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[Rule Discrepancy] osu!mania diff spread

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Shohei Ohtani
Topic Starter
Shohei Ohtani
osu!mania criteria:


General criteria:


So one of these is super unclear (For reference, osu!standard, Taiko, and CtB do not have this rule in their respective areas). I'd think that general would be overlooking everything, but then this: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/185572

The rule should probably be removed for osu!mania (Or clarified to state that it's an exception)

Not so much of a change in rules as is a "Remove the unclear rule, or clarify it to show an exception"
Kayano
1,286 posts
Joined July 2011
Kayano

General Criteria wrote:

The difficulties in the mapset must be in a consecutive order. Easy or Normal can be skipped if the gap in the star rating spread allows it. The order can be seen in the chart below. If your mapset has two difficulties, one of them cannot be an Insane or Expert. The lowest difficulty must be below 2.0 stars. The difficulty level of Taiko-specific and osu!mania-specific difficulties must also follow a well-designed spread and might contain an Hard/Insane only, if there are standard difficulties present. In CtB, the spread evaluation is upon the BATs discretion. The difficulty spread is determined by the map's star rating. A map falls under a certain difficulty when having a specific star rating:
What is "an Hard/Insane" means? OR or BOTH? I think we should better change this to "a Hard-Insane spread" or something like that

Mania Criteria wrote:

Each beatmap must have at least 2 difficulties and one of them must be Easy/Normal.
This should be removed, it is conflicted with general rules

And i think we may change "The lowest difficulty must be below 2.0 stars." to "The lowest difficulty must be below 2.0 stars, all modes together."
For example, Mania NM 2.2☆, HD 3.4☆, MX 4.6☆ when there is standard diffs and already have a standard-Easy 1.4☆, should they be judged as a full set then unrankable or judged same as only HD, MX diffs then rankable? This should be clear too.

Sorry if I should have another thread to put this request :D
Rumia-
2,513 posts
Joined July 2012
Rumia-
mania were clear off that this rule was stated in RC
which is need ar normal/easy in a set
and hybrid rule as 2.0 stars below as 2 diff
it was never stated that it must be NM/HD for hybrids.
and we do discussed with other BATs on our side on star ratings so the gap wont be too far
so i guess the mania isnt really a problem.
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/144223
this set was treated the same , so why not ?
richardfeder
1,056 posts
Joined March 2013
richardfeder
Clearly the one amended on 12-16 should be enforced.

OniJAM wrote:

What is "an Hard/Insane" means? OR or BOTH? I think we should better change this to "a Hard-Insane spread" or something like that
"An Hard/Insane only" obviously indicated that we only need one of them if std diffs are presented.

OniJAM wrote:

Mania Criteria wrote:

Each beatmap must have at least 2 difficulties and one of them must be Easy/Normal.
This should be removed, it is conflicted with general rules
This surely needs to be removed.

OniJAM wrote:

And i think we may change "The lowest difficulty must be below 2.0 stars." to "The lowest difficulty must be below 2.0 stars, all modes together."
For example, Mania NM 2.2☆, HD 3.4☆, MX 4.6☆ when there is standard diffs and already have a standard-Easy 1.4☆, should they be judged as a full set then unrankable or judged same as only HD, MX diffs then rankable? This should be clear too.
The logic is that auto-converts will eliminate gaps among specific mode's diffs, thus the case which "Mania NM 2.2☆, HD 3.4☆, MX 4.6☆ when there is standard diffs and already have a standard-Easy 1.4☆" is clearly a legit spread.
Kayano
1,286 posts
Joined July 2011
Kayano

richardfeder wrote:

Clearly the one amended on 12-16 should be enforced.

OniJAM wrote:

What is "an Hard/Insane" means? OR or BOTH? I think we should better change this to "a Hard-Insane spread" or something like that
"An Hard/Insane only" obviously indicated that we only need one of them if std diffs are presented.
If you see old criteria here, you wll be easy to understand what "/" means
The difficulty level of Taiko-specific difficulties must also follow a well-designed spread with no jumps in between difficulties, hence if you may include Normal/Hard/Insane, or Normal/Hard or Hard/Insane (only if it also has standard difficulties)
Clearly, "/" means "AND" there. But now we don't know what it means, so it should be clarified.

richardfeder wrote:

OniJAM wrote:

And i think we may change "The lowest difficulty must be below 2.0 stars." to "The lowest difficulty must be below 2.0 stars, all modes together."
For example, Mania NM 2.2☆, HD 3.4☆, MX 4.6☆ when there is standard diffs and already have a standard-Easy 1.4☆, should they be judged as a full set then unrankable or judged same as only HD, MX diffs then rankable? This should be clear too.
The logic is that auto-converts will eliminate gaps among specific mode's diffs, thus the case which "Mania NM 2.2☆, HD 3.4☆, MX 4.6☆ when there is standard diffs and already have a standard-Easy 1.4☆" is clearly a legit spread.
Yes I didn't express well, you are generally talking about what I have considered before. Agreed.
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze
I think that we shouldn't allow NM/IN spreads and encourage mappers to do a proper HD diff, currently players who are not able to do IN's and want to play gicen song have nothing to play. Also it just looks bad and feels even worse imho
richardfeder
1,056 posts
Joined March 2013
richardfeder

-Kamikaze- wrote:

I think that we shouldn't allow NM/IN spreads and encourage mappers to do a proper HD diff, currently players who are not able to do IN's and want to play gicen song have nothing to play. Also it just looks bad and feels even worse imho
Allowing Hard/Insane diff only in hybrid mapset is a fair compromise imo. Clearly for mania only mapset a proper/full spread is demanded, however for hybrid mapset which mania is not the main mode, letting AC plays a role in the spread is completely understandable.
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze

richardfeder wrote:

however for hybrid mapset which mania is not the main mode, letting AC plays a role in the spread is completely understandable.
This is the main reason why we should AVOID spreads like that. Seriously, AC's shouldn't be ever considered as part of mode's spread, counting out ctb of course. This also seems unfair to mania only mapsets, since when you're making your map if you just find someone who's mapping the same song for std, you can do only two diffs and don't even care about the spread, while mania mapset need to put big amount of work in it.
Lach
1,118 posts
Joined November 2012
Lach
Should follow the same trend that taiko does. Mapsets can include two taiko secondary mode difficulties as long as they're consecutive with a minimum difficulty of muzukashii. Which means Hard and Insane and beyond.

Normal, Hard
Hard, Insane
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze
I agree with Lach on that
PyaKura
2,084 posts
Joined January 2013
PyaKura

-Kamikaze- wrote:

I agree with Lach on that
Fullerene-
550 posts
Joined April 2013
Fullerene-

-Kamikaze- wrote:

I agree with Lach on that
As long as the mania-specific difficulties in the hybrid set are consecutive and don't intentionally skip a difficulty (like the example map in OP where the mania spread is NM -> IN) this should be fine.

For harder difficulties, mania-specific difficulties should ideally replace autoconverts, as they are of much higher quality and can be modded accordingly. Autoconverts, as questionable as they are, aren't completely terrible when there isn't a lot of stuff going on, and IMO are fine for lower difficulties (and can be considered part of the spread)

The only problem with that would be the possibility of easier autoconverts being of a different keymode than the mania-specific spread. If you select a different key, you're gimping yourself in score, and if you don't, you're playing a different keymode.

edit: It seems this is already in place


Though it would be nice to have that added into the RC wiki.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

Lach wrote:

Should follow the same trend that taiko does. Mapsets can include two taiko secondary mode difficulties as long as they're consecutive with a minimum difficulty of muzukashii. Which means Hard and Insane and beyond.

Normal, Hard
Hard, Insane
Iirc this was fine if the Standard diffs converted well to an equivalent lower difficulty, which is the reason why they only apply to hybrid sets.
Lust
osu! Alumni
2,667 posts
Joined January 2013
Lust
Nothing substantial has been provided. Give me a poke with a proper wording and I'll proceed to move this back.

Flaming for now.
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