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Metadata Discussion/Clarification

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Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze
Hello there, I have a question about romanization of title in one of my sets.

The set: https://osu.ppy.sh/b/829077

So, the original title has been confirmed already (source), it's トゥー・チー・チェン シークレットカクレンジャー TEKINA Remix
The question I have tho is how should it be romanized? I've asked Loctav about it and:


so I'd be thankful if someone Japanese of fluent in Japanese would confirm that for me.
Gamu
Elite Mapper
2,606 posts
Joined December 2010
Gamu
I think "トゥー・チー・チェン" means "都志见(dou1 zhi4 jian4)", and it is the Chinese pronunciation.

http://www.jcdic.com/search.php?pagenum=14&up=1&lang=&searchtext=%E9%83%BD

Unfortunately I cannot read the Chinese, so I don't know correct romanization....
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze
shionelove brought up a good point in the thread (https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/4842049)
The トゥー・チー・チェン is the "artist",都志見 隆's another name, we just happened to misunderstand the soundcloud title due to not knowing Japanese and thought that's just title and artist is labeled as DJ'TEKINA//SOMETHING when it was both original artist and title in the song name. Due to that I've changed the artist and title accordingly and that should be correct now.
IamKwaN
osu! Alumni
3,905 posts
Joined August 2012
IamKwaN
Yea, what shionelove said makes sense.
Also, I have an opinion on the romanisation of the artist. How about just romanising it as "Tou Chi Chen"? As the name is replicating a Chinese name and Chinese people normally have their Chinese names translated without hyphens, e.g. 姚明 > Yao Ming or 劉翔 > Liu Xiang.

Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze
Thanks for the feedback! It's all good now.
KSHR
Global Moderator
1,668 posts
Joined July 2010
KSHR
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/400859


The original song title is,
Unicode: とある小国のお姫様が、会ったこともない兄の家にやってきて住みついた事情。
Romaji: Toaru Shoukoku no Ohimesama ga, Atta koto mo nai Ani no Ie ni Yattekite Sumitsuita Jijou.


Some of you guys might realize what I'd ask here..
Apparently the mapper, Lami can't upload the map due to BSS error that says the title is too long. For now, the map has been submitted with the omitted title, Toaru Shoukoku no Ohimesama ga... However since we have never experienced the error caused by the title, I'm also unsure if it's allowed.


How do you think we should handle this?
IamKwaN
osu! Alumni
3,905 posts
Joined August 2012
IamKwaN
The limitation of osu! is going to stand for a while, so we can only get rid of the error by altering the title, something similar to the Artist.

Ways that can shorten the title is either deleting or paraphrasing the title to something with fewer characters. The latter method seems conflicting with the ranking criteria to a greater extent. So, what I suggested several days ago to Lami was submitting the title before the "、", on both Unicode and Romanised Titles. Is it a sentence fragment or does it make sense if we cut it half? Any other alternatives? As I can hardly think of some other ways to make it shorter because of my superficial knowledge of the Japanese language.
KSHR
Global Moderator
1,668 posts
Joined July 2010
KSHR
Oh I didn't know you talked with him. Well I also can't think of other ways to make the title shorter other than cutting it like you said.
The title shortened by cutting the original half is "お姫様が、/Ohimesama ga," which is just the subject (= It's a sentence fragment, yes). However since it includes the particle がput after the subject, at least we Japanese can easily understand that it's a part of the sentence.
In conclusion, I'd say the current title "お姫様が... / Ohimesama ga.." should be the best.

I'm not the one who can make a decision. However if there is no objection, I'd tell the mapper and other BNs who will check the map that the current title is fine.


Thanks for your quick response, KwaN.
IamKwaN
osu! Alumni
3,905 posts
Joined August 2012
IamKwaN
I have an inquiry about the suffixes of songs.

Note: All the screenshots are from official sites.
  1. https://osu.ppy.sh/s/410476

    There is a typo in this screenshot, the title should be Melty Moment (having a space in between) according to this from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDVQlY7A2ig or this from http://www.ceui.jp/disco/.
    Do we use "Melty Moment short.ver" or "Melty Moment" as the Title?
    　
  2. https://osu.ppy.sh/s/390807

    "言葉のいらない約束" or "言葉のいらない約束 TVサイズ? Probably we won't use the title from iTunes, レコチョク & mora, as they aren't official.
    　
  3. https://osu.ppy.sh/s/225202 & https://osu.ppy.sh/s/162996

    "killy killy JOKER" or "killy killy JOKER TV size"?
I hope a conclusion can be drawn so that we do not hesitate to use suffixes for songs in these cases. Thank you!
Fycho
Global Moderator
2,479 posts
Joined August 2012
Fycho
Suffixes should be used as it's provided by the official site, and we already add these suffixes after title sometimes.

1. Melty Moment short.ver
2. The official admits releases from iTunes, レコチョク & mora, so all are fine. And https://osu.ppy.sh/s/313239
3. killy killy JOKER TV size

Just my thoughts.
IamKwaN
osu! Alumni
3,905 posts
Joined August 2012
IamKwaN

Fycho wrote:

Suffixes should be used as it's provided by the official site, and we already add these suffixes after title sometimes.

1. Melty Moment short.ver
2. The official admits releases from iTunes, レコチョク & mora, so all are fine. And https://osu.ppy.sh/s/313239
3. killy killy JOKER TV size

Just my thoughts.
I do agree we can use suffix for all the above maps.

However, for the second song, which suffix (言葉のいらない約束 TVサイズ or 言葉のいらない約束(TV size)) do we prefer? Do you mean if the official websites link iTunes, レコチョク or any other similar sites, the suffix should be treated as official? That means Amazon is acceptable too.
SPOILER

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/313239 - This map actually has a wrong metadata, there's no space in between.
SPOILER




Fycho
Global Moderator
2,479 posts
Joined August 2012
Fycho
Yes, 言葉のいらない約束 TVサイズ and 言葉のいらない約束(TV size) both are accpetable imo, it's not a reason to dq such stuffs.

If official site provides other sites, then these title are all choosable.
IamKwaN
osu! Alumni
3,905 posts
Joined August 2012
IamKwaN

Fycho wrote:

If official site provides other sites, then these title are all choosable.
Any objection on this? As it's a fresh concept that I have never heard of, probably different from or even contradicted to the standard of official references we quoted in the past.
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Monstrata
You can't really measure the official-ness of a site. If both sites are official, but their metadata differs, you should be able to use either one because in both cases you would be quoting from an official source. Whichever you choose, you will misquote from the other source, and saying one source is more accurate than another is often subjective.
IamKwaN
osu! Alumni
3,905 posts
Joined August 2012
IamKwaN
We are not measuring the official-ness of a site, we are simply determining if a site is official or not. It is a yes-or-no question, instead of a quantitative issue.
Everything found on official sites is acceptable as the metadata of the song. So, we are discussing whether iTunes or Amazon is official.
For your information, the reason why we did not treat them as valid official references is p/3341872 .
neonat
Beatmap Nominator
3,528 posts
Joined April 2012
neonat
As much as possible, refrain from using information from shops as much as possible, unless totally impossible to obtain elsewhere, like no official post or page elsewhere, even a forum post from the artist or something as official as that would be better.
DakeDekaane
osu! Alumni
3,500 posts
Joined February 2012
DakeDekaane
Official website/CD prints gets priority here. Online shops tend to alter them for aesthetics/description purposes mostly.

But it should be noted you can't take official websites literally. For KwaN's last example, it should be easy to note.


Is the second song called "realize -夢の待つ場所- Full size ＆ TV size"? No, it just means the song is present in both Full size and TV Size. That's how brackets should be interpreted. It doesn't tell you the exact title.
neonat
Beatmap Nominator
3,528 posts
Joined April 2012
neonat
CDJapan made me laugh with this haha

IamKwaN
osu! Alumni
3,905 posts
Joined August 2012
IamKwaN
Almost forgot about this thread.

About this map (Bubbled already), I am not sure about the romanisation of the title.
  1. According to alacat and Satellite, the romanisation should be Iro wa Nioedo Chirinuru o.
  2. According to Wafu, the romanisation should be Iro wa Nio e do Chiri Nuru o.
Does anyone have any idea how 色は匂へど 散りぬるを should be romanised?

I got an answer already, please let me know if you have interest in it.
Sonnyc
7,753 posts
Joined June 2008
Sonnyc
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/160528 Help classics please.

http://www.jsbach.org/bwv1007.html
http://imslp.org/wiki/Cello_Suite_No.1_ ... Sebastian)
http://www.nordicartistsmanagement.com/ ... deen-cello

Some sources that I've researched for the title, but not sure what the exact title should be.

Heeeelp Thank you Lanturn.
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