I think it would be a really good idea if Osu! had a MOD feature called 'Rehearse' mode, and in rehearse mode the following features would be available:

1) No ranking, scoring or replays happen in rehearse mode.
2) The timeline for the beatmap is shown, just like it is in the editor.
3) You can start, stop and pause the beatmap anywhere in the timeline.
4) You have the four levels of song speed, just like it is in the editor (25%, 50%, 75%, 100%). This would be useful for mastering tricky parts in a beatmap.
5) Four additional song speeds would be added to help master the double time MOD (125%, 150%, 175%, 200%)
6) You can scrub to anywhere in the timeline and set multiple loop points which can be accessed through 10 preset buttons. This would be very useful for practicing the difficult parts of a beatmap, without having to constantly rewind the timeline to practice it over and over. The loop point feature would also be useful for jumping straight to a particular section in the beatmap for practicing (like a bookmark feature), once you have already set up the loop points for the beatmap.
7) The loop points you set will automatically be saved to a text file, and Osu! would automatically recognise the text file as being associated with a particular song.
8) You can toggle on/off computer play mode, in which Osu! will play the beatmap for you with perfect accuracy. This feature would be useful for learning the timing/rhythm aspects of a beatmap, when you have problems figuring it out.

To summarise, I think this would be a very useful and practical MOD to add to Osu! which would enable players to master the beatmaps a lot more easily. The less time we waste practicing the sections of a beatmap we can already do easily, the more repetitions we can fit in an Osu! session to get the damn beatmaps mastered, and this will result in much less overall frustration, and make Osu! players much more happy in general.

Also, just about all of the features I have mentioned above have already been coded into Osu! for use in the editor, so creating a MOD like this would be relatively easy to do.

This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

I'm against it. Sure, it'd remove some of the frustration, but I feel like that's an important part of the experience, and that's what makes the game satisfying.

I am in favor of having the computer play option, though.

Reikin wrote:

This is basically what you can do in Edit mode right now. But I think would be better to have this option, because the game forces you to save to test, which can sometimes cause mind lapses. I almost made S rank on Scatman without 'updating' to latest version. That would have been quite a rage.

EiJi wrote:

I'm all for it. But lets see if I can predict what Echo would say...hmm...

Uhm...

"Unnecessary, use test mode" or something along those lines.

But, test mode doesn't have all of the features I mentioned available to it, does it?

I don't use the editor much since I don't create my own beatmaps, I just play other people's beatmaps. However, I had a quick look at some of the features that are in the editor before posting this thread, and AFAIK, the following features aren't available when testing a beatmap.

1) Song speed settings are lost when testing a beatmap, they are only available when the timeline is visible in edit mode.
2) The timeline isn't visible when testing the beatmap, so you can't scrub through the song without going back into the editor first.
3) You can't set mulitiple loop points that are accessible whilst testing a beatmap, and have them saved to a text file automatically for each song.
4) You have to save the beatmap before testing it, even if you haven't made any changes to it. This can cause problems like Reikin mentioned earlier, where if you forget to update the beatmap before playing it online, you may lose a potential 'S or SS' ranking on the online scoreboard. You could argue that Osu! has a big flashing message that appears before playing the beatmap saying "Update to the latest version", however, this message isn't visible if you are viewing your local scores instead of the online ones.
5) You can't add any MODs whilst practicing in test mode, such as the 'hidden' MOD, or any other future MODs that may be added to Osu! in the future.

EiJi wrote:

"Unnecessary, use test mode"

That's exactly what I want to say!

First, note that half time is actually 75% and double time is actually 150%, not 50/200%, afaik.

I always do exactly what you want in test mode anyway. I used to use Z only since X is play from beginning, but now Z is mapped to jump to start so I use A/S to practice/test a map in the way you want.

I think the only thing that we need to fulfill your request is to add a function to loop between two bookmarks.

edit:
Another possible thing to do is to add a button/option which effectively locks all editing of hitcircles in test mode, so those who don't use z/x can also test a map in edit mode by mouse clicking.

edit2:
ok, maybe add a 125/150% speed option in? that way basically all your points are covered. I think these are unnecessary though.

Echo49 wrote:

EiJi wrote:

"Unnecessary, use test mode"

That's exactly what I want to say!

First, note that half time is actually 75% and double time is actually 150%, not 50/200%, afaik.

I always do exactly what you want in test mode anyway. I used to use Z only since X is play from beginning, but now Z is mapped to jump to start so I use A/S to practice/test a map in the way you want.

I think the only thing that we need to fulfill your request is to add a function to loop between two bookmarks.

edit:
Another possible thing to do is to add a button/option which effectively locks all editing of hitcircles in test mode, so those who don't use z/x can also test a map in edit mode by mouse clicking.

edit2:
ok, maybe add a 125/150% speed option in? that way basically all your points are covered. I think these are unnecessary though.

I edited my previous post and added another reason why I think a rehearse mode is needed. I did this whilst you was typing your previous post, so you may not have seen it.

5) You can't add any MODs whilst practicing in test mode, such as the 'hidden' MOD, or any other future MODs that may be added to Osu! in the future.

I think this is a very important reason why there should be a rehearse mode feature, since no MODs are accessible in the editor.

Then we can ask peppy to implement this for edit as well. It should be possible to do already, since there was a bug a while back that made hidden carry over into edit mode.

Ok, this is my last effort to try to convince everyone that having a rehearse MOD in Osu! is a good idea, and quite frankly, I never imagined I would receive so much opposition for this idea.

Anyway, here are my FINAL five reasons why there should be a rehearse MOD in Osu!, instead of using the editor for the features...

1) Not everyone who plays Osu! knows computers well, they just play games and send emails, etc, and they would find the Osu! editor over complicated for using the features I mentioned above.
2) Some people would take a look at all the menus and features in the editor and get lost and even scared, then immediately quit it. People like myself who have used programs such as Maya, 3DS Max, Photoshop and other complicated menu and feature based programs would have no problems with the Osu! editor, but not all people are okay with this.
3) Not all of the features I have mentioned are currently in the editor. I know they can added to the editor, but then these features would be only available to people that understand how to use and find their way around the editor, rather than the general Osu! community.
4) Having all of the features I mentioned earlier all placed nicely together on one easy to understand toolbar in the rehearse MOD, is much better than having all of the features scattered in an over complicated menu ridden interface ( the editor).
5) All you would need for the rehearse MOD is a timeline bar to scrub with, two buttons for setting start and end markers for a loop point, one button that toggles between playing and pausing, one button to toggle on/off computer play mode, one slider to adjust the song speed, and ten grouped buttons for storing/selecting different loop points. Personally, I think 99% of people new to Osu! (and some experienced players too) would much prefer an easy to understand uncluttered interface, that has all of the features all together on one single toolbar, than having all of these features scattered everywhere in a scary looking menu and feature ridden editor interface, that requires you to save over the original version of the beatmap before you can practice on it.

My case for the rehearse MOD is now closed. The FINAL verdict is now up to you!

I'm against the actual concept of test mode. I suggest you make your first post a poll so we can get a better view of what people think.

I tried to answer your individual points but don't see a need to. Eventually with story mode, editor will be locked for songs, so you won't be able to use test mode either. I think one of the interesting aspects of a rhythm game is to progressively learn a song.

You can't practice certain parts in ouendan, ddr, beatmania, etc. and I totally agree with this way of thinking.

peppy wrote:

I think one of the interesting aspects of a rhythm game is to progressively learn a song.

You can't practice certain parts in ouendan, ddr, beatmania, etc. and I totally agree with this way of thinking.

IMO, I think everyones view on this idea just defies logic. Why should people have to waste valuable and precious time in their lives having to practice the first 3+ minutes of a beatmap they can already do easily, over and over, just to get to the section in it that they are struggling with?

Before I learnt to use the editor and test mode, I wasted nearly 90 minutes of my life mastering a 15 second section on a beatmap. I could already do the first 95% of it easily, but there was just a small section at the end which I struggled to read. I had to play the first 3 minutes of that beatmap over and over (25+ times) till I finally mastered the end of the beatmap. I could have learnt this section of the beatmap in under 5 minutes if I had used the editor to skip past the parts I could already do.

I have turned this thread into a poll as Peppy suggested in his previous post, so please go to the very first post to vote. However, just remember this one thing before you all vote, "Peppy will be locking test mode in future versions of Osu!, so you wont be able to practice any FUTURE beatmaps in the editor any more."

As discussed by some people earlier, what you are already requesting is almost similar to "test mode" in editor . . .

James wrote:

As discussed by some people earlier, what you are already requesting is almost similar to "test mode" in editor . . .

Everyone keeps on saying to me that rehearse mode is pointless because we already have a test mode in the editor. I'm not even going to waste my time trying to convince people that we need a rehearse mode in Osu, just read my previous posts for the reasons why we need this feature.

Peppy quote: "Eventually with story mode, editor will be locked for songs, so you won't be able to use test mode either."

Anyway, as Peppy mentioned in his previous post, everyones precious test mode will be locked soon anyway, so you wont even have that to practice with.

Ah okay, didn't read the whole thing, haha.
Too lazy...

peppy, some clarification is required on what you mean by blocking out test mode. Are you blocking it out from all songs or just the story mode songs or something else?

Either way, I don't agree that test mode should be blocked out.

While it is arguable that other rhythm games don't have this function, the console version of a game that originated from the arcade almost always have a Practice/Training mode. In fact, I think Ouendan is the only rhythm game that I know of (that can be played somewhere other than the arcade) that does NOT have this feature, and it is something that bugged me immensely. If anything, only the story mode songs should be blocked out.

And for the accuracy stat, players can simply play offline until they are sufficiently adept at a beatmap then play it online, so all that would be achieved from this is a waste of player's time. The only reason I played online while practicing Scatman was because I was gaining accuracy while I was playing. Players like Saturos can simply do the above and maintain the accuracy. And I don't think it would be a very good move for Osu! to become completely online.

I think the player should be locked out of playing Test mode in Editor and a separate Practice/Training mode should be created for this purpose, which could be like the Editor interface, but all placement and timing options are locked, so that players are not required to save or accidentally touch the map before they actually start practicing.

You could still use the Test mode in the Editor however but the computer would play through the beatmap rather than you, either with autoplay or pseudo-play like that seen in the Skin selection screen.

I dunno, I'll think of a better idea if I get one.

Reikin wrote:

peppy, some clarification is required on what you mean by blocking out test mode. Are you blocking it out from all songs or just the story mode songs or something else?

peppy wrote:

Eventually with story mode, editor will be locked for songs, so you won't be able to use test mode either.

Am I not clear enough?

Reikin wrote:

..the console version of a game that originated from the arcade almost always have a Practice/Training mode

Training mode where you can play specific portions of the song? I have never seen this.

Accuracy drop can easily be avoided by playing on relax or whatever, who cares about that.

I disagree on making a separate training interface and find it totally unnecessary in a rhythm game.

adamskii_uk wrote:

...everyones precious test mode will be locked soon anyway, so you wont even have that to practice with...

I love how you feel it correct to say "everyone". In fact I don't love it, I find it really assumptious. Also if you read my original message, I did say it was for story mode. It will also be true for any competition maps or other special maps. No it will not be locked for ranked maps....

If you can't figure out a particular rhythm by:
>Watching a replay
>Playing in nofail mode
>Trying many times without nofail

Then you should play a song of easier difficulty until you get used to rhythm.

Or you can use Half-Time and Easy. In fact, all the mods that make the game easier are there for exactly that purpose: making the game easier.

What turned out to be a simple suggestion which, IMO, would have improved the Osu! experience for some people, has now started to get out of hand, and if I continue posting in this thread I will probably end up making a lot of enemies on here, which I don't want.

I know I've been a bit pushy on all of this rehearse MOD stuff, and to be honest it's been for my own selfish reasons. I really wanted these features in the game to help me become a much better Osu! player, since I get very bored repeating the same easy sections over and over to get to the part of the beatmap I'm stuck on. I will be using the test mode that's in the editor for now, since it's currently my only option for skipping past the easy parts of a beatmap. But, as it currently stands it doesn't support a lot of the features I mentioned earlier, such as song speed adjustment (editor mode only), loop points, and mods, etc.

As for any assumptions and comments I have made about Peppy and everyone else, I'm sorry.

adam, you have to keep in mind that something like this would take quite some time for peppy to program, and seeing it's not completely necessary, it'd be better for peppy to be working on other more anticipated features like multiplayer, storyboard editor, or opengl support.

I'm not trying to discourage you from playing or stopping you from improving, I'm just trying to give you suggestions on how to do something like this with the features already in Osu.

peppy wrote:

In fact I don't love it, I find it really assumptious.

That's my favourite phantom word of the week

Totally agree with those who have spoken before, rehearse mod is unnecessary. The hair-tearing and mouse-throwing and tantrums are like 90% of the fun of the game!

After some extensive playing yesterday, my oppinion is that testing shouldn't really be used at all, nor should a rehearse mode, possibly with the exception of extremely long songs (parapara), although that's not going to get ranked.

I kind of like quick clicking with my middle mouse button and hitting retry over and over again until I get a full combo :) Really makes it a satisfying experience.

This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

I think it is kinda ridiculous that you are calling us to be stuck in a "dark age" just because some people prefers the challenge of learning the song from scratch instead of being able to work on sections they are stuck on and so on.

I am not saying a rehearse mode is not good, but personally, I know even if it is there, I probably won't be using it. XD

And of course, to be honest... I don't think your demo proves anything. If you give me a song and I play that song over an hour with a no fail mod. I probably would be able to FC it too.

some important features are missing in test mode for practicing the EXTREMELY difficult and fast beatmaps

Learn to walk before you run.

Once you've played a while, you'll be able to sight read almost anything. Build up your skill slowly from the beginning. When I started out, I couldn't even finish an easy beatmap. Now, I can FC a fairly hard map in my first few tries.

peppy wrote:

Reikin wrote:

peppy, some clarification is required on what you mean by blocking out test mode. Are you blocking it out from all songs or just the story mode songs or something else?

peppy wrote:

Eventually with story mode, editor will be locked for songs, so you won't be able to use test mode either.

Am I not clear enough?

Actually you weren't until you said this later on the post.

peppy wrote:

Also if you read my original message, I did say it was for story mode. It will also be true for any competition maps or other special maps. No it will not be locked for ranked maps....

That aside...

peppy wrote:

Reikin wrote:

..the console version of a game that originated from the arcade almost always have a Practice/Training mode

Training mode where you can play specific portions of the song? I have never seen this.

Take a look at an FAQ website such as GameFAQs for games such as Beatmania or DDR. Most of these game have included a training mode of sorts, and where it hasn't been done is on very old consoles such as GBA and WS.

peppy wrote:

Accuracy drop can easily be avoided by playing on relax or whatever, who cares about that.

There are a few people that don't like to see their accuracy drop.

peppy wrote:

If you can't figure out a particular rhythm by:
>Watching a replay
>Playing in nofail mode
>Trying many times without nofail

Then you should play a song of easier difficulty until you get used to rhythm.

This I agree with.

I'm not against the locking of test mode for competition songs and story mode songs with all this in hand however. If other ranked songs can be practiced at will via test mode after this occurs then I have no objections to make.

MaxwellDemon wrote:

I think it is kinda ridiculous that you are calling us to be stuck in a "dark age" just because some people prefers the challenge of learning the song from scratch instead of being able to work on sections they are stuck on and so on.

I am not saying a rehearse mode is not good, but personally, I know even if it is there, I probably won't be using it. XD

And of course, to be honest... I don't think your demo proves anything. If you give me a song and I play that song over an hour with a no fail mod. I probably would be able to FC it too.

The point I'm trying to make is this:

1) Player 'A' is stuck on an EXTREMELY difficult section of a 5 minute long beatmap, and the section he is stuck on is the very last 15 seconds of the beatmap. He plays the beatmap with the 'no fail' MOD turned on and plays perfectly right up to the point he is stuck on, but on his first attempt at this section, he ends up failing.

He then plays the beatmap from start to finish, over and over, till he masters that one small section that he's stuck on. It takes him 30 attempts till he finally masters it, then he finally rejoices after wasting 150 minutes of his life.

2) Player 'B' is stuck on the exact same section on the beatmap as player 'A' is. He then goes into the editor and practices that same section 30 times just like player 'A' did. Player 'B' ends up mastering the beatmap too just like player 'A' did, however, it only takes player 'B' seven and a half minutes to master it. Player 'B' rejoices for completing the beatmap and has 142 minutes spare to do other things in life, like mastering other beatmaps for example, or having sex with the Mrs, etc.

If everyone can't see the logic in having a practice feature in Osu, even if it's just the test mode in the editor, then I feel sorry for you all.

Have you tried playing a map over and over at 60 minutes with only no fail before claiming its lack of efficency?

But then, you can't speak for everyone.

I think my MAX 3000! would need a bit more than an hour with or without Test mode lol.

Either way, Test mode will STILL BE AVAILABLE when the lock out occurs. Just not to specific songs.

Test mode should realistically only be used for unmodded play testing. Practicing with mods and whatnot is not really something that is too feasible in peppy's eyes as those mods are optional and are used as a means of getting a song harder which is only used when you are adept at a song ie. you know the rhythm well enough already.

Still somewhat annoys me that I have to save before 'testing' though.

MaxwellDemon wrote:

Have you tried playing a map over and over at 60 minutes with only no fail before claiming its lack of efficency?

But then, you can't speak for everyone.

I have actually. I played 'IOSYS - FOE to no Souguu' over 100 times from start to finish with the 'no fail' MOD turned on, before I finally mastered it.

memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=8432

The stats in the link above don't include the times I practiced the beatmap offline. It's because of the sheer frustration with practicing this beatmap and other beatmaps, I came up with the rehearse mode feature idea. I wasted several hours of my life mastering the last section of that beatmap, when I could have easily used the editor to skip past the parts I could already do, and master it a lot more quickly.

The thing most people are not taking into account is that some people take far more repetition to get good at something that what other people do. For example, some people can practice something just a couple of times and start to get the hang of it straight away. Whilst for others, it would require maybe 50 or even more than 100 attempts to master the exact same thing. But both people, could master it equally well, it would just take the second person a lot more repetition to do so.

This is why I think being able to skip straight to the difficult sections in a beatmap is very important, for some people at least. So they can learn the beatmap a lot more quickly, because they may need 100+ repetitions on that one section till their brain/body finally learns it.

adamskii_uk wrote:

1) Player 'A'..
2) Player 'B'..

3) Player 'C' watches a replay of Saturos playing the beatmap and realises the rhythm, then plays and passes next attempt.
4) Player 'D' uses nofail to pass the map and is penalized slightly by their score, due to their inability to comprehend a rhythm that other players successfully did. Their lower score ressembles their lack of skills.
5) Player 'E' plays an easier version of the beatmap.

If you feel osu! is wasting your life, then maybe you shouldn't play. It is a game after all - if you aren't enjoying it, then go do something productive with your time! Keep in mind that games have a certain degree of frustration, and this usually drives your urge to play again and again until you beat it.

The only thing I could possibly see coming from this is the option to play a ranked song for ranking or for practice. Currently this (as it's been mentioned a large number of times) can be through test mode. But, honestly, I'm paranoid of losing too much accuracy on one beatmap that I may trip up on, and have been straying away from playing them, as well as playing easier maps with Hidden and other similar mods. Having an option to play without effecting your ranked score would be nice, but I'm probably one of the few who actually cares about their accuracy. And atleast this way, you can practice with some mods on.

Then again, this could be done by simply logging out.

You`re not alone. I care about my accuracy too. I dunno, but I think this mod will be useful somehow.

Reading saturos's post makes me with I limited osu! to online only mode, with no way to play maps without affecting accuracy. Because that was my intention for the stat -.-

Figured that'd be your response.

I honestly don't know why I worry about it so much, as it can be bullshitted by playing easy stuff repeatedly, so it doesn't really matter as a stat. It just bothers me when it falls. :<

That's why you should have a crappy-ish accuracy, like me. When I play a map, even for the first time, it almost always goes up.

peppy wrote:

I'm against the actual concept of test mode. I suggest you make your first post a poll so we can get a better view of what people think.

I tried to answer your individual points but don't see a need to. Eventually with story mode, editor will be locked for songs, so you won't be able to use test mode either. I think one of the interesting aspects of a rhythm game is to progressively learn a song.

I'm aware this is a bit of a necro, but I just wanted to voice my opinion here -- While having no practice mode is viable and interesting for "fair" songs, like in EBA/Ouendan, you have to admit a lot of higher difficulty songs here use dirty tricks to trip up players or are just generally ridiculous. While I'm sure a few people have done it, I honestly can't imagine having beaten Agony on Insane without practicing the individual patterns in edit mode first -- the song moves so fast and fails you so quickly that trial and error would likely mean hours upon hours of restarting just to figure out what the patterns were supposed to be. Discovery is fun -- frustration because you can't figure out a song isn't.

I've got the general impression you want Osu to be newbie friendly. Taking out methods of practice isn't the way to do that. There's a large disparity between difficulties right now and without the ability to go to a specific part of a song that's giving them trouble and figure it out, many newer players may simply give up. There's no linear skill progression where each song leads into the next and teaches you new skills like in Ouendan, so new players may be completely flattened by things they don't expect and then have no idea how to solve it. Letting them play the sections in slow-mo or "read" them first will help them learn -- and therefore, help them get better. Do we really want the game to be less newbie friendly?

Edit: Check my next post (two posts down) before replying to this one.

I don't get it

there's Half-speed, Relax, and Easy mods to help you with learning the way a map works. In fact, to test-drive my theory I'mma give MAX FOREVER a spin, brb

k back

Easy mode mighta been a bad idea; it got really cluttered with those big notes

300 / 100 / 50 / X
637 / 40 / 20 / 46

that was with a few impossible spinners, too

Accuracy 87.98%, first time actually playing that map (sorry Rolled ;________;) so 88% with handicap mods on the most (one of the most?) difficult osu map available. I picked up on a number of tricks (and found out why I kept failing the first Hatredcopter, I think)

also YAY ETNA SLIDERS but Etna Sliders were marked as Shotgun Symphony (round 2) when they originated from LOVERIN TAMBURIN - Aishitageru what injustice have you done to beauty queen Etna =(

anyhow my point is, the mods in place should greatly help the inexperienced learn a beatmap if they can help a veteran SIGHTREAD the hardest map available

Edit: aaand that's what I get for not reading the whole topic. Someone said yesterday in chat that "peppy's taking out test mode permanently" and I didn't bother reading past the first page on this topic as a result. Sigh. Now that I know it's only certain songs which'll be locked, I'm temporarily withdrawing my argument and I'll reserve further opinions until I get a clearer idea of what'll be restricted.

Yeah, the problem is, some people have a tendency to miscommunicate things.

And then not even think about trying to read and comprehend what it is they're miscommunicating. I mean, what the hell, taking out test mode from the editor? Us mods are inactive enough as it is, so why further cripple our productivity.

That's just plain silly.