CrimsonClaw wrote:

Hey babe

M4M (please mod it after the 15th of April): https://osu.ppy.sh/s/351759 You personally asked me to delay this even furtherly, so I'll do.

General Stuff

1. We've talked about it before: Approachrate Spread. As I was telling you: It's a pretty modern way to recude the approachrate difficulty wise, as of the hardest diff is having the lowest Approachrate, which makes it (probably) harder to read them proper. I actually like it. I don't think it's a big issue after all because you just could change it to a classical rankable AR spread if it's a real issue. So just keep it and let's let the discussion about it roll. Let's have more people talk about it.
2. I like your SR spread.
3. Timing: Alright.
4. Background: Great + Alright.

Easy

00:17:324 (2) - the space in this large slider is kinda unused. Maybe reshape it a bit and put 00:19:199 (3) - this bad boy in there? Nah, I'm avoiding complicated shapes.
00:54:824 (1) - I really enjoy those. Creative, even if they weren't that big of an effort. I've drawn millions of them when I still were in
primary school. Well, they perfectly fit into the song's theme.
Constant break spread. Nice
03:05:605 - empty? why? Kiai pls Fixed.

Normal

00:00:449 (1) - (completely optional) emphasize the red point a bit more by pulling it down. Maybe that's just me but I think the heart needs it :^D Good idea, but I had too much trouble setting the shape up in the first place. I would change it if I was good at doing proper slider shapes.
00:17:558 (2) - at least make the sliderend end near the slidertick of 00:18:027 (1) .-. I won't do this because the intention was to form half a circle together with 00:16:386 (1) - .
00:18:027 (1,2,1) - I know it's nothing special but I really enjoy the flow here.
00:27:636 (2) - same with this one. I actually think it is more important to have the sliderends point towards the head of each following slider.
00:42:636 (1) - same tbh
And by the way, by near, I mean this: http://puu.sh/ogXf0/5e78a9a46f.jpg
02:15:449 (1,2,3,4) - make this a blanket spam maybe? Idk it looks fine to me like this Nah, I'll keep it this way to kill the blanket modders' OCD. c:
03:11:464 (1) - that spacing, damn son. I seriously think this was not intended! It was intended, but I see it's a bit too much.

Neat diff.

Hard

00:26:230 (4) - make this badboy end on a red tick. Explaining this would be a bit troublesome, maybe you see my point. Yeah, fixed.
00:31:386 (6,1) - maybe just stack them because you didn't really use this kind of overlap consistently OR do it like you did here: 01:05:136 (5,1) - and 01:12:636 (5,1) - here Used a whole new pattern tho
01:43:574 (1,2,3,4,5) - I don't see a reason for this kind of inconsistent Distance Snap I think I remember what I did there. Boy was I stupid.
02:38:886 (2,1) - I don't see a reason for these not to be blanket-ized! :^) Come on, that's good enough of a pattern

A I R

01:06:074 (1) - more spacing? .-. Okay
Nothing else from my side. Gosh, 10/10

Stjpa wrote:

Sorry für die Verspätung. :v Hab nichtmal nen Mod erwartet LOL

[Easy]
• 00:39:824 (1) - Vocal-wise a circle + 2/1 slider would make more sense. True
• 01:39:824 (1,2) - Ugliest blanket I've ever seen. For the love of firetruck, since when are blankets relevant?
• 01:41:699 (3) - Shouldn't this be NC'd because it's actually a new sentence? I figure that this leads to NC-spam, so I narrowed stuff down.
• 01:49:199 (1) - And here you need to remove NC. Aye
• 02:38:417 (2,3) - Isn't this inconsistent because you didn't map anything 02:34:667 here? I can only guess if you have a reasoning for it or not, but if not you gotta delete them. I distinguished those parts individually, so their structure is different as well. It's consistent throughout the part of the song, so it should be okay.
Also, using a 1/1 slider 02:38:886 here fits way better as your current sliderhead doesn't have a prominent sound on it but the slidertail does. Oh my god, I ignored a downbeat... Guess that happens with filler diffs...
• 02:45:917 (2) - Use 1/2 slider here? You have enough recovery time to do that and it covers the music better. Using a slider here will ignore a downbeat.
• 02:58:574 (1) - Rotate it a bit so you can form a triangle with the slidertail of 02:57:636 (3) ? That's what I tried.

[Normal]
• Isn't this diff unrankable because of the bad SV spread? I don't see how SV-spreads can influence the rankability of a set. The Normal is well-sandwiched between the Easy in the Hard, so why would the SV not be okay?
• 00:39:824 (1,2) - This would be neater if you ask me. I refrained myself from using those too often for simplicity's sake.
• 01:30:449 (1,2) - I'm actually really unsure about using triplets in a Normal, but since it's low BPM it should be fine I guess. Also, this pattern needs to be a triplet too because 01:31:152 (3) this has a sound that also appears 01:30:683 here. I used a different kind of reasoning tho. Imagine the second set of objects as a double plus a connecting slider, and you might see what I mean. With this reasoning, your suggestion rather causes an inconsistency.

[Hard]
• 00:00:449 (1) - Spinner doesn't make any sense since you mapped the vocals normally in the previous diffs. Fixed.

[Air]
• 01:34:550 (4,5) - Are you sure about this spacing when there's just 1/4 difference? You never did something similar anywhere else in the map. True, I used the cavaty of the slider to place the stream in.
• 02:18:495 (8,9) - Jump is a bit huge compared to all the other ones. At least I had problems aiming that when testplaying lol. Slightly decreased the spacing and improved the flow.

That's it, time to let the mapping scene explode.

Zetera wrote:

"SKELETONS"

Krfawy wrote:

https://osu.ppy.sh/b/950640

May I ask how is it that possible to use AR7 in the easiest difficulty if:

A) it's not a marathon map
B) it would work better with AR2 or AR3
C) it is clearly not okay when it comes to play it
D) newer players aren't usually able to read anything above AR5 or AR6

Clearly, I am asking about standard mode.

1. Players who are still learning general concepts of the game will not be able to read it at all
2. The high AR does not work with low velocity and spacing values, making gameplay feel broken and forced

1. Please, get rid of extra transparency in your .png files, I do not think they serve any purpose.

1. Slider Tick Rate seems to be making little if any sense with the main rhythm you follow as you're constantly following 1/1 rhythm.

1. Since we are talking AR changes, this could benefit from AR 5 or 5,5. For SV/DS matching purposes. This should deliver more comfortable gameplay.
2. I also do not support the concept of spacing changes in this difficulty, as I believe it to be too much of a difficulty jump from Easy to Normal.
   Example: 03:03:027 (2,3,1) -
3. 1/4 usage there also causes a lot of questions. For example, we cna have a look at 02:28:105 (4,1) - that requires quite a lot of rapid (for the target skill level player) reaction and in comparison with the Easy we are having a huge difficulty gap.

Bakari wrote:

A disqualification has been requested!

Krfawy wrote:

https://osu.ppy.sh/b/950640

May I ask how is it that possible to use AR7 in the easiest difficulty if:

A) it's not a marathon map
B) it would work better with AR2 or AR3
C) it is clearly not okay when it comes to play it
D) newer players aren't usually able to read anything above AR5 or AR6

Clearly, I am asking about standard mode.

Answer to Krfawy's arguments: I do not see how you can make these judgements when in reality, there is no comparison. Time Bomb does not count as an example, since its density and OD are completely different. So your points on functionality and easier gameplay are nullified, because I am fairly sure you cannot tell whether it is okay or not due to a lack of maps that follow my principle.

In addition to that, I have to add that the current AR on Easy and Normal takes the rhythm-centered structure of the game away and makes it more reaction-centered, hence the original concept of a rhythm-game is taken away. Easy difficulties have to be beginner-friendly, and this is where your AR7 concept fails. I can agree on this aspect. Seni and I had a conversation over this and I know about what I am doing with that high AR. However, I chose not to DQ the set myself, since the other difficulties of the set are realising the exact opposite, to display how I do care about rhythm. Therefore, I assumed it is justified to have the lower diffs also have AR7, just to have beginners realise how the connection between object and music is set up. With that knowledge, players were supposed to handle the higher diffs with relative ease, at least accounting for the step from Easy to Normal or Normal to Hard.
If this can absolutely not be agreed on, I am of course willing to change the AR for the lower diffs, while I want to keep the low AR on the highest diff because of the additional challenge.

With this being said, I have to add that multiple people have complained about it with more concerns:

1. Players who are still learning general concepts of the game will not be able to read it at all This is what I have discussed in my comment on Krfawy's points. How do we know it is not actually supporting them? Monstrata gave the example of PewDiePie playing in his video and pressing way too early on, which is exactly what drove me to try this.
2. The high AR does not work with low velocity and spacing values, making gameplay feel broken and forced What if it was slightly adjusted, lowered, to make this more adequate?

Having this said, we want you to reply to these concerns, so we can have the discussion going in some productive direction.

Bakari wrote:

Now let me put some personal notes and thoughts.

[General]

1. Please, get rid of extra transparency in your .png files, I do not think they serve any purpose. If you are talking about the SB files, then my b, I am very bad at graphical editing. I might as well just delete the storyboard, for it was made j4f.

[Easy]

1. Slider Tick Rate seems to be making little if any sense with the main rhythm you follow as you're constantly following 1/1 rhythm. I intended to make it consistent, but I'll change that if you insist.

[Normal]

1. Since we are talking AR changes, this could benefit from AR 5 or 5,5. For SV/DS matching purposes. This should deliver more comfortable gameplay.
2. I also do not support the concept of spacing changes in this difficulty, as I believe it to be too much of a difficulty jump from Easy to Normal.
   Example: 03:03:027 (2,3,1) - Yeah, since I mainly don't have those in the Hard either, I proceeded to fix that.
3. 1/4 usage there also causes a lot of questions. For example, we cna have a look at 02:28:105 (4,1) - that requires quite a lot of rapid (for the target skill level player) reaction and in comparison with the Easy we are having a huge difficulty gap. There is one part that I cannot really deal with other than using 1/4 sliders (01:30:449 - ), but I got rid of most the 1/4, primarily the ones that were in that post-kiai part.

Hope this can get addressed as well!

Zetera wrote:

Can you agree on 4.5/5/6.5/7?