we are not satisfied by the current system in ranking beatmaps. hopefully, one day, this wish will be granted. players need more, players need to evolve. It is more fun if there is enough challenge.

yes ... all ranked maps is too easy . we need more harder ranked maps (at least 8 ~ 10 stars)

Uh, okay. Who exactly are "we"? And I wish I had that kind of problems.

"we" = all the ranked 300 and higher player .. im sure there is alot player that is not satisfied with only IN2006 being hardest map

the players, mostly the top rankers and former o2jam players. since i started this thread alone, i cant give you any names. well, chunsern agreed with me.

Moved in the appropriate forum. Also, t/190572 . I strongly recommend to read the previous thread.

okay thanks.

after a certain point you start to run out of songs that can make super hard maps without being grossly overdone/mapped

4k has already reached that point unfortunately, other key counts don't suffer as much

4k uses 4 keys only, so running out of songs that can make super hard maps without overmapping is not a question imo.
7k, 8k, and up is a different story. there are a lot of things we can do with more keys, experiment, make it fun, and make it harder without reaching the point of impossible.

#ETProblems

I think the hardest part about getting ET maps is making sure that they actually play well.
Only a few people can actually tell whether something that difficult is fun or not, and that usually ends up being the same person who mapped it.

So an ET map mapped by, let's say Entozer, will be much easier to push forward since the person mapping it can most likely play it / explain how certain hard parts of the map worked.

If someone like me were to map a 9.00 star difficulty, it would probably play terribly since I can't actually keep up with that difficulty.

hi charles
no, the problem is finding people that dare mod it since even charts that play well don't get to the amount of mods BATs ask for for looking at it, and don't dare even try rank it because of fear of retaliation

I just playtest my maps with halftime, the patterns play exactly the same and you can judge whether it plays well without being good enough to play it at its normal speed :v

I would say both of those are legitimate issues. The problem of ensuring ET maps play well is certainly legitimate. There is a limited number of players capable of actually playing ET maps, and out of those players only some of them actually understand what makes a good map. This is true at every skill level. Some players simply do not understand mapping. The numbers get even worse when you're looking for someone who not only understands mapping and can play an ET level map well enough to mod it and is actually willing to spend the time it takes to mod something. It's relatively easy to find someone who can mod the standard ENHI range of difficulties, but finding the required amount of mods for maps that go beyond the Insane difficulty becomes increasingly difficult.

I would say another dimension of the problem is motivation and how mappers feel about the system. ET players and mappers here seem to feel discriminated against by the rules and the ranking system at large. Whether or not this is intended doesn't matter, since it's about how these mappers and players perceive things. I know that if I was capable of making decent ET level maps I would not be trying to get them ranked right now, because I feel that the effort required to try to rank something of that difficulty is simply not worth it.

Personally, I don't feel that issues such as difficulty spikes or overmapping should disqualify ET level maps from being ranked the way they would on easier maps. As the difficulty of maps increase, mappers should be more free to create patterns that would be otherwise considered unrankable, because ET maps are targeted at the elite players who should be expected to be able to deal with essentially any pattern a mapper can think up, regardless of difficulty.

Things I think that could help the mania ranking procedure improve:

- Isolated Mania ranking/mapping/modding queues with their own subforms.
- An easier accessibility to tools/guides to help mania players understand difficulty rankings beyond stars, mapping techniques, patterns, etc.
- A more streamlined ranking procedure that could help people map collaborate with difficulties to make the spreads more diverse i.e. things like https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/3514886/ and https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/115773/start=30.
- A broader recognition of the legitimacy of the mania mode of osu! as more than just a joke mode amongst the general community.
- More BATs (We're working on this, and yes I'm aware of the challenges associated with being/becoming BAT)
- More people dedicated towards taking actions to rank harder beatmaps and actually doing something about it.

We have all these people from O2jam, LR2, DJ Max, and so forth that know about how things work, granted that osu!mania has it's own style (thankfully), but we need to act upon it.

#RankHarderMaps2014

#RanklZexlMaps
#RankRaikaMaps
#BATsPls

Agka wrote:

hi charles
no, the problem is finding people that dare mod it since even charts that play well don't get to the amount of mods BATs ask for for looking at it, and don't dare even try rank it because of fear of retaliation

Now I'm sad

Aqo wrote:

I just playtest my maps with halftime, the patterns play exactly the same and you can judge whether it plays well without being good enough to play it at its normal speed :v

on standard too? because some of your maps seem like theyd still be pretty borderline impossible on halftime cough cough shut down everything

Riince wrote:

on standard too? because some of your maps seem like theyd still be pretty borderline impossible on halftime cough cough shut down everything

what this has in common with the topic D:

Riince wrote:

Aqo wrote:

I just playtest my maps with halftime, the patterns play exactly the same and you can judge whether it plays well without being good enough to play it at its normal speed :v

on standard too? because some of your maps seem like theyd still be pretty borderline impossible on halftime cough cough shut down everything

This is osumania, not osu standard

Then make it yourself and rank it if you think that making good quality ET maps isnt a problem.

Unfortunately, most of good mappers who can actually make pretty good 6-7* (8*+ maps are pretty impossible for 90% players from top100 unless it has easy symmetry patterns, because star rating looks only on density), dont care about ranking process.

scarykidrow wrote:

Elementaires wrote:

#ETProblems

#rankhardandfunmaps2015

Even though i'm still a Novice player. ;w;

scarykidrow wrote:

This is osumania, not osu standard

good to know

so you want ET maps like o2jam private server most are ETchart? (based lv on 75+ = (8star)) ''just point to 7K''

NO!!

ET maps also need to care quality based on instrument. don't make fkin overmap

scarykidrow wrote:

This is osumania, not osu standard

osu!std also got ET maps, they are equal and not ranked too

#ETmainproblemtogetrank

ExPew wrote:

#ETmainproblemtogetrank

hear sound --> 5 notes
1/16

my opinions
1,ET map is not always overmap.
you can choose the song has many instruments,sounds.
then you can make ET map.

2,it's ok to make challenge map for player
do you know "For Ultraplayers"?
in SDVX,it was made to kill pro SDVX player lol
and many players love this.
challenge is also good.

anyway,i love calm song,i make easy map always,so it meets easy maps.
more high quality ET map please

People focus on ET maps and skipped quality.
When your ET maps have quality,we will agree to rank.

Why even less ranked maps recently ?
You must think about the reason.

O2Jam has way too many bad ET charts. Now, I think that's mostly because the majority of O2Jam players now are ET, and only care about having more ET maps to play.

ExPew, I don't think overmapping is always bad. Some overmapping is fun, and plays good. Not all. But some. Overmapping IS rankable: t/125409/

how to judge good or bad

Mania is not for smashing your keyboard, it's for playing the music. In a good map I can tell what sound each object is supposed to represent and that's impossible at that difficulty, there's just too much clutter. Above 5-6 stars maps only represent the energy and flow of the music, which makes the mode devolve into osu!standard.

Some maps just represent same sound with more notes (like 3 notes for one sound instead of 1 note) and I think it's okay
As long as map is not very overmapped and/or doesn't have ghost notes every 1/1 it should be okay to rank
Also @Tear, pepole want some challenge in maps, or they just get bored and go to other games

Guys, the thing with this is, as other people pointed out already, that these maps either lack in quality and that pretty much no one can point these errors out.
For my part, I dont know shit about mania mapping or playing, but Iam sure that 11 star maps (such as the kakuzetsu) are pretty much overmapped. Like, wtf is >this< supposed to be. It basically looks like >this< to me, if one would compere it to std. Random shit scattered across the map. It's possible to hit, but Iam sure you wont, unless you play this map many many times.
Who is supposed to give these maps a proper check if even 50% speed would confuse the hell out of them. Things get unranked for being too difficult on one part (-> Jenny's FLOWER for example), even though they look good and playable, so how are these extra difficult mania maps supposed to pass the test?

If you want to play overmapped and bad-quality maps, go ahead and map your own, play unrankeds or go to another mania game.
Why dont you guys try to get into modding yourselves? None of these will ever see the light of the ranked section, unless you find a way to properly mod these diffs.

I want to play harder maps and I DO mod them if I have a chance to do so. I also try to map tem decently. That doesn't really change a thing tho.
Also I don't think anyone wants 11 star maps ranked because they're obviously retardedly hard. This topic is more about maps of difficulty similar/slightly harder then current top rated maps such as Thunderbolt or IN2k6, and there are good quality maps that could be ranked (like Chaosmaid, which even appeared in MWC Finals), which do have a full spread, but they don't get attention they need and slowly die