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Streaming hand problems

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22
Kert
2,079 posts
Joined June 2009
Topic Starter
Kert
Hello.
I've been playing osu! for a long time.
Almost from the very beginning I was playing with slim keyboard, which worked pretty fine for me
Recently I've started having a lot of problems with triples and any streams which are placed somewhere inbetween single tap sections
I also bought a mech kb with red switches, but that made the situation even worse. I can miss on any short stream on bpm>170 with a very high chance. Usually it's like 300-300-300-x-100 or similar. It's a complete disaster and I can't understand what is causing this. This is partly fixed when I'm really warmed up (like 2-3 hours), but it feels more like controlled mashing than normal streaming.
Yes, it seems like I tend to mash on mech (probably because of longer travel distance). Playing more so far doesn't make any difference. The weird thing I tried is streaming with another hand instead. It can't go for long and can't do medium fast streams (bpm>=200), it quickly starts to burn because of obvious lack of training/stamina. But key presses are very light and accurate if bpm is in the comfort zone. I can't reproduce the same with my actual streaming hand. It is just kind of unable to make tiny movements. Or I am doing something wrong
Is muscle memory the cause? Have I damaged the nerves? Who knows.
It certainly does have enough stamina for long streams and stuff, it's just that mashing causes fingers missing the keys completely plus I don't really feel how fast I am going
Video sample here: p/3743991

Any advice?
Last edited by Kert , edited 1 time in total.
I Give Up
1,648 posts
Joined January 2014
I Give Up
Definitely muscle memory issue. I have same problem, when I treat my mech like as if it was my old slim keyboard I get good accuracy but can't stream fast. Then when I try and push buttons gently I can stream very fast (well to me anyway) but my accuracy is like a kid with a piano and I really can't feel how fast I'm going. It's been like this for me since the last 4 million hits. I certainly hope to fix my problem by playing more. Good luck to ya as well buddy.
dung eater
2,395 posts
Joined December 2013
dung eater
You could try using o-rings to make the key travel distance shorter, i feel it makes blacks feel a bit more like a laptop keyboard.
ZenithPhantasm
ZenithPhantasm
Get RSI. Become next lewa.
winber1
4,520 posts
Joined February 2010
winber1
then go practice stream practice maps, and enable that accuracy bar at the bottom where you can see exactly how early or late you pressed the notes, and stare at that all day

otherwise it seems more like an aim problem

aagajkl;gwjhnalkz
Kert
2,079 posts
Joined June 2009
Topic Starter
Kert
The hit meter doesn't help cause misses happen because the key isn't pressed, not because of me being too slow/fast
I'll think about trying out o-rings, though I doubt it will help to stop mashing
ZenithPhantasm
ZenithPhantasm

Kert wrote:

The hit meter doesn't help cause misses happen because the key isn't pressed, not because of me being too slow/fast
I'll think about trying out o-rings, though I doubt it will help to stop mashing
O-rings won't make you better. Practice does.
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny
would help with a replay

i remember you had an S on mad machine also?

also by the looks of it you play a lot of relax, which doesn't really help the situation
Kert
2,079 posts
Joined June 2009
Topic Starter
Kert
Yes, it's still there. Good old times
I don't often play relax, just went silly yesterday
Will make a replay later today once I come back from work
Kert
2,079 posts
Joined June 2009
Topic Starter
Kert
Sample of this problem

Check 1:57. Also beginning of streams fucked up at 2:48, 2:59
Usually first thing happens but if there was no slider and if it was HR I'd certainly miss
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Vuelo Eluko
seems like to reset faster from your singletapping so you can transition into 1/4's [or the other way around] easier maybe? could be the extra travel distance thats causing the issue after all, and practice is probably the only solution, rewrite this basic motion you've got memorized to your new keyboard. I can't see this not going away if you just played the maps where the issue arises enough.

That said, it's pretty unusual seeing a really good player ask for help here of all places. usually its the rank 100k people who think they should be able to do streams and 5 star maps after 2k plays and wonder why they cant
Last edited by Vuelo Eluko , edited 1 time in total.
Kert
2,079 posts
Joined June 2009
Topic Starter
Kert

Riince wrote:

That said, it's pretty unusual seeing a really good player ask for help here of all places.
Where else? No one I know has this problem and all people I asked are out of ideas
I have this problem for like a year already so that's another reason why
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Vuelo Eluko
a whole year? how much of those plays were actually spent on maps where the issue comes into play though? maybe you were avoiding them because they annoyed you rather than grinding on them to fix it.. well thats what i would have done anyway but im bad so...

if you really were spending a lot of time playing those maps and it didnt go away, well idk. maybe the more time you spend doing something one way, it takes more and more time to do it differently.. so if playing more doesnt work, it might even be an equipment issue? I once had keys not register from time to time.. and it was a soldering problem with my keyboard. it was worse when i pressed down hard so it may even be related, but probably it's not.
Kert
2,079 posts
Joined June 2009
Topic Starter
Kert
Keys are fine, I am sure.
It's not "those maps", it's almost any map with streams. Well I played HR the most last year and the parts I missed were exactly the streams and the cause was not aim.
What's really bothering me is the thing I explained about difference between hands and how my main streaming hand feels like "damaged" in comparison with the other one. And I slightly recall it was fine some time ago
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Vuelo Eluko
I see, well if you really feel that way, your best bet is to schedule your hand for a NCV test. get in touch with your physician. Good luck.

You'll be glad to hear its fairly cheap, I believe its around 40$-70$, per arm/hand.

So if nothing else, this will offer you peace of mind if it comes up fine, and let you focus on other things without the idea of nerve damage bringing you down in the back of your head.
Last edited by Vuelo Eluko , edited 3 times in total.
Daborgia
60 posts
Joined November 2013
Daborgia
Maybe thats some shenanigan in my head, but i have the feeling your upper button ( the one u don´t single tap) has a slight delay but funnywise on other streams in your video your timing is alright (2nd stream middle of stream instead at the beginning)...
Maybe your muscle/strains in your secondary finger aren´t as flexible/trained as your tapping finger and this makes this little delay/damage. So my tipp would be: train your secondary finger by some fingertraining (guitartraining), play easymaps and tap with your other finger or maybe play some mania and also use your other finger.
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny

Kert wrote:

Sample of this problem

Check 1:57. Also beginning of streams fucked up at 2:48, 2:59
Usually first thing happens but if there was no slider and if it was HR I'd certainly miss
1.57 - looks like you thought it was a triple -> slider, making you hit the 4th note later
2.48 - looks like you streamed a slower bpm, then realised it was too slow and compensated it with more speed
2.59 - you started the stream late to get that first 100, and your stream is very borderline being too late, so you got a 100 if you streamed even a bit slower than the song bpm

basically, you're underestimating stream speed, or you're starting them way too late which gives you less leeway




ooooooooooooooor your osu client has mini spikes, which can cause your keys to register late/not register


honestly though, it's pretty hard to work with only one example.
theLiminator
68 posts
Joined October 2011
theLiminator
I think i might have the same problem, despite 10000 plays with my left hand as my tapping hand, my right hand can stream about 30 bpm faster and with lower UR.
Kert
2,079 posts
Joined June 2009
Topic Starter
Kert
The thing about secondary finger is very true
Currently tapping with it most of the time and I definetly feel more precise key pressing everywhere
So far I've played only slow maps though

2buny:
It's late because one of the fingers just misses pressing the key, I am really sure of that
winber1
4,520 posts
Joined February 2010
winber1
have you tried practicing alternating or using the other finger as the main single tapping finger

probably would help get you into the feeling pressing down/bottoming out with it.
Kert
2,079 posts
Joined June 2009
Topic Starter
Kert
I was a full alternate player not long ago. Not on mech though
Haven't tried practicing with another finger before, doing it now
B1rd
2,974 posts
Joined December 2013
B1rd
I've noticed the same thing, my streaming is a lot better with my aiming hand. It's nothing wrong with your nerves or anything, just muscle memory. I used to use mouse for tapping, and when I changed to a mech keyboard I couldn't stream at all and just mashed every stream. I've noticed the issue doesn't really get better just by normal playing.
What I think you need to do is relearn streaming using a mech keyboard. Download all of Ranefire's stream practice maps and practice 120-180bpm, and concentrate on streaming properly with the mech keyboard. I also recommend practising full alternating to get better finger control. And until you learn to stream properly don't start playing other stuff and take breaks in stream practice because you'll just revert to before. Unlearning muscle memory is hard but it's the only thing you can do.
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