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Streaming and such problems

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29
Topic Starter
Ennowyn
I've been playing osu! for 7 months now (4 actually), so I'm not exactly a new player nor do I not know about streaming, but this is my first post on the forums so I might as well just say "HI! :) ".

Now, before I proceed, I play offline for the majority of my time in osu!, so my rankings and playcount might seem a bit low. This post is also related to a few other threads such as "Stream Skill Loss", "Streaming with your forearm", and "Finger locking/stiffing up".

Simply put, I've "lost" the ability to stream and I have a lot of problems preventing me to stream, possibly both physically and mentally. I've tried many various streaming tips and techniques but this is the only time when I've seem to have "lost" it. My singletapping is fine, my reading ability is fine (I can keep up with AR10 and do OD 7-9), but it's just my fingers.

My fingers don't stream like they've used to. It's like they've gone really really "weak". It's not RSI, that I know because I even took the time to see a doctor. It's just that my fingers end up not wanting to press sometime during the stream and I end up failing it. It sounds like fatigue, and yes, I've taken a break, but there was little to no change. I've taken a longer break (we're talking a 2 month break here), and still nothing. I used to be able to stream 160 BPM at average 73% accuracy with 200-220 bursts and last for a long time before my fingers tire out. Now, I can't even do half of that. My fingers have degraded from having so much stamina to tapping non-stop to not even managing 30-40 notes before one or both of my fingers "die" out. I fail most streams because of that, and I've stopped playing 3 months ago because of that as well. It's like the coordination isn't there anymore.

I only picked it up again recently which was almost a month ago but the problems still persist. I'm starting to think it's a mental problem combined with a physical problem, and that it originated when I started working on accuracy for my streams which was around 4 months ago, because I was kind of "mashing" it out but . Sometimes I'll get a really good accuracy on a map with a few streams in it in one try along with good score while I do worse the next dozen tries after. Sometimes I'll perfect a stream in some parts of a beatmap while I fail on others. Sometimes when I focus on a stream, I'll either do good or do crap. If I force my fingers through a stream I'll tense up faster and obviously miss a few. If I keep it relaxed they'll just "die" out on their own, tensing up or no tensing up. I can read the stream, it's just that my brain probably isn't relaying it to my finger response.

The problem also seems to come from how I tap. Bottoming out would just lead to my mashing habits again but this time without the stamina. I usually tap the keys lightly (how I play the piano), keeping a small distance between them so that my fingers just "hover" over the keys, when often during a stream whenever or not they tense, they just bend and curve in so much my fingers "stick" to the keys. It's probably because I have a laptop and playing on a flat keyboard is different from using an actual keyboard, along with my Z and X keys being worn out after much constant tapping. I've tried playing with a mechanical keyboard with brown switches for an hour or so (Blackwidow Ultimate Stealth, orange or "brown-like" switches), but it only seems to alleviate the problem for a while. It feels a bit better because I'm actually receiving feedback from the keys instead of a flat surface but my accuracy goes to crap when it does and I miss a few times in streams. So it's partially hardware but not entirely, since if you can't stream with a laptop keyboard, you can't stream with anything even if it's made to be "best keyboard" in the world.

I don't feel any use from my forearm in streaming too, there's little or no "burning" sensation, just my hand muscles tensing up. My forearm is relaxed whenever I stream although I do feel a bit of tension in it when I do. My desk is a bit raised so that along with my laptop itself being raised as well never allowed me to actually get my forearm level with my keyboard. The posture was the same as how I played before I started failing streams.

Sample of before I started doing horrible:



(I don't own the pack nor it's sprites/materials, it was just for my private use)

It's gotten to the point where I don't even know what's creating my terrible streaming abilities and what I'm even trying to do to fix it. Any suggestions are appreciated.

It used to be fun. I really want to get back into osu! again, but not like this.
Gumpy
Take a long break
and maybe go see a doctor
Topic Starter
Ennowyn
It's not RSI, that I know because I even took the time to see a doctor.
My singletapping is fine
Saphirshroom

Mishiranu wrote:

Now, before I proceed, I play offline for the majority of my time in osu!, so my rankings and playcount might seem a bit low..
Indeed they do. Play more.
cheaptricks
Practice slower streams. 73% is not being able to stream that BPM. You may be having trouble because the streams are too fast and you end up mashing. So practice slower streams to develop proper finger control.
winber1
eat more spaghetti
E m i
jesus
i don't even understand what you're saying, but play more :(
Gumpy

Mishiranu wrote:

It's not RSI, that I know because I even took the time to see a doctor.
My singletapping is fine
As if I read the entire thing.
Vuelo Eluko

cheaptricks wrote:

Practice slower streams. 73% is not being able to stream that BPM. You may be having trouble because the streams are too fast and you end up mashing. So practice slower streams to develop proper finger control.
+1, i didnt consider myself able to stream 200 until i was getting 98% on od9
x_Co0ki420ezi_x

winber1 wrote:

eat more spaghetti
spagetti is shit

fusilli is better

i mean who the fuck bothers making spagetti when you have to chop it into fucking TINY FUC KING PIECES befcore you can fucking eat it like a fucking retard

when i make food ii dont want to sit there fucking chopping it up when i could be putting it into my mouth yess delicious carbs yes so good yummmmmmmmmmm makes my tummy ache
winber1

x_Co0ki420ezi_x wrote:

i dont want to sit there fucking

x_Co0ki420ezi_x wrote:

i could be putting it into my mouth
whoa, slow down there partner
Vuelo Eluko

winber1 wrote:

x_Co0ki420ezi_x wrote:

i dont want to sit there fucking

x_Co0ki420ezi_x wrote:

i could be putting it into my mouth
whoa, slow down there partner
Recent Infringements
Date Action Length Description
13 days ago
SILENCE
2 hour(s) inappropriate conduct on the forums


hej
chainpullz
If your ability to stream 16-32 notes in an actual map (not a shitty stream practice map) is not impaired then there is nothing to worry about. Stream practice maps are great for training stream stamina and finger motion but are actually really shitty for training things like stream accuracy and aim if you ask me. Also, as Riince has pointed out, if you can't stream with high accuracy (96%+ perhaps? This is where the biggest pp gains are at least) at high od (10 might not be necessary but I won't comment on a more appropriate number) then you aren't able to really stream that bpm.

If you have the finger motion down and want to practice accuracy you should definitely be looking for maps that have lot's of streams as opposed to actual stream practice maps.
Karuta-_old_1
I am rank 5k and I can't even stream that shit

I play this instead
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/97141
Topic Starter
Ennowyn

winber1 wrote:

eat more spaghetti
Oshet. I haven't eaten spaghetti in 3 months too. :o :o :o

chainpullz wrote:

If your ability to stream 16-32 notes in an actual map (not a shitty stream practice map) is not impaired then there is nothing to worry about. Stream practice maps are great for training stream stamina and finger motion but are actually really shitty for training things like stream accuracy and aim if you ask me. Also, as Riince has pointed out, if you can't stream with high accuracy (96%+ perhaps? This is where the biggest pp gains are at least) at high od (10 might not be necessary but I won't comment on a more appropriate number) then you aren't able to really stream that bpm.

If you have the finger motion down and want to practice accuracy you should definitely be looking for maps that have lot's of streams as opposed to actual stream practice maps.
What if I told you I had somewhat of the accuracy but not the finger motion? I started training accuracy when I knew I was just mashing (although the video proves somewhat otherwise) and I managed to do 130-140 almost perfectly (92-95%) before I started losing the "stamina/coordination". I can still do fine with accuracy now before one of my fingers wouldn't just move. It's all down to something mental, like I'd attempt a 150 BPM beatmap with streams randomly and I'll pass it with good score and accuracy, and then I'll fail the next dozen tries mainly on those streams.

cheaptricks wrote:

Practice slower streams. 73% is not being able to stream that BPM. You may be having trouble because the streams are too fast and you end up mashing. So practice slower streams to develop proper finger control.
So it's just something in my brain that's just telling me not to mash and hence why my finger's not just moving at all? The entire problem started when I started training accuracy anyways (see above quote reply).
chainpullz
You don't train accuracy on stream practice maps. Your ability to mindlessly alternate on two buttons is a terrible measure of accuracy.
Saphirshroom
Just throwing this in there: 92-95% is horrible, not "almost perfect".
Streaming comes with experience. There are no tricks to it. I had this kind of mental block too, where I would just freeze up but it's pretty natural and goes away at some point.
You should never have stamina problems when playing slow streams, you're most likely pressing the buttons too hard which, again, you get better at by just playing more and getting accustomed to your keyboard.
Topic Starter
Ennowyn

Saphirshroom wrote:

Just throwing this in there: 92-95% is horrible, not "almost perfect".
Streaming comes with experience. There are no tricks to it. I had this kind of mental block too, where I would just freeze up but it's pretty natural and goes away at some point.
You should never have stamina problems when playing slow streams, you're most likely pressing the buttons too hard which, again, you get better at by just playing more and getting accustomed to your keyboard.
I've had this laptop for a long time. And the Z and X keys have been much gone squishy from all the tapping. :( I'm also trying not to tap too hard but it gets to that point anyways whenever I start streaming, which would leads to my mashing again.

chainpullz wrote:

You don't train accuracy on stream practice maps. Your ability to mindlessly alternate on two buttons is a terrible measure of accuracy.
I didn't use the Long Stream Practice Maps when I started accuracy training. I know that they're good for stamina but there wasn't a bit of accuracy in there, so I went back to short streams/long stream beatmaps that had complicated patterns.
Ethelon
You're currently not as good as whatever point you're comparing yourself to. It happens all the time. You'll never always play at (or near) your best. And the worse you are, the less consistent you'll be.
It could be any number of factors that we wouldn't know about.

Maybe you were really warmed up before.
Maybe your muscles were more relaxed for whatever reason, mental or physical.
Maybe you're tilting because you care too much about this inconsequential issue.
Maybe it's something else.
Who cares?

Stop analyzing yourself and worrying that you may not be as good as you thought you were. Look at how much thought you're putting into this. No wonder you aren't having any fun.

You know what the solution is?
Play More™

If you reply, do know that my reply to your potential future reply has been bolded for you.
Topic Starter
Ennowyn

Ethelon wrote:

You're currently not as good as whatever point you're comparing yourself to. It happens all the time. You'll never always play at (or near) your best. And the worse you are, the less consistent you'll be.
It could be any number of factors that we wouldn't know about.

Maybe you were really warmed up before.
Maybe your muscles were more relaxed for whatever reason, mental or physical.
Maybe you're tilting because you care too much about this inconsequential issue.
Maybe it's something else.
Who cares?

Stop analyzing yourself and worrying that you may not be as good as you thought you were. Look at how much thought you're putting into this. No wonder you aren't having any fun.

You know what the solution is?
Play More™

If you reply, do know that my reply to your potential future reply has been bolded for you.
Well it makes sense. There are gaps where you'll drop down while you're trying to improve. I am playing more than usual now, that's for sure, and I'm still a bit worried about my streaming thing even though it's not much of a big deal now. Thanks; everyone else too.

I want to raise a question though, if someone can still answer. Streaming with your fingers requires your forearm muscles correct? How do you "stream with your forearm", because whenever I stream I don't really feel my forearm doing any work while the fingers do all the lifting and they tense/freeze up every now and then because of that, even on 130 BPM streams and triples (I'm not saying I can't stream/triple at that BPM, it just happens sometimes). My tapping habits could be part of it because it's difficult not to press the keys down hard while you're streaming, which end up "sticking" to my fingers (benefits of a laptop keyboard, hoorah!). My forearm just remains relaxed (at least I feel like it). Is there a position/technique to do so, assuming it's not just Play More™?
Vuelo Eluko
The fingers have no muscles, your fingers are all skin, bone, ligaments and tendons, all the muscles that move your fingers are at the base of your forearm attached near the elbow. this is part of why fingers are relavitely easy to get re-attached if they get cut off, it's really just a system of levers and hinges that get acted on by muscles farther away.
E m i
if it's not a muscle endurance issue, then it's a mental issue. i can't even ATTEMPT long streams of 150+ BPM because I stop moving my fingers long before feeling any burn in my forearm. i've never been able to get to muscle failure, because i am unable to attempt the BPMs that require such effort despite being able to stream up to 260bpm semi-reliably for short periods of time by employing cheat techniques such as rotating my wrist around and flexing my forearm.
play more recommended
ZenithPhantasm


^How to instantly gain the powers of Cookiezi.
Vuelo Eluko

ZenithPhantasm wrote:



^How to instantly gain the powers of Cookiezi.
look at that smug motherfucker, cookiezi is entirely in control of this encounter, casually rolling away without a care.
I Give Up
For low bpm streams you have to relax your fingers, you shouldn't feel any burn whatsoever. Slow stream is all about being relaxed and having a good sense of rhythm - being able to keep that metronome going in your head. Since most streams are 1/4 beat, every fourth note in the stream should land on that metronome and you should have no excuse not to hit a 300 on that fourth note.

If you're having problem not being able to keep your fingers relaxed, try basing your wrist a little further away from keyboard (but not too far away or it will hurt). This will ensure that fingers have to be a little more extended to hit the keys and you will have better control of them. I recommend doing this as a warm-up till you get into the rhythm and can go back to normal position as it is not a very stamina efficient technique but it does the trick.
ZenithPhantasm

KukiMonster wrote:

For low bpm streams you have to relax your fingers, you shouldn't feel any burn whatsoever. Slow stream is all about being relaxed and having a good sense of rhythm - being able to keep that metronome going in your head. Since most streams are 1/4 beat, every fourth note in the stream should land on that metronome and you should have no excuse not to hit a 300 on that fourth note.

If you're having problem not being able to keep your fingers relaxed, try basing your wrist a little further away from keyboard (but not too far away or it will hurt). This will ensure that fingers have to be a little more extended to hit the keys and you will have better control of them. I recommend doing this as a warm-up till you get into the rhythm and can go back to normal position as it is not a very stamina efficient technique but it does the trick.
How do I shove a metronome in my head?
x_Co0ki420ezi_x
having a metronome option would be nice for shitty maps with random breaks that cause you to lose the offset in your head, as well as maps that arent generic electro with 24/7 1/1 thump in the background
Topic Starter
Ennowyn

KukiMonster wrote:

For low bpm streams you have to relax your fingers, you shouldn't feel any burn whatsoever. Slow stream is all about being relaxed and having a good sense of rhythm - being able to keep that metronome going in your head. Since most streams are 1/4 beat, every fourth note in the stream should land on that metronome and you should have no excuse not to hit a 300 on that fourth note.

If you're having problem not being able to keep your fingers relaxed, try basing your wrist a little further away from keyboard (but not too far away or it will hurt). This will ensure that fingers have to be a little more extended to hit the keys and you will have better control of them. I recommend doing this as a warm-up till you get into the rhythm and can go back to normal position as it is not a very stamina efficient technique but it does the trick.
|

That I can do but it's more towards a mental issue I have to eventually get over with like what Momiji said. My fingers even start freezing at the end of triples (1 stack) and the start of sliders on a simple 135 BPM beatmap, which I've never encountered before until now. Like I said in my original post, they don't tense, they just randomly "freeze" (no tension, just stops moving), much like a delayed reaction.
UnknownPlayer
lol what OP said is actually the same problem of mine. I used to have high stamina, could do https://osu.ppy.sh/b/171943 except the FD part without any problem. But now my fingers are suck, cant even do 180 bpm long stream. What OP desbribed is exactly what I had experienced. May be we dont have talent to play this game, just play for fun or quit it.
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