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posted
This beatmap was submitted using in-game submission on Donnerstag, 27. August 2015 at 21:38:08

Artist: DragonForce
Title: My Spirit Will Go On
Tags: sonic firestorm dokolp metal rock death metal marathon speed
BPM: 200
Filesize: 8313kb
Play Time: 07:49
Difficulties Available:
  1. Relentless (7,63 stars, 2910 notes)


Download: DragonForce - My Spirit Will Go On
Information: Scores/Beatmap Listing
---------------
Reworked. Let's rank this baby.

Thanks to Mao for hitsounding this!

Keep in mind that this is not the typical CS5 DragonForce kind of map. I hope you guys still enjoy it.
posted
I appreciate every help i can get :3




You should get some consistency into mapping the same sound pattern multiple times - having a fullscreen jump for one time and a 1.0x snap for the other occurance with exactly no change in tone or pace in the song is not a sign of a reasonable map.

I've looked at the first thirty seconds of the actual mapping and found a lot of issues with inconsitent use of slider leniency, distance spacing and tripples, so you really want to look into.


Reference material for a few things is to be found here - if you want an actual and full-size mod, I'd have to see where I can fit it into my schedule.



This post was created on a request of having a look at said map, it is not my original intention - please don't take any sort of implications from it. Thanks.
posted
space for mod
posted

Jenny wrote:

I appreciate every help i can get :3




You should get some consistency into mapping the same sound pattern multiple times - having a fullscreen jump for one time and a 1.0x snap for the other occurance with exactly no change in tone or pace in the song is not a sign of a reasonable map.

I've looked at the first thirty seconds of the actual mapping and found a lot of issues with inconsitent use of slider leniency, distance spacing and tripples, so you really want to look into.


Reference material for a few things is to be found here - if you want an actual and full-size mod, I'd have to see where I can fit it into my schedule.



This post was created on a request of having a look at said map, it is not my original intention - please don't take any sort of implications from it. Thanks.
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/18841
posted
I see. Well that's one way to look at it without addressing the concerns you were given.
posted

Jenny wrote:

I see. Well that's one way to look at it without addressing the concerns you were given.


Well. It's just that I'm not DJPop, who constantly maps with distance snap. I find it quite boring and (believe me or not) I think about every jump i place. Not about the exact distance, but whether about it fits to the song or not (in my personal taste).
posted
(ノ◕ヮ◕)ノ*:・゚✧

General

  1. I'm not sure if diffnames related to a username can be used anymore, you should ask a BN or a QAT about this ;_;
  2. Tags suggestions: metal rock death metal marathon speed

DoKo


00:23:850 (6) - Since you were always using jumps on those sections, you should add one here too to be consistent. Here's a suggestion https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/2809564.

00:33:000 (4) - Ctrl + G this would improve the flow a lot. It would be smoother.

00:39:750 (11) - Wasn't the NC supposed to start here? Since you're always adding one in a big white tick and it's a new section.

00:49:800 (1) - Why NC here and not 00:49:350 (4) - here? :c

00:54:150 (11,1) - Same as above.

There are some things like these I mentioned above about the NC, I didn't really understand why you did but it's okay since it's consistent.

00:57:450 (10) - Increasing the jump here would be better better. The section is being emphasized by 00:56:550 (8,9) - with bigger jumps, an anti-jump would break this ;_; https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/2809668.

01:19:950 (9,10,11,12) - This is a REALLY breaking-flow-and-combo pattern, doesn't fit well there in my opinion, doing this would be better https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/2809727 (look at the numbers). This is just a suggestion, but really recommended tho.

01:23:250 (2) - Ctrl + G this wouldn't break the flow and put enphasis on this beat 01:23:550 (3) - . Since the vocal is strong there I guess there is no problem and it would be better to add a jump c:

01:28:200 (2) - Overlaping this was confusing, I thought it was a 3/4 rhythm, at least while a played. Maybe it's just me ;_;

02:22:800 (10) - There's no need of a 1/8 here, there is no 1/8 rhythm here and you were always using big sliders to enphasize this part. Would be weird to have just one 1/8 slider here :c

03:12:150 (14) - You probably forgot to add a NC here :D

03:18:750 - You really shouldn't ignore those beats, try adding a stream with a low DS here or 1/4 sliders.

03:52:800 (10) - Same about the 1/8 I've mentioned before.

04:17:850 (10) - What about a Ctrl + G to improve the flow? :D

04:55:645 (1) - Using a gray 1/16 tick here would be better. Try listening at 25% and you'll see that 1/2 is really late.

04:56:814 (1) - Same here, but 1/4 is better than 1/16.

05:02:250 (10,11,12,13) - Why slow spaced streams? You were using 0,9x before, try to do the same here, I couldn't notice any weak beats here for low DS :c

05:55:800 - You should add a stacked circle here. Do anything but pleeeeeeeease don't ignore this beat ;_;

06:24:450 (1) - I don't recommend stacking this. Some players can miss this by clicking more than 17 times. It's nearly on the end and missing here would be really bad. Plus, the beat here is strong, stacking is really not a good idea.

07:01:875 (4,5,6,7) - This is more spaced than 07:01:650 (1,2,3) - . Is it intentional? If it is, you can ignore this.

07:36:450 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - ♥ ♥ ♥

07:39:450 (1,2,3) - Since the spacing between these sliders and 07:38:850 (1,2,3) - is really near, it can cause a sliderbreak confusing the players. I'd recommend increase the spacing a bit, or instead of sliders you can add streams.

07:42:450 (13) - New combo here? c:

07:49:050 - There is no beat here to follow, you should end the spinner here and delete 07:49:200 (1) - this note. But it's just a suggestion, you can keep it if you like.
I like this map <3
posted

DoKito wrote:

Jenny wrote:

I see. Well that's one way to look at it without addressing the concerns you were given.


Well. It's just that I'm not DJPop, who constantly maps with distance snap. I find it quite boring and (believe me or not) I think about every jump i place. Not about the exact distance, but whether about it fits to the song or not (in my personal taste).



I was not talking about jumps.

these are the kinds of things I am talking about
00:19:950 (5,6) - medium spacing, fine
00:20:250 (6,1) - medium jump, fine
00:21:150 (5,6) - big spacing; why? it's the exact same soundpattern but it's a huge mirrorjump
00:21:450 (6,1) - not a jump at all; why? you used one for the previous occurance of this, why not here?
00:23:550 (5,6,1) - here you don't use any real spacing at all anymore though nothing changed

things like these repeat throughout the entire map
posted

Jenny wrote:

I was not talking about jumps.

these are the kinds of things I am talking about
00:19:950 (5,6) - medium spacing, fine
00:20:250 (6,1) - medium jump, fine
00:21:150 (5,6) - big spacing; why? it's the exact same soundpattern but it's a huge mirrorjump
00:21:450 (6,1) - not a jump at all; why? you used one for the previous occurance of this, why not here?
00:23:550 (5,6,1) - here you don't use any real spacing at all anymore though nothing changed

things like these repeat throughout the entire map


00:21:450 (6,1) - not a jump at all; why? you used one for the previous occurance of this, why not here?

Okay. With this you are right, but why do i have to have the exact same distance in every jump? That mirror jump is not even that huge imo.


Near wrote:

(ノ◕ヮ◕)ノ*:・゚✧

General

  1. I'm not sure if diffnames related to a username can be used anymore, you should ask a BN or a QAT about this ;_; will do
  2. Tags suggestions: metal rock death metal marathon speed
added

DoKo


00:23:850 (6) - Since you were always using jumps on those sections, you should add one here too to be consistent. Here's a suggestion https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/2809564. fixed. Dunno why i did that myself.

00:33:000 (4) - Ctrl + G this would improve the flow a lot. It would be smoother. done

00:39:750 (11) - Wasn't the NC supposed to start here? Since you're always adding one in a big white tick and it's a new section. Doesn't really look too good and i want these 3 circles to be kind of seperated.

00:49:800 (1) - Why NC here and not 00:49:350 (4) - here? :c changed

00:54:150 (11,1) - Same as above. Nah. This is fine as it is imo.

There are some things like these I mentioned above about the NC, I didn't really understand why you did but it's okay since it's consistent.

00:57:450 (10) - Increasing the jump here would be better better. The section is being emphasized by 00:56:550 (8,9) - with bigger jumps, an anti-jump would break this ;_; https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/2809668. I didn't want that sliderende to disappear under that long slider before... But i guess that's irrelevant.

01:19:950 (9,10,11,12) - This is a REALLY breaking-flow-and-combo pattern, doesn't fit well there in my opinion, doing this would be better https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/2809727 (look at the numbers). This is just a suggestion, but really recommended tho. fixed

01:23:250 (2) - Ctrl + G this wouldn't break the flow and put enphasis on this beat 01:23:550 (3) - . Since the vocal is strong there I guess there is no problem and it would be better to add a jump c: fixed

01:28:200 (2) - Overlaping this was confusing, I thought it was a 3/4 rhythm, at least while a played. Maybe it's just me ;_; Nobody else got a problem with that so far, but if somebody else mentions it again i will change it (:

02:22:800 (10) - There's no need of a 1/8 here, there is no 1/8 rhythm here and you were always using big sliders to enphasize this part. Would be weird to have just one 1/8 slider here :c You are right. Really no point in making a 1/8 there. But i kinda liked it :c

03:12:150 (14) - You probably forgot to add a NC here :Dq_q

03:18:750 - You really shouldn't ignore those beats, try adding a stream with a low DS here or 1/4 sliders. done

03:52:800 (10) - Same about the 1/8 I've mentioned before. done

04:17:850 (10) - What about a Ctrl + G to improve the flow? :Ddone

04:55:645 (1) - Using a gray 1/16 tick here would be better. Try listening at 25% and you'll see that 1/2 is really late. changed

04:56:814 (1) - Same here, but 1/4 is better than 1/16. timing and things like that is my worst. lol

05:02:250 (10,11,12,13) - Why slow spaced streams? You were using 0,9x before, try to do the same here, I couldn't notice any weak beats here for low DS :c I like to vary some things, but okay :3

05:55:800 - You should add a stacked circle here. Do anything but pleeeeeeeease don't ignore this beat ;_; GOMENE! Q_q

06:24:450 (1) - I don't recommend stacking this. Some players can miss this by clicking more than 17 times. It's nearly on the end and missing here would be really bad. Plus, the beat here is strong, stacking is really not a good idea. This was actually my intention. I'm such an evil prick. But I should change it. Made the last circle into a slider as well.

07:01:875 (4,5,6,7) - This is more spaced than 07:01:650 (1,2,3) - . Is it intentional? If it is, you can ignore this. Not intentional. It was a sliderstream before. I changed it, but must have picked the wrong DS.

07:36:450 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ~(^O^)~

07:39:450 (1,2,3) - Since the spacing between these sliders and 07:38:850 (1,2,3) - is really near, it can cause a sliderbreak confusing the players. I'd recommend increase the spacing a bit, or instead of sliders you can add streams. That's why i put a NC there. But i increased the spacing as you said, just to make sure

07:42:450 (13) - New combo here? c: done

07:49:050 - There is no beat here to follow, you should end the spinner here and delete 07:49:200 (1) - this note. But it's just a suggestion, you can keep it if you like. Changed it. Most people fall asleep at the last, long spinner anyways. One circle is easier to click than 2 :D
I like this map <3 I like you <3


Thanks for this amazing mod. Helped me improve the map a lot (: And i am glad you like it.
posted
I never said "exact same distance" - you should be aiming to have similar intensity on every reoccurance of a pattern, that's what I'm saying.

You can generate pressure through angles, different ways of utilizing sliders and their hitbox/leniency, note patterning (triangles are more individually pressured than a straight line of notes, for example, since you have strong angles between the notes everytime rather than having to focus on a steady motion) among other things; this, for example, plays entirely differently from this example, even though there's the same distance snap between the two sliders each time.



this is how they will actually be played


Since the player has no reason to actually complete 1 (as the map is continuing in the other direction) they will slip out of it early as to have more time to snap onto 2; you will notice this in just about any replay you watch, people do that. Effectively, this increases the timeframe the player has to hit 2 by about ~5-20% depending on the map in question (not even so much the OD) and decreases the distance travelled by about 0.7x DS in this example.

Also, the motion in this pattern is devided into three parts: the first curve (1), the snap between the sliders aswell as the second curve in the next slider (2) - things like these are to be considered when you want to deliver pressure and keep your map's level reasonably well-constructed.





Now the other example actually gives the player an incentive to complete the first slider (1) as it leads into the second one in one arcish motion - notice how the sliderpath is aligned with the angle towards 2, allowing the player to keep the same angle of motion between the objects, the only turning point being on top of 2 as it leads into the other direction afterwards.

In this case, the distance spacing is accurate, 4.45x as the editor says since you actually complete the slider, hence leave it at the same point that edit uses to calculate the distance.




There, that's one of the things I'm talking about :v
posted

Jenny wrote:

I never said "exact same distance" - you should be aiming to have similar intensity on every reoccurance of a pattern, that's what I'm saying.

You can generate pressure through angles, different ways of utilizing sliders and their hitbox/leniency, note patterning (triangles are more individually pressured than a straight line of notes, for example, since you have strong angles between the notes everytime rather than having to focus on a steady motion) among other things; this, for example, plays entirely differently from this example, even though there's the same distance snap between the two sliders each time.



this is how they will actually be played


Since the player has no reason to actually complete 1 (as the map is continuing in the other direction) they will slip out of it early as to have more time to snap onto 2; you will notice this in just about any replay you watch, people do that. Effectively, this increases the timeframe the player has to hit 2 by about ~5-20% depending on the map in question (not even so much the OD) and decreases the distance travelled by about 0.7x DS in this example.

Also, the motion in this pattern is devided into three parts: the first curve (1), the snap between the sliders aswell as the second curve in the next slider (2) - things like these are to be considered when you want to deliver pressure and keep your map's level reasonably well-constructed.





Now the other example actually gives the player an incentive to complete the first slider (1) as it leads into the second one in one arcish motion - notice how the sliderpath is aligned with the angle towards 2, allowing the player to keep the same angle of motion between the objects, the only turning point being on top of 2 as it leads into the other direction afterwards.

In this case, the distance spacing is accurate, 4.45x as the editor says since you actually complete the slider, hence leave it at the same point that edit uses to calculate the distance.




There, that's one of the things I'm talking about :v


Thanks for that huge explanation. I like to keep things symmetrical, so i just ctrl + h/j many sliders/circles. That's why the gap is this "huge". But okay, i changed it now. If there is anything else you want to add, just go ahead. I was just confused by your talking about "having a fullscreen jump", since i nearly have no fullscreen jumps in this map and i do know that every jump needs its reason, but your examples and explanations make sense.
Thank you for the help.
posted
Thing is, things like these apply throughout the entire map so you'll have to consciously re-evaluate the entire thing on this, probably; I haven't looked through it, but chances are high you didn't take a lot of care when you weren't aware of it, which in itself is okay, you just need to revise it eventually.
posted

Jenny wrote:

Thing is, things like these apply throughout the entire map so you'll have to consciously re-evaluate the entire thing on this, probably; I haven't looked through it, but chances are high you didn't take a lot of care when you weren't aware of it, which in itself is okay, you just need to revise it eventually.


As long as it's not crucial, I probably won't change it. I am aware of my spacing being a bit odd sometimes.
posted
Really great map for rhythm junkies out there. It feels like Red Like Roses I and II but with monster streams instead of monster jumps. Would definitely love to see this ranked, especially wanting to see the competition that will rise when this hits.

Everything seems really good and polished to me (up until the part I failed the death stream). Dragonforce deserve more love from mappers.

Best of luck!
posted
I don't want to judge this map too harshly considering that I personally know little about mapping. However I feel that a song with streams as intense as these, OD9 seems a little harsh. I would suggest using OD8, but in the end, that's up to you.

Other than that, this map is absolutely amazing. :D I wish you luck with getting this mapped!~
posted
OD9 is more appropriate for streams of this BPM
posted
Agree on the od9 possibly being too strict

I can't really play that BPM and spacing well enough to say which OD feels best for not slightly falling off timing/aim and then dropping the entire stream, but the OD to bpm ratio is quite different to fd4d which i play at 222bpm od8 and 180bpm od6.9 (OD proportional to bpm) which works alright. For a similar feel to FD4D you'd need od~7.5, and 9 is quite far away from that so i'm skeptical
posted

-Aeryn- wrote:

Agree on the od9 possibly being too strict

I can't really play that BPM and spacing well enough to say which OD feels best for not slightly falling off timing/aim and then dropping the entire stream, but the OD to bpm ratio is quite different to fd4d which i play at 222bpm od8 and 180bpm od6.9 (OD proportional to bpm) which works alright. For a similar feel to FD4D you'd need od~7.5, and 9 is quite far away from that so i'm skeptical


Opinion differs there. Some people say OD9 is a must and some say it is way too high.
posted
OD is very important for the feel of the streams when you have such crazy spacing, it's very hard to say what's best
posted
#For later modding

And concerning earlier discussion - requirements for ranked / approved maps are really silly sometimes, personally i liked every DoKo diff i played so far, and very much so.
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