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thnikk's Osu! Keypads [Development]

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Fibbbb
Got my keypad a day ago and loving the lights.
I'm so glad I upgraded from my laptop keyboard and bought this, feels soooo much better. Thanks so much for making this Thnikk!
Nantakuuu
Where do you get the black container? I'm looking for something similar for one of my school projects. Would appreciate it
Topic Starter
Thnikk

jayiduhn wrote:

Well, my osu! keypad just arrived and it's absolutely amazing. The only problem was finding where to stick it as I am planning to be moving it around often. :/ After long and hard searching, I have finally found a solution! (for me at least)
[iimg] Sticking it on my external harddrive!

It works wonders, fully portable and stable as it has rubber feet! [img]

If anyone else if having portability problems, I hope this solution can help you haha :)
This is a good idea as long as you don't hammer it too hard. Hard drives are mechanical so they are prone to damage through vibrations and such, so be careful.

ZenithPhantasm wrote:

Osu keypad and hentai collection all in one place. You. Are. A. Genius.
Now the aluminum enclosures for SSDs makes sense. Just put your boot SSD in an aluminum enclosure with rubber feet and put your keypad on top :P

CelticDog wrote:

Awesome keypad. I'm using one cherry MX reds, and its been working great. The LEDs with red/blue keycaps looks really nice. It feels extremely durable considering how often I play. I also haven't had any issues with the sticky tape yet, and I move it around quite a bit. This was definitely a worthwhile purchase, thanks!
Thank you for the feedback!

Fibbbb wrote:

Got my keypad a day ago and loving the lights.
I'm so glad I upgraded from my laptop keyboard and bought this, feels soooo much better. Thanks so much for making this Thnikk!
You're welcome, glad you like it!

Nantakuuu wrote:

Where do you get the black container? I'm looking for something similar for one of my school projects. Would appreciate it
Check PMs

Edit: Pro trinket keypad on the backburner as it's been giving me a lot of problems (usb connectivity is super iffy.) I'm going to move all of the code onto the teensy in the mean time and try to find another microcontroller.
Storb
When attempting to compile the code to remap the keys, I'm getting this error message. Correct board (Adafruit Trinket 16MHz) and programmer (USBtinyISP) are selected. Hope there's any advice for this, because otherwise these keypads are absolutely perfect in every way.
DiSSneyVACation

Thnikk wrote:

Plug and play for all of the operating systems I've tested, which has been Win 7, 8.1, OS X Mavericks, and Ubuntu 14.04. I think it's recognized as a generic keyboard so it should work on almost everything without having to install any drivers.

Unless you want to reprogram it, then the drivers are available from adafruit along with all the necessary software.

What should I do, in the rare case that it doesn't work plug and play with ALL OS? For me it works fine with windows 8.1 , but on windows 7 it's only recognized that there is something in the USB port and that's it.
Topic Starter
Thnikk

Storb wrote:

When attempting to compile the code to remap the keys, I'm getting this error message. Correct board (Adafruit Trinket 16MHz) and programmer (USBtinyISP) are selected. Hope there's any advice for this, because otherwise these keypads are absolutely perfect in every way.
Edit: I've updated the page on my website. Adafruit updated their code to work on version 1.6.3 of the Arduino IDE (it was running on 1.0.5) and an issue with not being able to detect libraries properly seems to have been fixed. Please delete your current arduino folder and redownload the IDE in step 6 and follow the newly edied steps afterward.

ZarTaen wrote:

What should I do, in the rare case that it doesn't work plug and play with ALL OS? For me it works fine with windows 8.1 , but on windows 7 it's only recognized that there is something in the USB port and that's it.
The only thing it should be is the port or the cable you're using. I've had bad mini usb cables that'll tell me usb device not recognized, and a bad port would probably say the same thing. Otherwise it might be a compatibility issue with the USB controller on your motherboard, so if you can try other rear ports or a usb 3.0 port that might help.
DiSSneyVACation

Thnikk wrote:

The only thing it should be is the port or the cable you're using. I've had bad mini usb cables that'll tell me usb device not recognized, and a bad port would probably say the same thing. Otherwise it might be a compatibility issue with the USB controller on your motherboard, so if you can try other rear ports or a usb 3.0 port that might help.
Well, now there is the funny thing that makes it weird: it worked the first time i plugged it in, after then it never worked again on my pc. I also tried all 6 ports (that pc only has 2.0), so I think it's a motherboard compatibility issue, since it is powered, but not recognized (I get the error code 43: device malfunctions and therefore is stopped.). Everything works just fine on my windows 8.1 laptop, so i don''t think it's the cable.

Anyway, thanks for your reply :D

Edit: Anyone with a similar problem, consider disconnecting your PC from any power sources for a while and then connecting again with the trinket plugged out..
3rd Edit: I found a real solution: One should simply look for the USB host controller in the device manager, for me it is a chipset from intel. "Update" the drivers-> browse my computer -> let me pick from a list of device drivers .... -> there I had 2 choices: the standard Enhanced PCI to USB Host Controller or that intel chipset thingy. I have chosen the standard Enhanced PCI one and it works.
4th Edit: I shouldn't have unplugged it..

5th Edit: I finally did it.. THIS IS THE SOLUTION: Step 1: Unplug your PC from any power sources. Step 2: Have the keypad unplugged, and boot up the PC Step 3: plug the keypad in when windows has booted. Step 4: uninstall the keypad in the device manager. Step 5: If you have 2 USB host controllers, plug the mouse in a port that isn't on the same controller of the keypad. Then proceed to uninstall the USB Host controller of the keypad. Do not do that with the controller of your mouse, or you can't use it for obvious reasons. Step 6: After uninstalling the USB host controller, check for new hardware, it will be installed again. Step 7: The keypad should be recognized as a USB Input Device now.

Sorry for that huge post, hopefully I can help someone with this.
-Mo-
Hey, just posting in to say I've recieved my keypad and it's working great :)


Unfortunately, UK's Royal Mail shot me with a hefty customs charge, but other than that, I'm pretty happy with it so far.
Sneaky
Are you planning on the browns coming back in stock any time soon? Thanks! :)
Topic Starter
Thnikk

ZarTaen wrote:

Well, now there is the funny thing that makes it weird: it worked the first time i plugged it in, after then it never worked again on my pc. I also tried all 6 ports (that pc only has 2.0), so I think it's a motherboard compatibility issue, since it is powered, but not recognized (I get the error code 43: device malfunctions and therefore is stopped.). Everything works just fine on my windows 8.1 laptop, so i don''t think it's the cable.

Anyway, thanks for your reply :D

Edit: Anyone with a similar problem, consider disconnecting your PC from any power sources for a while and then connecting again with the trinket plugged out..
3rd Edit: I found a real solution: One should simply look for the USB host controller in the device manager, for me it is a chipset from intel. "Update" the drivers-> browse my computer -> let me pick from a list of device drivers .... -> there I had 2 choices: the standard Enhanced PCI to USB Host Controller or that intel chipset thingy. I have chosen the standard Enhanced PCI one and it works.
4th Edit: I shouldn't have unplugged it..

5th Edit: I finally did it.. THIS IS THE SOLUTION: Step 1: Unplug your PC from any power sources. Step 2: Have the keypad unplugged, and boot up the PC Step 3: plug the keypad in when windows has booted. Step 4: uninstall the keypad in the device manager. Step 5: If you have 2 USB host controllers, plug the mouse in a port that isn't on the same controller of the keypad. Then proceed to uninstall the USB Host controller of the keypad. Do not do that with the controller of your mouse, or you can't use it for obvious reasons. Step 6: After uninstalling the USB host controller, check for new hardware, it will be installed again. Step 7: The keypad should be recognized as a USB Input Device now.

Sorry for that huge post, hopefully I can help someone with this.
Thank you for posting your solution! I hope this doesn't happen to anyone else, but someone running into a weird usb controller issue was probably inevitable.

-Mo- wrote:

Hey, just posting in to say I've recieved my keypad and it's working great :)


Unfortunately, UK's Royal Mail shot me with a hefty customs charge, but other than that, I'm pretty happy with it so far.
I've heard of undervaluing packages to avoid customs charges, maybe this is something I'll offer. I figured it wouldn't be an issue with something valued at $25, but I'm not too familiar with how customs works in other countries since we don't ever get charged customs fees here in the US (as far as I know.)

Anyway, glad to know you got it and like it! :)

SneakyLeif1020 wrote:

Are you planning on the browns coming back in stock any time soon? Thanks! :)
I'll try to put more effort into finding them within the next few days. My usual places for keyswitches would be the best since I could save on shipping and I'd like for the cost to stay roughly the same as it is for other switches since I don't charge different amounts for them (nor do I want to with Etsy's awful option pricing setup, still no add-on prices for some reason.) As it's been so far in my search, they've been sold out everywhere but I'll try to comb through the internet this week for them.
Sneaky

Thnikk wrote:

I'll try to put more effort into finding them within the next few days. My usual places for keyswitches would be the best since I could save on shipping and I'd like for the cost to stay roughly the same as it is for other switches since I don't charge different amounts for them (nor do I want to with Etsy's awful option pricing setup, still no add-on prices for some reason.) As it's been so far in my search, they've been sold out everywhere but I'll try to comb through the internet this week for them.
Thanks. I appreciate that you're putting this much effort into this, as well. I'm already planning on buying a keypad the second brown switches are back in stock, as I've been checking every day for a week or two. I'll keep checking back regularly if you are planning on getting them in sometime soon. It looks like you've done a great job so far on everything, so I can't wait to get one for myself! ;) Thanks again.
Topic Starter
Thnikk

Teensy LC EXISTS AND I'M REALLY EXCITED ABOUT IT

I've been looking for any decently priced mc similar to the teensy 2.0 and I think I finally found it. I just ordered one and hope it comes quick so I can start testing it. I already have all of the code moved over to my teensy so I shouldn't have to change much except for changing the pins for stuff.

If these do work out and I introduce a new model, the pricing of the normal models might be increased a bit, or the product will be completely removed. It might sound counter intuitive since prices usually decrease for things when a newer model comes out, but this is still just something I do for fun in my free time and it's hard to justify the extra work I put in while making the same if not less profit I do from my other models. This new one should actually require a little less work on my end, so I'm not expecting it to cost too much more, but I think something like $2 more for the current "osu! Keypad" and another $2-5 (to compensate for the increased cost of the controller) for the "Premium" model would be fair. I don't plan on changing prices for the basic or basic+ models nor the keycaps.

SneakyLeif1020 wrote:

Thanks. I appreciate that you're putting this much effort into this, as well. I'm already planning von buying a keypad the second brown switches are back in stock, as I've been checking every day for a week or two. I'll keep checking back regularly if you are planning on getting them in sometime soon. It looks like you've done a great job so far on everything, so I can't wait to get one for myself! ;) Thanks again.
I have searched high and low and haven't been able to find them anywhere. I regret not picking up Gateron browns just to have something (even though they'd probably be better anyway :P)

I'm asking around to see if anyone knows what's up since it seems like some sort of manufacturer shortage. I don't think they're in high enough demand to be sold out everywhere.
Cool4strenz
Does anyone know if this keypad works on mac, I don't really need any other functionality from it apart from just Z and X. Also, If I get one, how long does it usually take to ship?
Khyo

Cool4strenz wrote:

Also, If I get one, how long does it usually take to ship?
It comes from Northern California and I live in Southern California, it was shipped on Monday and it arrived on Friday for me.
Topic Starter
Thnikk
osu! Keypad v2 is up!
I'm very proud of this release as I've been working on it for the past few months.


Here's a video of a prototype model from a few days ago, though I do plan on making a new video showing off the pressing and holding of the escape button with the actual new model.

Yes, both the layout and my play in this video are terrible.

New features include a new, slightly better black side button (mainly a test run, I may use these on the basic and basic+ too,) 5 LED modes that you can switch between by holding down the escape button, and a new microcontroller with the potential of a 1000 Hz polling rate (500 right now.)

On the topic of polling rate, this can actually work at 1000 Hz but the keys can't be pressed without sometimes registering as a double press. I'm using the bounce library to keep this from being an issue, but the keys are actually registered as being pressed once every 2 ms. This is something I'm working on but I can't guarantee it ever running at 1000hz. As far as osu is concerned, it actually handles the button presses fine so if you'd like a 1ms model you can just ask me.

Cool4strenz wrote:

Does anyone know if this keypad works on mac, I don't really need any other functionality from it apart from just Z and X. Also, If I get one, how long does it usually take to ship?
It works fine on mac and should be recognized as a USB keyboard. Domestic shipping should take 3-6 days and international should take 5-10 days from ship date, not order date. These are made to order so there's a 1-3 day "handling" time.

My cut-off for orders made the same day is 12 PM PST from 12 PM the day before. With more orders coming in, I'm not sure if I can keep up with this, but if you were to order early after the cut-off it should definitely make it into the next day's batch, meaning a 1 PM order on Tuesday will be made on Wednesday and shipped on Thursday.
FieryLight

Thnikk wrote:

On the topic of polling rate, this can actually work at 1000 Hz but the keys can't be pressed without sometimes registering as a double press. I'm using the bounce library to keep this from being an issue, but the keys are actually registered as being pressed once every 2 ms. This is something I'm working on but I can't guarantee it ever running at 1000hz. As far as osu is concerned, it actually handles the button presses fine so if you'd like a 1ms model you can just ask me.
Well, it's not like anyone could double tap in 1ms nor would anyone want to. The 1000hz polling is just good so that when we hit the key, it registers and the information is sent without waiting until the end of the next 8ms interval. So having a short (5ms?) software debounce time shouldn't intervene whatsoever and I doubt anyone would've realized it if not for you saying so. And I don't think osu would handle the double pressing as nicely if the game ran at over 1000fps (although, I don't think many people do =P)
Cool4strenz
Oh wow, v2 got released so soon? Guess I'll have to cancel my order and try that one out instead, loving the LED options.
Topic Starter
Thnikk

FieryLight wrote:

Thnikk wrote:

On the topic of polling rate, this can actually work at 1000 Hz but the keys can't be pressed without sometimes registering as a double press. I'm using the bounce library to keep this from being an issue, but the keys are actually registered as being pressed once every 2 ms. This is something I'm working on but I can't guarantee it ever running at 1000hz. As far as osu is concerned, it actually handles the button presses fine so if you'd like a 1ms model you can just ask me.
Well, it's not like anyone could double tap in 1ms nor would anyone want to. The 1000hz polling is just good so that when we hit the key, it registers and the information is sent without waiting until the end of the next 8ms interval. So having a short (5ms?) software debounce time shouldn't intervene whatsoever and I doubt anyone would've realized it if not for you saying so. And I don't think osu would handle the double pressing as nicely if the game ran at over 1000fps (although, I don't think many people do =P)
You're right, I misinterpereted the info on the teensy site. It is actually running at 1000hz. Thanks for clearing things up again :oops:

Cool4strenz wrote:

Oh wow, v2 got released so soon? Guess I'll have to cancel my order and try that one out instead, loving the LED options.
Yeah sorry, I'm pretty fast when it comes to these things. As you could tell in my post about the teensy lc, I was really excited. I've had the code ready for a few weeks so a more affordable microcontroller was all I was looking for.
Cool4strenz
Yep, just sent a message on Etsy requesting to cancel the v1 order :P, going to get the v2.
IH_

Thnikk wrote:

osu! Keypad v2 is up!
I'm very proud of this release as I've been working on it for the past few months.


Here's a video of a prototype model from a few days ago, though I do plan on making a new video showing off the pressing and holding of the escape button with the actual new model.

Yes, both the layout and my play in this video are terrible.

New features include a new, slightly better black side button (mainly a test run, I may use these on the basic and basic+ too,) 5 LED modes that you can switch between by holding down the escape button, and a new microcontroller with the potential of a 1000 Hz polling rate (500 right now.)

On the topic of polling rate, this can actually work at 1000 Hz but the keys can't be pressed without sometimes registering as a double press. I'm using the bounce library to keep this from being an issue, but the keys are actually registered as being pressed once every 2 ms. This is something I'm working on but I can't guarantee it ever running at 1000hz. As far as osu is concerned, it actually handles the button presses fine so if you'd like a 1ms model you can just ask me.

Cool4strenz wrote:

Does anyone know if this keypad works on mac, I don't really need any other functionality from it apart from just Z and X. Also, If I get one, how long does it usually take to ship?
It works fine on mac and should be recognized as a USB keyboard. Domestic shipping should take 3-6 days and international should take 5-10 days from ship date, not order date. These are made to order so there's a 1-3 day "handling" time.

My cut-off for orders made the same day is 12 PM PST from 12 PM the day before. With more orders coming in, I'm not sure if I can keep up with this, but if you were to order early after the cut-off it should definitely make it into the next day's batch, meaning a 1 PM order on Tuesday will be made on Wednesday and shipped on Thursday.
Wow, good news.
I hope the basic+ that I bought 20 days ago arrives soon :(

Who knows if I end selling it and buying the v2. Is there a not so expensive but faster international shipping option?

Cheers.
Topic Starter
Thnikk

inohdtx wrote:

Wow, good news.
I hope the basic+ that I bought 20 days ago arrives soon :(

Who knows if I end selling it and buying the v2. Is there a not so expensive but faster international shipping option?

Cheers.
Me too, 20 days is ridiculous, even for first class. Most first class international packages take less that 2 weeks, so I'll give it one more week before I contact USPS (though that probably won't get me anywhere and I'll just end up making you another one.)

Priority mail via flat rate box is ~$15 and is supposed to take 6-10 days. I should be able to add it as an option if anyone is interested and thinks that's reasonable.
Mafuuu
My keypad just arrived today and you just released v2?! Is this what Iphone users feel like when the S comes out right after they buy the normal one? Well no helping it, good job with these. I'm loving mine so far c:
Wingler
I recently got my Holyoops in the mail and let me say they look pretty good on this keypad
Pic

sorry about that potato quality

The new teensy is making me really considering getting another one if it does end up working out.
And if you decide to get on massdrop again then maybe another gateron option? :D
Rot
I saw the Price and was Like "Uhh Nice a Keypad for 20€ Thats Sick! Then i Cheaked Shipping... 10€ more... Done
Topic Starter
Thnikk

Mafuuu wrote:

My keypad just arrived today and you just released v2?! Is this what Iphone users feel like when the S comes out right after they buy the normal one? Well no helping it, good job with these. I'm loving mine so far c:
Sorry, I'm pretty fast with this stuff. I've been sitting on the code for months so I had to jump when i finally found the Teensy LC :p

Glad you like it!

Wingler wrote:

I recently got my Holyoops in the mail and let me say they look pretty good on this keypad
Pic

sorry about that potato quality

The new teensy is making me really considering getting another one if it does end up working out.
And if you decide to get on massdrop again then maybe another gateron option? :D
Looks great!

Dang, I just voted for it to come back at 160 requests a few days ago and it's already back up. Any switches you had in mind? I think brown replacements would be a good idea since so many people want browns as well as reds/blacks since they go so quick. I really do prefer them over cherry switches, I just wish people were less apprehensive.

Rot wrote:

I saw the Price and was Like "Uhh Nice a Keypad for 20€ Thats Sick! Then i Cheaked Shipping... 10€ more... Done
International shipping is expensive.
IH_

Thnikk wrote:

inohdtx wrote:

Wow, good news.
I hope the basic+ that I bought 20 days ago arrives soon :(

Who knows if I end selling it and buying the v2. Is there a not so expensive but faster international shipping option?

Cheers.
Me too, 20 days is ridiculous, even for first class. Most first class international packages take less that 2 weeks, so I'll give it one more week before I contact USPS (though that probably won't get me anywhere and I'll just end up making you another one.)

Priority mail via flat rate box is ~$15 and is supposed to take 6-10 days. I should be able to add it as an option if anyone is interested and thinks that's reasonable.

26 days and still nothing.
The last tracking update was on April 11th and the package was still in the USA (in another usps facility though). Can't believe this is so slow :(
Topic Starter
Thnikk

inohdtx wrote:

26 days and still nothing.
The last tracking update was on April 11th and the package was still in the USA (in another usps facility though). Can't believe this is so slow :(
I'll send another one out tomorrow morning. Of course I included the extra keycap last time (I will this time too!) :(

I'm really sorry it's been so slow, I should have acted sooner and just done this a week ago. Should be no problems this time and you should get an email from Etsy with an updated tracking number.
IH_

Thnikk wrote:

inohdtx wrote:

26 days and still nothing.
The last tracking update was on April 11th and the package was still in the USA (in another usps facility though). Can't believe this is so slow :(
I'll send another one out tomorrow morning. Of course I included the extra keycap last time (I will this time too!) :(

I'm really sorry it's been so slow, I should have acted sooner and just done this a week ago. Should be no problems this time and you should get an email from Etsy with an updated tracking number.
Don't worry, it's okay. I really appreciate the fact that you'll send another for me, thank you ! :)
I hope this time don't take so much to arrive.
Sneaky
I received my keypad today and made a demonstration video with it. :) Enjoy.

Cool4strenz
I'm currently running Mac OSX Mavericks,

And sometimes when I press the key, the key double taps (using v2) super quickly, like a macro inputting 2 "z" clicks.

For example (adding commas between each click):

zz,z,z,z,zz,zz,zz,zz,z,z,zz,z,zz,z,z,z,z,z,z,zz,z,z,z,z
x,x,x,xx,x,x,x,x,x,x,x,x,x,x,x,x,x,x,x,x,x,x,x,x,x,x,x,x,x,x,

I have yet to see any impact in-game, however that occurs when im just tapping it on like a text document.

Any explanations?
Topic Starter
Thnikk

SneakyLeif1020 wrote:

I received my keypad today and made a demonstration video with it. :) Enjoy.
You are super cool 8-)

Cool4strenz wrote:

I'm currently running Mac OSX Mavericks,

And sometimes when I press the key, the key double taps (using v2) super quickly, like a macro inputting 2 "z" clicks.

For example (adding commas between each click):

zz,z,z,z,zz,zz,zz,zz,z,z,zz,z,zz,z,z,z,z,z,z,zz,z,z,z,z
x,x,x,xx,x,x,x,x,x,x,x,x,x,x,x,x,x,x,x,x,x,x,x,x,x,x,x,x,x,x,

I have yet to see any impact in-game, however that occurs when im just tapping it on like a text document.

Any explanations?
This is probably just the debounce settings. It should never cause any issues in game but I'll pm you with a fix .I'd like to have a remapping guide available for everyone including mac and linux users within the next week or two.
Wingler

Thnikk wrote:

Any switches you had in mind?
Browns would probably be the more popular option out there, but if you did have more to spare it would be a good idea to get a tactile and linear to make it safe.
Maybe red and brown then?
Although those yellow ones look really good but nobody would actually want one :cry:
Topic Starter
Thnikk

Wingler wrote:

Thnikk wrote:

Any switches you had in mind?
Browns would probably be the more popular option out there, but if you did have more to spare it would be a good idea to get a tactile and linear to make it safe.
Maybe red and brown then?
Although those yellow ones look really good but nobody would actually want one :cry:
Ok, good thing we agree since I already bought them :P

I went with browns, reds, and blacks. My reasoning is that this covers a decent variety (though I now have 3 linear Gaterons...) and the "smoothness" will have the biggest impact on these. Since so many people want browns, I have them covered now. Reds are my most popular switch by far, so having an alternate option is good and should make me restock less often. I never have enough blacks so having an alternative there is good too, and I think they'll be good as a "professional" choice. Yellows seemed interesting, but I figured I had enough linear switches at this point.

I'm also thinking about trying something out and leveraging the semi-transparency... maybe. We'll see.

edit: updated op so it's a little prettier and added sneakyleif's video
Shimzi
Awesome
Pituophis
just bought the v2 with Gateron Clear switches since I finally broke one of my laptop's keys. :)
Shimzi
Thinking about buying one
Mahogany
You mean you're thnikking about buying one. Kappa
Shimzi

Mahoganytooth wrote:

You mean you're thnikking about buying one. Kappa
Heh
Topic Starter
Thnikk
So I'm getting 330 gateron switches to go along with my remaining ~80 clears. What could I possibly do with them besides offer them as a switch option for existing keypads?



I wanted to try out rgb backlighting since rgb leds are dirt cheap relative to all of the other parts I've bought for testing, and I just wanted more code to work on. These definitely won't be out any time soon, and I realize that only means "at least a week" for me, but I really do think it'll take a while.
Wingler

Thnikk wrote:

So I'm getting 330 gateron switches to go along with my remaining ~80 clears. What could I possibly do with them besides offer them as a switch option for existing keypads?



I wanted to try out rgb backlighting since rgb leds are dirt cheap relative to all of the other parts I've bought for testing, and I just wanted more code to work on. These definitely won't be out any time soon, and I realize that only means "at least a week" for me, but I really do think it'll take a while.
I think the world needs more gateron awareness, since they're worth so much more than just RGB backlighting.
But hey, you could make a keypad v2+ that has all sorts of dumb RGB effects and create the end-all of keypads in general
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