These new "rules" are getting us nowhere.

Those "rules" were meant to be guidelines to help newbie mappers making "standard" maps and increase their mapping experience.
After aquiring experience, new original maps should come from that mapper.
Instead this happens: maps go against a "rule" and both mappers and BATs don't know what to do.

Please guys, think about one/two years ago.
Everyone made maps quite reasonably without the need of this and you can see what happened after that: playing was fun, many users registered and the community grew a lot in a short period of time.

Instead of stimulating mappers it's almost like the "rules" are forcing them to make maps in a fixed way: "this is not allowed", "this is bad", "this is boring", "this is too hard", "this is useless", "remove this and that"...
So yeah, every map will be the same. Then what's the point of mapping? Let's just have the editor making the maps for us.

Again, please think about one/two years ago, guys.

My two cents.
I'm sorry i went off-topic, Jerrysr.

Card N'FoRcE wrote:

These new "rules" are getting us nowhere.

Those "rules" were meant to be guidelines to help newbie mappers making "standard" maps and increase their mapping experience.
After aquiring experience, new original maps should come from that mapper.
Instead this happens: maps go against a "rule" and both mappers and BATs don't know what to do.

Please guys, think about one/two years ago.
Everyone made maps quite reasonably without the need of this and you can see what happened after that: playing was fun, many users registered and the community grew a lot in a short period of time.

Instead of stimulating mappers it's almost like the "rules" are forcing them to make maps in a fixed way: "this is not allowed", "this is bad", "this is boring", "this is too hard", "this is useless", "remove this and that"...
So yeah, every map will be the same. Then what's the point of mapping? Let's just have the editor making the maps for us.

Again, please think about one/two years ago, guys.

My two cents.
I'm sorry i went off-topic, Jerrysr.

^ only truth ...

Card N'FoRcE wrote:

These new "rules" are getting us nowhere.

Those "rules" were meant to be guidelines to help newbie mappers making "standard" maps and increase their mapping experience.
After aquiring experience, new original maps should come from that mapper.
Instead this happens: maps go against a "rule" and both mappers and BATs don't know what to do.

Please guys, think about one/two years ago.
Everyone made maps quite reasonably without the need of this and you can see what happened after that: playing was fun, many users registered and the community grew a lot in a short period of time.

Instead of stimulating mappers it's almost like the "rules" are forcing them to make maps in a fixed way: "this is not allowed", "this is bad", "this is boring", "this is too hard", "this is useless", "remove this and that"...
So yeah, every map will be the same. Then what's the point of mapping? Let's just have the editor making the maps for us.

Again, please think about one/two years ago, guys.

My two cents.
I'm sorry i went off-topic, Jerrysr.

On the flipside, if we allow maps to get progressively more difficult without restraint (via the way the system used to work), newer players will have nothing solid to play.

The guidelines are not unreasonable. Most of them encompass structural flaws which are outright bad mapping - hidden notes, so on and so forth. The new star system expands the difficulty set to five instead of four, meaning that mappers will have plenty of room to breathe and map things as they like.

Even under that new system, this map still has a ridiculous difficulty spread - three expert difficulties and two hards (not including taiko) is simply not excusable. It just isn't. That effectively isolates nearly three quarters of the playerbase from enjoying this map. The BAT operate in order to make sure that the game stays fun for everybody, not just for the top quartile of players.

Nothing huge has been changed so far, and as thus, the map will remain in stasis until our requests are complied with. masterpiece was unranked for similar reasons, the mapper complied and the set was reranked within two days. Being stubborn about this is silly.

star

EDIT:

OK what jerrysr said, this is the end.

Let the map die with mercy.

Star'd

I don't understand what the fuck is going on in the past few pages but this map is fun as hell and it deserves a rank.

Orkel wrote:

Star'd

I don't understand what the fuck is going on in the past few pages but this map is fun as hell and it deserves a rank.

But the ranking criteria are AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

star'd, great map & great song.

Card N'FoRcE wrote:

These new "rules" are getting us nowhere.

Those "rules" were meant to be guidelines to help newbie mappers making "standard" maps and increase their mapping experience.
After aquiring experience, new original maps should come from that mapper.
Instead this happens: maps go against a "rule" and both mappers and BATs don't know what to do.

Please guys, think about one/two years ago.
Everyone made maps quite reasonably without the need of this and you can see what happened after that: playing was fun, many users registered and the community grew a lot in a short period of time.

Instead of stimulating mappers it's almost like the "rules" are forcing them to make maps in a fixed way: "this is not allowed", "this is bad", "this is boring", "this is too hard", "this is useless", "remove this and that"...
So yeah, every map will be the same. Then what's the point of mapping? Let's just have the editor making the maps for us.

Again, please think about one/two years ago, guys.

My two cents.
I'm sorry i went off-topic, Jerrysr.

Totally agreed with that one.
Mapping is like a design. Are there any rules in design? Obviously no. There are basics and concepts, but no rules.
All those "Remove that" ''Remove this" "This is ugly" "Blahblahblah" just takes fun out of mapping and makes it so ordinar and all maps come up all the same I'm not saying ''We shouldn't have any rules!", I just wish mappers could have a little bit more freedom...

And I don't understand why people who don't even play the game or make maps are BATs???

uhhh Have heard much about Evans issue. But I didn't read the thread Orz
OK now I read this. Here's my comment. Sorry if this confuses you orz

First, about deepsea relaxing and hard.......
We need lower star rating for short maps.
Like Alace mentioned, when there's only 1 note on a map, star rating is............ lol
So,
Hard can't be considered as "Insane"
Why? Because break time sucks so many star ratings. That's why most of TV size insanes are 5.00 stars although they're like hard.
deepsea relaxing and Hard are good/enough difficulties.

But there are 3 Insanes already lol
How about making Ign's another as "CTB difficulty?"

I'm strongly against about this new rule. But as long as I'm the part of whole team, maybe I should accept new rules now.

But At Least
As many people mentioned before,
Luigi updated about "no more 2 insane / Setting minium diffculty as 3 star" rules on April 5 on Pending beatmaps forum.
That means any kind of diffculty issue can't be applied until that day.
But unranked on April 3rd?
Even judge can't punish criminals if there's no appropriate rule.
This is contradiction.
I would have accepted this camly if this map had unranked due to hidden notes.
But the truth is,this map got unranked due to diff problem, not hidden notes.
It is no use speaking about hidden notes after this map got unranked. Unranked reason is just diff problem.

And Next,
We tend not to unranking maps for minor issue(I define major issues as "unsnapped notes/wrong BPM)
This map got unranked, although 2 days had already passed. This is horribly bad. Do you think 2 day is such a short period so it can be unranked?
Actually, this map gained lots of play counts so it can't be unranked.

Well I ranked taka's H/I map on the end of March.
But BAT you guys warned me because there's difficulty disscussion thread on MOD LOUNGE but not on beatmap ranking criteria.
The map had been bubbled for almost 4 weeks. But how could I said mapper like "Make an easier diffulcty sorry"?

And recently, Diffculty-based AI-modding..... just orz

@@For Chinese users sorry for making this thread dirty. Apologizes about that ><
And sorry Jerry, I should have re-ranked this when you had requested before Orz
I found no reason why this map can't get reranked. Why did you give up? lol
If you can use Chinese and everyone understands that, will you give up about this map?
Please think about it one more time, If you can use Chinese and everyone understands that, will you give up about this map?
I think you guys wouldn't give up if you could have spoken your opinions to BATs freely.
Don't surrender due to language barrier.
I will rank this...... if the map is bubbled. Although there's a possibilty that I can be cut from BAT team ahahaha
Just get one more BAT who agrees with me



If this map's difficulty was E/H/I/I/I/Taiko I(Before unranked)
Would Eph unranked this?
This map is acutally E/H/I/I/I/Taiko I because the map is short

Ahh very long post btw, I have to study English more lol.....

minyeob wrote:

SPOILER

uhhh Have heard much about Evans issue. But I didn't read the thread Orz
OK now I read this. Here's my comment. Sorry if this confuses you orz

First, about deepsea relaxing and hard.......
We need lower star rating for short maps.
Like Alace mentioned, when there's only 1 note on a map, star rating is............ lol
So,
Hard can't be considered as "Insane"
Why? Because break time sucks so many star ratings. That's why most of TV size insanes are 5.00 stars although they're like hard.
deepsea relaxing and Hard are good/enough difficulties.

But there are 3 Insanes already lol
How about making Ign's another as "CTB difficulty?"

I'm strongly against about this new rule. But as long as I'm the part of whole team, maybe I should accept new rules now.

But At Least
As many people mentioned before,
Luigi updated about "no more 2 insane / Setting minium diffculty as 3 star" rules on April 5 on Pending beatmaps forum.
That means any kind of diffculty issue can't be applied until that day.
But unranked on April 3rd?
Even judge can't punish criminals if there's no appropriate rule.
This is contradiction.
I would have accepted this camly if this map had unranked due to hidden notes.
But the truth is,this map got unranked due to diff problem, not hidden notes.
It is no use speaking about hidden notes after this map got unranked. Unranked reason is just diff problem.

And Next,
We tend not to unranking maps for minor issue(I define major issues as "unsnapped notes/wrong BPM)
This map got unranked, although 2 days had already passed. This is horribly bad. Do you think 2 day is such a short period so it can be unranked?
Actually, this map gained lots of play counts so it can't be unranked.

Well I ranked taka's H/I map on the end of March.
But BAT you guys warned me because there's difficulty disscussion thread on MOD LOUNGE but not on beatmap ranking criteria.
The map had been bubbled for almost 4 weeks. But how could I said mapper like "Make an easier diffulcty sorry"?

And recently, Diffculty-based AI-modding..... just orz

@@For Chinese users sorry for making this thread dirty. Apologizes about that ><
And sorry Jerry, I should have re-ranked this when you had requested before Orz
I found no reason why this map can't get reranked. Why did you give up? lol
If you can use Chinese and everyone understands that, will you give up about this map?
Please think about it one more time, If you can use Chinese and everyone understands that, will you give up about this map?
I think you guys wouldn't give up if you could have spoken your opinions to BATs freely.
Don't surrender due to language barrier.
I will rank this...... if the map is bubbled. Although there's a possibilty that I can be cut from BAT team ahahaha
Just get one more BAT who agrees with me



If this map's difficulty was E/H/I/I/I/Taiko I(Before unranked)
Would Eph unranked this?
This map is acutally E/H/I/I/I/Taiko I because the map is short

Ahh very long post btw, I have to study English more lol.....

The sad thing is, a 2007 star system seems more convictive then all of evans mappers, players and modders.

2007 system, 2010.4.1 rank, 2010.4.3 unrank and 2010.4.5 guideline.

The soap opera isn't end yet then we see 2010.4.17 blood.

I don't think I can hold this either if I were Jerry.


What I want to say was already said, I don't know its my English sucks badly or I am not welcomed.

Sorry everyone who likes this song and map, I can't do nothing more. I have nothing to say, the weather is so good hahahaha.

Don't fret, I've finished modding.

(Yes, please regard this mod post only while disregarding Remmy's modding due to it not fulfilling the criteria of "map improvements" as he had claimed it to be)

I only see one correction you need to do, but which you'll need to spend a while doing. Don't alter the map, because they're fine as is to me. No hidden note bullshit. It's just fine, if tough.

However, for the sake of the players, please do add speed-up and slow-down STORYBOARD prompts. This at least gives them an idea of when to relax and when to work it up like a mad (yet) dexterous bull, which I feel is only fair.

Other than that, the maps are perfectly fine and fulfill the criteria currently required to rank a mapset.

Jerrysr's Insane is earmarked for approval as it is X-level and not I-level.

Any BAT other than Remmy is welcome to challenge my overrule against Remmy's mod post, provided solid reasoning beyond personal judgment that is acceptable to all mappers involved in this mapset.

Pasonia wrote:

(Yes, please regard this mod post only while disregarding Remmy's modding due to it not fulfilling the criteria of "map improvements" as he had claimed it to be)

Thanks Pas. Thanks a lot.

That's funny. I felt that ignore's another was the harder one.

Speaking of that difficulty:

00:46:211 (3), 00:47:995 (4) - Don't use speed changes on sliders that have no visible difference whatsoever from the other sliders in the vicinity.

Pasonia wrote:

(Yes, please regard this mod post only while disregarding Remmy's modding due to it not fulfilling the criteria of "map improvements" as he had claimed it to be)

I only see one correction you need to do, but which you'll need to spend a while doing. Don't alter the map, because they're fine as is to me. No hidden note bullshit. It's just fine, if tough.

I disagree.

Nobody on this team is in a position to override anybody else - superfluous title or otherwise. You can refute or disagree, but overruling his perfectly valid input and completely disregarding his expertise has made me lose what little iota of respect I had left for you. We are all equal on this team and possessing a largely superfluous title does not change that fact, as has been mentioned many times before.

The fact that you pass personal judgement of your own then ask for 'solid reasoning' to refute it is the most sickening case of hypocrisy I think I've ever seen from a member of this community. Who are you to pass your opinions as the word of god?

I became a part of this team under the impression that we would be working together as a team in order to help make this game better. I wasn't aware that team members had specific weight evaluated to their opinions regardless of the fact that they hold the position all the same.

Regardless, all levels of this bullshit does not get this map re-ranked any faster. The conditions for re-rank have been clearly outlined by peppy himself here (viewtopic.php?p=370140#p370140) - what the mapper has to do is exceedingly obvious and any further effort spent on this map by any party is a waste of time. peppy will be the one to re-rank this, not any of us.

Drop this shit and move on. It is up to Jerrysr to fix this and if he is not prepared to implement the fixes required, then let the map rest in peace.

Ephemeral wrote:

Regardless, all levels of this bullshit does not get this map re-ranked any faster. The conditions for re-rank have been clearly outlined by peppy himself here (viewtopic.php?p=370140#p370140) - what the mapper has to do is exceedingly obvious and any further effort spent on this map by any party is a waste of time. peppy will be the one to re-rank this, not any of us.

Drop this shit and move on. It is up to Jerrysr to fix this and if he is not prepared to implement the fixes required, then let the map rest in peace.

But those errors were taken care of? Also most of remmys mod post is style suggestions, and they aren't exactly neccessary to change....

Also if anything, jerry's diff is probably the easiest one out of the insane diffs, so it should go for rank tbh lol.

Meh, the mappers will to continue on this map has been killed. It feels like at a point this map was not being helped at all, but rather massacred to try and prove a point.

WOW a team
i don`t really nottice that you guys are a team
just put this map away
and handle 20 pages pending maps

I became a part of this team under the impression that we would be working together as a team in order to help make this game better.
lol this is funny

bad apple = E H I I I

oh, yes.

Blue Dragon wrote:

bad apple = E H I I I

oh, yes.

the point is
that map`s timing is fucking off

BAT as a TEAM? more like BAT as 3-4 teams...

how can BAT be a ONE team if half of BATS ganks on one single bat for not doing his "job" because of RL reasons...

Is it me or does this map need +10ms?

Ignore's:

This is the hard difficulty, no doubt. I can hardly keep up.
00:46:211 (3) - You can't do this. There's no way to tell that it's a .5x BPM slider during play.
00:47:995 (4) - Same as above.
00:49:941 (4) - This note is hidden.

fnia's:

The pacing on this map as a whole is very sporadic. It'll go at a certain pace for a little bit, then it'll go about twice as fast for 1-4 beats. I don't feel like I'm playing the song so much as I'm trying my hardest to figure out what is going to come next. In short, it lacks flow.

Jerry's:

00:51:886 (2) - Make this have 4 points IMO.
01:21:886 (1) - Does this spot in particular need to be a jump? Feels kind of weird having such a jump when song transitions to a softer part.

Hard:

What the hell is up with these difficulty settings?

OD 6
The others you can adjust. HP drain needs to be raised. Circle size could go 1 smaller if you want.

00:49:129 (5,6,7) - Why the slight jump? Move it a bit closer. If you're worried about the stacking, just move it down then right 1 grid each after distance snapping it (or however you determined distance)
To be honest though, if you are worrying about the stacking like that, you may consider doing the same to 00:50:426 (5,6,7) - (down right 1 gird each)


Relaxing:

Not much i can say except "lol 0 HP drain" and the lack of volume on some of the hitsounds bugs me tremendously.

Cyclone wrote:

Hard:

What the hell is up with these difficulty settings?

OD 6
The others you can adjust. HP drain needs to be raised. Circle size could go 1 smaller if you want.

Relaxing:

Not much i can say except "lol 0 HP drain" and the lack of volume on some of the hitsounds bugs me tremendously.

That's my bad, feel free to revert it.

OK I will take this if Jerrysr gave it up and if he want me to do it, and of course if all lames are finished.

Tough one, keep it up

maybe rank this as "Approved"?
My first place in ignore's Another D:
Of cours Star+ Don't GIVE UP!

触果不要放弃 :3

wtf
只要開心玩就好
只要爽就好
不想要求那麼多 :3

反正蘋果也放棄了
就把我的難度弄得更簡單(茶
have fun

Ephemeral wrote:

Nobody on this team is in a position to override anybody else - superfluous title or otherwise. You can refute or disagree, but overruling his perfectly valid input and completely disregarding his expertise has made me lose what little iota of respect I had left for you. We are all equal on this team and possessing a largely superfluous title does not change that fact, as has been mentioned many times before.

The fact that you pass personal judgement of your own then ask for 'solid reasoning' to refute it is the most sickening case of hypocrisy I think I've ever seen from a member of this community. Who are you to pass your opinions as the word of god?

Well, if Remmy's mod doesn't fit the map improvement criteria as Pasonia has said, then couldn't it be overruled? If it couldn't it'd be kind of funny, since you yourself overruled your own team when you unranked this map.

Starred, and I hope this gets solved soon.

20m4t4r wrote:

Ephemeral wrote:

Nobody on this team is in a position to override anybody else - superfluous title or otherwise. You can refute or disagree, but overruling his perfectly valid input and completely disregarding his expertise has made me lose what little iota of respect I had left for you. We are all equal on this team and possessing a largely superfluous title does not change that fact, as has been mentioned many times before.

The fact that you pass personal judgement of your own then ask for 'solid reasoning' to refute it is the most sickening case of hypocrisy I think I've ever seen from a member of this community. Who are you to pass your opinions as the word of god?

Well, if Remmy's mod doesn't fit the map improvement criteria as Pasonia has said, then couldn't it be overruled? If it couldn't it'd be kind of funny, since you yourself overruled your own team when you unranked this map.

Starred, and I hope this gets solved soon.

he does have a point there

where's the love

20m4t4r wrote:

Well, if Remmy's mod doesn't fit the map improvement criteria as Pasonia has said, then couldn't it be overruled? If it couldn't it'd be kind of funny, since you yourself overruled your own team when you unranked this map.

Starred, and I hope this gets solved soon.

In Pasonia's opinion, Remmy's advice does not fit. Do note the important bit: "opinion".

This map was unranked over imperative issues, not subjective ones. If I had unranked this over subjective issues then yes, I would not exactly be practicing what I preach.

This shit is seriously better than Korean soaps.

Ephemeral wrote:

20m4t4r wrote:

Well, if Remmy's mod doesn't fit the map improvement criteria as Pasonia has said, then couldn't it be overruled? If it couldn't it'd be kind of funny, since you yourself overruled your own team when you unranked this map.

Starred, and I hope this gets solved soon.

In Pasonia's opinion, Remmy's advice does not fit. Do note the important bit: "opinion".

This map was unranked over imperative issues, not subjective ones. If I had unranked this over subjective issues then yes, I would not exactly be practicing what I preach.

wait, but isn't what you unranked it for opinionated? Doesn't it take someone's OPINION to say if a map has a bad difficulty spread.

Ephemeral wrote:

Unranked due to.. god do I even need to explain why?

Seriously, N I I I I I spread should be gunning for approval, not for ranking. This is just a waste of time.

Isn't should be an opinionated phrase

Ephemeral wrote:

I meant no disrespect with my statements. We have a set of rules we must follow when ranking maps, and based off my judgement, said rules were not precisely followed when this map was ranked.

What do we have here? Oh its another opinion
according to Merriam-Webster, judgement is defined as this: "a formal utterance of an authoritative opinion", " the process of forming an opinion or evaluation by discerning and comparing b : an opinion or estimate so formed"

So what you are saying is:
- It is okay to override abalee based off your OPINIONS, yet you say it isn't okay for Pasonia to override Remmy

Shouldn't unranks be based off concrete evidence.

Difficulty obsessed BATs....

It's funny

Star.

ouranhshc wrote:

words

I suppose you're right. In hindsight my actions are really no better than what I went out and condemned Pasonia for.

They have prevented anything like this from ever happening again, though.

Anyway, more discussion on the matter is just pointless. Thread will be reopened once the map is reranked, which rests entirely on Jerrysr. He knows what he has to do.

It's been a long many months and I figure it's long overdue to see this map actually ranked - if the mapper is willing to simply drop a single insane difficulty (since I believe the issues with the other difficulties/skin were addressed in the beginning) now that the guidelines have been firmly stamped out for this sort of thing.

srsly..