people who rated you high are the ones that supported the map (and not necessarily the ones who have to play it).

As Kamikaze said: you cannot judge a map purely on theoretical ability. There are playability standards that should be adhered to, and the highest difficulty on this map is far from it. When you're going out of your way to get a bubble on this map, you are acknowledging that you have intent to expose this file to players, and you can't just insert something that you want because it "feels right." A 25-note 1/4 chord jack at 170 BPM is simply not acceptable under any constraint: I don't care in this particular case that it is an atonal repetition, and I wouldn't care if it was a repeated piano chord or something that would "theoretically merit" that kind of patterning: you wouldn't do it in any case because it's largely unplayable and is a huge difficulty spike with comparison to the rest of the map.

richardfeder wrote:

...did you pop this bubble on a bn's point of view with specific reasons regarding any technical issues presented in the mapset, or did you just pop it because you don't like Expew's attitude and the fact that he declined mods with legit justification? I do believe that, despite mapper's attitude is a huge factor in the ranking process, we do not veto a map just because its owner is an asshole(and Expew is not an asshole, nor is he trying to be arrogant and shit at people). Modders are here to express their opinions and offer helps to the map, but here to not change one's attitude.
The purpose of beatmap modding is to get the map to the highest quality out of the beatmap. Those who are modding don't have to change one's attitude in most cases — however, when you have players who absolutely dislike the map, and various impartial people saying that the structure is basically unplayable/unenjoyable, that should be an immediate red flag that something like this is an issue. While juankristal might not have been the best at making his point by adding a bit of a tactless statement about the song/map, the point is that this map presents a serious issue for another reason as well:

juankristal wrote:

I hope you can see its not about skill, is about making the map more reasonable. Stuff like this in general are uncommon to see ranked and if you want to do it, you have to do it right. AiAe was a mistake, so will this map be if it hits ranked.
The moment something like this hits ranked, it's going to assist in setting a precedence that states "well, ExPew managed to get this kind of map ranked, I should be able to do it too." This kind of mentality enables a snowfall effect that transcends this single map for the purpose of ranks: people will feel like they have the ability to "innovate" or "try something new" in a map, and to be perfectly honest: this isn't any sort of novelty or groundbreaking. It's just abusive patterning in a short section of the song that delivers nothing more than a substantial difficulty spike.

richardfeder wrote:

The map doesn't violet any written rules in the RC. You said that this map was disqualified for a reason and it has not yet been addressed. What I can see from both disqualification posts is that, QATs put this down for spaces to discuss and Expew to justify his mapping or make any changes if necessary, and Expew indeed went through mods and replied. Did you interpret the disqualification post as a denial to certain part of the map? No one disqualified this map because any parts are absolutely unacceptable and have to be changed because they violate RC or anything. Indeed the jack part is not considered as common sense in mania mapping by some people, but there are also folks who like it and are looking forward to see how pros, or themselves, smash through that part. In their opinion, the jack parts are absolutely an authentic expression of the music and are parts that make this map special.
I think you're disregarding the fact that, if I'm interpreting the context correctly within the course of the thread and the post that ExPew made: he nerfed the ending with respect to criticisms provided, only to decide to put it back right at the end of the map's modding cycle (basically post Kuo's bubble). And the whole concept of this map not violating any written rules of the RC is a stupid excuse, let's drop that right at the door — it's a pathetic excuse of a shield for the purpose of trying to let something that has been established as subjectively incorrect and poorly done by both mappers and players (polarization in rankings). I've yet to see anyone that the difficulty aims to target, who is impartial to the situation, react positively about the structure of this map. In fact, I personally was tipped off about this map's infamy for the same reason that this map was disqualified, and alone speaks volumes. This is not something that should pass.

A good mapper knows how to express the music properly, while still making it approachable for the players who want to play it. This is not approachable under any circumstance. If my memory serves me correctly, even jakads, who is #1 in the game statistically at the moment, a player that has spent time crushing all varieties of maps in the game, was not able to properly play the ending of your not even 6* map.

Drop your pride at the door and make the necessary changes to make this more playable. You've actually got a song with incredible potential to make something really technical, but you need to do it the right way.
ExPew
Elite Mapper
1,220 posts
Joined January 2011
Topic Starter
ExPew
as your wish, i nerf at ending part like you said it's "retarded"
but i rework the rating HP/OD to getting more "strict"


more reply comes later, i'm tired now.
17VA
1,007 posts
Joined September 2012
17VA
BN who isn't 7K player must not judge 7k maps. It is reasonable pattern and very common on bms charts.
Those jacks are not so great for LR2 ★ users and lv60+ o2 users and enjoyable enough.
Sandalphon
1,470 posts
Joined May 2013
Sandalphon
Please read the previous posts/discussion before you post something like this in thread
Kawawa
Kawawa
Let me say one thing because guys focusing on the jack strain.
first of all I think It's not impossible.

Players also already playing similar tempo with this(recently DT patch)
If I compared with something.
https://puu.sh/va1ae/5e05342095.jpg
LEFT :: C18H27NO3(extend) 4K DT burst one(310 BPM)
RIGHT :: Beethoven will be calculated as 340 BPM(because It used only one hand)

maybe it can be ridiculous that I brought 4K and DT.
nevertheless It shows the player can play. how much player can passed it?

It must be reasonable? If It mapped as 4K, I might It would be 12/34 for your reasonable.
you know why It is keeping this chart for what. yes It's already reasonable(like Lachryma https://puu.sh/va4zX/4c8b44ddc2.jpg)
It is how mapper expressed the music. If It must be your taste, always will be map like that.
Neither is right, I agree that patterns are uncomfortable, but sometimes you have to throw away the stereotypes.
This is the reason why I still supporting those chart. and I am the one who can judge this map except evening. why not? lmao
Anyway It's up to expew.
Halogen-
Former osu!mania 4K Champion: 2015
574 posts
Joined September 2009
Halogen-
you're making comparisons with things that people have to utilize mods to attain - saying that "(x) can be done on DT" doesn't make it right because players are making the choice to do that; C18 gets that high through modifications and players are doing that by choice - so yes, it's a ridiculous point because you're trying to separate the difference of player who are opting to play (C18) on extremes and players that will be -forced- to play (Beethoven) these extremes

the extremes in C18 are stupid, like many other maps on DT; they are by no means representations of proper ways to map things and people who try to rank things like that will very likely be shot down in the same way

lachryma's ending trill is not even close to relevant to this issue because arguing physical capabilities (C18/Beethoven) against coordination capabilities - scoreboards very clearly indicate that players are capable of doing this and maps similar to this (see: kamui)

irrelevant points to shield something like this do nothing but cause more issues.

EDIT: mfw juan posts nearly the exact same thing only 5 seconds apart lol
Last edited by Halogen- , edited 1 time in total.
juankristal
osu! Alumni
1,408 posts
Joined August 2010
juankristal
Uhh, did someone said it is impossiblle?

I mean yeah, sure, I cant think of an example from the top of my head of people doing a lot of stuff that is way harder than this, and again, that is not the point.

Kawawa, do you realize how silly and nonsensical your comparison is? You are comparing two charts that have similar issues, spiky at one specific point (and not only that, you are also comparing one of the most dirty pp mappings ever created for a map that is 4K when we are having a 7K beatmap here).


You are comparing a pattern that requires holding with one hand, jacking with another with a pattern that you just have to jumptrill at a "slower" speed and you are also comparing two "different gamemodes". Its like saying hey, since mania can do, lets say 250 bpm one hand trills, lets just map a deathstream map for STD since yeah, mania 4k people can do it so why not STD?

And not only that, you are comparing a map with DT with a nomod map. A map that is only played with DT because of the pp it awards being completely out of place. Why dont you try to get a split jumptrilll 4K at that speed ranked and see how many people can hold that as easy as they hold with C18, you are comparing an apple with a beef, this is all different kind of stuff.


And again, how many times I have to repeat myself, the problem relays on extreme patterns yes, but it also relays on the chart being extremely spiky to a point that shouldnt. ExPew already changed the ending to something I find a lot more reasonable so if he is up to continue with that I am fine with it.
Halogen-
Former osu!mania 4K Champion: 2015
574 posts
Joined September 2009
Halogen-

Kawawa wrote:

Players also already playing similar tempo with this(recently DT patch)
If I compared with something.
https://puu.sh/va1ae/5e05342095.jpg
LEFT :: C18H27NO3(extend) 4K DT burst one(310 BPM)
RIGHT :: Beethoven will be calculated as 340 BPM(because It used only one hand)

maybe it can be ridiculous that I brought 4K and DT.
nevertheless It shows the player can play. how much player can passed it?

Halogen- wrote:

The moment something like this hits ranked, it's going to assist in setting a precedence that states "well, ExPew managed to get this kind of map ranked, I should be able to do it too." This kind of mentality enables a snowfall effect that transcends this single map for the purpose of ranks: people will feel like they have the ability to "innovate" or "try something new" in a map, and to be perfectly honest: this isn't any sort of novelty or groundbreaking. It's just abusive patterning in a short section of the song that delivers nothing more than a substantial difficulty spike.
holy shit it's like i'm psychic :o
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