This is my second shot at this thread. The first try had issues with immaturity and lack of knowledge.

1) I know the difference between a tablet and a trackpad. I understand absolute vs relative mapping. This thread is about gameplay choices not technical differences.

2) If you don't know what you are talking about please don't post. Last thread I had people posting that you were unable to disable acceleration on trackpad and that styluses don't work on trackpads. I currently play on a trackpad with a stylus with acceleration disabled.

With all that said lets begin.

As stated above I play with a trackpad and stylus. I am aware that the majority of players in this game use graphics tablets to play. The only difference between a graphics tablet and a trackpad is absolute vs relative mapping. It has also come to my attention that many players who play with tablets don't lift their pens. They simply hover their pens over their tablets close enough to transmit an electrical signal and tap when they move their pen over a hit circle. If this is a common play style for tablet players and is viable on harder maps then it is not making use of the absolute mapping and there is no difference between that and a trackpad. What I want to ask you guys is wether you play using absolute mapping (during jumps you actually lift your pen up and tap where the next hit circle is rather than drag your pen around) and wether their are any other differences between a tablet and trackpad that I haven't already stated.

I am asking this because I might switch to a tablet if making use of the differences between it and a trackpad is a viable way of playing.

tablets have absolute mapping and people make use of it end of story

You know, it really feels like you got lost somewhere down the road...

It has also come to my attention that many players who play with tablets don't lift their pens.

Except most people do. It's called "hovering".

They simply hover their pens over their tablets close enough to transmit an electrical signal and tap when they move their pen over a hit circle.

So "simply hovering" doesn't count as lifting? Most people don't even tap, they just hover.

If this is a common play style for tablet players and is viable on harder maps then it is not making use of the absolute mapping

Except it is. Absolute tracking has absolutely nothing to do with either hovering or dragging.

What I want to ask you guys is wether you play using absolute mapping (during jumps you actually lift your pen up and tap where the next hit circle is rather than drag your pen around)

Again, whether you drag or hover doesn't matter, the tablet has absolute tracking regardless (as long as you have it set to pen mode).


Not like it matters because now you will most likely tell me I have no clue what I'm talking about.

TorretDunker wrote:

The first try had issues with immaturity and lack of knowledge.

Ha, the good old joke.

You might check koromo's post and see that you're the one lacking knowledge here.

TorretDunker wrote:

If you don't know what you are talking about please don't post.

Well you should probably stop posting then. I mean, if you don't even understand that hovering or not has nothing to do about the tablet's tracking being absolute or not... Yeah.


Hovering = The tip of your pen DON'T touch the tablet
Dragging = The tip of your pen DO touch the tablet

Most people hover, fewer drag, even fewer hover and tap the tip against the tablet when doing jumps, but in the end it doesn't matter what you use as long as;
-The input lag is low/equal to an usual mouse/tablet setup
-You can reach all corners of the screen comfortably
You can become good with pretty much any setup like that, at least aim-wise.

I don't think you realise that when using the pen, the tablet is always absolute positioning. The only time it is relative is in touch mode, which requires you to use it like a laptop touchpad, so no pen, and I always have that mode disabled, because it is easier to let go of my pen and use my mouse. There are high ranking touchpad players I'm pretty sure, but they are rare. I think most will tell you that a tablet is superior, imo it is.

koromo wrote:

Not like it matters because now you will most likely tell me I have no clue what I'm talking about.

Im not going to say you have no clue what your talking about. Unlike the people from the last thread you clearly do know what your talking about. However you, like everyone else, misunderstand my question.

koromo wrote:

So "simply hovering" doesn't count as lifting? Most people don't even tap, they just hover.

By lifting I meant lifting your pen high enough off the tablet that it doesn't transmit a signal to the tablet. Im sorry for my poor choice of words.

koromo wrote:

Again, whether you drag or hover doesn't matter, the tablet has absolute tracking regardless (as long as you have it set to pen mode).

This is where you misunderstand my question. If you are dragging or hovering you aren't making use of the fact that the tablet has absolute tracking. Of course it's still there. You could just be accomplishing the same thing with trackpad.

GoldenWolf wrote:

You might check koromo's post and see that you're the one lacking knowledge here.

Absolutely I lack knowledge. I have no clue what tablet player's playstyle is. That is the point of this thread. To gain knowledge. I do however understand the difference between a tablet and a trackpad. One has absolute mapping. One has relative mapping. I understand this. My interest is if tablet players make use of this.

Please guys. Im not being disrespectful. Im not stupid. I just want to know if i'm achieving the same thing by playing on a trackpad that I would on a tablet. I have received no help so far. Please stop posting just to say I don't know what i'm talking about. Its extremely rude. If anyone would like to help please do, but otherwise stay away.

TorretDunker wrote:

I just want to know if i'm achieving the same thing by playing on a trackpad that I would on a tablet.

If you can modify your touchpad to be absolute as opposed to relative (I'm pretty sure this is possible, I've heard of this before) and play with a stylus like you say, then it will be very similar, the essence of playing a with a tablet. But you are still lacking things like being able to hover which is really important, and you have a very limited area (unless you have a standalone touchpad, but then you should've just bought a tablet).

The advantage of absolute tracking is tracking accuracy.

With a relative tracking device (mouse, or trackpad set into relative tracking mode), the tracking error accumulates each time you move the cursor.

For example: You have configured the mouse/stylus so 3cm of movement moves the cursor 600 pixels; when you move 3 cm in a certain direction, sometimes it moves a few pixels less/more that it should (because the tracking is not perfect, it happens more commonly when moving the device at different speeds, hence this effect is usually called hardware acceleration); those inaccuracies build up during a play of a map (specially long ones), so the position of your hand when pointing at a certain point of the screen changes during the play (so you have to re-adjust your hand by lifting the device during breaks when you play).

The amount of hardware acceleration varies depending on the device, high quality devices have less of it than low quality ones, but they still have it in some degree.

With an an absolute tracking device, the position of the cursor is just a mapping of the position of the pointing device (it doesn't have to detect movement of the device), so this issue doesn't happen.

About tablet vs absolute tracking trackpad, the difference is mainly the quality of the tracking (this depends on the specific devices). Typically, a tablet has a resolution much higher than the screen resolution (meaning it can detect several different positions where the cursor is inside a certain pixel on the screen, and when moving the cursor there isn't any pixel skipped unless you are moving it fast enough to move more than 1 pixel per refresh), while a trackpad can detect way fewer positions (the cursor has to skip pixels to move from one position to another, no matter how fast you move the pointing device).

Thank god at last some people who aren't disrespectful and managed a straight answer.

Full Tablet wrote:

For example: You have configured the mouse/stylus so 3cm of movement moves the cursor 600 pixels; when you move 3 cm in a certain direction, sometimes it moves a few pixels less/more that it should (because the tracking is not perfect, it happens more commonly when moving the device at different speeds, hence this effect is usually called hardware acceleration); those inaccuracies build up during a play of a map (specially long ones), so the position of your hand when pointing at a certain point of the screen changes during the play (so you have to re-adjust your hand by lifting the device during breaks when you play).

I have acceleration disabled on my trackpad.

cheezstik wrote:

TorretDunker wrote:

I just want to know if i'm achieving the same thing by playing on a trackpad that I would on a tablet.

If you can modify your touchpad to be absolute as opposed to relative (I'm pretty sure this is possible, I've heard of this before) and play with a stylus like you say, then it will be very similar, the essence of playing a with a tablet. But you are still lacking things like being able to hover which is really important, and you have a very limited area (unless you have a standalone touchpad, but then you should've just bought a tablet).

Indeed it is possible however it is expensive. The app costs $35
Also you can hover on a trackpad. The ability to hover is present in any capitative touch device because they work off electrical signals rather than pressure. It seems like you need to be quite a bit closer on a trackpad.

Thank you so much Full Tablet and Cheezstik. As the only differences you mentioned are things I have already taken care of, I can now confidently not buy a tablet considering the only thing i'm missing out on is the increased resolution you mentioned. Perhaps I will get one when and if I actually become decent at this game.

TorretDunker wrote:

I have acceleration disabled on my trackpad.

The misunderstanding here is that there are 2 types of acceleration to consider:
- Software acceleration: This is caused by the configuration of the device, this can be disabled via software.
- Hardware acceleration: It is inherent to the device, and can't be reduced without changing the hardware of the device or the tracking surface. This kind of acceleration is usually undesirable (specially for gaming or design work that requires precision).

Full Tablet wrote:

TorretDunker wrote:

I have acceleration disabled on my trackpad.

The misunderstanding here is that are 2 types of acceleration to consider:
- Software acceleration: This is caused by the configuration of the device, this can be disabled via software.
- Hardware acceleration: It is inherent to the device, and can't be reduced without changing the hardware of the device or the tracking surface. This kind of acceleration is usually undesirable (specially for gaming or design work that requires precision).

In that case does the software that changes your trackpad to absolute tracking remove the hardware acceleration?

Play more.

jaaakb wrote:

Play more.

??? I dont understand. How does that have anything to do with what we are talking about?

jaaakb wrote:

Play more.

You should probably try to read OP's post from time to time
Yeah.

TorretDunker wrote:

Indeed it is possible however it is expensive. The app costs $35

Pirate Bay

TorretDunker wrote:

Also you can hover on a trackpad. The ability to hover is present in any capitative touch device because they work off electrical signals rather than pressure. It seems like you need to be quite a bit closer on a trackpad.

Well, really depends on how you use the word hover. Put your hand flat on your desk now, you can feel the desk, you could say you are touching it. Technically, you are also hovering, since there are atom sized spaces in between your hand and the desk, because there are atom sized spaces everywhere. If you have to go close enough so you can feel the thing you are touching and there is friction when you move, then I wouldn't call it hovering at all. With tablet, there is no friction, you are actually hovering high enough to reasonably call it hovering.

TorretDunker wrote:

Thank you so much Full Tablet and Cheezstik. As the only differences you mentioned are things I have already taken care of, I can now confidently not buy a tablet considering the only thing i'm missing out on is the increased resolution you mentioned. Perhaps I will get one when and if I actually become decent at this game.

Yeah, it's not like playing with a touchpad is necessarily bad, we all have different playstyles, some made it very far with touchpad, touchscreen, other rare playstyles etc. Good idea on not shelling out the money to buy a tablet yet, as someone with not too bad of a rank but with terrible aim, I can say that aim is only half if not less than half of the game, tablet will mostly only help aim. You still need to get good accuracy, speed, reading, etc.

TorretDunker wrote:

In that case does the software that changes your trackpad to absolute tracking remove the hardware acceleration?

Yes.

Still, depending on your trackpad, other kinds of inaccuracies might show up or be more apparent in absolute mode.

1. Pixel skipping because of the low resolution of the trackpad.
2. Jitter (random "shaking" movement of the cursor close to the point it should be, even when the stylus is still); this issue also happens in some really cheap tablets

Im not certain but I think that the trackpad i'm using has a relatively high resolution. It's a macbook pro trackpad and when i use the demo of the program that converts to absolute mapping I don't notice any of those problems.

TorretDunker wrote:

Im not certain but I think that the trackpad i'm using has a relatively high resolution. It's a macbook pro trackpad and when i use the demo of the program that converts to absolute mapping I don't notice any of those problems.

Just don't worry about it, if you don't notice the problems, then you should be fine. The MacBook touchpads are the best laptop touchpads I've used, you should be fine. (I haven't used many high-end laptops) You should really try mouse though, it will probably be better in the long run.

cheezstik wrote:

TorretDunker wrote:

Im not certain but I think that the trackpad i'm using has a relatively high resolution. It's a macbook pro trackpad and when i use the demo of the program that converts to absolute mapping I don't notice any of those problems.

Just don't worry about it, if you don't notice the problems, then you should be fine. The MacBook touchpads are the best laptop touchpads I've used, you should be fine. (I haven't used many high-end laptops) You should really try mouse though, it will probably be better in the long run.

I actually played with mouse up until about two weeks ago when I switched to trackpad. Im still experimenting with different playstyles and I still definitely wan't to give tablet a shot (if I can borrow one off a friend or try it for free some other way). I have found so far though that using a trackpad and stylus is absolutely the easiest for me. It might have something to do with the stylus i'm using as well. I built my own out of a dead AA battery and the fact that it sits on my trackpad without support means its more like pushing a joystick around (only a lot smoother).

TorretDunker wrote:

cheezstik wrote:

Just don't worry about it, if you don't notice the problems, then you should be fine. The MacBook touchpads are the best laptop touchpads I've used, you should be fine. (I haven't used many high-end laptops) You should really try mouse though, it will probably be better in the long run.

I actually played with mouse up until about two weeks ago when I switched to trackpad. Im still experimenting with different playstyles and I still definitely wan't to give tablet a shot (if I can borrow one off a friend or try it for free some other way). I have found so far though that using a trackpad and stylus is absolutely the easiest for me. It might have something to do with the stylus i'm using as well. I built my own out of a dead AA battery and the fact that it sits on my trackpad without support means its more like pushing a joystick around (only a lot smoother).

That sounds pretty awkward to me, isn't the battery too light, so when you start doing faster jumps, you risk throwing your stylus off the touchpad? Plus, doesn't that scratch your touchpad? Oh well, if it works for you and it's the easiest then that's good for you.

I grip the battery right near the bottom and the negative end of the battery sits on the trackpad. It is very smooth and there is no scratching. Cant speak for my performance on fast jumps as I can't do them. Moving from mouse to trackpad I am now able to pass maps up to about 4 stars so I can only really do basic stuff.

I really recommend that you don't use trackpad, what might feel comfortable now will really limit you in the future. The macbook trackpads are good, but definitely can't compare to a good mouse or tablet. Especially for a tablet-like device, the fact that it doesn't support hovering is a huge deal, if your pseudopen bounces a bit or isn't touching the pad, you'll get a lot of random misses and stuff.