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Taiko Questions and Advice Thread.

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MMzz
Elite Mapper
3,979 posts
Joined June 2009
Topic Starter
MMzz
I remember learning those patterns by just grinding them until my fingers realized how they worked.

The way I used think when approaching them is by looking at the the start. Looking at the kkd or kkdkk at the start helps me graps the rhythm immediately and prepare mentally for bringing in my other d finger for the off beats.

By now it is muscle memory so I don't even have to think. But an interesting way of learned these patterns (or any in general) is just breaking them down.
goatlife
59 posts
Joined May 2014
goatlife

Nofool wrote:

Another way to see it : cut it as 3 kkd patterns in a row, and then play the first one by starting with your right hand, the second one by starting with you left hand, and the last one with you right hand again etc (assuming you started the pattern with your right hand and know how to full alt a single kkd pattern).
My playstyle is zxm,

Yeah I'm trying to do this method except with ,zm z,xbut I'm have the hardest time getting it down. I can play Holy Orders fine though it's just when the pattern is switched it's really hard.

But yeah I guess I'm gonna grind the pattern till I get it down. Are there any maps that can help me progress?
lolcubes
osu! Alumni
4,437 posts
Joined November 2010
lolcubes
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/122658 kana's diff is good to learn that pattern. Just spam it until you can consistently FC it.
[Ayase Eli]
42 posts
Joined May 2013
[Ayase Eli]
Yeah any small pattern like that you can nail down by just spamming it. Sometimes if I don't have a song to play for a certain pattern, I will start a song and try to play that pattern over and over in time with the music, ignoring the beatmap itself. Or one with a super long intro. My bane is kdd's D:
goatlife
59 posts
Joined May 2014
goatlife
thank you both! :D
[Ayase Eli]
42 posts
Joined May 2013
[Ayase Eli]
Not that I understand why a hero like you would need tips on how to play Taiko :3
Aldwych
2,831 posts
Joined February 2012
Aldwych
Still learning how2dkkkd.

Any advice? Because currently, i'm single tapping it on bpm < 130, and hoping on more. Maybe making a full map of dkkkd pattern just to force myself.
the_robot
15 posts
Joined October 2014
the_robot
Could somebody give me some advice on playing high bpm songs? (over 210 without mods)? Even if it is a song with relatively simple patterns like the oni difficulty for "Hit and Run in 1920 A.D" my fingers just can't keep up once the bpm kicks up.
MMzz
Elite Mapper
3,979 posts
Joined June 2009
Topic Starter
MMzz
Find the highest BPM you can play comfortably and work your way up. You will need to train your self physically and mentally. (To read the notes and hit them properly without getting tired) Do not force your self into a really fast BPM at the start. It can cause physical strain and damage to your hands, and you will develop bad habits for hitting patterns and bad accuracy.
Raiden
osu! Alumni
2,419 posts
Joined January 2013
Raiden

MMzz wrote:

Find the highest BPM you can play comfortably and work your way up. You will need to train your self physically and mentally. (To read the notes and hit them properly without getting tired) Do not force your self into a really fast BPM at the start. It can cause physical strain and damage to your hands, and you will develop bad habits for hitting patterns and bad accuracy.
This, basically.

I did start to practice patterns in a very low BPM environment (around 130) and worked my way up. Now I can consistently do any pattern at 180-200 bpm (sometimes even higher). So yeah, listen to this guy, he knows some sht :3
dewero
83 posts
Joined May 2013
dewero
Hi! How do you know which finger to end on with long single color streams that end in the other color e.g ddddddddk.
MMzz
Elite Mapper
3,979 posts
Joined June 2009
Topic Starter
MMzz

dewero wrote:

Hi! How do you know which finger to end on with long single color streams that end in the other color e.g ddddddddk.
Counting helps! Or paying attention to even/odd number of colored notes. I did this early on because It was hard to differentiate where to end streams, when i figured this out I was improving my streaming abilities greatly. This also helps a lot with learning more complicated streams, because you keep counting and know how to transition properly. Using single tap, even numbers end on main hand, odd end of off hand. I'm sure it works similar ways in other playstyles.
dewero
83 posts
Joined May 2013
dewero
What about higher BPMs? It gets harder to tell when to switch when the BPM gets higher
Aldwych
2,831 posts
Joined February 2012
Aldwych
Well i agree with MMZZ, but most of the time in this case of pattern they're impair (3,5,7,9...), so yep it can help you on what hand you'll finish.
MMzz
Elite Mapper
3,979 posts
Joined June 2009
Topic Starter
MMzz

dewero wrote:

What about higher BPMs? It gets harder to tell when to switch when the BPM gets higher
Just a matter of counting / processing faster.
karterfreak
osu! Alumni
724 posts
Joined August 2011
karterfreak

MMzz wrote:

dewero wrote:

What about higher BPMs? It gets harder to tell when to switch when the BPM gets higher
Just a matter of counting / processing faster.
Basically what MMzz said. I'd like to add though that this gets quite hard later on and you might even have differences in your reading and playing skills that can be hard to overcome .

Example: You could be good enough to read 300bpm, but your playing speed doesn't meet the requirement to keep up even if you're processing the information fast enough. Could also be vice versa where you could play 300bpm but your processing is too slow so you make lots of reading mistakes.
dewero
83 posts
Joined May 2013
dewero
Alright, thanks for the help everyone!
Raiden
osu! Alumni
2,419 posts
Joined January 2013
Raiden

Tasha wrote:

Basically what MMzz said. I'd like to add though that this gets quite hard later on and you might even have differences in your reading and playing skills that can be hard to overcome .

Example: You could be good enough to read 300bpm, but your playing speed doesn't meet the requirement to keep up even if you're processing the information fast enough. Could also be vice versa where you could play 300bpm but your processing is too slow so you make lots of reading mistakes.
I feel this thread should have more posts overall.

Gotta agree on this. Reading doesn't directly correlate to speed. I'm probably one of those who can read high bpm, but unfortunately has no speed to keep up with it. However, lack of speed can directly influence your reading skill. Use me as an example. When I'm playing a high BPM song (take for example Loctav's "I'm your daddy" Oni or Inner), it gets to a point where it doesn't matter if I read it right, I'll miss because I have no speed to keep up with the rhythm, and then I'll just suddenly stop being able to read anything for 5 whole seconds, until I get back to the rhythm.

Even so, when I start to warm up with low-ish BPM maps (180~) and start moving up slowly on a session of play, I feel higher BPMs become progressively easier for me. I guess it's because I lack warmup before I try high bpm maps.

Whatever, everything just sums up with a wise "Play more". Nothing beats good practice :)
Dkong64
5 posts
Joined June 2012
Dkong64
i play taiko with mouse and keyboard but what's the most common button config? i've been having trouble with the large notes and might switch if it'll make it easier



[Ayase Eli]
42 posts
Joined May 2013
[Ayase Eli]
Most common keybinding is KDDK (or blue red red blue if you prefer). Some people argue for DDKK, but KDDK is by far more popular. I would say your playstyle makes a bigger difference than your key bindings though.
2001
37 posts
Joined January 2014
2001
Hi, I'm stuck at around 6000 in rankings on Taiko. I'm trying to learn a lot of patterns but I just seem to not get the hang of it. My setup is zx numpad1numpad2. Since I came off of osu! standard, I single tap with my left hand so whenever I do a triple combo for example ddd, I do x, numpad 1, and x.

The problems I'm having right now are the combos that have k in a weird position. Kdd, dkk, and kddddk, any of these will end my combo immediately. Kdd is not the biggest problem for me, but I'm wondering if I should be alternating kdd. When I see a kdd, I usually do z, x, numpad 1 which is me tapping left, left, and right, I was also thinking if I should actually be doing z, numpad 1, x which alternates left, right, and left. Ssme goes for dkk, do I alternate left, right, and then left?

I'm still a noob at Taiko so a lot of feedback will be great. I'm not so familiar with Taiko terms as well so if you can teach me some, that will be great.
Raiden
osu! Alumni
2,419 posts
Joined January 2013
Raiden

TitansHD wrote:

Hi, I'm stuck at around 6000 in rankings on Taiko. I'm trying to learn a lot of patterns but I just seem to not get the hang of it. My setup is zx numpad1numpad2. Since I came off of osu! standard, I single tap with my left hand so whenever I do a triple combo for example ddd, I do x, numpad 1, and x.

The problems I'm having right now are the combos that have k in a weird position. Kdd, dkk, and kddddk, any of these will end my combo immediately. Kdd is not the biggest problem for me, but I'm wondering if I should be alternating kdd. When I see a kdd, I usually do z, x, numpad 1 which is me tapping left, left, and right, I was also thinking if I should actually be doing z, numpad 1, x which alternates left, right, and left. Ssme goes for dkk, do I alternate left, right, and then left?

I'm still a noob at Taiko so a lot of feedback will be great. I'm not so familiar with Taiko terms as well so if you can teach me some, that will be great.
Hey, nice to see some more contribution to this thread.

Also, yes. You should ALWAYS alternate in 1/4s. Not for the purpose of aesthethics, but for the efficiency. Hitting 1/4s with one hand will probably end in you
1. Failing to read streams that start with kdd (for example kdddkdddkddd...)
2. Getting tired a lot easier (you are fatigating 1 hand instead of spreading the energy to both hands)

That's at least what I recommend, and probably, what most top players will recommend to you. Nonetheless, you must play however you feel more comfortable.

What can we teach you about Taiko terms?

Dons? Katsus? :P
[Ayase Eli]
42 posts
Joined May 2013
[Ayase Eli]

TitansHD wrote:

Hi, I'm stuck at around 6000 in rankings on Taiko. I'm trying to learn a lot of patterns but I just seem to not get the hang of it. My setup is zx numpad1numpad2. Since I came off of osu! standard, I single tap with my left hand so whenever I do a triple combo for example ddd, I do x, numpad 1, and x.

The problems I'm having right now are the combos that have k in a weird position. Kdd, dkk, and kddddk, any of these will end my combo immediately. Kdd is not the biggest problem for me, but I'm wondering if I should be alternating kdd. When I see a kdd, I usually do z, x, numpad 1 which is me tapping left, left, and right, I was also thinking if I should actually be doing z, numpad 1, x which alternates left, right, and left. Ssme goes for dkk, do I alternate left, right, and then left?

I'm still a noob at Taiko so a lot of feedback will be great. I'm not so familiar with Taiko terms as well so if you can teach me some, that will be great.
I'm right at your rank with almost the exact same issue. Unless you feel like overhauling your entire playstyle, kdd and dkk will always feel weird. However, you will end up getting much better at it I promise. I used to be almost physically incapable of kdd, but now I'm not that bad at it.

As for songs that you can use, I don't know too many but this one, https://osu.ppy.sh/s/29557 has quite a few kdd's that I remember practicing on. I also noticed that once I started learning how to do long ddk and kkd patterns like in this oni, https://osu.ppy.sh/s/122658 I was able to think of kdd's as just a part of a ddkddkddk... pattern. Don't know if any of that helps but that's how I've had success against those patterns.
lolcubes
osu! Alumni
4,437 posts
Joined November 2010
lolcubes
Just saying, but I used to play similarly. I was using my right hand for most of the things (for example, I would play kdddk as right right left right right) and I started streams with left hand (unless they started with a kat). kddkddk patterns were really easy because I would just roll one hand and throw in my other hand, but when I ran into streams of 9 or more notes, I was pretty much dead, because I either ran out of stamina or I just couldn't cope with the patterns, they seemed overly complicated to play.

Now, I did get somewhat far with that playstyle, I could play most of the maps, even the harder ones, however I would still choke on streams unless they were like ddddkkkkddkkd or similar.

I have decided to reroll to full alt when a friend of mine started taiko as well (he was also full alt) so we were competing with each other mostly.
Sadly he quit somewhere around mid tier Oni level, but I continued playing and I'm here where I am now. I am playing taiko for 2 years now, I spent slightly more than 1 year of playing my old style and around 1 year playing full alternate, and while my progress was really slow at first, as soon as I learned to play simple patterns on reflex, my skill kept rising really fast.

I don't really consider myself that good of a player, but my point is if you learn the patterns in the correct way, you will get far in this game. Don't cheese patterns unless you really want to FC that complex map for some pp.
Not really saying it's impossible to continue playing how you feel like it, but I think in the long run alternating all patterns (if not everything) is probably for the best.
Raiden
osu! Alumni
2,419 posts
Joined January 2013
Raiden

lolcubes wrote:

Just saying, but I used to play similarly. I was using my right hand for most of the things (for example, I would play kdddk as right right left right right) and I started streams with left hand (unless they started with a kat). kddkddk patterns were really easy because I would just roll one hand and throw in my other hand, but when I ran into streams of 9 or more notes, I was pretty much dead, because I either ran out of stamina or I just couldn't cope with the patterns, they seemed overly complicated to play.

Now, I did get somewhat far with that playstyle, I could play most of the maps, even the harder ones, however I would still choke on streams unless they were like ddddkkkkddkkd or similar.

I have decided to reroll to full alt when a friend of mine started taiko as well (he was also full alt) so we were competing with each other mostly.
Sadly he quit somewhere around mid tier Oni level, but I continued playing and I'm here where I am now. I am playing taiko for 2 years now, I spent slightly more than 1 year of playing my old style and around 1 year playing full alternate, and while my progress was really slow at first, as soon as I learned to play simple patterns on reflex, my skill kept rising really fast.

I don't really consider myself that good of a player, but my point is if you learn the patterns in the correct way, you will get far in this game. Don't cheese patterns unless you really want to FC that complex map for some pp.
Not really saying it's impossible to continue playing how you feel like it, but I think in the long run alternating all patterns (if not everything) is probably for the best.
Hey cubes :) nice to see you posting again in this thread.

My story is similar to yours. I used to singletap back then, but after I saw I got 0 progress, I decided to restart and switch to full alternate, and heck I've reached far (compared to what I was before).

Anyway, alternating everything is definetely a good idea, however (and I guess in my opinion), learning this style is a bit more harsh than learning singletapping (where you have a dominant hand, and basically that hand does almost everything), mainly due to the fact that you have to learn every pattern twice, this meaning we have to know how to start every stream and every pattern with both hands, which in the end means spending more time in the learning. This, I consider, is probably the reason why people feel reluctant towards learning full alternate (the time it takes to fully dominate it).

Anyway, I guess I have the luck that alternating felt more natural for me than singletapping, so I switched to it at a "very young age" (even before I started Onis) because I saw close to 0 progress while singletapping.

Also, alternating everything looks cooler in the replays (????)
eeezzzeee
979 posts
Joined August 2013
eeezzzeee

TitansHD wrote:

Hi, I'm stuck at around 6000 in rankings on Taiko. I'm trying to learn a lot of patterns but I just seem to not get the hang of it. My setup is zx numpad1numpad2. Since I came off of osu! standard, I single tap with my left hand so whenever I do a triple combo for example ddd, I do x, numpad 1, and x.

The problems I'm having right now are the combos that have k in a weird position. Kdd, dkk, and kddddk, any of these will end my combo immediately. Kdd is not the biggest problem for me, but I'm wondering if I should be alternating kdd. When I see a kdd, I usually do z, x, numpad 1 which is me tapping left, left, and right, I was also thinking if I should actually be doing z, numpad 1, x which alternates left, right, and left. Ssme goes for dkk, do I alternate left, right, and then left?

I'm still a noob at Taiko so a lot of feedback will be great. I'm not so familiar with Taiko terms as well so if you can teach me some, that will be great.
I actually still play with this kind of playstyle! It's not all that bad, as long as you have the reading skills complicated patterns are so much fun to play. Also kddkddkddk.. and dkkdkkdkkd.. is very natural to play with some practice. If anything I find dddkkkdddkkk... (3 at a time) to be the most challenging patterns.

The HUGE problem though is speed. Its just really hard to play fast stuff with so much being focused on one hand. In the long run everybody is probably better off learning how to alternate every note in 1/4
Raixor
39 posts
Joined June 2014
Raixor
Hi guys, I am very new to Taiko. I got a simple question. Since I come from standard I bound my keys like this : df jk.
However from what I've read in this thread it seems people usually bind their keys dfjk. Could somebody explain to me where the benefit of that lies? It seems much more complicated to me to play both colors with both hands instead of only playing all the red notes with the left and all the blue notes with the right hand. Sorry for lack of terminology, I know that the red and blue notes are called kad and dong or something but I couldnt remember off the top of my head.

Also how is the speed of whcih the notes appear, I guess approach rate, determined? it can't solely be by bpm right, cause it gets faster with hr on
Jona
131 posts
Joined July 2013
Jona

Raixor wrote:

Hi guys, I am very new to Taiko. I got a simple question. Since I come from standard I bound my keys like this : df jk.
However from what I've read in this thread it seems people usually bind their keys dfjk. Could somebody explain to me where the benefit of that lies? It seems much more complicated to me to play both colors with both hands instead of only playing all the red notes with the left and all the blue notes with the right hand. Sorry for lack of terminology, I know that the red and blue notes are called kad and dong or something but I couldnt remember off the top of my head.

Also how is the speed of whcih the notes appear, I guess approach rate, determined? it can't solely be by bpm right, cause it gets faster with hr on
I saw this thread made by IntelliTrodoon where people discuss pros and cons for both playstyles. https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/310368 You should probably read some of the posts there if you are wondering what playstyle you should use 8-)

Also, approach rate is determined by the slider velocity and BPM on the map. Kind of hard to explain, I guess some good mapper could explain this better than me.
Raixor
39 posts
Joined June 2014
Raixor

Jona wrote:

I saw this thread made by IntelliTrodoon where people discuss pros and cons for both playstyles. https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/310368 You should probably read some of the posts there if you are wondering what playstyle you should use 8-)

Also, approach rate is determined by the slider velocity and BPM on the map. Kind of hard to explain, I guess some good mapper could explain this better than me.
Thanks for sending me over there. I guess no style is really superior to the other one except for some patterns or so.

I have another question, since I am a standard player and mainly a DT player I can singletap 240 bpm for pretty much a minute straight (no clue how my right hand will do but I guess not so bad since it's my dominant hand after all). Will this be enough stamina for even starting into getting harder maps? or is alternating just that much superior. Or is this just another case of nothing is really superior just like in standard.
Raiden
osu! Alumni
2,419 posts
Joined January 2013
Raiden

Raixor wrote:

Thanks for sending me over there. I guess no style is really superior to the other one except for some patterns or so.

I have another question, since I am a standard player and mainly a DT player I can singletap 240 bpm for pretty much a minute straight (no clue how my right hand will do but I guess not so bad since it's my dominant hand after all). Will this be enough stamina for even starting into getting harder maps? or is alternating just that much superior. Or is this just another case of nothing is really superior just like in standard.
DDKK (or red red blue blue if you prefer) is better for some patterns, yeah, such as long tricky streams (because hand switches are more intuitive), however long monocolour streams will probably screw up your accuracy unless you're very good at it, as well as 1/6 + 1/4 clusters (changing speed is so much more difficult with DDKK imo), however that's not the point in this thread.

Singletapping 240bpm is quite admirable, and "alternating" (with the full meaning of the word) is not possible in DDKK style, since we talk about HAND alternate, not fingers. This is not STD, here you use 2 hands :P

However, d d d d d d d d 1/2 at 240bpm or so you can alternate your fingers. But again we're not talking about hand alternate (which is the true alternation in taiko).

And to answer your last question, most top 50 players (if not all) play KDDK. There are however really badass DDKK players out there. So it's just up to you, to which style you feel most comfortable with.
Coro
2,394 posts
Joined September 2010
Coro
The kddk playstyle is a carryover from the arcade version, where since you use actual traditional bachi (wooded drumsticks), you have to learn the skill of hand-switching common in drumming, yep~
As it is, once you learn to play drum patterns by hand-switching, you can play like that by default, and it feels really good to play complicated streams in that playstyle, at least for me XD
2001
37 posts
Joined January 2014
2001
Hi, I made a post a bit ago and I am here just to update (and some more questions). I have mastered kdd and dkk and I can do long streams with either of them. My question now is on knowing how to read patterns that are 5 notes long. Since I can "basically" FC every Muzukashii song, I'm starting to drift over into the main section of Oni. I'm beginning to see a whole bunch of ddkdk or kkdkd. What I want to learn is how to read them so no matter how many times they're placed in the song, I will be able to do it. Kind of just as easy as reading ddd in a song, I don't memorise that there's a ddd in the song I need to watch out for.

I'm also having a bit of troubles on those really fast notes. As I'm not familiar, can anyone tell me what 1/4 or 1/6 means? Does 1/4 means the regular patterns where we always see? And does 1/6 mean does really fast notes that you need to put in extra effort? Thanks.
the_robot
15 posts
Joined October 2014
the_robot
One good way to learn patterns longer than three or four notes is to break them up into smaller patterns that you do know. For example you could break up kkdkd into kkd kd. Now that you have the three note patterns down you can build upon them and string them together into longer and longer patterns and streams.

It still takes a lot of practice, and for some people it clicks faster that it does for others, but once your brain starts to put the patterns together it all becomes easier to read, and longer patterns and streams become more manageable, or at least they did for me.

Hope this helps!
2001
37 posts
Joined January 2014
2001
Thanks! I'm trying to learn to break them up but whenever the 5 note patterns pop up I freak out and just miss a lot of them.
the_robot
15 posts
Joined October 2014
the_robot
Yeah, and you will for a while. But the more that you practice and the more times that you see them the easier it will become. It won't happen overnight but stick with it long enough and it will eventually click. Once you can get the longer patterns down the game opens up a lot and becomes a lot more enjoyable.
OzzyOzrock
5,185 posts
Joined August 2010
OzzyOzrock
Don't hesitate to use the editor to practice patterns, or even edit the song to have the pattern your struggling and then test that over and over again!
Kanadechi
17 posts
Joined May 2014
Kanadechi
Hello!

I have a question related to the hands.
1) About the wrists: what is the best, keeping them on air or resting on the table/keyboard?
2) When you hit the notes you just move the finger, the whole hand or the entire arm?
How you get the less tired or more comfortable?

My actual play is hands on air, resting the weight on the elbows and taping with the fingers without moving the fingers. The problem is that after a while I my hands get very tired
Jona
131 posts
Joined July 2013
Jona

Kanadechi wrote:

Hello!

I have a question related to the hands.
1) About the wrists: what is the best, keeping them on air or resting on the table/keyboard?
2) When you hit the notes you just move the finger, the whole hand or the entire arm?
How you get the less tired or more comfortable?

My actual play is hands on air, resting the weight on the elbows and taping with the fingers without moving the fingers. The problem is that after a while I my hands get very tired
As in any other game mode (or game for that matter), it's all personal preference, no playstyle is superior.

1) I personally like resting my wrists on the table. Resting your wrists on the table is probably more comfertable on longer maps.
2) I move my hands when I press the buttons. Can't really tell what is more comfertable since I have only tried one playstyle.
dewero
83 posts
Joined May 2013
dewero

Kanadechi wrote:

Hello!

I have a question related to the hands.
1) About the wrists: what is the best, keeping them on air or resting on the table/keyboard?
2) When you hit the notes you just move the finger, the whole hand or the entire arm?
How you get the less tired or more comfortable?

My actual play is hands on air, resting the weight on the elbows and taping with the fingers without moving the fingers. The problem is that after a while I my hands get very tired
I play exactly the same style, and the only thing I can really say is that you have to play more and build up stamina/speed. Play until your arms get tired, take a break, then repeat. In the end there's not a huge difference in playstyles, so just experiment to see which one you like the most, and stick with it.
Aldwych
2,831 posts
Joined February 2012
Aldwych
Hi! o/

I've questions that i need some help and i count on some experiences.

Currently, i've a 98.25% Hit acc, which is not so bad but i can be better and i find (imo) i don't have decent acc on Oni maps (96~98% on OD5 and worse on 7), so i want to get a better acc and lecture and i'm thinking about HD, so here's my questions :

- Except the "try try play play" option to better perform, does the HD mod increase the acc ability?
- Also i've some problems on big streams (9+ and differs on which type of pattern ofc), does the HD mod increase the lecture on patterns since we only got 3~4 notes readable in a row?

Hope you can help me. :D
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