To improve my reading skills, do I play Lower AR on harder maps? or do I play harder maps with higher AR? (Ar10 edited or HardRock)?
I saw a thread about this but can't find it
I saw a thread about this but can't find it
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Reading skills
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Depends whether you want to get better at reading low ar or high ar?EqnarxirT wrote:
To improve my reading skills, do I play Lower AR on harder maps? or do I play harder maps with higher AR? (Ar10 edited or HardRock)?
I saw a thread about this but can't find it
Topic Starter
Obviously higher, but I want to improve my reading skills that includes patterns, high ar, sliders, hidden etcGenki1000 wrote:
Depends whether you want to get better at reading low ar or high ar?EqnarxirT wrote:
To improve my reading skills, do I play Lower AR on harder maps? or do I play harder maps with higher AR? (Ar10 edited or HardRock)?
I saw a thread about this but can't find it
if reading is a seriouis issue for you definitely shouldnt even consider touching any AR above (maybe not even above 8, i didnt start playing AR9 until like rank 38k and didnt consider myself able to read it until like 30k) it would also help to know what you consider difficult to read
play GOOD old low ar maps (finding these is up to you, if you wade through the thousands of crap maps you'll eventually find something nice)
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/21566
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/106359&m=0#
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/19787#
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/29883&m=0#
play GOOD old low ar maps (finding these is up to you, if you wade through the thousands of crap maps you'll eventually find something nice)
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/21566
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/106359&m=0#
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/19787#
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/29883&m=0#
Topic Starter
It's not serious for gods sake, I have A ranks on HR/DT on AR8-9 maps... I just want to IMPROVE my reading, like Imagine "x" being circles... now we pretend i'm playing ar10... the cirecles come in this order XXX XX XXX, that's triplets + double (single taps) + triplets... I would tap them as XZX Z ZX and my fingers get confued, I wouldn't tap XZX XZ XZX for some reason and I believe it's because I can't read that, and this happens on any approach rate.-Ruri no Tori- wrote:
if reading is a seriouis issue for you definitely shouldnt even consider touching any AR above (maybe not even above 8, i didnt start playing AR9 until like rank 38k and didnt consider myself able to read it until like 30k) it would also help to know what you consider difficult to read
play GOOD old low ar maps (finding these is up to you, if you wade through the thousands of crap maps you'll eventually find something nice)
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/21566
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/106359&m=0#
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/19787#
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/29883&m=0#
E m i
Typically, when people talk about "reading" they mean being able to understand a pattern and how to play it just by looking at it. (if it is the first time you encounter it it's called "sightreading")
Actually you can train different kinds of reading, like
I'd suggest you just keep playing whatever you like for now. It's a bit early for you to go into AR10 already, because you need a good foundation to play HR, so focus on the basics first! =)
Edit:
You can't improve your reading in general and then magically hit perfect triples...you have to play triples to...well...get good at triples, you know.
Actually you can train different kinds of reading, like
- reading high AR itself comfortably
- reading low AR itself comfortably
- reading any kind of AR with increased hit object density (like lowering the AR so more objects appear on screen than usual)
- reading specific (confusing) patterns
etc.
I'd suggest you just keep playing whatever you like for now. It's a bit early for you to go into AR10 already, because you need a good foundation to play HR, so focus on the basics first! =)
Edit:
If it happens at any AR, it means that the speed is too high for you to hit the triples correctly. How to fix it? Play triples, it's as easy as it sounds.EqnarxirT wrote:
It's not serious for gods sake, I have A ranks on HR/DT on AR8-9 maps... I just want to IMPROVE my reading, like Imagine "x" being circles... now we pretend i'm playing ar10... the cirecles come in this order XXX XX XXX, that's triplets + double (single taps) + triplets... I would tap them as XZX Z ZX and my fingers get confued, I wouldn't tap XZX XZ XZX for some reason and I believe it's because I can't read that, and this happens on any approach rate.
You can't improve your reading in general and then magically hit perfect triples...you have to play triples to...well...get good at triples, you know.
or play bad old low ar maps like me. c:-Ruri no Tori- wrote:
play GOOD old low ar maps
Just like learning anything it's better to start slow, so practicing on "slow" (lower) ar will help you learn to properly read all ar. It's not just about seeing the hitcircles and hitting it relative to when it appeared, but focusing/reading each circle/approach circle and snapping to it.
If you want to play patterns better, go with EZ mod. If you want to get better at higher AR, play higher ARs. If you want to get better at HD, play hidden (EZ helps with hidden reading as well).
The problem of confused fingers you mention is not necessarily caused by poor reading, if you can successfully identify the pattern as triple double triple when you see it your reading is fine. It's more likely caused by poor muscle memory, and that's something you can only fix with practice.
As for training reading in general, what you need to do is train on maps that are either at the AR you wish to play or are at an AR that is in the direction of the AR you wish to play but is just outside your range of comfort and that have pattern complexity that is just outside your range of comfort at that AR (if you're playing at a higher AR than you're used to you'll likely want to shoot for patterns that are slightly less complex than what you're comfortable with). As long as all the other difficulty attributes of the map (aim, accuracy, speed, etc.) are appropriate you should see regular improvement.
Do not give in to the mindset that the best option is to train at ARs lower than your norm. Many will recommend it, but that recommendation stems from a misguided understanding of skill development, and while it will work eventually, it will not be as efficient as conventional training. It's worth noting, however, that if what you think is your appropriate AR is actually too fast you will need to step down to an AR that is actually appropriate for your reading skill. Naturally, the onus is on you to make that call.
As for training reading in general, what you need to do is train on maps that are either at the AR you wish to play or are at an AR that is in the direction of the AR you wish to play but is just outside your range of comfort and that have pattern complexity that is just outside your range of comfort at that AR (if you're playing at a higher AR than you're used to you'll likely want to shoot for patterns that are slightly less complex than what you're comfortable with). As long as all the other difficulty attributes of the map (aim, accuracy, speed, etc.) are appropriate you should see regular improvement.
Do not give in to the mindset that the best option is to train at ARs lower than your norm. Many will recommend it, but that recommendation stems from a misguided understanding of skill development, and while it will work eventually, it will not be as efficient as conventional training. It's worth noting, however, that if what you think is your appropriate AR is actually too fast you will need to step down to an AR that is actually appropriate for your reading skill. Naturally, the onus is on you to make that call.
Practicing low AR will help with high object density and improve overall reading.
But ar8 is disgusting 
Density is just one aspect of reading, and it needs to be trained in concert with all the other aspects so that they all improve in proper proportion with one another.B1rd wrote:
Practicing low AR will help with high object density and improve overall reading.
Not really sure what other reading aspects you're talking about, low AR maps are the same as high AR maps just with greater object density.
Complexity is the most obvious, and you can break that down into rhythmic complexity, visual complexity, and traversal complexity (differences in necessary cursor speed between notes, basically). Density itself can be broken down into a few different categories as well, such as visual density (this is what most people think of when they think of density, it's the number of objects visible to the player at any given time), object density (notes per unit of world time independent of AR), and rhythmic density (notes per unit of musical time independent of AR). And of course we have to remember that proficiency and speed are fairly orthogonal, so these must all be trained at varying speeds.
I'm just spitballing here, but it really does baffle me that people can justify the claim that reading is all about AR to themselves.
I'm just spitballing here, but it really does baffle me that people can justify the claim that reading is all about AR to themselves.
No one entirely understands how reading in osu! works. Play everything. Low AR, high AR, fast maps with low spacing, slow maps with high spacing, hidden, flashlight, dumb maps with sliders that make no sense. It will all help you out, often in ways you won't anticipate.
but above all, always ignore Narrill when he tells you not to play low AR
but above all, always ignore Narrill when he tells you not to play low AR
That was three sentences. Calm down.Synpoo wrote:
TIL osu! reading is a science
Perhaps in ways you won't anticipate, but certainly not in ways you can't rationalize after the fact. But that's beside the point, because all I'm suggesting is that the best way to train all your skills at once and in the proper proportions for what you're trying to accomplish is to train by trying the thing you're trying to accomplish. That's as straightforward as it gets.GhostFrog wrote:
It will all help you out, often in ways you won't anticipate.
but above all, always ignore Narrill when he tells you not to play low AR
The reality of the low AR debate is that somewhere along the line a high-ranking 14 year old tried playing EZ, couldn't read it at all, and jumped, as 14 year olds are prone to do, to the misguided conclusion that if he could read EZ he could read anything, and the vocal minority, consisting primarily of young teens who are either too immature to think beyond the actions of their favorite player or who are, in their teenage inexperience, drawn to the idea that something as counter-intuitive and unnecessarily difficult as EZ training could actually be a useful tool, latched on like it was the greatest thing since tablets. The rest of the community, while not quite as enthusiastic, tried it and found that it seemed to work, and now anyone who questions it is beaten into submission immediately and repeatedly with this single, bias-ridden piece of evidence.
Of course it works, I told you it would. The only thing keeping people from realizing that it doesn't work faster than what they were likely already doing is the bias introduced by its novelty.
Considering you're saying that based on no experience, your opinion is no more valuable than anyone else's.
Ultimately, you'll learn whatever skills you practice. If you train only on very "normal" maps, you'll learn how to play normal maps. If you play everything, you'll learn how to play everything and probably at around the same speed as you would have learned from your method (and if not, you'll be able to play a wider variety of maps anyway). Do I have any good evidence of that? Nope. Do you have any good evidence against it? Nope. It makes sense though - you can only focus on so much at once. You can be learning more precise aim, but only at a level of reading and at a speed at which you're comfortable. You can learn faster reading, but try doing that on a map where you have to put all your energy into streaming and you'll accomplish nothing. etc. Playing in such a way that individual skills are isolated in order to build up a solid foundation on which to build in theory should be the better approach. disclaimer i suck and ymmv, play low AR because i said so
Ultimately, you'll learn whatever skills you practice. If you train only on very "normal" maps, you'll learn how to play normal maps. If you play everything, you'll learn how to play everything and probably at around the same speed as you would have learned from your method (and if not, you'll be able to play a wider variety of maps anyway). Do I have any good evidence of that? Nope. Do you have any good evidence against it? Nope. It makes sense though - you can only focus on so much at once. You can be learning more precise aim, but only at a level of reading and at a speed at which you're comfortable. You can learn faster reading, but try doing that on a map where you have to put all your energy into streaming and you'll accomplish nothing. etc. Playing in such a way that individual skills are isolated in order to build up a solid foundation on which to build in theory should be the better approach. disclaimer i suck and ymmv, play low AR because i said so
I try to learn AR11, cuz it's the easiest one to read.
I reached rank 450 with less than 20k plays and less than 6 million hits. If my opinion on practice methods isn't valuable, whose is?GhostFrog wrote:
Considering you're saying that based on no experience, your opinion is no more valuable than anyone else's.
That is my method.GhostFrog wrote:
If you play everything, you'll learn how to play everything and probably at around the same speed as you would have learned from your method
It's very tempting to buy into that last sentence, and it's even more tempting to equate it with the paradigm you describe before it, but neither are actually the case. I absolutely agree that attempting to push too hard in too many areas at once will impede progress in all of them, but that doesn't mean the best option is to totally isolate each skill; skills don't exist in a vacuum, you need to train them in the context of other skills or when it comes time to put them into that context they'll all break down. It's better to train all of them at once, but at a degree that isn't overwhelming. You'll train each individual skill more slowly, but because you'll be training them all at once you'll move faster overall. And not only that, but over time you'll find that the point at which you become overwhelmed pushes outwards as well; you'll get better at playing outside your comfort zone, and this will allow you to train more aggressively over time (I'm not usually one for anecdotal evidence, but since I think you'll bring it up I'll mention that I'm not theorizing here, this is actually a phenomenon I discovered as I played).GhostFrog wrote:
you can only focus on so much at once. You can be learning more precise aim, but only at a level of reading and at a speed at which you're comfortable. You can learn faster reading, but try doing that on a map where you have to put all your energy into streaming and you'll accomplish nothing. etc. Playing in such a way that individual skills are isolated in order to build up a solid foundation on which to build in theory should be the better approach.
It takes a lot of concentration, and it's easy to screw up if you go too hard, but that's the optimal practice method.