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About FL

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Total Posts
32
sasakura
42 posts
Joined February 2014
Topic Starter
sasakura
I wanted to get into playing flashlight mod, and I've heard a lot its all about memorization, however if this is true why aren't people using this mod on insane maps that are short and use symmetrical patterns? I feel like there might be something else apart from memorization at play...

Im noob, any guidance?
Winshley
osu! Alumni
2,384 posts
Joined May 2011
Winshley
Not many people have the patience to grind the same map over and over again (even if it's shorter than a minute), or people simply hating it completely.
CXu
osu! Alumni
3,558 posts
Joined March 2009
CXu
Because if you don't DT or HR you're a noob.
-sev
875 posts
Joined February 2014
-sev
Ain't nobody got time to memorise maps
Varetyr
794 posts
Joined December 2011
Varetyr
too time-consuming, not really " rewarding" since ppv2 (you know, a lot of players care more about their pp than getting #1s nowadays)


As you can see, a HDFL FC gives about as much PP as a Nomod SS. Sooooo.... Yeah. rip in pepperonis FL
cheezstik
1,005 posts
Joined October 2013
cheezstik
FL in terms of skill and improvement will only really give you good memory, but mostly memory of a single map that you play over and over. Memory isn't necessarily useful, maybe it would let you do very high ar easily, but I haven't really heard of this.

In terms of pp, it also isn't worth it, as the time it takes to memorize a map could be spent doing other maps, or getting better so you can do harder maps.

The best purpose for FL is score, you'll see many #1 ranks on maps with trash accuracy just because they had an extra mod, which was FL, because no one else took the time to memorize that map.
silmarilen
5,579 posts
Joined February 2010
silmarilen
because people want to play a map a handful of times at most and even the simplest maps with FL require some memorization unless you are already good at the mod.
chainpullz
2,334 posts
Joined June 2013
chainpullz
FL also doesn't affect pp at the moment.
Rewben2
996 posts
Joined November 2012
Rewben2

chainpullz wrote:

FL also doesn't affect pp at the moment.
Yes it does. More so than hidden.
sasakura
42 posts
Joined February 2014
Topic Starter
sasakura

Rewben2 wrote:

chainpullz wrote:

FL also doesn't affect pp at the moment.
Yes it does. More so than hidden.
It affects the same as DT right ?
GoldenWolf
2,983 posts
Joined May 2012
GoldenWolf
No...
sasakura
42 posts
Joined February 2014
Topic Starter
sasakura
It has same score multiplier (1.12x) so.. it should be the same..
Drezi
217 posts
Joined January 2014
Drezi
No...
B1rd
2,974 posts
Joined December 2013
B1rd
SCORE =/= pp
Rewben2
996 posts
Joined November 2012
Rewben2

sasakura wrote:

It has same score multiplier (1.12x) so.. it should be the same..
It isn't, though. I don't know the reasoning between flashlight having the same multiplier as double time, but do remember that the mods and their multipliers were released a very long time ago and aren't really subject to change without creating a massive shitstorm.
byfar
1,186 posts
Joined July 2014
byfar

Varetyr wrote:

too time-consuming, not really " rewarding" since ppv2 (you know, a lot of players care more about their pp than getting #1s nowadays)


As you can see, a HDFL FC gives about as much PP as a Nomod SS. Sooooo.... Yeah. rip in pepperonis FL
S A D
Ichi
277 posts
Joined July 2013
Ichi
Dt increases speed and Od so you will obviously get more pp than just having to play with a dark screen.
sasakura
42 posts
Joined February 2014
Topic Starter
sasakura
So FL is only for fun and for ranks I guess? also, is there actually no difference in the pp given with/without FL?
silmarilen
5,579 posts
Joined February 2010
silmarilen

Rewben2 wrote:

chainpullz wrote:

FL also doesn't affect pp at the moment.
Yes it does. More so than hidden.
Ekoro
3,456 posts
Joined March 2010
Ekoro
FL affect a little pp.

Orange got 200 pp for SS on Night of Knights [SOLO], and i got "only" 222 pp for SS FL.
Meanwhile, thelewa got 369 pp for HDHR SS, that's crazy how FL is underrated.

Well, i'm not asking for this to be higher than HDHR because it will always be more impressive, but for example my play should worth 260-270 pp, idk.
This map isn't a good example because it got no spacing, literally.

imo, FL should be improved according to max combo (most of FL are easy if it's <200 combos) or at least number of objects AND spacing (because a non-spaced map is always "easy" to FL... look at DJPop's old maps lol). It should be a little below HR or DT.
Another example: HDHRFL d.m.c (with 97,30) gave me 287 pp, some people are telling me that it should worth 350 or something. I don't know about this since i'm fine with it atm.

tl;dr FL is underrated, please make it better if it's possible
silmarilen
5,579 posts
Joined February 2010
silmarilen
FL being affected by combo is planned, not sure if it will ever get done tho.
it would also be an interesting thing (didnt put much thought into this) to make map difficulty, or just jump difficulty affect the bonus percentage.
chainpullz
2,334 posts
Joined June 2013
chainpullz

Ekoro wrote:

FL affect a little pp.

Orange got 200 pp for SS on Night of Knights [SOLO], and i got "only" 222 pp for SS FL.
Meanwhile, thelewa got 369 pp for HDHR SS, that's crazy how FL is underrated.

Well, i'm not asking for this to be higher than HDHR because it will always be more impressive, but for example my play should worth 260-270 pp, idk.
This map isn't a good example because it got no spacing, literally.

imo, FL should be improved according to max combo (most of FL are easy if it's <200 combos) or at least number of objects AND spacing (because a non-spaced map is always "easy" to FL... look at DJPop's old maps lol). It should be a little below HR or DT.
Another example: HDHRFL d.m.c (with 97,30) gave me 287 pp, some people are telling me that it should worth 350 or something. I don't know about this since i'm fine with it atm.

tl;dr FL is underrated, please make it better if it's possible
SS with HR takes like infinitely better unstable rate though than SS on OD7. That song is also hell. >_<
nrl
1,402 posts
Joined October 2011
nrl

Ekoro wrote:

tl;dr FL is underrated, please make it better if it's possible
Memorization has no place in osu!.
blahpy
297 posts
Joined November 2013
blahpy

Ekoro wrote:

imo, FL should be improved according to max combo
I think this
Varetyr
794 posts
Joined December 2011
Varetyr

Narrill wrote:

Ekoro wrote:

tl;dr FL is underrated, please make it better if it's possible
Memorization has no place in osu!.
But FL has been there since the beginning, and it always rewarded people for their efforts until ppv2. Maybe a bit too much, but right now it's close to nothing considering the amount of effort required, most of the time.
It's like taking candy from a baby, a candy they had for over 5 years, furthermore. Now, what would happen if some people suddenly decide that for some reason, everything you've done for years is actually shit ? Well, most likely, this.

Anyway yeah, the spacing of the map could be buffed a bit (afaik FL jumps are rewarded, not sure about how much though) but the length of the map must be taken into consideration at least. :/
RaneFire
1,181 posts
Joined May 2011
RaneFire
The problem with FL is the idea of using it as an alternative to HR/DT. Short answer: It won't happen.

Under normal circumstances, an FL player who is actually skilled at the game will also have several good non-FL scores giving him pp, because only your most heavily weighted scores matter that much. If you need to remove HR or DT in order to play FL, it should not be worth as much, even in a perfect world where FL is balanced, since FL is a mod you can technically play with HR or DT, given enough effort. The argument should be centered around the effects of FL, not its value as a competitive alternative. It's flawed logic to compare DT to FL, just because their score multiplier's are both 1.12x.

If you want to replace this top category of scores with the viability of playing only FL, you're going to run into problems. Memorisation (FL) is its own category. Playing osu! generally requires so little memorisation it actually becomes negligible to measure as a skill. FL is by itself on this one. You can't justify FL's comparative pp value in any way, because it is so damn subjective.
nrl
1,402 posts
Joined October 2011
nrl

Varetyr wrote:

It's like taking candy from a baby, a candy they had for over 5 years, furthermore.
It's more like telling them they're growing up and should eat something healthier instead. Just because FL has been around since the beginning doesn't mean it should stay around till the end.
darkmiz
407 posts
Joined August 2011
darkmiz
unrank FL or make a seperate scoreboard
Almost
2,154 posts
Joined May 2012
Almost

darkmiz wrote:

unrank FL or make a seperate scoreboard
This. FL is really just a gimmicky mod that's more for show than something you can really fit into a skill based ranking system.

Varetyr wrote:

But FL has been there since the beginning, and it always rewarded people for their efforts until ppv2. Maybe a bit too much, but right now it's close to nothing considering the amount of effort required, most of the time.

It's really silly to think that putting more effort into a score should reward more because it would just make the system even more inaccurate. For example, I can't really imagine having one of my better scores give less pp compared to a map that was easier but simply awarded more because I spent a few hours grinding for it.
CXu
osu! Alumni
3,558 posts
Joined March 2009
CXu
Hello people who don't play FL. Do play FL before talking about FL. Thank you.

No, FL does require skills, that is, mental skill or whatever. If you play a game of memory or something or other, the person who has "trained" or plays the game a lot will win, because they're better at memorization. FL in osu! shows how good a player is at mentally recalling patterns to their memory, and succesfully execute whatever they remember (aka. you'll miss even if you remember the pattern because you only recall the general position of a note).
Also, know how it's hard to do jumps with HD sometimes? It's mostly because the notes disappear, so you have to vaguely remember where that note was with your short-term memory, but you still see the note before it disappears, so most of the time it's not that hard. Same thing applies to FL, except in a lot of cases you won't see the note at all, making jumps even harder.

Obviously, playing FL comes down to grinding, but there is definitely skills involved that can decrease the amount of plays required to pull off the FC.

If this fits within the current pp system which values physical skills, I don't know, but saying FL doesn't take skills is false.

This is probably incoherent rambling, but you probably get the point.
Almost
2,154 posts
Joined May 2012
Almost
Ok I think I should clarify what I mean a little bit. When I say skill based ranking system, I was more alluding the fact that memorization is not something being measured. Memorization in a rhythm game is really just a gimmicky ability and not something that should be rewarded for greatly. I do know that FL requires skill as I used to play it a bit back in the day.
Green Platinum
2,660 posts
Joined July 2011
Green Platinum
FL is for taking first place in noob lobbies since you can't ad DT

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