Lets see who here is the rager and who here is the one who deals with it

Did you smoke something mate? If you have, better share it.

I'm laughing becase FUCK YOU IM LAUGHING

Negative feedback doesn't help

weed

I AM THE BEST PERSON IN THE WORLD AND I AM ALWAYS RIGHT AND IF YOU THINK OTHERWISE YOU ARE AN IDIOT OMG LOK AT YOU CRYING LEL XDDDDDDD

stop being bad and you won't get any

ColdTooth wrote:

Negative feedback doesn't help

Sorry, i gotta disagree. Negative feedback is very helpfull, provided it is constructive. "Your work sucks lol" is not helpfull but "I dont like how you did this pattern, maybe try to place the circles 10 11 12 closer together?" Is very helpfull.

With that said i greathly prefer constructive negative feedback over praise. "Awesome!" Does neither tell me why its awesome nor tell me how i can maybe make it even more awesome.

Awesome word structuring Granger!
Joke, joke... but no, I have to disagree with you on that. There are so many types of people, that you can't simply say one is better than the other. Some people do better simply by you patting their shoulder and telling them they did good, regardless of the level of their work, while some people unconsciously prefer "harsh" feedback - A.K.A. you telling them they suck goddamn ass. Why? Because then they get all fired up and want to prove to the rest of the world they can do better and make you eat your words. I personally prefer praise over any kind of "constructive" help.
Yes, you told me I'll do better if I place my finger here and not there, but are you TRULY a reliable source of advice? In my mind, unless you're a saint of wisdom - nope. I'd rather do shit my own way and learn from my own fails.

Aurani wrote:

Yes, you told me I'll do better if I place my finger here and not there, but are you TRULY a reliable source of advice? In my mind, unless you're a saint of wisdom - nope. I'd rather do shit my own way and learn from my own fails.

Feedback, prositive and negative, constructive or not is a oponion and should be threated as such, its always up to you to decide what you do with feedback. As long it is not a troll, its what a person thinks about your work and ideas on how to improve, even if theres better ways to do it that that person proposed.
Like... when a bunch of people tells you that the curve seems a bit too steep, theres a chance it is really too steep even if they are not veterans in idk... something something curves...
At the very least it can make you look over the bad parts again thinking how to improve it which may spark a entirely new idea how you could approach it.

Of course, some people prefer praise or other stuff but is it helpfull? I mean, does this person help you by saying "Awesome!"?

Granger wrote:

With that said i greathly prefer constructive negative feedback over praise. "Awesome!" Does neither tell me why its awesome nor tell me how i can maybe make it even more awesome.

This.

Holy hell was it annoying to make textures for weapon models and only hear comments along the lines of "its good" for criticism.

Resisting an automatic defensive impulse and actually considering negative feedback/insults will make you a better person.

IppE wrote:

Granger wrote:

With that said i greathly prefer constructive negative feedback over praise. "Awesome!" Does neither tell me why its awesome nor tell me how i can maybe make it even more awesome.

This.

Holy hell was it annoying to make textures for weapon models and only hear comments along the lines of "its good" for criticism.

Criticism is something in the lines of "It looks cool but~" or "It's shit because~". You make opinions from valid reasons, therefore you stand on something because you thing that is right, or correct. Things such as "OMG HE MADE THE BEST TEXTURE EVER" or "OMG THIS IS SHIT MINE IS BETTER" without any proof or reason backing up is called being a dicksucker or just being a dick in general

Make reasonable context about opinions. Dont just shove death threats or racial messages because you didn't like the product

Granger wrote:

Like... when a bunch of people tells you that the curve seems a bit too steep, theres a chance it is really too steep even if they are not veterans in idk... something something curves...

So, you're telling me that other people know what is or isn't too steep for you? I call bullshit on that. No one except for you knows what is and isn't hard - WITH the exception of you doing so badly that other people have to facepalm and tell you that you need to tone it down a little bit - but you have to be truly mongrelic to not notice it yourself.

Granger wrote:

Of course, some people prefer praise or other stuff but is it helpfull? I mean, does this person help you by saying "Awesome!"?

Sure as hell does to me. :p
You can't tell me that an egocentric person won't benefit from you telling them that they did good, even if that isn't quite the truth. Sure, you'll feed their egocentrism, but that's at least a thousand times more productive than telling them they did something wrong and derailing them completely because of their inability to do exactly what Bird just mentioned above me - resist a defensive impulse and not take it like you're charging them with murder and not giving constructive criticism. Some machines run on Diesel, some run on Gasoline, and you can't possibly put one into the other engine and expect them to run the same.

Granger wrote:

At the very least it can make you look over the bad parts again thinking how to improve it which may spark a entirely new idea how you could approach it.

So, someone else is supposed to replace your own intelligence and ability to conclude what is and isn't a correct move to take? That doesn't sound right at all.
I'll give you credit for the latter part of your sentence, as you hit the bullseye there - the ONLY reason you'd want someone else's opinion on anything is because they may have entirely unique ideas that could help you along the road, but don't mix that with them trying to tweak YOUR existing ideas and try to "correct" them by giving some sort of biased shitty constructive feedback.

Aurani wrote:

Granger wrote:

Like... when a bunch of people tells you that the curve seems a bit too steep, theres a chance it is really too steep even if they are not veterans in idk... something something curves...

So, you're telling me that other people know what is or isn't too steep for you? I call bullshit on that. No one except for you knows what is and isn't hard - WITH the exception of you doing so badly that other people have to facepalm and tell you that you need to tone it down a little bit - but you have to be truly mongrelic to not notice it yourself.

Oh, im not talking about whats me, but rather if the diffculty spread of a mapset as example is apporative, if you have a easy easy, a easy normal, and hard hard and a bullshit insane people are going to comment on it and hopefully tell me their ideas how i can make the spread and curve better. Im certainly not perfect so im asking others what they think so more work is getting done, and the end product improved.

Aurani wrote:

Granger wrote:

Of course, some people prefer praise or other stuff but is it helpfull? I mean, does this person help you by saying "Awesome!"?

Sure as hell does to me. :p
You can't tell me that an egocentric person won't benefit from you telling them that they did good, even if that isn't quite the truth. Sure, you'll feed their egocentrism, but that's at least a thousand times more productive than telling them they did something wrong and derailing them completely because of their inability to do exactly what Bird just mentioned above me - resist a defensive impulse and not take it like you're charging them with murder and not giving constructive criticism. Some machines run on Diesel, some run on Gasoline, and you can't possibly put one into the other engine and expect them to run the same.

Wait a sec. Im asking if its helpfull, to improve your work. Not to feed your ego or anything. Im not talking about how a person handles negative feedback but rather if the feedback is helpfull to their work.
Im going to give honest feedback, prositive if i like it and negative if i dont, excess sugar coating does not help anyone, of course you should be nice when you give feedback, expecially negative one but dont tell someone they did good when they actually didnt. If something is truly this bad that dropping it and starting anew is a good idea im going to say so but this is rarely the case, its almost always possible to improve something, maybe the person needs encouragement, but encouragement by lieing to them is bad, id rather say "You did this pretty badly, but im sure you can do it better."

Aurani wrote:

Granger wrote:

At the very least it can make you look over the bad parts again thinking how to improve it which may spark a entirely new idea how you could approach it.

So, someone else is supposed to replace your own intelligence and ability to conclude what is and isn't a correct move to take? That doesn't sound right at all.
I'll give you credit for the latter part of your sentence, as you hit the bullseye there - the ONLY reason you'd want someone else's opinion on anything is because they may have entirely unique ideas that could help you along the road, but don't mix that with them trying to tweak YOUR existing ideas and try to "correct" them by giving some sort of biased shitty constructive feedback.

Oh who speaks of replacing? I take their feedback and think about it, maybe its really a good idea i just havent seen before or maybe nah, not so much a good idea but the part in question is improvable regardless. Im not going to have them direct what i do, as i said i think about the feedback and from there i conclude what i do next.
This, i think, is how one should handle feedback of any kind.

Also yay arguing. <3 I want to do it more often but theres so littlle people who are actually fun to argue with.

Granger wrote:

Oh, im not talking about whats me, but rather if the diffculty spread of a mapset as example is apporative, if you have a easy easy, a easy normal, and hard hard and a bullshit insane people are going to comment on it and hopefully tell me their ideas how i can make the spread and curve better. Im certainly not perfect so im asking others what they think so more work is getting done, and the end product improved.

Then how do you explain certain users in this community (since we're talking about maps all of a sudden) who didn't give two damns about what others think, and achieved incredible feats from their own doings, not with the help of the others? I, for example, listened to what certain friends said about which maps I should play to train myself and what to avoid - and what happened? I had 500pp. As SOON as I listened to myself and relied on my own healthy judgement, I got up to 2k in less than a month, just by trial and error, and ignoring what others said because what works for the others very well might NOT work for me.
That is what I mentioned above, in my first post. Individuality - you can't KNOW for sure whether or not that person will benefit at all from your feedback, or even affect them negatively, so you can't possibly claim you've helped them if you don't know them very, very well.

Granger wrote:

Wait a sec. Im asking if its helpfull, to improve your work. Not to feed your ego or anything. Im not talking about how a person handles negative feedback but rather if the feedback is helpfull to their work.
Im going to give honest feedback, prositive if i like it and negative if i dont, excess sugar coating does not help anyone, of course you should be nice when you give feedback, expecially negative one but dont tell someone they did good when they actually didnt. If something is truly this bad that dropping it and starting anew is a good idea im going to say so but this is rarely the case, its almost always possible to improve something, maybe the person needs encouragement, but encouragement by lieing to them is bad, id rather say "You did this pretty badly, but im sure you can do it better."

You're missing the entire point here. It is BECAUSE they can't handle that "constructive" feedback, that makes them unable to progress in their work with your help, hence why I said that you're rather crippling them, just like you'd do if you added Gasoline to a Diesel engine. The abovesaid relates to this, basically.

Granger wrote:

Oh who speaks of replacing? I take their feedback and think about it, maybe its really a good idea i just havent seen before or maybe nah, not so much a good idea but the part in question is improvable regardless. Im not going to have them direct what i do, as i said i think about the feedback and from there i conclude what i do next.
This, i think, is how one should handle feedback of any kind.

Also yay arguing. <3 I want to do it more often but theres so littlle people who are actually fun to argue with.

Well the way you conveyed the message sure as hell made it sound like you encouraged replacing someone's ideas just because they might be flawed.

I think you're looking for the word "debate" instead of "arguing". If you like arguing, you're downright a dick (like me), but debating is fine and healthy. :V

It's there

ColdTooth wrote:

Negative feedback doesn't help

it does help

if you're doing something so bad that nothing positive can be said about it then how is anyone supposed to give you feedback if negative feedback doesn't help

Granger wrote:

ColdTooth wrote:

Negative feedback doesn't help

Sorry, i gotta disagree. Negative feedback is very helpfull, provided it is constructive. "Your work sucks lol" is not helpfull but "I dont like how you did this pattern, maybe try to place the circles 10 11 12 closer together?" Is very helpfull.

With that said i greathly prefer constructive negative feedback over praise. "Awesome!" Does neither tell me why its awesome nor tell me how i can maybe make it even more awesome.

I was actually joking, since this is off-topic and all I do here is be stupid like I always am.

Personally, it really depends on the situation. I can be as constructive as I can, and still keep it on a positive subject. Your 2nd negative feedback is not negative, nor positive. This is more of a neutral feedback, where it is neither negative nor positive, therefore it is more leading into a suggesting comment.

Yes, I can tell you that if I only said one word like "Awesome!", it would not be as helpful as I can. For me, I always try to find a small error, overlook the issues, and try to come up with an explanation. I could just say nothing overall, but that wouldn't be helpful. It also wouldn't be negative so I can't really bide the situation half the time. Sometimes people tell me positive stuff, some tell me negative. I take both as constructive.

thelewa wrote:

if you're doing something so bad that nothing positive can be said about it then how is anyone supposed to give you feedback if negative feedback doesn't help

You do make a good point. I can see that I did something so stupid and horrible, then how is there a positive feedback to give? No great thing is suddenly created.

AxE Rayden wrote:

Lets see who here is the rager and who here is the one who deals with it

Ok this thread sucks.
(reads rest of thread)
Oh I need a reason? This thread sucks because it offends me.
lol jk
But then again there's more and more people thinking "it offends me" automatically justifies their argument and invalidates other's.