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Taiko Questions and Advice Thread.

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Fudgy

Tanner wrote:

I'm very new to taiko and not sure if this has been asked yet:

I'm very accustomed to the mania ranking system where it's not a very big deal if you break combo, because score is barely based on combo at all. However, for taiko, I noticed it is an important part. So my question is, should I quit a map after a miss? It makes me very stressed out when I break a combo and have to restart, but should I just finish the song and see how I do instead of retrying for a single miss? It'll probably be an opinionated answer but I welcome any input. Thanks!
Combo doesn't affect pp in taiko in any way. Only accuracy and misses count. Where you miss doesn't matter at all.

Misses are also way less punishing compared to standard.
Tanner

Fudgyking wrote:

Tanner wrote:

I'm very new to taiko and not sure if this has been asked yet:

I'm very accustomed to the mania ranking system where it's not a very big deal if you break combo, because score is barely based on combo at all. However, for taiko, I noticed it is an important part. So my question is, should I quit a map after a miss? It makes me very stressed out when I break a combo and have to restart, but should I just finish the song and see how I do instead of retrying for a single miss? It'll probably be an opinionated answer but I welcome any input. Thanks!
Combo doesn't affect pp in taiko in any way. Only accuracy and misses count. Where you miss doesn't matter at all.

Misses are also way less punishing compared to standard.
I see, thanks for the answer! I thought it was the same as standard, but this seems a lot more similar to mania, although a little different. Great!

Don't want to make another post so I'll just edit this one, but how do I hit those longnote-looking things effectively(i think they're sliders or something)? if i go too fast it doesn't hit at all and I'm not sure what I'm supposed to hit in beat with for those.
Raiden

Tanner wrote:

I see, thanks for the answer! I thought it was the same as standard, but this seems a lot more similar to mania, although a little different. Great!

Don't want to make another post so I'll just edit this one, but how do I hit those longnote-looking things effectively(i think they're sliders or something)? if i go too fast it doesn't hit at all and I'm not sure what I'm supposed to hit in beat with for those.

Yeah, they are "drumrolls". Gotta hit the small dots inside of it (they follow somewhat the BPM and the rhythm). It should be pretty much intuitive. They don't affect combo nor accuracy, they are just a small score boost. THe same with shakers (spinners)
xEchoAlertx
Hi there! I'm starting to get to some of the 5+ star songs that involve streams that mix 1/4 and 1/6 rhythms, and I was wondering if people have any advice on how to deal with these sections. I don't play much of an alternate style at all: I lead with my right hand whenever I can, so when there's a triplet thrown in and I'm suddenly forced to continue the stream leading with my left hand, I become a train wreck. Would it be best if I relearned all the patterns, leading off with my left hand?

Oh and also, how do Geki work in Taiko? They're quite self-explanatory in standard, but I have no idea when/if I'm ever getting them in Taiko.
Raiden
Yes, you'll have to learn how to take streams with left hand, or start the triplets with left hand so the right hand leads inmediately after.

I have no idea what Geki means, they probably don't exist in Taiko since combo is pointless
xEchoAlertx
Alright, thank you! Guess I'll have to go back to some of the easy stuff and start working on my left hand patterns.

And in standard, Geki are awarded for finishing a phrase without missing, and give you an HP bonus. They have the phrase "(Elite beat!)" next to them on the scoreboard page where your best score vs. the top score is displayed; and furthermore on the scoreboards there's a column listing how many of them you achieved during a song, and that column exists and has nonzero values on some Taiko songs. But some players have SS scores and no Geki, while other players have [wildly varying amounts of] Geki on the same song, so I'm a little confused. Their existence or lack thereof doesn't seem to affect my (or your) playing, so I'm mostly just curious about them.
karterfreak
Geki was being used to display finisher hit total, but doesn't work for everyone. It's purely display and doesn't change score at all.
Catgirl
Geki shows up when you hit a finisher with both keys, but doesn't always display depending on your keyboard. The two keys have to be hit at exactly the same time for it to register as a Geki. It's easier on membrane keyboards than mechanical keyboards, I hardly get any Geki since I switched to a mech keyboard. The timing in-game for the finisher hits is much more lenient though, so the count of Geki hits means absolutely nothing for how many finishers were actually hit.

Also note that this was added in about a year ago, so all scores older than a year will have 0 Geki.
xEchoAlertx
Ah okay, that's good to know. Thank you for the explanation!
ArcticWind4
awesome work, guys.
[Ayase Eli]
thanks.
-Sh1n1-
lol I didn't notice about that, thanks
Raiden
IM GONNA SPAM EVERY SINGLE THREAD IN THIS SUBFORUM

t/407513 apply or i'll kill you all
Lumenite-
Wow it's fun when I'm the only poster in 3 months...

Anyway, I was just wondering if switching to a mechanical keyboard would have any effect (negative or positive) on my play style. I am starting to see some problems with using the standard MacBook keyboard...
hyliades

Taikocracy wrote:

Wow it's fun when I'm the only poster in 3 months...

Anyway, I was just wondering if switching to a mechanical keyboard would have any effect (negative or positive) on my play style. I am starting to see some problems with using the standard MacBook keyboard...

Initially a bad effect simply because mechanical keyboards drain your stamina faster, but in the end it should have a positive effect.
Borrow a keyboard from someone if you can before you buy one, people somewhat over hype mechanical keyboards.
2001

Taikocracy wrote:

Wow it's fun when I'm the only poster in 3 months...

Anyway, I was just wondering if switching to a mechanical keyboard would have any effect (negative or positive) on my play style. I am starting to see some problems with using the standard MacBook keyboard...

It really does depend on your playstyle and how you hit your keyboard. I personally mash my mechanical keyboard and even though it drains my stamina, the purpose of a mechanical keyboard is that you get a response and feedback when you hit the keyboard. I've played on a flat MacBook sort of keyboard before and I tend to get more 100's due to little response from the keyboard which puts me off on the song. But I can stream and tap notes quicker on a MacBook keyboard, so that's a good upside. Eitherway, try both and see how it works out for you.
morth1
Hey I'm still relatively new (only just starting to FC oni maps) and was wondering: When did you guys start playing hidden? I've tried it a little, but it gives me problems when it comes to accuracy. Accuracy is probably my weakest point regardless.
karterfreak
I'd say the best time to start doing hidden is once you can read nomod without much issue. If you're FCing oni maps then you're at a good point to start. It's a little tricky at first but once you invest enough time into it, it becomes practically the same as nomod reading wise unless there are slow Slider Velocity sections (low scroll speed).
Nyan
How can I contact BNs to request BN check?
CaseyZun
Hey guys, I started playing taiko around November of last year, and I think I have hit a wall skill wise. I cannot play inner oni or large patterns at all. Even "easier" inner oni patterns I can't do, for example ddkdkkd. I would play this (or try to play this) using jfkjkdj and I can't teach my hands to do anything else. I struggle with this on other patterns too where it feels like I am too dependent on my right hand to do everything. I have already downloaded the training maps from onosaki hito, and I can do the patterns and alternate in there but I cant put it to use in actual songs. I was just wondering If anyone else had this problem or had ways to get over It because I feel like this is one of the things that is holding me back. Thanks
Conor
.
BakaKatsu
Hey MMzz I was wondering if it was possible to use my electric drum kit to use for taiko
is that possible or do i need something specialin order to use it?
karterfreak
You can use most midi drum sets, might have to use xpadder or similar controller mapping software if it isn't detected in osu!. Will likely have to do some pretty serious global offset adjusting to have hits be accurate.
-Kazu-
I'm pretty sure it has more to do with my pc than osu itself but i will ask anyways.
Lately i've noticed that my acc gets owned by the fact my error margin is like -6ms~4ms , tilted for -x ms and it usually matches that box in the bottom-right which for me almost everytime is around 2-3ms, which i suppose it indicates input lag (not sure).
So, is there any way to fix that without trying to hit the notes 2ms later? :p
I think in mania you can modify a value for the hitposition, fixing the tilt in the margin error but it seems taiko doesnt feature that :/
Also, using global offset doesnt really work, i keep getting my error margin tilted :(
Purplehoboes
I could use some advice improving, as I seem to have hit a wall
Right now I'm just under 3000pp (honestly, I could probably get a couple hundred more without much struggling if I downloaded some more maps, but I want to get better, not farm pp on easy maps)
What's getting to me the most is streaming (I can stream in some maps up to 150ish bpm depending on the specific note patterns, but anything above that is pretty much impossible unless it's an easy pattern like ddkkddkk or ddddkkkk or dkkkdkkk)
Besides that, I've been trying to just increase my speed in general for the past couple weeks or so until I can play 200bpm more consistently, but I don't feel like I've improved at all in this time considering I can hardly score any higher on any maps I've done before.
What's the best way someone around my skill level could improve? Thanks in advance
karterfreak

Purplehoboes wrote:

I could use some advice improving, as I seem to have hit a wall
Right now I'm just under 3000pp (honestly, I could probably get a couple hundred more without much struggling if I downloaded some more maps, but I want to get better, not farm pp on easy maps)
What's getting to me the most is streaming (I can stream in some maps up to 150ish bpm depending on the specific note patterns, but anything above that is pretty much impossible unless it's an easy pattern like ddkkddkk or ddddkkkk or dkkkdkkk)
Besides that, I've been trying to just increase my speed in general for the past couple weeks or so until I can play 200bpm more consistently, but I don't feel like I've improved at all in this time considering I can hardly score any higher on any maps I've done before.
What's the best way someone around my skill level could improve? Thanks in advance
From a quick glance at your profile, something you could work on is consistency FCing. You're likely working on songs that are a little -too- far out of your play range currently. Focus on FCing for a bit with at least S rank (no low acc A's). If a map gives you trouble, find out what pattern is causing that trouble and work on getting that pattern down to muscle memory. Ideally once you've learned how to play most triplet, quadruplet and quintuplet patterns, you can start to play any map up to your bpm comfort zone (including streams once you learn how to string those patterns together!)

Also, a comment about speed. You likely do have the speed to play maps above 150bpm. You're more likely to not have good enough reading and finger control more than anything, which builds with playtime. Speed comes with comfort reading and playing patterns.
Purplehoboes

Tasha wrote:

Purplehoboes wrote:

I could use some advice improving, as I seem to have hit a wall
Right now I'm just under 3000pp (honestly, I could probably get a couple hundred more without much struggling if I downloaded some more maps, but I want to get better, not farm pp on easy maps)
What's getting to me the most is streaming (I can stream in some maps up to 150ish bpm depending on the specific note patterns, but anything above that is pretty much impossible unless it's an easy pattern like ddkkddkk or ddddkkkk or dkkkdkkk)
Besides that, I've been trying to just increase my speed in general for the past couple weeks or so until I can play 200bpm more consistently, but I don't feel like I've improved at all in this time considering I can hardly score any higher on any maps I've done before.
What's the best way someone around my skill level could improve? Thanks in advance
From a quick glance at your profile, something you could work on is consistency FCing. You're likely working on songs that are a little -too- far out of your play range currently. Focus on FCing for a bit with at least S rank (no low acc A's). If a map gives you trouble, find out what pattern is causing that trouble and work on getting that pattern down to muscle memory. Ideally once you've learned how to play most triplet, quadruplet and quintuplet patterns, you can start to play any map up to your bpm comfort zone (including streams once you learn how to string those patterns together!)

Also, a comment about speed. You likely do have the speed to play maps above 150bpm. You're more likely to not have good enough reading and finger control more than anything, which builds with playtime. Speed comes with comfort reading and playing patterns.
Thanks, I appreciate it :D
Zoggoth
I've got pretty good muscle memory for all patterns 5 notes or less, but I'm having trouble putting them together in streams, so if I'm not single tapping 1/4's (bpm>~120) then 1/4 streams of the same length have a huge difficulty range depending on the order on dons/katsus. For example I find Endless Tewi-ma Park Oni (3.8*, 128bpm) as hard as Anthem (6*, 220bpm) because the first has 5 17-29 note streams with almost no pattern, with 13 & 15 ones all over the place; whereas the worst I can find in Anthem is ddkdddkkkkddddklkkkddddk and almost every 9+ note stream is made of just dd & kk pairs.

At the moment I can sort of handle these patternless streams by splitting the stream up into bits like dkdk... (alternate fingers on right hand) and bits like dddd.../kkkk... (alternate index/middle fingers) but this isn't even vaguely consistent. I've started spamming a collection of maps like the Tewi-ma Park one (120-140 bpm, ~4* with long patternless streams) but it doesn't seem to be helping. Do I need to start by forcing myself to alternate streams on 100 bpm maps I could otherwise play with one hand? Or even relearning with full alternating? (I'm keeping my ddkkddkk... and kddkdd... patterns though)

As a side note, is there any long term point to chasing FCs for anyone without huge consistency issues? 99% FCs seem to be great for PP short-term but is there a better way to practice consistency?
SkullNoise
I've been playing this game for a few years now but mainly as just a solo game without really interacting on the forums or anything. However now I'm starting to be active on the forums and am seeing a lot of terminology I don't really get... Would anyone mind giving me a basic run through of taiko terminology on here so I can better communicate with you guys?

I also have a second question regarding taiko itself. I have fairly good muscle memory of every pattern from 3's all the way into 500+ note streams, however one specific thing I've been seeing in a lot of higher ranked beatmaps is what appears to be a condensed note pattern, typically 4 notes, in the middle of a stream that ends up throwing me off. I've learned these patterns by themselves but when they appear in a stream I miss them almost every time. Any tips or beatmaps to practice these on?
karterfreak
@Zoggoth:

For a kddk player the ideal way to deal with any long stream is to fully alternate. Realistically you should do what works for you so long as it won't cause you problems down the line. (I don't know good examples of this for kddk as I'm mainly a ddkk player). As for more complex patterns, reading and familiarity are 99% of your issues right now. At a certain point you start thinking less about what button to press and just naturally do it from muscle memory. That's personally when I found streaming to be much easier as I was able to focus on reading the more complex patterns. As your reading gets better, so will your consistency. Your reading improves with playing a lot of varied maps and going for FC's (eliminating mistakes on patterns you struggle on in the map). That's why I suggest people play songs slightly out of their comfort zone so they can have something to work on as they play.

@SkullNoise

I dunno if there's actually a list of terminology anywhere (and too lazy to check) so I guess I can cover the ones I use a lot.

  1. don - red notes, also shortened to d when explaining streams / patterns.
  2. kat - blue notes, also shortened to k when explaining streams / patterns. (i.e: d k ddk d kd dk)
  3. sliders / drum rolls - the yellow note that you hit all the white dots on for bonus points
  4. dendens / spinners - the note that you need to alternate between don / kat to get the counter to hit 0 for bonus points.
  5. finishers - The big notes that give bonus points for hitting with both don / kat keys. Shortened to D and K respectively.
  6. important note on key layout: Players will often describe their key layout using don and kat shortened, not all players use the default kddk style layout, there are players who use dkdk / ddkk playstyles and their opposites (kdkd / kkdd / dkkd(?))
  7. 4/1, 2/1, 1/1, 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 1/6, 1/8 - These are all basically spacing between notes using editor terminology within osu!. You may need to research a little on music to understand this part but basically 4/1 is whole notes, 2/1 is half notes, 1/1 is quarter notes, 1/2 is eighth notes, 1/4 is 16th notes, 1/8 is 32nd notes. 1/3 and 1/6 are editor snappings equivalent to 12th and 24th notes (or eighth note in a eighth note triplet / sixteenth note in a sixteenth note triplet). These are all used to explain a stream to someone. (i.e: That 1/3 + 1/4 + 1/6 (k k d)d(kkkd)d(kkkd)d at 200bpm is a really hard pattern! Brackets are emphasizing the 1/3 and 1/6 and the notes not in bracket are 1/4)
  8. doubles - patterns in pairs of 2 (i.e: dd, kk, dk, kd are all doubles).
  9. quads - patterns in pairs of 4 (i.e dddd, kkkk, dddk, kkkd, ddkk, kkdd, dkkk, kddd, dkdd, kdkk, dkkd, kddk, dkdk, kdkd are all quads).
  10. monocolors / monostreams - something I kinda coined for use myself being a player who uses a ddkk playstyle. I use this to describe any streams that are all one color or have long sections of one color (i.e: 1/4 dddddddddddddddd or 1/6 (kkkkkkkkkk) are monocolors / monostreams)
That covers about all the terminology I can think of off the top of my head.

As for the second question, you're referring to 1/4+1/6 patterns is my best guess such as ddddkkkkdd(kkkd)d(kkkd) or other such examples. These patterns may take a little longer to learn as you're having to adjust your speed as you're streaming to compensate on top of reading the different spacing on these notes compared to 1/4 ones. Your best bet for practicing these are on lower bpm maps that have these patterns and working your way up much like you did when you first started to stream 1/4 patterns. Best of luck!
Zoggoth
@Tasha

Is the "recommended difficulty" in the search function a good place to start? Right now I'm doing random maps with "stars>4 bpm<241" but I could easily just sort by difficulty and play every map 5.4* (recommended) and up. I think I may have already messed up slightly by playing dkd and kdk with one hand, as I think it's messing up my speed and stamina on dkdk... streams
IControl
Maps With 1/6s in the middle of the streams?

I can do ddd(kkkd)kk fairly easily but I sometimes struggle with ddd(kkkd)dd or any generally any last note of the 1/6s that leads into the same color note as the 1/6 stream. Does anybody have any advice for a ddkk player? Also maps?
karterfreak

Zoggoth wrote:

@Tasha

Is the "recommended difficulty" in the search function a good place to start? Right now I'm doing random maps with "stars>4 bpm<241" but I could easily just sort by difficulty and play every map 5.4* (recommended) and up. I think I may have already messed up slightly by playing dkd and kdk with one hand, as I think it's messing up my speed and stamina on dkdk... streams
Whatever works for you. When I was learning I just played as many maps as I could get my hands on and tried to pass. It was pretty easy to tell which ones were too far out of my range (pattern complexity was too much / streams were too long for me to understand / etc.) and which ones were only slightly out of my range (~10 misses / FC but low acc). I'd just focus on the maps that I thought I could FC / improve my score on. As for your issues with dkd / kdk, make an effort to change it then. You'll notice a drop in skill initially but as you engrave into muscle memory how to do them the way you want to, you'll have less issues with it and you'll remove the problem you feel you have (speed / stamina) because of it.

IControl wrote:

Maps With 1/6s in the middle of the streams?

I can do ddd(kkkd)kk fairly easily but I sometimes struggle with ddd(kkkd)dd or any generally any last note of the 1/6s that leads into the same color note as the 1/6 stream. Does anybody have any advice for a ddkk player? Also maps?
The best advice I can give with regards to 1/4+1/6 (with 1/6 usually being quads) is to be incredibly comfortable with all of the different 1/6 on their own and be extremely familiar with knowing how much time there is between a 1/2 snap at a given bpm. Reason I find this useful is quads fit within the spacing of two notes at 1/2 snapping. (i.e d k at 1/2 snapping and (ddkk) at 1/6 snapping would both start and end at the same time). Knowing this you can play 1/4 until the first note of the 1/6, play the quad within the 1/2 timing window and continue on with your 1/4. As for reading individual patterns, try to think of ways you can get the muscle memory down faster. For example the ddd(kkkd)dd pattern you struggle with? imagine it as dddkkkddd 1/4, a pattern you're already used to. It's the same inputs just done at different snappings, so try and train your fingers to get used to the different snapping.
IControl
Ty tasha. This is what bursting is I guess.
HattuKeisari
ds
Appelkatt

HattuKeisari wrote:

I have problems with doing fast DK DK DKs (KD KD KDs). Any tips to improve?
TL;DR Practice, first and foremost.

They are pretty difficult, both to read and play. Understanding why they are difficult might help you out. As far as reading goes, I and probably a lot of others first started to learn to read patterns by taking small chunks, usually by their 1/4 structure, such as ddd, dkd, ddk, etc.. When you get into stuff like dd dk kk kd, you want to read them in individual parts but because they are smaller, you have to read more parts in a smaller amount of time. If this is the case, then continuing to try to play these notes is a good way to strengthen your ability to read overall, as you will naturally get faster. Eventually you will want to train yourself to read them in larger parts - in my above example, dd dk kk kd, this kind of pattern is somewhat common and I learned to just read it as a whole. Alternatively, since these notes frequently come in pairs, you can read them as if they were a quad, turning dd dk kk kd into dddk kkkd.

As far as playing them, they're difficult like quads in that if you're getting accustomed to having one hand play "main" notes and your other hand play "off" notes, such as always doing dkd as left/right/left, then it throws you off because you don't end the pattern with your main hand. The result is you have to make your main hand pause for a short amount of time, which goes against its muscle memory that you've been developing. The solution for this is nothing more than to just improve your muscle memory, although learning how to fully alternate will both help you handle these notes as well as help in a lot of other ways. If you think too hard on it, they can be rhythmically confusing, too.

Expect to mess up on them for a long time - even for my rank it's really easy for me to lose track of them, though. They're probably the second-hardest type of pattern for me to actually read and play.
tkdLolly
I'm having consistent trouble reading long streams at (un)reasonably high bpm;
and by 'long' I mean, say, >9 notes?

because I just can't follow them

Are there ways to read faster, or is it just a problem of grinding maps to obtain faster reflexes or muscle memory?
karterfreak
Once you get into longer streams reading and muscle memory are the two biggest things challenged. You have to be able to read the stream (without your eyes trailing down the lane / you falling behind in reading) as well as play it without really thinking about what buttons you need to press. If you just started getting into longer / more complex streams this is really hard at first. Only thing you can really do to get past that wall is work on more dense maps, even if lower bpm. As you get comfortable reading at lower bpms just work your way up to higher ones until you can read it without issue and your hands move on their own.
Edgar_Figaro
I have a problem counting notes. I am fine doing long monocolor streams as long as there are no notes after them. But if I have to do tapping of anything honestly above 6 notes of the same color and then it switch to the other color in the stream I will often miscount and over/under stream causing misses. It's not that I get off rythmn as I can usually Full 100% ACC all the notes in the stream it's just that I don't switch to the other color after the correct number of beats. Any tips on not making this silly mistake?
Raiden
^ I usually look where the opposite color is. If I recognize a full or 1/2 beat, I know it's with the same hand. If I don't recognize it, it means it's on an offbeat, so I'll use the opposite hand.
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