FieryLight wrote:

I don't think 4 pairs of different key switches is a very good idea.... If you want to try a switch, try a local electronic's shop. I think 8 keys of the same switch would be much more appealing to osu mania, taiko and std players (3 spare sets!).

I agree, my 4 key was really just a proof of concept for myself that I could get more than one button working on a pin and have them all be recognized individually. 8 key is my next project

I need longer project boxes though...

NOTE: i just recieved the keypad today.

I received the keypad today and upon first impression, im going to be honest. I thought it was bad. It took a while for it to start working once i plugged it in( like literally 5 minutes) i tried from the front usb ports, the back etc. I got it connected in the front usb ports located under my disk drive and it began to work fine.

Ok so, Now its all plugged in and ready to go, i set z+x to my default keys and began playing some osu! I was beginning to get worried because... i couldnt stream for anything on them, they felt hard to press (ironically) and just uncomfortable, i felt like i could single tap and stream 2x faster with my rubber dome.
I decided to remove the o-rings because i thought they were the reasons for the problems i was having and indeed they were. It began to feel much more comfortable to actually press the keys and play with them. They do indeed make much more noise now (the o ring greatly limited the noise it made) but i believe its better then not being able to play properly with them.

I have not completely gotten used to them but once i have and when im left alone in my home (Mother would get pissed at the wonderful noise of the clicking and clacking :p) i will fully test just how better or worst this keypad makes me. Ill be uploading a comparison video between my rubberdome and this Cherry MX (RED) keypad soon.

Also the tape at the bottom of the keypad peeled the paint off of my desk LOL, it still sticks but not as much. This isnt a problem for me because the way i position the keypad to play makes it so that it doesnt move but im not sure how it will affect other players.

Edit: Also the cable it came with was too short for me but good thing i had a longer cable that worked with it.


Another Edit: After 2 hours of usage, holy ball it feels great. 2fast4me

KevEz wrote:

:!: NOTE: i just recieved the keypad today.

I received the keypad today and upon first impression, im going to be honest. I thought it was bad. It took a while for it to start working once i plugged it in( like literally 5 minutes) i tried from the front usb ports, the back etc. I got it connected in the front usb ports located under my disk drive and it began to work fine.

Ok so, Now its all plugged in and ready to go, i set z+x to my default keys and began playing some osu! I was beginning to get worried because... i couldnt stream for anything on them, they felt hard to press (ironically) and just uncomfortable, i felt like i could single tap and stream 2x faster with my rubber dome.
I decided to remove the o-rings because i thought they were the reasons for the problems i was having and indeed they were. It began to feel much more comfortable to actually press the keys and play with them. They do indeed make much more noise now (the o ring greatly limited the noise it made) but i believe its better then not being able to play properly with them.

I have not completely gotten used to them but once i have and when im left alone in my home (Mother would get pissed at the wonderful noise of the clicking and clacking :p) i will fully test just how better or worst this keypad makes me. Ill be uploading a comparison video between my rubberdome and this Cherry MX (RED) keypad soon.

Also the tape at the bottom of the keypad peeled the paint off of my desk LOL, it still sticks but not as much. This isnt a problem for me because the way i position the keypad to play makes it so that it doesnt move but im not sure how it will affect other players.

Edit: Also the cable it came with was too short for me but good thing i had a longer cable that worked with it.
[image]

Another Edit: After 2 hours of usage, holy ball it feels great. 2fast4me

Did you wait 8 seconds after plugging it in? I haven't heard of anyone having problems getting it to work so maybe it's just your usb port but I'll try to test it out on more computers.

The o-rings are meant to reduce travel distance and make you wait less time between key presses since you don't have to push it down extra and have it come up more. Since you said you didn't like them I'll include them in a bag and people can put them on if they would like.

I'm sorry about the tape lol. I've been trying to find another good solution, but I don't think any sort of rubber feet would really cut it unless these were a lot heavier. I always stick the tape to my shirt before I stick it to the table to keep it from sticking too much, which is apparently important advice I should include

I'll see if I can pick up 5 feet cables with the next batch. Thanks a lot for all of the honest feedback, I really appreciate it!

Edit: Added a "basic" model to Etsy for $22!



[link]

Feel free to paste this to the original post if you want or dont.

Nice :O

Interresting, Kev, do you think this massively better score is because you used the keypad or more coindence (Since Skill can flucate from day to day)?

Granger wrote:

Interresting, Kev, do you think this massively better score is because you used the keypad or more coindence (Since Skill can flucate from day to day)?

hmm good question, well considering this was my first FC on this song with the keypad id have to say it was more so cause of the keypad.

Is the polling rate really an issue? I'm kinda hesitating to take one just for that, considering you might upgrade it <.<

od10 = 18 ms margin of error
125hz = 8ms max input lag

KevEz wrote:

or dont

This made me laugh. Thanks for the video

Granger wrote:

Interresting, Kev, do you think this massively better score is because you used the keypad or more coindence (Since Skill can flucate from day to day)?

Honestly, I'm content as long as it didn't make him worse. I just wanted people to have something tiny and customizable to play osu on. If you can play better with it too, that's awesome!

SupraKyun wrote:

Is the polling rate really an issue? I'm kinda hesitating to take one just for that, considering you might upgrade it <.<

I'm going to update the OP at some point since that does seem ambiguous, but that post was really just part of a conversation from the previous thread. I've thought about it and upgrading the trinket to a teensy doesn't seem worth it. I've gotten enough price complaints as it is, so adding $10 to the price does not seem viable at all.

And that was the main reason I wanted Kev's video. Hopefully this dispels the fear that it's as big of an issue as I made it seem originally. I just wanted people to know it was a potential issue at the time so nobody that bought one was upset that I didn't say anything about it. I'm not trying to say that the difference between 8 and 1ms is negligible, but I don't think the vast majority of people would notice.

[ Momiji ] wrote:

od10 = 18 ms margin of error
125hz = 8ms max input lag

This gives me more of peace of mind. Thanks for the numbers.

I no longer had any "complaints" about the keypad. Theirs no delay, the USB issue I was having was coming from my end so that's not a problem, only took me like an hour of usage to get comfortable (I ended up keeping the o-rings on, loved the noise reduction), its small so its ideal to carry around when I visit other friends who play OSU, the cable it came with was short for me but only cause my desktop is a bit farther then my play area.
Only the tape is the issue in my opinion, the keypad is very light so it needs something to keep it from moving so much for "intense streamers" other then that it works like a charm.
Works and functions properly with no delay as expected
9/10 would fap again -IGN

Side note: I got my friend to come over and try it out, he's much lower ranked but he said it felt comfortable and smooth to use.

[ Momiji ] wrote:

od10 = 18 ms margin of error
125hz = 8ms max input lag

may I am just brain dead, but why 125hz = 8ms input lag?

the 125hz doesn't tell me anything about input delays, it rather tells me how often the computer is checking the USB data. Which is basically 125 times per second.

I would like to see someone who is going to stream 125 beats per second. The value is kinda useless when it comes to keyboards (in my opinion).

Deimos wrote:

[ Momiji ] wrote:

od10 = 18 ms margin of error
125hz = 8ms max input lag

may I am just brain dead, but why 125hz = 8ms input lag?

the 125hz doesn't tell me anything about input delays, it rather tells me how often the computer is checking the USB data. Which is basically 125 times per second.

I would like to see someone who is going to stream 125 beats per second. The value is kinda useless when it comes to keyboards (in my opinion).

1000ms / 125hz = 8ms

Deimos wrote:

how often the computer is checking the USB data

once every 8 ms
hence the delay is variable.
your keystroke can be registered after 0 - 8ms.
this basically means that if you changed the polling rate to 500hz, you would do as well on od9 as you would on od10 before. (0 - 2 ms input lag)
delay variability is also dependant on fps

Input lag in ms= 1/fpsx1000+1000/pollingrate+displaylag(CRTs have no display lag whatsoever)+framebuffer

ZenithPhantasm wrote:

Input lag in ms= 1/fpsx1000+1000/pollingrate+displaylag(CRTs have no display lag whatsoever)+framebuffer

Well, seems right.
Also, I was only pointing out the effect of input lag variability on accuracy, but truth is that input lag also fiddles with hand synchronization.
example:
rrtyui
gangsta
cursor on slider, sliderbreak

[ Momiji ] wrote:

ZenithPhantasm wrote:

Input lag in ms= 1/fpsx1000+1000/pollingrate+displaylag(CRTs have no display lag whatsoever)+framebuffer

Well, seems right.
Also, I was only pointing out the effect of input lag variability on accuracy, but truth is that input lag also fiddles with hand synchronization.
example:
rrtyui
gangsta
cursor on slider, sliderbreak

Its particularly dangerous for mouse players because mouse feels like crap unless you set polling rate to 500hz+.
Input lag of default/office mice (125hz): 8ms
Input lag of gaming mice (500-1000hz): 1-2 ms
Input lag of most keyboards (125hz): 8ms
Input lag of Wacom tablets (133hz): 7.52ms
Input lag of Huion tablets (200hz): 5ms

Assuming a player using a Wacom and a 125hz keyboard, he/she only has to deal with a 0.48ms difference which is unnoticeable.

However, a mouse player using a high end mouse and a 125hz keyboard has to deal with a 7ms difference which is massive and certainly noticeable for most people (yes you can still work around it but it wouldn't be the same).

So the delay thing isn't really an issue, at least at my level XD. Do you think you are going to upgrade it anytime soon on anything?

ZenithPhantasm wrote:

Its particularly dangerous for mouse players because mouse feels like crap unless you set polling rate to 500hz+.
Input lag of default/office mice (125hz): 8ms
Input lag of gaming mice (500-1000hz): 1-2 ms
Input lag of most keyboards (125hz): 8ms
Input lag of Wacom tablets (133hz): 7.52ms
Input lag of Huion tablets (200hz): 5ms

Assuming a player using a Wacom and a 125hz keyboard, he/she only has to deal with a 0.48ms difference which is unnoticeable.

However, a mouse player using a high end mouse and a 125hz keyboard has to deal with a 7ms difference which is massive and certainly noticeable for most people (yes you can still work around it but it wouldn't be the same).

I had no idea it was so low on wacom tablets. Again, thank you guys for providing such insightful information for me any everyone else in the thread.

SupraKyun wrote:

So the delay thing isn't really an issue, at least at my level XD. Do you think you are going to upgrade it anytime soon on anything?

Probably not, aside from some additional keycap options. I'm settled on all of the parts for the time being. If anything, there might be a higher price teensy model for 1000hz that will be made in small quantity, but it will be identical in every other way and it wouldn't happen for at least a few weeks.

Oh okay, thank you!

Edit: I bought one! Tell me if you need some review once i receive it! I kinda live in France so i wonder how long it will take o- O

What skin did you use during the demonstration video?

SupraKyun wrote:

Oh okay, thank you!

Edit: I bought one! Tell me if you need some review once i receive it! I kinda live in France so i wonder how long it will take o- O

Average time for first class mail is 1-3 weeks, but it averages at a little over a week in my experience. If you'd like to leave some feedback/a review here in the thread, that would be wonderful!

UberBagel wrote:

What skin did you use during the demonstration video?

I think you mean Kev's demo video which is available for download on his profile here.

Sure, i will leave some feedback once i receive it . Cloudy Keycaps with Cherry MX Red *q*.
Just wondering if the tape gonna do anything to my desktop, can the tape be sticked on wood things or maybe i stick it to my old mousepad?

SupraKyun wrote:

Sure, i will leave some feedback once i receive it . Cloudy Keycaps with Cherry MX Red *q*.
Just wondering if the tape gonna do anything to my desktop, can the tape be sticked on wood things or maybe i stick it to my old mousepad?

Mouse pad because mouse pads also don't slide as much so it will prevent the keypad from moving so much too.

KevEz wrote:

SupraKyun wrote:

Sure, i will leave some feedback once i receive it . Cloudy Keycaps with Cherry MX Red *q*.
Just wondering if the tape gonna do anything to my desktop, can the tape be sticked on wood things or maybe i stick it to my old mousepad?

Mouse pad because mouse pads also don't slide as much so it will prevent the keypad from moving so much too.

I see, well i hope it will stick fine on da mousepad and the tape better last for a while XD. Now, just waiting for the keypad to come!
I hope there is no disadvantage if i use the keypad with the right hand? Because i'm left handed so i'm using the tablet with my lefthand and keyboard with my right hand.
KevEz, are you only playing with the keypad now?

OP updated after an eternity.

SupraKyun wrote:

KevEz wrote:

Mouse pad because mouse pads also don't slide as much so it will prevent the keypad from moving so much too.

I see, well i hope it will stick fine on da mousepad and the tape better last for a while XD. Now, just waiting for the keypad to come!
I hope there is no disadvantage if i use the keypad with the right hand? Because i'm left handed so i'm using the tablet with my lefthand and keyboard with my right hand.
KevEz, are you only playing with the keypad now?

There shouldn't be. The escape key was placed to be pushed by the side of your ring finger (which does sound pretty awkward,) but can also be used with your thumb.

If you stick it to a cloth mousepad, ignore the PS on the note in the box

As of now.. Yes I'm only using the keypad. The keypad works fine, its just up to you to improve and get better at the game overall.

ZenithPhantasm wrote:

I heard this could solve all those tape problems

I've tried rubber feet initially and they didn't work particularly well, mainly because they keypads aren't heavy enough. The cable has more influence on it than anything else, and while playing you just sort of nudge it around. These do look a little bit more rubbery than my last ones though, so I'll give it a shot.

I also have 7 radio shacks within a 10 mile radius of me and they're $2. How could I go wrong?

KevEz can I have the replay files from your thnikk keypad and rubberdome comparison?
Also please link me the map.

ZenithPhantasm wrote:

KevEz can I have the replay files from your thnikk keypad and rubberdome comparison?
Also please link me the map.

Map: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/24634
Keypad replay: http://puu.sh/etI9f/ac6bd34e28.osr
RubberDome Replay: http://puu.sh/etIpb/f606a4d0d2.osr

Anyway, i'm excited to try it with all the lightning and stuff Q.Q xD.
I saw you sent it earlier today . Now just have to wait for it

Thnikk wrote:

ZenithPhantasm wrote:

I heard this could solve all those tape problems

I've tried rubber feet initially and they didn't work particularly well, mainly because they keypads aren't heavy enough. The cable has more influence on it than anything else, and while playing you just sort of nudge it around. These do look a little bit more rubbery than my last ones though, so I'll give it a shot.

I also have 7 radio shacks within a 10 mile radius of me and they're $2. How could I go wrong?

If all else fails:
+

IT MIGHT NOT BE PRETTY BUT IT WILL WORK!

I exactly have something like your picture on the right!

I was playing around a bit today:


Unfortunately, I couldn't get pin 4 working with the LED so I had to use pins 1 and 2 for the LEDs and have the buttons share pin 3. Not ideal and I'd still like to try to get pin 4 working, but it doesn't seem to play too well with the keyboard library.

SupraKyun wrote:

Anyway, i'm excited to try it with all the lightning and stuff Q.Q xD.
I saw you sent it earlier today . Now just have to wait for it

ZenithPhantasm wrote:

I'm happy you're excited for it

If all else fails:
GLUE + WOOD

IT MIGHT NOT BE PRETTY BUT IT WILL WORK!

I'd be lying if I said I hadn't thought of that. Just replace the wood with a plastic mouse pad and the glue with tape and add a wrist rest underneath.

For gripping the table without using tape, I would suggest trying some silicon rubber single sided tape. These tapes have a static coefficient of friction of up to 4. I have used these tapes to grip everything from plywood to the surface of poly-carbonate. However, these tapes only stick to themselves... Actually, maybe this stuff isn't the best for your application

Another thing you can try is to buy 2 magnets of decent strength, glue one to the bottom of the keypad and place the other on the underside of the table. (these have a 6.1 lb pulling force and should be small enough for your project, but do be careful, neodymium magnets are very fragile especially thin N48's) Then, place a strip of rubberized tape over the underside of the keypad including the face of the glued magnet. Because the Micro-controller uses flash memory rather than magnetic disks, the presence of the magnet will not erase any data. The rubber tape plays two parts in this, it increases the friction with the table surface, as well as damping the vibrations caused by key-hits. (which keeps the board from being vibrated off position)

sanguisinvia wrote:

For gripping the table without using tape, I would suggest trying some silicon rubber single sided tape. These tapes have a static coefficient of friction of up to 4. I have used these tapes to grip everything from plywood to the surface of poly-carbonate. However, these tapes only stick to themselves... Actually, maybe this stuff isn't the best for your application

Another thing you can try is to buy 2 magnets of decent strength, glue one to the bottom of the keypad and place the other on the underside of the table. (these have a 6.1 lb pulling force and should be small enough for your project, but do be careful, neodymium magnets are very fragile especially thin N48's) Then, place a strip of rubberized tape over the underside of the keypad including the face of the glued magnet. Because the Micro-controller uses flash memory rather than magnetic disks, the presence of the magnet will not erase any data. The rubber tape plays two parts in this, it increases the friction with the table surface, as well as damping the vibrations caused by key-hits. (which keeps the board from being vibrated off position)

The springs inside the switches are made of steel I think.

ZenithPhantasm wrote:

The springs inside the switches are made of steel I think.

From what I can find, the springs are made from stainless steel, which is generally non-magnetic. However, the sources disagree with each other on whether the stainless steel used is a magnetic strand. But for the sake of argument, let's say that they were magnetic, the small springs would be magnetized toward the bottom of the plate. Due to their housing, they cannot move around, so as far as I can tell, there would be no issue with magnets even if the springs were magnetic.

What about when the spring is compressed?

ZenithPhantasm wrote:

What about when the spring is compressed?

What?... The material of the spring remains constant, and even when the spring is fully compressed, it is still firmly attached on all edges... To go even further, the springs are more constrained when they are compressed... I don't quite understand what you are trying to get at...

sanguisinvia wrote:

For gripping the table without using tape, I would suggest trying some silicon rubber single sided tape. These tapes have a static coefficient of friction of up to 4. I have used these tapes to grip everything from plywood to the surface of poly-carbonate. However, these tapes only stick to themselves... Actually, maybe this stuff isn't the best for your application

Another thing you can try is to buy 2 magnets of decent strength, glue one to the bottom of the keypad and place the other on the underside of the table. (these have a 6.1 lb pulling force and should be small enough for your project, but do be careful, neodymium magnets are very fragile especially thin N48's) Then, place a strip of rubberized tape over the underside of the keypad including the face of the glued magnet. Because the Micro-controller uses flash memory rather than magnetic disks, the presence of the magnet will not erase any data. The rubber tape plays two parts in this, it increases the friction with the table surface, as well as damping the vibrations caused by key-hits. (which keeps the board from being vibrated off position)

I think I have some neodymium magnets lying around so I'll give it a try, but I have 2 concerns. The contacts inside the switch are magnetic so this could cause them to stick (though there's a decent distance between the keyswitches and the magnet if it was mounted to the bottom of the keypad,) and thicker desks. My ikea desk is almost an inch and a half thick, and since this is a variable for customers, I'd rather not rely on it since its effectiveness would be inconsistent.