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Konuko - Toumei Elegy

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Vuelo Eluko
i do agree it should have been ar10, this isn't like back when BAT's were so iffy about ranking ar10 that stuff like Rainbow Dash being AR9 had to happen just to make it more likely to be ranked, i think it's perfectly feasible to get away with it on a map like this, i can't imagine ANYONE who can pass a map of this magnitude has any problems at all playing AR10, so why not use it?

That said, it's not worth unranking again over. I think it's healthy to make people put more effort into reading in this day and age of almost every single other map that is worth a lot of pp for top 100 players being ar10+.
Frc

Slong150 wrote:

Second Gonkanau difficulty beats Freedom dive (FOUR DIMENSIONS) by 0,01 star :O

The new most difficult ranked map in osu?! :o

If we´re talking about star rating, Owen wa Kanojo Nanoka is 11+ stars
Yuudachi-kun
So I should wait a week before playing this again right?
Gumpy
yes
Vuelo Eluko

FrcV wrote:

Slong150 wrote:

Second Gonkanau difficulty beats Freedom dive (FOUR DIMENSIONS) by 0,01 star :O

The new most difficult ranked map in osu?! :o

If we´re talking about star rating, Owen wa Kanojo Nanoka is 11+ stars
tag4's are no longer 'ranked'
that is, they have scoreboard, but exist outside the ranking system.
konekokittenzzz

FrcV wrote:

Slong150 wrote:

Second Gonkanau difficulty beats Freedom dive (FOUR DIMENSIONS) by 0,01 star :O

The new most difficult ranked map in osu?! :o

If we´re talking about star rating, Owen wa Kanojo Nanoka is 11+ stars
TAG 4 maps do not count towards PP.
Yuudachi-kun

Gumpyyy wrote:

yes
Roger
blahpy

Riince wrote:

tag4's are no longer 'ranked'
that is, they have scoreboard, but exist outside the ranking system.
I think you're confusing "ranked" and "give pp".
byfar
how is this spacing even allowed anymore lmao

song isnt even that intense, just high pitched
ac8129464363

blahpy wrote:

Riince wrote:

tag4's are no longer 'ranked'
that is, they have scoreboard, but exist outside the ranking system.
I think you're confusing "ranked" and "give pp".
prolly means ranking as in global player rank
ghm12

blahpy wrote:

Riince wrote:

tag4's are no longer 'ranked'
that is, they have scoreboard, but exist outside the ranking system.
I think you're confusing "ranked" and "give pp".
i'm almost sure tag4 isnt rankable anymore
Skubi


Tillerino plz
Rickput
I feel that 00:33:857 (1,2) - (Another diff) is awkwardly quite far to the edge of the map. I think it should be moved in about half a circle's length personally, or perhaps to like this:

Lust
Howdy Awaken, after many testplays and discussion, we have reached a consensus that this map must be disqualified over the following reasons:

[Second Gonkanau]
  1. According to many, the AR is just too low for the patterns you implemented. AR9.7 or even AR10 would make the play a lot smoother and inevitably solve issues on some patterns that were awkward
  2. 02:14:220 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - After internal discussion and various testplays, we have come to the conclusion that this section has not been lowered in difficulty the way we were hoping. Lowering the spacing is still recommended. Also, we believe that the patterns can be made a lot more intuitive. 02:17:493 (1,2,3,4,1,2,1,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5) - focuses too heavily on the right side of the screen. More movement around the playfield will allow for a more enjoyable pattern.
  3. 01:56:220 (7,2) - This overlap (as mentioned by jesus1412 and pointed out in various testplays) has been known to cause readability issues. Please try to avoid this.
In addition to these points, across the testplays we have received we have gotten feedback that should be considered and addressed appropriately:
  1. 00:10:402 (3,4,5,6) - The back and forth down and up motion is a bit too fast and awkward for the play. Suggestions have said that unstacking 00:10:811 (6) - and moving it to another location would be pretty beneficial
  2. 00:18:039 (1,2,3,4) - Same issue as above, players have said moving 00:18:448 (4) - to another location for a more oval flow works a lot better
  3. 00:53:493 (1,2,3,1) - The slider movement is quite fast and also flows downward to 00:54:039 (1) - and back up to 00:53:902 (3) - . The confusion stems from moving to 00:53:902 (3) - and then down to 00:54:039 (1) - , which can be hard to read with the AR
  4. 01:50:766 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - Another pattern that can benefit from an oval flowing triangle, the change in directions seems to cause some issues. Here is an example that works rather well: http://puu.sh/ggXZH/a5fc78f88e.jpg
  5. 02:04:130 (1,2,3,4,5) - You have a pattern flowing in one direction, then changes rather abruptly from 02:04:675 (5,6) - . This, followed by 02:04:948 (1) - coming downwards made the whole play either confusing or weird to handle appropriately. A more clear, smooth flowing pattern going around would be more beneficial for the play you wish to create here
  6. 02:09:857 (1,2,3,4) - The angle to the triplet plays out strangely, a less harsh angle of approach would be preferred
The BNG will handle this mapset from now on. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me and good luck with requalification!
Tom94

Lust wrote:

According to many, the AR is just too low for the patterns you implemented. AR9.7 or even AR10 would make the play a lot smoother and inevitably solve issues on some patterns that were awkward
I actually disagree. Personally I find the AR fits very well. In general it's a very subjective matter to talk about suitable ARs and I think should be left to the mapper as long as it's not too obviously out of order. Again, just my personal opinion. :p
Henri
Pls higher ar this time ;___; ar9.5 so slow
shARPII
Please, keep this topic useful for the mapper.
You're free to give your opinion when it makes sense, not shitposting.

Thank you.

(I'm not aiming everyone and this post is for prevention)
popc0rn

Tom94 wrote:

Lust wrote:

According to many, the AR is just too low for the patterns you implemented. AR9.7 or even AR10 would make the play a lot smoother and inevitably solve issues on some patterns that were awkward
I actually disagree. Personally I find the AR fits very well. In general it's a very subjective matter to talk about suitable ARs and I think should be left to the mapper as long as it's not too obviously out of order. Again, just my personal opinion. :p
I completely agree, raising the ar is unnecessary
Mel
there shouldn't be more than one unrank per map imo
what's the point of unranking a map and re-ranking it if you guys don't even bother to make sure everything is fixed

Tom94 wrote:

In general it's a very subjective matter to talk about suitable ARs and I think should be left to the mapper as long as it's not too obviously out of order.
^this
Henri
Tom94 wrote:
Lust wrote:
According to many, the AR is just too low for the patterns you implemented. AR9.7 or even AR10 would make the play a lot smoother and inevitably solve issues on some patterns that were awkward


I actually disagree. Personally I find the AR fits very well. In general it's a very subjective matter to talk about suitable ARs and I think should be left to the mapper as long as it's not too obviously out of order. Again, just my personal opinion. :p


I completely agree, raising the ar is unnecessary
I think the opinion of players who are actually able to get a good play on this diff (like 97%+) have an opinion of higher value, and it seems that those players agree that the approach rate should be higher. Thats why I also think that the current ar (9.5) probably is too low.
Xytox

Brazzers wrote:

Lust wrote:

[*]According to many, the AR is just too low for the patterns you implemented. AR9.7 or even AR10 would make the play a lot smoother and inevitably solve issues on some patterns that were awkward
Your testers can't read medium object density then? I wanna see any of them clearing hard (3.5*) diffs with EZ
I was one of the testers, even if my opinion wasn't heavily considered. But I can tell you EZ has nothing to do with this. http://puu.sh/gifRW/36e4733e0e.jpg

I was one of those who said the AR was too low. Admittedly, I'm not used to this star rating on this AR, and I did tell them that. So it's just my own fault really, or so I believe at least.
-GN

Lust wrote:

According to many, the AR is just too low for the patterns you implemented. AR9.7 or even AR10 would make the play a lot smoother and inevitably solve issues on some patterns that were awkward
what? that's ridiculous. AR10 is not going to work on this map at all and increasing it to 9.7 is just going to be a pointless change.
[Kole]

Tom94 wrote:

Lust wrote:

According to many, the AR is just too low for the patterns you implemented. AR9.7 or even AR10 would make the play a lot smoother and inevitably solve issues on some patterns that were awkward
I actually disagree. Personally I find the AR fits very well. In general it's a very subjective matter to talk about suitable ARs and I think should be left to the mapper as long as it's not too obviously out of order. Again, just my personal opinion. :p
Agree
Mei
I have asked mapper to reduce spacing of that part but he insist that current one is better. I find some players to tset it and they think it is fine (since i cant pass that diff) My point is that different people will have different thoughts and like someone think it is fine someone doesnt think so. It is not that fair you give disqualify with such these kind subjective points. It would be better if you can disqualify this after doing some disscusion with mapper and then we can work more effective.

P.S I think current ar is fine
Henri
If someone is calling AR9.7 too low, then they need to learn to read.
It's not about someone being able to read certain ar better than some other ar, It's about a certain ar fitting a diff better than some other ar..
lilelf29
Honestly I feel that if you can't FC the map you can't leave a real opinion on it.

This narrows down our choices to 1 person who literally doesn't care that it is high od or ar 9.5 or hard to read in some places.
Purple
This map will have 6+ FC's by the end of the year (provided the map creator puts up with all the bullshit), the only difference between rrtyui and the rest will be the play count (2 vs 50)

The only reason I can find for this nonsense is that the QAT/BAT's are having some serious mental breakdowns concerning the number 7, like omg SEVEN STARS, WHAAAT THATS CRAZY, so they are all nervous and anxious about it for god knows what reason and have to compensate by making sure the map is even easier to read than it already is.
Timorisu
Why are people throwing a fit over a qualified map being disqualified? This is what the section is for and you're warned about it when downloading maps.

Don't want this to happen or don't want to be upset about stuff like this? Stay away from the Qualified section. It's as simple as that.

Also there are so many people talking out of their ass without knowing how the ranking process works it's sad.
Broccoly

-GN wrote:

Lust wrote:

According to many, the AR is just too low for the patterns you implemented. AR9.7 or even AR10 would make the play a lot smoother and inevitably solve issues on some patterns that were awkward
what? that's ridiculous. AR10 is not going to work on this map at all and increasing it to 9.7 is just going to be a pointless change.
I disagree. Did you actually try it? AR10 makes it so much easier to read the cross-screen jumps. I mean, I don't understand why the mapper is hesitating to use AR10 when the map is already 7 stars, BPM of 220, and using x6.0-x7.0 distance jumps. I FC'd the hardest part in the second try with AR10, and I really do believe there are players like me who find the AR as the only obstacle that is preventing them from FCing. I doubt that there are people who cannot read AR10 at the skill-level where the diff was aimed to be played at. This isn't 2012 when AR10 was thought as a taboo. The mapper obviously thinks that the song deserves such extreme jumps, and yes it fits well; however, then, why not use an extreme AR? If the AR is kept at 9.5, the mapper is making the same mistake of rainbow dash, pluto, or trigger happy. I really hope you make the wise choice.
Midget

Lust wrote:

02:17:493 (1,2,3,4,1,2,1,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5) - focuses too heavily on the right side of the screen. More movement around the playfield will allow for a more enjoyable pattern.

Everyone is bitching about the AR and I just want this to come true..
JappyBabes

Purple wrote:

The only reason I can find for this nonsense is that the QAT/BAT's are having some serious mental breakdowns concerning the number 7, like omg SEVEN STARS, WHAAAT THATS CRAZY, so they are all nervous and anxious about it for god knows what reason and have to compensate by making sure the map is even easier to read than it already is.
Good. That's how it should be when a map like this gets ranked. It's not your typical anime OP with AR9 arbitrarily assigned to it that will fly through qualified without a problem. Maps like these should be scrutinized. The AR change is only one of the suggestions Lust listed. To me, this is more about mapping patterns which don't work well with the AR. There are two scenarios, you change the AR to something slightly higher or you change some of the patterns to be more intuitive. http://puu.sh/giomH/ec2427d303.png The jumps at 820x, although they are technically the hardest part of the map, they still play fine because they fit the AR quite well (not to say it's mapped perfectly, I think it's entirely reasonable to criticize how it focuses on the right side of the screen even though it is not as big of a deal). The QATs are not overreacting, look at the members of QAT. None of them are top players so they do the logical thing. They ask the top players. "Hey, we need some opinions on this map going through qualified as none of us are able to play the highest difficulty, mind helping us out?", and guess what? We all had problems with it. That difficulty isn't for 99% of the people posting in this thread right now, your opinion is honestly not appreciated and is detrimental to ensuring this map is done right. The only posts here I see worth following up on are Tom and GN's. Simple as that. walloftext
LexiaLovesU
240 + is what calls for more ar 10 tbh AR 9.7 fits best with the map and it also makes calmer part of the map not look awful with it. AR 10 goes a bit too fast
walao
ar9.7 is fine, but ar10 feels better imo
but rip map
-Aeryn-

Tom94 wrote:

Lust wrote:

According to many, the AR is just too low for the patterns you implemented. AR9.7 or even AR10 would make the play a lot smoother and inevitably solve issues on some patterns that were awkward
I actually disagree. Personally I find the AR fits very well. In general it's a very subjective matter to talk about suitable ARs and I think should be left to the mapper as long as it's not too obviously out of order. Again, just my personal opinion. :p
I also disagree strongly. The AR is completely fine and raising it would make the map objectively worse to play and less challenging and fun.

It's not a mistake to use an AR that's not super high. It's a mistake to force everything to ar10 and 10.33 even though it plays fine at 9.5 and better players could do it at ar9 and take away the whole "reading" side of osu. 9.5 is completely fine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSUBU6Bgxzc

come on, you already nerfed my favorite part^, it's no fun to learn to play 220bpm effectively instead of just relax playing if the whole fun parts of the map (jumps+spacing, reading) is neutered.
Henri

LexiaLovesU wrote:

AR 9.7 fits best with the map and it also makes calmer part of the map not look awful with it.
We know this is not mania so the AR being too high for the calmer part is a problem with no real solution.
Sure it might be true but what can you do? If you make it lower the hard parts will be too low AR..
I'd rather have the hard parts with correct AR than the calm parts with correct AR, if it means one part of the map being in uncomfortable to read regardless of the AR used. (and in this case I do not think AR10 would cause said problems at all)

Quite frankly i do not understand why this is'nt an easy simple decicion, taking into consideration there are no higher star rating maps ranked so i don't understand how anyone would question AR10 being too high.
Every top 500 player can play even higher AR than 10 and feel comfortable with it, so AR10 doesn't seem too extreme from in any aspect for this diff..
-Aeryn-

Sotajumala wrote:

LexiaLovesU wrote:

AR 9.7 fits best with the map and it also makes calmer part of the map not look awful with it.
We know this is not mania so the AR being too high for the calmer part is a problem with no real solution.
Sure it might be true but what can you do? If you make it lower the hard parts will be too low AR..
I'd rather have the hard parts with correct AR than the calm parts with correct AR, if it means one part of the map being in uncomfortable to read regardless of the AR used. (and in this case I do not think AR10 would cause said problems at all)

Quite frankly i do not understand why this is'nt an easy simple decicion, taking into consideration there are no higher star rating maps ranked so i don't understand how anyone would question AR10 being too high.
Every top 500 player can play even higher AR than 10 and feel comfortable with it, so AR10 doesn't seem too extreme from in any aspect for this diff..
It's not too extreme, but simply maxing out the AR as high as reasonable people can react for every single map removes a lot of depth from the map
Henri
It's not too extreme, but simply maxing out the AR as high as reasonable people can react for every single map removes a lot of depth from the map
Im not saying the AR should be as high as possible, I'm saying that I think AR10 is the best AR for this diff.
Purple

JappyBabes wrote:

Purple wrote:

The only reason I can find for this nonsense is that the QAT/BAT's are having some serious mental breakdowns concerning the number 7, like omg SEVEN STARS, WHAAAT THATS CRAZY, so they are all nervous and anxious about it for god knows what reason and have to compensate by making sure the map is even easier to read than it already is.
Good. That's how it should be when a map like this gets ranked. It's not your typical anime OP with AR9 arbitrarily assigned to it that will fly through qualified without a problem. Maps like these should be scrutinized. The AR change is only one of the suggestions Lust listed. To me, this is more about mapping patterns which don't work well with the AR. There are two scenarios, you change the AR to something slightly higher or you change some of the patterns to be more intuitive. http://puu.sh/giomH/ec2427d303.png The jumps at 820x, although they are technically the hardest part of the map, they still play fine because they fit the AR quite well (not to say it's mapped perfectly, I think it's entirely reasonable to criticize how it focuses on the right side of the screen even though it is not as big of a deal). The QATs are not overreacting, look at the members of QAT. None of them are top players so they do the logical thing. They ask the top players. "Hey, we need some opinions on this map going through qualified as none of us are able to play the highest difficulty, mind helping us out?", and guess what? We all had problems with it. That difficulty isn't for 99% of the people posting in this thread right now, your opinion is honestly not appreciated and is detrimental to ensuring this map is done right. The only posts here I see worth following up on are Tom and GN's. Simple as that. walloftext
I actually didn't realize you or jesus1412 constitute TOP PLAYERS that are known for doing AMAZING THINGS in this game like 7-8 stars maps such as this one. IMO, if the QATs need the input of someone else because a map is too hard for them (fair enough), they should seek people that are known to FC maps of similar difficulty, and in this case, that means rrtyui, hvick, DH, WWW, HDHR, thelewa, and a few others. If they can't find anyone who can FC this song and speak english, they have to do the translation work themselves, it's that simple.

What's interesting is that your post essentially confirms a new ranking rule that says that for a map to be ranked, it has to be easy enough for rrtyui (AKA best player) to FC it, which is just completely unnecessary TBH. There's nothing wrong with ranking a map that noone can FC at the moment, the game is for fun to be had, not for pathological perfectionism.
-Aeryn-

Sotajumala wrote:

It's not too extreme, but simply maxing out the AR as high as reasonable people can react for every single map removes a lot of depth from the map
Im not saying the AR should be as high as possible, I'm saying that I think AR10 is the best AR for this diff.
I think 9.3 is the best AR for second gonkanau but i can see why some would want to play it at 9 or approaching 10 (i'm just too bad to read it well at ar9)

Just to be clear, i agree that hard to read = bad. Hard to read as in readability issues - stuff stacked badly, very confusing patterns for no reason. However in this case, it's very simply put:

"There's too many circles on the screen at once for me to handle, make it easier" and i don't like that at all. The map plays fine and anybody, anybody at all who plays at a high level and has developed reading skills can go into it on their first play without a hitch.
Broccoly

-Aeryn- wrote:

I also disagree strongly. The AR is completely fine and raising it would make the map objectively worse to play and less challenging and fun.
Can you explain how it is objectively worse? Because you think so?
Less challenging? AR should not be used to challenge players; it should be used accordingly to the patterns and to guide players to clearly read what they are hitting.

Kheldragar wrote:

There's no such thing as fun in Osu.
Can we not digress?
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