Guest
home
beatmaps
rankings
community
store
help
forum
  1. Forums
  2. osu!
  3. Gameplay & Rankings

Is Hidden worthless for PP?

posted
Total Posts
28
autoteleology
763 posts
Joined October 2014
Topic Starter
autoteleology
I've had this happen to me twice now, but I am particularly incensed by it this time because I just lost my top play to whatever this process is.

What's the problem? Say I FC a map on DT at 99% and gain a bucketload of PP. I then proceed to FC the map on DTHD at 98%, gain several hundred thousand points, passing my previous DT score, yet I lose a huge percentage of the PP I earned from the DT score. It's almost as if the Hidden was completely worthless or even detrimental to my PP.

Why is this? I'm not completely anal about PP like some people are, but seemingly getting penalized for accomplishing an arguably much harder task seems like a slap in the face to me.
E m i
E m i

Philosofikal wrote:

FC a map on DT at 99%

Philosofikal wrote:

FC the map on DTHD at 98%
yes, you lost acc. when you play maps where most of the pp comes from acc, you can lose pp that way.
the 2% acc bonus from hidden is usually worthless in situations like the one you described, but the 18% aim bonus gets pretty crazy at high star maps.
hidden is very good for PP if you can read it and don't lose acc.
7ambda
2,560 posts
Joined January 2015
7ambda
The closer you get to 100%, the more pp you get, even 1% can make a big difference. HD isn't worthless, you've just got to get the same accuracy or better with DT.
bigfeh
1,149 posts
Joined January 2013
bigfeh
Understand that 99% HDDT > 99% DT, but 98% HDDT < 99% DT

As said, acc is what determines most of your pp gain. There are differences in weighting on particular maps (between acc, max combo, score etc.) but mostly it's accuracy.
winber1
4,520 posts
Joined February 2010
winber1
1% can make a difference of 100pp in certain cases fyi

and hidden increases pp gain
xasuma
The First Completionist
1,011 posts
Joined August 2013
xasuma
Not worthless. Sometimes the gain is not great though. Depending on how aim focused the map is.
autoteleology
763 posts
Joined October 2014
Topic Starter
autoteleology
Is it like this for every other mod except for DT?
bigfeh
1,149 posts
Joined January 2013
bigfeh

Philosofikal wrote:

Is it like this for every other mod except for DT?
Like what? Look, there's a formula behind all that. Here's a breakdown of how it works:
• Mapper maps map. Map gets ranked
• System looks at map. Gives map pp rating based on some factors
• System applies mod to map, looks at map again, gives it new rating based on same criteria
(This part is important. You have to understand that the map's pp is recalculated with the mods due to the effect they apply in the case of HR and DT/NC. As for HD/FL, each apply bonuses to the final pp gain)

(EDIT: Turns out I didn't even bother to look at the fucking graph I provided because apparently my brain was molten back then. Fuck me, I'm a retard. No, pp isn't at all based on score and the third axis is in fact the pp you get. Sorry about that)
Note to self: don't post at 3 am anymore

The pp rating is not a single curve because it's not based on only two axes - it's based on three: Score the pp you get, which is determined by the two other axes: combo and accuracy (the latter being the most important)
Here's how it looks:


It's 3:30 am so I'm going to get some sleep. Here's hoping nobody's brains melt before I come back
Last edited by bigfeh , edited 1 time in total.
DahplA
1,099 posts
Joined March 2014
DahplA
It does, but at lower star maps doesn't give too much. Higher maps however, with addition of either DT or HR will give a good amount.
E m i
E m i

bigfeh wrote:

. Here's hoping nobody's brains melt before I come back
my brain melted because of 'pp is based on score'
ZenithPhantasm
ZenithPhantasm

bigfeh wrote:

Philosofikal wrote:

Is it like this for every other mod except for DT?
Like what? Look, there's a formula behind all that. Here's a breakdown of how it works:
• Mapper maps map. Map gets ranked
• System looks at map. Gives map pp rating based on some factors
• System applies mod to map, looks at map again, gives it new rating based on same criteria
(This part is important. You have to understand that the map's pp is recalculated with the mods due to the effect they apply in the case of HR and DT/NC. As for HD/FL, each apply bonuses to the final pp gain)

The pp rating is not a single curve because it's not based on only two axes - it's based on three: Score, combo and accuracy (the latter being the most important)
Here's how it looks:


It's 3:30 am so I'm going to get some sleep. Here's hoping nobody's brains melt before I come back
Nice nerd graph that I seem to be able to understand.
uberpancake
160 posts
Joined December 2012
uberpancake
Pp is not based on score at all. Just figured I'd throw that in.
Synpoo
616 posts
Joined August 2013
Synpoo
pp is based
Genki1000
106 posts
Joined August 2013
Genki1000
Once you get good enough at using HD it won't really make a difference to your accuracy. Until then, yes HD probably won't help you gain pp.

Also not completely unrelated: acc can matter quite a bit depending on the map <- the map is 3.70 stars after adding mods
GhostFrog
416 posts
Joined March 2013
GhostFrog
If you learn to play hidden as well as you play nomod, it's basically a 7% bonus to your overall pp, but if you have to tank your accuracy in order to play hidden, you'll get more pp without it.

To put that in a form that probably makes it sound more fair, you get a lot of pp from hidden if you're good at it and nothing if you suck with it.
B1rd
2,974 posts
Joined December 2013
B1rd
Not many people can play hidden as well as nomod, I'd say it gives a pretty fair amount of pp for the time invested in practising it, probably more than it's worth once you start playing higher ARs. For most people I don't think it's worth using HD when you're playing at your limit as it'll make the map much harder to FC and probably give the same or less pp because it's harder to acc. But it's useful to get pp from easier maps, I find HD doesn't make easier maps too much harder to read, besides annoying hidden notes.
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Vuelo Eluko
Hidden makes my aim 200% snappier, which i think is good for practicing.

when it comes to streams i dont even know how i hit them with hidden on, it feels like im not even playing them its so awkward but i still almost always do them perfectly
Last edited by Vuelo Eluko , edited 1 time in total.
Sophia
266 posts
Joined December 2013
Sophia
Can play with HD no problem. Aim/Acc is just roughly the same as no mod.
bigfeh
1,149 posts
Joined January 2013
bigfeh

[ Momiji ] wrote:

bigfeh wrote:

. Here's hoping nobody's brains melt before I come back
my brain melted because of 'pp is based on score'

uberpancake wrote:

Pp is not based on score at all. Just figured I'd throw that in.
edited fuck me for being a sleep deprived retard
Yuudachi-kun
5,432 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
pp is correlated with score.
nrl
1,402 posts
Joined October 2011
nrl

bigfeh wrote:

graph
DUDE THAT GRAPH IS SO BALLER PLEASE POST ANOTHER
Nameless
517 posts
Joined April 2014
Nameless
Hidden does give you a bit more PP, so I wouldn't say it's useless. If you can hidden FC a song, then do that instead of doing it without mods, unless your accuracy is a lot worse with hidden.
bigfeh
1,149 posts
Joined January 2013
bigfeh

Narrill wrote:

bigfeh wrote:

graph
DUDE THAT GRAPH IS SO BALLER PLEASE POST ANOTHER



figured it was probably sarcasm but you asked for it
ripped off from this
Lagel
181 posts
Joined October 2014
Lagel

I got around 129pp on the 99%, and then 126pp for the hidden
It's not massive but it's a difference, i imagine as you go for harder maps 1% could be 100pp
gh0st-
49 posts
Joined December 2013
gh0st-
HD is love, HD is life.
bigfeh
1,149 posts
Joined January 2013
bigfeh

Lagel wrote:


I got around 129pp on the 99%, and then 126pp for the hidden
It's not massive but it's a difference, i imagine as you go for harder maps 1% could be 100pp
1% never means 100pp. I'm not sure whether you're complaining that you lost pp or wanting to make a point that HD is worth a decent amount of pp.

You lost about 1.13% and so 3pp is shit difference. If that play was nomod, it'd be worth about 15-20pp less
Lagel
181 posts
Joined October 2014
Lagel

bigfeh wrote:

1% never means 100pp. I'm not sure whether you're complaining that you lost pp or wanting to make a point that HD is worth a decent amount of pp.

You lost about 1.13% and so 3pp is shit difference. If that play was nomod, it'd be worth about 15-20pp less
Not complaining at all, just making a point
bigfeh
1,149 posts
Joined January 2013
bigfeh

Lagel wrote:

bigfeh wrote:

1% never means 100pp. I'm not sure whether you're complaining that you lost pp or wanting to make a point that HD is worth a decent amount of pp.

You lost about 1.13% and so 3pp is shit difference. If that play was nomod, it'd be worth about 15-20pp less
Not complaining at all, just making a point
Would I be correct in assuming it's

bigfeh wrote:

that HD is worth a decent amount of pp.
?
Please sign in to reply.

New reply

0
1 / 28