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HR to improve AIM suitable?

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44
Sancteria
94 posts
Joined April 2014
Topic Starter
Sancteria
Hey guys,

I am currently playing 5 Star maps, can fc 4,5 Star maps and try to improve myself in another way than simply playing 5 star maps.

Since I´m against using DT, I wanted to ask if AR 10 and also HR will improve my general aim since the circles become smaller as well as the AR rate is much higher than AR9.
Also, should I play HR with my usual maps I play or should I take easier maps? I feel really bad after practicing HR with 3,5 star maps and after that playing my 5 star maps.

Would be nice if some ppl could give me a short answer :D
chainpullz
2,334 posts
Joined June 2013
chainpullz
AR10 won't increase your aim at all. If anything it might increase your snapping speed but this is only the case really if your snapping speed is abnormally slow (most people snap fast enough for ar10, they just struggle to mentally recognize rhythms etc.). Editing maps to cs5 will improve your aim (oh the horrors, you wont get pp even if you do well! *sarcasm*). The only maps you are probably capable of playing with HR are the ones that are simple enough that reading isn't an issue and those maps wont really do much for your aim even with HR. If you want to play HR you will probably end up doing it on easier maps (3.5*ish) where the main benefit would be accuracy.
[-Cloud-]
438 posts
Joined June 2013
[-Cloud-]
Yes, HR will improve your aim. A lot.
And as a little extra you get good accuracy.
chainpullz
2,334 posts
Joined June 2013
chainpullz

[-Cloud-] wrote:

Yes, HR will improve your aim. A lot.
And as a little extra you get a good accuracy.
This is assuming you are actually good enough to play HR on difficult enough songs. Based on the situation of the OP I would not recommend it for anything more than improving accuracy. Your aim will of course increase if you continue on to playing HR on more and more difficult songs but you aren't at the point where it will make a noticeable difference.
[-Cloud-]
438 posts
Joined June 2013
[-Cloud-]
Has nothing to do with it. Everyone sucked at HR first, since you have to manage a lot things at the same time. After a week you get used to it and wont play everything with a C or below.
cheezstik
1,005 posts
Joined October 2013
cheezstik
I don't think CS5.2 is necessarily enough to require much better aim by itself. I have shit-tier aim and when playing HR, CS5.2 isn't a problem. Most of the problem is the OD9+ and the AR10. Play maps with fast, complex patterns and jumps to improve aim.

For reference, my tablet area is slightly smaller than average, and CS6 maps are usually pretty difficult for me.
[-Cloud-]
438 posts
Joined June 2013
[-Cloud-]

cheezstik wrote:

I don't think CS5.2 is necessarily enough to require much better aim by itself. I have shit-tier aim and when playing HR, CS5.2 isn't a problem. Most of the problem is the OD9+ and the AR10. Play maps with fast, complex patterns and jumps to improve aim.

For reference, my tablet area is slightly smaller than average, and CS6 maps are usually pretty difficult for me.
Define "average".
cheezstik
1,005 posts
Joined October 2013
cheezstik

[-Cloud-] wrote:

cheezstik wrote:

I don't think CS5.2 is necessarily enough to require much better aim by itself. I have shit-tier aim and when playing HR, CS5.2 isn't a problem. Most of the problem is the OD9+ and the AR10. Play maps with fast, complex patterns and jumps to improve aim.

For reference, my tablet area is slightly smaller than average, and CS6 maps are usually pretty difficult for me.
Define "average".
I don't have a proper source on this, but mine is smaller than most people from this thread, as well as most high rank players (judging from their liveplays).

This is the area of my ctl470:

[-Cloud-]
438 posts
Joined June 2013
[-Cloud-]
This is supersmall. I can't really believe that people are playing a little bigger average. D:
cheezstik
1,005 posts
Joined October 2013
cheezstik

[-Cloud-] wrote:

This is supersmall. I can't really believe that people are playing a little bigger average. D:
Well regardless of what the average actually is, I just mentioned having a small area cos smaller areas objectively make higher CS more difficult.
chainpullz
2,334 posts
Joined June 2013
chainpullz

cheezstik wrote:

I don't think CS5.2 is necessarily enough to require much better aim by itself. I have shit-tier aim and when playing HR, CS5.2 isn't a problem. Most of the problem is the OD9+ and the AR10. Play maps with fast, complex patterns and jumps to improve aim.

For reference, my tablet area is slightly smaller than average, and CS6 maps are usually pretty difficult for me.
If cs5.2 isn't the problem then aim isn't the problem, your inability to read ar10 is. Increasing your ability to read ar10 won't help your aim. Also, if you start playing an overwhelming amount of ar10 you will start to struggle to read ar9. If your issue is just that you can't read then yeah, play fast/complex patterns.
cheezstik
1,005 posts
Joined October 2013
cheezstik

chainpullz wrote:

cheezstik wrote:

I don't think CS5.2 is necessarily enough to require much better aim by itself. I have shit-tier aim and when playing HR, CS5.2 isn't a problem. Most of the problem is the OD9+ and the AR10. Play maps with fast, complex patterns and jumps to improve aim.

For reference, my tablet area is slightly smaller than average, and CS6 maps are usually pretty difficult for me.
If cs5.2 isn't the problem then aim isn't the problem, your inability to read ar10 is. Increasing your ability to read ar10 won't help your aim. Also, if you start playing an overwhelming amount of ar10 you will start to struggle to read ar9. If your issue is just that you can't read then yeah, play fast/complex patterns.
lolwut, it's almost like I myself mentioned the problem being AR10 in my post, and not the CS (aim). My point was, if someone with bad aim can play CS5.2, then it probably won't be that good for improving aim, so HR as a whole pretty much won't be, since OD and AR improve accuracy and reading respectively.
chainpullz
2,334 posts
Joined June 2013
chainpullz
I repeat, if you can play cs5.2 well, its not your aim that's bad. It's your reading. Clearly you are confused as to what the problem is. Missing a note due to bad aim and due to shitty reading are two entirely different things. It's like saying your accuracy is bad because you get 75% on a complex map but can get perfects on OD10 on less complex maps. Obviously you just suck at reading and it has less to do with the other stuff.
cheezstik
1,005 posts
Joined October 2013
cheezstik
I don't think you understand, my aim is bad and I can play CS5.2, so I'm saying you don't need a good aim to play it. I already said that the problem with HR is OD and AR, and said that they are related to accuracy and reading, I don't see why you need to tell me I suck at HR cos I suck at reading when I already (indirectly) acknowledged it.
Dexus
982 posts
Joined July 2009
Dexus
If you want to improve aim it would be better to play maps where circles are physically further instead of just th circles being smaller. So play a higher star rating with lower BPM
RaneFire
1,181 posts
Joined May 2011
RaneFire

chainpullz wrote:

Also, if you start playing an overwhelming amount of ar10 you will start to struggle to read ar9.
Only a problem if you start playing HR and only HR, without being able to read it that well first. The compensatory method becomes "reaction" and that feeds itself into your ability to play lower AR's. If you can read AR10 (a pretty high bar, I might add), there is no harm done to your ability to play lower AR's. Because you apply a very similar method of reading.

cheezstik wrote:

I don't think you understand, my aim is bad and I can play CS5.2, so I'm saying you don't need a good aim to play it.
You need to clarify on it being your aim precision that is bad, otherwise, what is it? What part of your aim is bad? You play DT, and this is something that DT players suffer from because it does not increase CS, and most maps played with DT are CS4. 5.2 is not that hard either, since there's enough CS5 maps to keep you in the loop. You will learn aim speed and aim transition speed with DT, but it will not teach you to be more precise. For that you need to play HR on CS5 maps. Are you saying you are bad at the things DT requires?

If AR is the problem, then that's just not being able to read it properly. AR's effect on aim is the reduction in time you have to think about your aim.
cheezstik
1,005 posts
Joined October 2013
cheezstik

RaneFire wrote:

cheezstik wrote:

I don't think you understand, my aim is bad and I can play CS5.2, so I'm saying you don't need a good aim to play it.
You need to clarify on it being your aim precision that is bad, otherwise, what is it? What part of your aim is bad? You play DT, and this is something that DT players suffer from because it does not increase CS, and most maps played with DT are CS4. 5.2 is not that hard either, since there's enough CS5 maps to keep you in the loop. You will learn aim speed and aim transition speed with DT, but it will not teach you to be more precise. For that you need to play HR on CS5 maps. Are you saying you are bad at the things DT requires?

If AR is the problem, then that's just not being able to read it properly. AR's effect on aim is the reduction in time you have to think about your aim.
All of it, my aim is generally bad overall. I don't think anyone with enough general experience in the game actually has trouble with CS5.2, the only cause of this would probably be ridiculously high DPI or an absolutely tiny area. I clearly don't train aim and have had bad aim for as long as I can remember, and CS5.2 makes minimal difference to me compared to CS4. Forget me being a DT player, I could be an EZ player and I would probably still be able to play CS5.2 just as well.
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Vuelo Eluko

chainpullz wrote:

AR10 won't increase your aim at all. If anything it might increase your snapping speed but this is only the case really if your snapping speed is abnormally slow (most people snap fast enough for ar10, they just struggle to mentally recognize rhythms etc.). Editing maps to cs5 will improve your aim (oh the horrors, you wont get pp even if you do well! *sarcasm*). The only maps you are probably capable of playing with HR are the ones that are simple enough that reading isn't an issue and those maps wont really do much for your aim even with HR. If you want to play HR you will probably end up doing it on easier maps (3.5*ish) where the main benefit would be accuracy.
i typically hr 4.7-5.1 star maps and go for passes and i find thats good for aim
3.5 is abysmally easy even with hard rock at rank 20k
YukinoDesuDesu
164 posts
Joined April 2012
YukinoDesuDesu
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/509510
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/294610&m=0 + dt ar 9.6 & 10.3
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/321379
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/280632
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/323333
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/160261&m=0 quite easy
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/344332 quite easy
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/399898 + dt ar 10.3 very easy map
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/319795 +dt
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/379038 +dt
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/167300 + dt CS5


Instead of hr you could play map with stuff that is spaced further apart + high bpm stuff thats spaced very close.

https://osu.ppy.sh/b/106474 + dt
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/352698 + dt
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/220665 + dt
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/92071 + dt

hf
otoed1
639 posts
Joined May 2014
otoed1
If you want to practice aim, take the 5 star maps you play, edit them to have 1 higher cs and profit. Same with acc and ar, although ar can screw maps up if the change is to significant. I.e. making a ar7 map ar 10 map will make patterns very weird and awful.
chainpullz
2,334 posts
Joined June 2013
chainpullz

otoed1 wrote:

If you want to practice aim, take the 5 star maps you play, edit them to have 1 higher cs and profit. Same with acc and ar, although ar can screw maps up if the change is to significant. I.e. making a ar7 map ar 10 map will make patterns very weird and awful.
Editing to a different approach rate will just hurt your reading in the end unless you are specifically trying to learn an AR where the maps of that AR are too difficult for you. If you are trying to learn AR10 you might as well just use hardrock. Most of the AR10 maps you would want to play either need HR to be AR10 or will benefit from the more rigorous training that HR requires. This is also the case for AR10.3 since most AR10.3 maps aren't suitable for initially learning the AR. Any other AR has plenty of maps to practice and there is much value to being able to play AR8 and such which tends to have much higher note density.
kevpwns
kevpwns
HR is great for improving accuracy. It could help your aim too but I feel that playing too much HR ruins my ar 9 reading ability
[-Cloud-]
438 posts
Joined June 2013
[-Cloud-]
It does, if you don't play some AR9 between your HR sessions, yes.
Sancteria
94 posts
Joined April 2014
Topic Starter
Sancteria
I figured out that my aim seems to be pretty good, I get high accuracy even in the jump training maps, but I need to practice very fast jumps even more, I figured out another extreme probleme some of us do have, maybe I gonna open another topic for that cause even new players might have that problem.
chainpullz
2,334 posts
Joined June 2013
chainpullz

Sancteria wrote:

I figured out that my aim seems to be pretty good, I get high accuracy even in the jump training maps, but I need to practice very fast jumps even more, I figured out another extreme probleme some of us do have, maybe I gonna open another topic for that cause even new players might have that problem.
TL;DR It was your inability to read fast/complex patterns that was causing misses and not actually your aim. Glad we came to this realization.
Sancteria
94 posts
Joined April 2014
Topic Starter
Sancteria
no I don´t get confused by difficult patterns, it´s a little bit different.

Nvm, I just created a CS5 training map to all my maps I usually play and didn´t fc yet, after I practiced a bit with these, I played the usual map, and I get dramatically better scores, it does work freaking great, the problem is, in the editor, it says it´s the latest ranked map, but I don´t get any PP for the UNMODOFIED map, does it mean that I have to clone the whole folder so I can still get PP for the unmodified map and still can practice with CS5 modified maps?
Sancteria
94 posts
Joined April 2014
Topic Starter
Sancteria
ok, it´s a little bit strange, after finishing the map, it doesn´t say that I got any PP, but after 5 minutes I get the PP and the user page also says that I got more PP...seems laggy but still working so I can keep it :D

Wouldn´t it be better to set my "training maps" to CS6 to get even better results?
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny

chainpullz wrote:

otoed1 wrote:

If you want to practice aim, take the 5 star maps you play, edit them to have 1 higher cs and profit. Same with acc and ar, although ar can screw maps up if the change is to significant. I.e. making a ar7 map ar 10 map will make patterns very weird and awful.
Editing to a different approach rate will just hurt your reading in the end unless you are specifically trying to learn an AR where the maps of that AR are too difficult for you. If you are trying to learn AR10 you might as well just use hardrock. Most of the AR10 maps you would want to play either need HR to be AR10 or will benefit from the more rigorous training that HR requires. This is also the case for AR10.3 since most AR10.3 maps aren't suitable for initially learning the AR. Any other AR has plenty of maps to practice and there is much value to being able to play AR8 and such which tends to have much higher note density.
I've been playing AR11 exclusively for 3-4 weeks now, and I can still do a lot of maps with EZ mod

stop talking shit unless you've actually tried it. You don't just suddenly forget something you've already learned otherwise you never learned it in the first place. It's tiring seeing 5 digit ranks telling others that learning higher ar is detrimental to lower ar reading.
nooblet
630 posts
Joined December 2011
nooblet
Does this count as a small area

Also, yes HR will improve your aim. It'll also improve your accuracy, 'cuz it won't let you pass most maps without a 95% on OD 9.8+ ... drain is too op ...
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny
square area best area
nooblet
630 posts
Joined December 2011
nooblet

buny wrote:

square area best area
Dungeon uses square too!

buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny
I always imagine people that use square areas, use oblongs as hitcircles
winber1
4,520 posts
Joined February 2010
winber1
i always imagined girls to be 2d in real life
cheezstik
1,005 posts
Joined October 2013
cheezstik
Just imagine that out there somewhere is a parallel universe where they use circle tablet areas and square hitcircles hitsquares.
nooblet
630 posts
Joined December 2011
nooblet

winber1 wrote:

i always imagined girls to be 2d in real life
wait, they're not?
thelewa
3,537 posts
Joined August 2010
thelewa
HR works the same with improving your aim as just simply playing maps that have small circles does

it's probably vastly preferable to just go to the editor and make the circles smaller while keeping the AR at 9 or lower, because then you can focus more on actually practicing aim instead of trying to react at an AR that you probably can't play yet

idk
RaneFire
1,181 posts
Joined May 2011
RaneFire

thelewa wrote:

it's probably vastly preferable to just go to the editor and make the circles smaller while keeping the AR at 9 or lower, because then you can focus more on actually practicing aim instead of trying to react at an AR that you probably can't play yet

idk
I still practice this way personally and all I can say is that developing aim precision specifically is about as slow as improving stream speed or stamina, but it does work to an extent. I suspect that may be because it has to do with reading - like being able to tell how precise you were and why/where you miss etc. So while I wouldn't discount what you're saying, I would omit the word "vastly" since it is still a slow process.
chainpullz
2,334 posts
Joined June 2013
chainpullz
It's vastly preferable to trying to learn AR10, OD10, and practicing aim all at once if your goal is merely to improve your aim. Learning to properly read AR10 takes a long time and if your accuracy isn't good enough you will accrue misses due to bad timing instead of merely bad aim. Since the first step to improving aim is to identify when and why you miss aimed a note it is ideal if all misses were simply due to bad aim.
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