forum

Thinking about getting a mechanical keyboard, what switches?

posted
Total Posts
65
Topic Starter
Foxi
I know I'm likely to get red, brown or black. I know how each switch works, and I think those would be the best choices for my style.

What I want to know is which one will be best for Osu. I have my eyes on a black switch CM Storm Quickfire Rapid right now. Is this a good choice?
cheezstik
General consensus is that reds = best cos they are linear and have the least actuation force = more stamina. Blacks should be fine as well. Most people usually say that linear > tactile for osu, so either of those 2 should be fine, but then again, it should be mostly personal preference, so whatever you find comfortable.
Topic Starter
Foxi

cheezstik wrote:

General consensus is that reds = best cos they are linear and have the least actuation force = more stamina. Blacks should be fine as well. Most people usually say that linear > tactile for osu, so either of those 2 should be fine, but then again, it should be mostly personal preference, so whatever you find comfortable.
So I should go black so that I don't double-tap on accident? I have pretty strong fingers.
cheezstik

InnocentEyes wrote:

cheezstik wrote:

General consensus is that reds = best cos they are linear and have the least actuation force = more stamina. Blacks should be fine as well. Most people usually say that linear > tactile for osu, so either of those 2 should be fine, but then again, it should be mostly personal preference, so whatever you find comfortable.
So I should go black so that I don't double-tap on accident? I have pretty strong fingers.
Even with hulk fingers it'd be pretty hard to double tap on accident, you'd have to twitch pretty hard, something that won't happen if you are playing properly. Apparently a lot less accidental presses happen with blacks instead of reds though so maybe that would help that.
Topic Starter
Foxi
In that case, I'm sold with blacks. Thanks
Wishy
Red are better than blacks.

Your fingers are probably not as strong as you think.
cheaptricks
Does Quickfire Rapid even come in Black switches? I thought it was just Red/Blue/Brown.
Xayne
Black is going to severely hamper your ability to stream compared to reds. The actuation force difference is quite large between the two.
Topic Starter
Foxi

cheaptricks wrote:

Does Quickfire Rapid even come in Black switches? I thought it was just Red/Blue/Brown.
I was surprised, too. Apparently they do upon special request forms.

Wishy & Xayne wrote:

It's going to screw up your stream. You are not as strong as you think you are.
So does that mean brown is a more reasonable choice? I'm a bit hesitant on reds.
cheezstik

InnocentEyes wrote:

cheaptricks wrote:

Does Quickfire Rapid even come in Black switches? I thought it was just Red/Blue/Brown.
I was surprised, too. Apparently they do upon special request forms.

Wishy & Xayne wrote:

It's going to screw up your stream. You are not as strong as you think you are.
So does that mean brown is a more reasonable choice? I'm a bit hesitant on reds.
Brown is the same actuation force as reds, the only difference is that it's tactile, which is apparently not as good for osu. Why are you hesitant on reds? You should really just try to find a store near you in person where you can try out the different switches.
Topic Starter
Foxi

cheezstik wrote:

So does that mean brown is a more reasonable choice? I'm a bit hesitant on reds.
Brown is the same actuation force as reds, the only difference is that it's tactile, which is apparently not as good for osu. Why are you hesitant on reds? You should really just try to find a store near you in person where you can try out the different switches.[/quote]
I hesitate because I'm already making a custom 3-button osu keyboard, see http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/3572450/ which has red switches. I wanted to try something different for songs that don't require you to go insanely fast. I know green is definitely not an option.
RaneFire

Xayne wrote:

Black is going to severely hamper your ability to stream compared to reds.
No evidence to support this. There are enough people who do better on blacks than they do on reds.

Personally I recommend a linear switch for osu! std specifically. The tactile feedback is not needed. It's something you want for typing, or more complex rhythm games (mania), where tactile confirmation can be useful.

Black or red is preference. There are two muscle groups when it comes to pressing buttons; one presses (flexor), the other lifts (extensor). It's easy to train grip strength, so what most people have problems with is lifting - insert joke here - and blacks will assist them in this regard because there is more force pushing up against their fingers.

If you are used to lighter keys, or have used blue switches extensively (many have used a blackwidow), the next switch change is obviously to go for reds (only a mere 5g lighter) and that's why it's promoted. Blacks are best chosen as your first mech keyboard after coming from membrane keyboards which should have a similar force requirement.

Personal reference:
It took me a while to get used to lifting properly on blue switches as my first mech kb. I measured my membrane keyboard with some oldschool gram weights sitting on top of the keys and found it had 80g of force required before the key even started to drop. Very little movement is required on a membrane because the plastic domes eventually get tired, so the fingers stay down. Knowing this I should have probably gone for blacks, because it took me a long time to lift properly, and 3 years later I have now replaced some blues with reds and felt almost no difference to my gameplay because... yeah... I can lift now. The tactile difference was not even a factor because I hit the keys so hard.

Meanwhile my friend (#1 SA) plays on blacks after using a membrane for 2 years, can stream 225BPM, and changed out some blacks for reds hoping to see improvement, but then he couldn't stream anymore because he needed that upward force that came with blacks. I don't know if he went back to blacks or is still trying to get used to reds, but he is still saying black switches are OP.

So all you need to ask yourself is: What would suit you?
Typhoon
Don't get a quickfire rapid. The soldering on the board is weak. I had to re-solder the back of the board a few times to get certain keys working again but i ended up throwing it out. Spend a little more instead and get a Ducky or Das keyboard and it will last you years. I personally use a Ducky DK9008G2 Pro PBT with brown switches. I find brown switches to be the best of both worlds. Great for gaming and typing.
Vuelo Eluko

Xayne wrote:

Black is going to severely hamper your ability to stream compared to reds. The actuation force difference is quite large between the two.
quite the opposite, it makes streaming easier on the fingers since you have to do less work lifting your fingers again, when i went from reds to black i could immediately stream faster and for longer than before [a 200+ note stream at 180 bpm was rough to keep stamina on with reds, easy on blacks]

also one of if not the fastest/longest stream player uses blacks, so theres that.

I wouldnt really recommend blacks if you have nancy fingers but as long as you have the finger strength to stream on rubber domes, blacks wont even present a challenge in that regard. I think the majority of people who hate on blacks from personal experience have used nothing but reds for years and have atrophied a bit in the downward tapping muscle, whereas i can stream mendes hard enough on the surface of my desk to make the whole thing shake on each tap.

Typhoon wrote:

Don't get a quickfire rapid. The soldering on the board is weak. I had to re-solder the back of the board a few times to get certain keys working again but i ended up throwing it out. Spend a little more instead and get a Ducky or Das keyboard and it will last you years. I personally use a Ducky DK9008G2 Pro PBT with brown switches. I find brown switches to be the best of both worlds. Great for gaming and typing.
This can happen for sure but not often, i used mine for a long time and only had to resolder once. This is kinda something you have to be prepared to do with a mechanical keyboard, although I will say the one im using now by steelseries hasn't had that issue yet, so... eh, valid concern.
I Give Up
Choosing between reds and blacks depends more on technique than stamina/strength. I have an incredible left hand grip (stronger than my right) but waste more energy on blacks thus not utilising the high tension spring properly and so I tap slower on them.
Xayne

RaneFire wrote:

Xayne wrote:

Black is going to severely hamper your ability to stream compared to reds.
No evidence to support this.
Except simple science... Takes more energy/muscle/stamina to stream on something that takes 60g of pressure vs. a switch that takes 45g at the same bpm. No evidence...if you throw out simple logic. More resistance = more stress on fingers
Vuelo Eluko
if you rule out the advantages to more force pushing up at your fingers that i mentioned, sure
Xayne

Riince wrote:

if you rule out the advantages to more force pushing up at your fingers that i mentioned, sure
Which only benefits you if you're someone who hovers over the actuation point rather than fully stroking the key each time, which the vast majority of players don't when playing osu. If we're talking every possible use for the keyboard, sure. But if he's strictly buying this keyboard for osu play, I just don't see the point in getting anything other than reds.
Vuelo Eluko
blacks are better for osu! thats one good reason
Xayne

Riince wrote:

blacks are better for osu! thats one good reason
You are literally the only osu player I've ever seen say that.
jasian
I've used Reds, Blacks, Browns and Clears and they're all the same to me. So just choose whatever looks the best/is the cheapest.
Yuudachi-kun
Blues so you can make lots of satisfying loud noises. Blue master race.
RaneFire

Xayne wrote:

Except simple science... Takes more energy/muscle/stamina to stream on something that takes 60g of pressure vs. a switch that takes 45g at the same bpm. No evidence...if you throw out simple logic. More resistance = more stress on fingers
Thanks. All I needed to know.

Theorycrafting means nothing if it doesn't hold up in practice.

Where does the pain (exhaustion) in your arm come from when streaming? I'm pretty sure it's in the "extensor digitorum", i.e. the muscle group that pulls your fingers up.
Xayne

RaneFire wrote:

Xayne wrote:

Except simple science... Takes more energy/muscle/stamina to stream on something that takes 60g of pressure vs. a switch that takes 45g at the same bpm. No evidence...if you throw out simple logic. More resistance = more stress on fingers
Thanks. All I needed to know.
If you don't see what I was doing there, then I see why this entire conversation with you is pointless. It's not theory crafting if it's already been proven. The vast majority of the osu community prefers red switches to any other switch for a reason. The reasons are as stated. Less stress on your fingers = more stamina. Period. It's not that hard to understand. I don't know about you, but the keys don't raise my fingers for me, they raise the key only after I remove the pressure from it. The spring pressure from blacks literally only ever applies if you are touch typing. Like I said in a post before, no one does that while playing osu. You bring your own finger up. Having more pressure from the spring is obsolete. However, having less pressure against your fingers for each stroke is not. It comes directly into play with every single note you hit.
Xayne

Kheldragar wrote:

Blues so you can make lots of satisfying loud noises. Blue master race.
I will admit, when I started playing osu with blues, the click certainly helped in getting into rhythm. Feels goodman.
show more
Please sign in to reply.

New reply