for what do we have modding queues then? yes in this case is hard to get to it but not for all BNs =_=
Thanks for showing the BAT rules, that I didn't find. Well, the certain amount can be reached by modding and approving your friends, and doesn't require to approve less known mappers.Lanturn wrote:
If I was allowed to choose from a pool of promoted maps, then I wouldn't have a problem with this system. In fact, I'd personally love it. This also means that the mapper themself has taken the time (Except you Mr. NC here) to look over other mapsets so they in turn could improve on their own sets. It gives more value to the KDs
What I don't agree with is this supposed 'forced summoning' thing that the OP was mentioning. Many of the BNs are getting this image that they have to mod the map, which violates the freedom we've been given as said directly in the BAT rules (this) that we can mod what we want.
I really do support being able to move/duplicate your map thread to a special forum in the pending maps section such as "BN Ready Maps" and have it listed by star priority there. Of course the map would NEED the +12 SP required for a bubble before you could do this action. The 'bonus' thing would encourage BNs to look at it as well. This is honestly a win win situation as long as no one is forced to mod anything.
It might also help simulate the upcoming Modding v2 in some ways, which is a pretty awesome idea. I've honestly had an idea of opening a queue similar to this, where users could post there maps upon reaching certain criteria to let us BNs know which ones are possibly ready. I'm not sure if "buying" your way into this is the best option, but having a way to encourage BNs to check these maps is what we need, even if it is through bonuses.
BNs are already REQUIRED to icon a certain amount of maps, and mod as well. Having that little extra bonus would help them out lots.
Another reason why new mappers don't get as much attention is because of disqualifications, and this is partially why BNs don't like touching inexperienced mappers. There is a higher risk of a map getting DQ'd from them, and the penalty from a DQ is pretty big sadly.
I hope a system where users can nominate their own maps exists in the near future, (modding v2 should be doing this maybe?) but as I mentioned, we BNs should not be forced to.
So, you say too that to have mods, being a BN is required ? It shouldn't. Everybody should have equal chances to have BN mods.Lust wrote:
Everybody starts somewhere. Nobody looking at your map? Then mod to become a BN yourself and then mod for mod with the others once you do. Its not like the nominators are a closed group, work hard to hit that modder score and gain attention for your own work! It all builds up and certainly doesn't happen over night
Queues are always filled to the top. And when they open, it's a matter of seconds before they are filled again, mostly by other BNs and Elite Mappers having priority over newcomers.Lally wrote:
for what do we have modding queues then? yes in this case is hard to get to it but not for all BNs =_=
You are focusing too much in equality here. People failed to achieve equality in real life after millions of attempts, do you think it's possible in a video game?JudgeTheDude wrote:
Everybody should have equal chances to have BN mods.
This is where you've gone wrong. The BN is responsible for checking the map for unrankable issues, but the presence of these issues has everything to do with the mapper, as it is the mapper that caused them in the first place. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.JudgeTheDude wrote:
What is that Disqualification thing ? Maps getting out of the Qualified pool ? In that case, that would mean the BNs who nominated didn't really check the map, and Qualified too soon. It has nothing to do with the mapper, if it's as I supposed before. The BNs could just have modded and told what was wrong, and helped the mapper improve his map.
That's just more experienced mappers knowing they have to check queues often and working harder to spend the time to do so. If you spent as much time refreshing or checking queues as they did you'd get your fair share of first-come-first-served slots too, there's no priority involved.JudgeTheDude wrote:
Queues are always filled to the top. And when they open, it's a matter of seconds before they are filled again, mostly by other BNs and Elite Mappers having priority over newcomers.Lally wrote:
for what do we have modding queues then? yes in this case is hard to get to it but not for all BNs =_=
No, they are responsible for making sure maps are in best condition. Whether they live up to their responsibilities is to each his own.xxdeathx wrote:
The BN is responsible for checking the map for unrankable issues
nope, BN haves a choose to mod / bub / rankbaraatje123 wrote:
Genocide, that is an invalid comparison
Why?
For CtB mode for example, there are BN which are busy, thus not modding
There are BN who have queues, which are 24/7 closed
There are BN who take requests, only for songs they like
There are BN who only take requests from Ranked mappers, so that the map is at least of decent quality
This is already everyone from the CtB BN
If you don't apply to any of these 5 categories, you can NEVER get a CtB map/mapset ranked, or even bubbled
This at least makes sure there is a CtB BN who'll look at it
It may not be the best idea, but it's still helpful and neccessary due to herefor mentioned problem
I'm agree with death's quotexxdeathx wrote:
I have no good ideas either. we don't care about kudosu and I can't see a monthly quota working out for 100 BN unless there are enough of these requests out there.ikin5050 wrote:
Good idea, but then you need some guaruntee that a BN will mod it if you 'purchase' such a star
also some of those high SP problem maps are ignored by people for a reason, such as the map quality is low or song is really bad, and no one should be forced to spend a good chunk of their time modding something they don't like.
What I've meant is that if a BN puts a map as Qualified, and an other BN finds an urankable issue in it, the BN is as responsible as the mapper for letting this error stay. And what I also meant is that BNs do Qualify the maps. My point here was to explain why it would be better to only let them disqualify maps, just as the Ranking v2 should do.xxdeathx wrote:
This is where you've gone wrong. The BN is responsible for checking the map for unrankable issues, but the presence of these issues has everything to do with the mapper, as it is the mapper that caused them in the first place. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.JudgeTheDude wrote:
What is that Disqualification thing ? Maps getting out of the Qualified pool ? In that case, that would mean the BNs who nominated didn't really check the map, and Qualified too soon. It has nothing to do with the mapper, if it's as I supposed before. The BNs could just have modded and told what was wrong, and helped the mapper improve his map.
That's just more experienced mappers knowing they have to check queues often and working harder to spend the time to do so. If you spent as much time refreshing or checking queues as they did you'd get your fair share of first-come-first-served slots too, there's no priority involved.
My point is that even if it's stated in the rules that BN can choose what they mod, it shouldn't be everytime like this, they should also mod other maps. Do you think mappers that have a lot of BN friends and have the possibility to improve have more right to be in the Qualified section than mappers ignored by the BN ? I don't think so.Genocide wrote:
why you want to rush BN to check your map? to deserve your map into Qualification Section is HARD
if you want some shitposted by BN ok then, damn son
Also, if BN don't like your song, BN still want to check/mod yours? lel
edit:
nope, BN haves a choose to mod / bub / rank
Well, kudos for Star Priority are completely useless, since Star Priority is useless. So this feature should at least put some usefulness in it. I agree it won't give any advantage to Elite Mappers and BNs, but they don't need any. It's aimed towards newcomers who can't get modded by Bns because they don't have ranked maps, or they just don't have friends in the BN. It would allow them to improve, and have their map checked.Niko-nyan wrote:
I'm agree with death's quote
and kudos only for modding not to summon BN to mod our map
BNs is also human... 'w' and you know it...JudgeTheDude wrote:
What I've meant is that if a BN puts a map as Qualified, and an other BN finds an urankable issue in it, the BN is as responsible as the mapper for letting this error stay. And what I also meant is that BNs do Qualify the maps. My point here was to explain why it would be better to only let them disqualify maps, just as the Ranking v2 should do.
why don't try forum PM instead? some is open checking via forum PM. tho it's just about lucky your map get noticed or not... but at least it get more attention cause you ask it directly.JudgeTheDude wrote:
And about the queues, I spend 2 to 3 hours per day looking at the queues and refresh them, but all the time I posted in the modding queues of BNs, I got ignored, or it was full in some seconds, and since I only have a single ranked map, I can't apply to most of those queues anyway.
why don't try at least known by the BNs, BNs is on every channel. they are all friendly, moreover Osu! is a community, not single-man game.JudgeTheDude wrote:
My point is that even if it's stated in the rules that BN can choose what they mod, it shouldn't be everytime like this, they should also mod other maps. Do you think mappers that have a lot of BN friends and have the possibility to improve have more right to be in the Qualified section than mappers ignored by the BN ? I don't think so.
BNs can choose to mod/bub/rank, but I'll say it again, it's unfair for those who haven't got friends in the BN or haven't got a reputation yet. When you have so much rules in the BN queues preventing non-elite mappers to submit their maps, then there is a huge issue, and change is needed.
lolwut? Was that "do you want your map modded? Become BN first!" kind of statement? Just ubelieveable...Lust wrote:
Everybody starts somewhere. Nobody looking at your map? Then mod to become a BN yourself and then mod for mod with the others once you do. Its not like the nominators are a closed group, work hard to hit that modder score and gain attention for your own work! It all builds up and certainly doesn't happen over night
i'll try to say what lust want to sayNovalogic wrote:
lolwut? Was that "do you want your map modded? Become BN first!" kind of statement? Just ubelieveable...
You can have all my stars for the idea
Well, the "decent map" part isn't a real argument. BNs can't know if it's good or bad without checking it. So it implies they checked it in the first place.Arcubin wrote:
BNs is also human... 'w' and you know it...
it's not just mapper who get the negative stuff from DQed... the BNs also get penalty point
i'm new at mapping too, and asking BNs is the hardest part of getting your map ranked cycle. so the key for this is.... make sure your map is decent first. then ask BNs when they absolutely not doing anything urgent.
Already did that a lot. I managed to get an answer yesterday, for the first time in my 3 years of mapping. Looking at that awful ratio, I can say that it's not a very effective method, because most of the time you won't even get an answer.Arcubin wrote:
why don't try forum PM instead? some is open checking via forum PM. tho it's just about lucky your map get noticed or not... but at least it get more attention cause you ask it directly.
Osu shouldn't be about getting the highest relations possible to have better chances to enjoy the game. I love to play, I love to map, but I don't like to spend time talking to people who mostly (not all) see themselves above the others because of their rank.Arcubin wrote:
why don't try at least known by the BNs, BNs is on every channel. they are all friendly, moreover Osu! is a community, not single-man game.
i've much BNs friend... but it's still hard to find who is free to rank my map
Well, do you spend 2 years trying to rank a simple map, but can't because BN/BAT ignore your requests ? I don't think so. Yes, one of my maps is 2 years old.[ S a k u r a ] wrote:
Patient is the key
As I already stated, we shouldn't do that, normally. But looking at how new mappers are ignored, it may be a necessity. These mappers need Bns to improve their mapping, but get ignored by BNs because they aren't as good as Elite Mappers.Nwolf wrote:
You can't force a BN to mod specific maps so it won't help if you throw BN tokens a them tons of times. It will be about as ineffective as throwing lots of mod requests at the BN.
You still don't change that fact that Lust clearly said that to be ranked, you need to be a BN. Modding has nothing to do with that, since Kudosus are useless and don't help mappers in any way. And lots of BN clearly state in their queue, that you can M4M them, but it won't guarantee a mod in return (I don't have any example right now, I'm trying to fin the 2 BN queues where I saw that, and will post them once I've got them).Arcubin wrote:
i'll try to say what lust want to sayNovalogic wrote:
lolwut? Was that "do you want your map modded? Become BN first!" kind of statement? Just ubelieveable...
You can have all my stars for the idea
as long as you still modding (doing m4m in this case) you can get to BN more closely. after you get point of modding you can become BNs...
dude... why don't you literate them ;w;
Well, the "decent map" part isn't a real argument. BNs can't know if it's good or bad without checking it. So it implies they checked it in the first place. I actually really agree with Arcubin here. I'd much rather spend my time modding a mapset I feel comfortable icon'ing, rather than modding some first-try maps, which are full of issues and probably need a remap or two. Making your map decent before asking BNs to icon it is in my eyes common sense..JudgeTheDude wrote:
Arcubin wrote:
BNs is also human... 'w' and you know it...
it's not just mapper who get the negative stuff from DQed... the BNs also get penalty point
i'm new at mapping too, and asking BNs is the hardest part of getting your map ranked cycle. so the key for this is.... make sure your map is decent first. then ask BNs when they absolutely not doing anything urgent.
Following your logic, that means someone who has no ranked maps can't be checked by a BN, because it'll always be a "first try" map, who won't have any advice given by a BN. So, it will never be able to get ranked. I agree that a map should have a decent quality, but how can it have one if you can only be modded by low-rank modders ?appleeaterx wrote:
Well, the "decent map" part isn't a real argument. BNs can't know if it's good or bad without checking it. So it implies they checked it in the first place. I actually really agree with Arcubin here. I'd much rather spend my time modding a mapset I feel comfortable icon'ing, rather than modding some first-try maps, which are full of issues and probably need a remap or two. Making your map decent before asking BNs to icon it is in my eyes common sense..
I understand you want to mod maps that you know will be good, but how is that useful for the community ?appleeaterx wrote:
I said that I prefer / rather not, not that I refuse to mod maps from new mappers. I do mod maps made by mappers with no ranked maps, but the chances me doing that is much lower for the reason I said earlier.
I don't propose this feature for mappers to expect an icon. It's for them to have the point of view of someone who is experienced in mapping, and can, if the maps deserves it, icon it. Even if the mapper doesn't get the icon, he gets a mod with explanations on why and how he can improve his map, and what were the issues with it. Problem is that new mappers are stuck getting advice by other new mappers, so in the end, they don't improve a bit.neonat wrote:
I mod all kinds of maps, but the issue I have with this feature is the expectation the mapper might get for summoning the BN. They used up Kudos to get a BN to look at their map, but that does not mean that the map is good enough for any sort of icon, then in a sense that mapper might feel he had wasted that because the map is just not up to they expectation.
Another thing is about how they then 'summon'. How are the requests going to split up? How will it be spread evenly, how can mode-specific mapsets get the BNs who are more familiar with that mode? I am pretty sure Taiko and possibly CtB have the least number of BNs who are willing to mod those modes and if they get so many requests, how is that fair, when comparing to eg. Standard.
Because of this forced 'summon', it just puts more workload on them really, this is why everything should be done willingly, and the system should be kept that way
This isn't something as simple as just getting more. If it was that easy, there would already be more modding for CtB and Taiko, but that is not the case.JudgeTheDude wrote:
If they get too much request, that means we need more Bns. Simple as that, that would reduce the workload of the few BNs of the specified mode, and allow more people to have a chance to be checked by a BN, looking at the increased number of Nominators.
wow... why don't read ranking criteria then? it's list all the issues that unrankable...JudgeTheDude wrote:
Following your logic, that means someone who has no ranked maps can't be checked by a BN, because it'll always be a "first try" map, who won't have any advice given by a BN. So, it will never be able to get ranked. I agree that a map should have a decent quality, but how can it have one if you can only be modded by low-rank modders ?
You need BN mods to see what are the real issues in your map, and following your logic, it means having had BN mods before, which is impossible, following your logic.
fixedArcubin wrote:
ask them nicely is a good idea. if they won't... give up on mapping
You're probably misinterpreting what Lust meant. it's not that "you have to be BN to get a map ranked", but "if you don't like the fact that BNs don't mod newcomers' maps, then become a BN and help solving the issue yourself".JudgeTheDude wrote:
You still don't change that fact that Lust clearly said that to be ranked, you need to be a BN.
kinda pesimist and like coward answer.Novalogic wrote:
fixedArcubin wrote:
ask them nicely is a good idea. if they won't... give up on mapping
[ S a k u r a ] wrote:
Patient is the key
CDFA is alienArcubin wrote:
BNs is also human... 'w' and you know it...
wow... man. y u so rood... it's also your choice to keep up on mapping/modding or drop your work.Novalogic wrote:
fixedArcubin wrote:
ask them nicely is a good idea. if they won't... give up on mapping
wut... D: since when?Fort wrote:
CDFA is alienArcubin wrote:
BNs is also human... 'w' and you know it...
/me runs
There's always new anime seasons with openings to map :^)Riince wrote:
i didnt know BN's had quotas' what happens when they run out of tv size baby bubble berry love short ver neko ignite maps? will they be forced to rank good songs?
bninanutshell.pngRiince wrote:
i didnt know BN's had quotas' what happens when they run out of tv size baby bubble berry love short ver neko ignite maps? will they be forced to rank good songs?
Spectacular generalisation right there.AutoMedic wrote:
bninanutshell.pngRiince wrote:
i didnt know BN's had quotas' what happens when they run out of tv size baby bubble berry love short ver neko ignite maps? will they be forced to rank good songs?