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Konuko - Toumei Elegy

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Saoji
825 posts
Joined February 2013
Saoji

FlobuFlobs wrote:

Christ I really don't understand all the "perfection" blah blah about the beatmap ranking process. So what if a note is a pixel offscreen, is that really a reason to unrank? If it's fun and doesn't have issues that ruin its playability and/or status as a coherent beatmap i really don't think it matters.

That's why half of the newly ranked beatmaps are TV sizes, and the approved category has been dead since 2013 :)

Approved isnt dead, approved is for marathon maps with a draintime of +5min
Well... Things have changed since 2013, and most people will agree that it didn't change in a good way. So we can somehow say that approval is dead, yes.

-

Awesome map, really impressed :3
ac8129464363
1,560 posts
Joined October 2013
ac8129464363

Default wrote:

FlobuFlobs wrote:

Approved isnt dead, approved is for marathon maps with a draintime of +5min
Which can't get ranked because they have 659559+ notes which need to be moved a pixel to the left/right or whatever. Check the date of the lastest approved map and tell me if it's dead or not.

Edit: Damn why am I so whiny anyway t.t I need some sleep, being an active BAT/QAT is probably hard as hell
There are a couple of approved maps each week. It's just given heart instead of a flame recently, so it shows under ranked rather than approved, as the systems are pretty much the same now excluding that you need 3 nominations rather than 2 to get approved.

the ones in qualified right now:
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/270999
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/53342
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/277279
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/253969
Saoji
825 posts
Joined February 2013
Saoji

deetz wrote:

[

There are a couple of approved maps each week. It's just given heart instead of a flame recently, so it shows under ranked rather than approved, as the systems are pretty much the same now excluding that you need 3 nominations rather than 2 to get approved.

the ones in qualified right now:
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/270999
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/53342
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/277279
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/253969
Uh... Approval now is just for marathon. (as you can see by yourself on the links you posted). They just should have named it "marathon section" instead of giving the old name "approval" to avoid confusion. Because "approval" wasn't always for marathon only.

Well, about an offscreen problem it has to be fixed though and I don't get why this talk about marathon for this kind of problem. o.o
ac8129464363
1,560 posts
Joined October 2013
ac8129464363

Yales wrote:

deetz wrote:

[

There are a couple of approved maps each week. It's just given heart instead of a flame recently, so it shows under ranked rather than approved, as the systems are pretty much the same now excluding that you need 3 nominations rather than 2 to get approved.

the ones in qualified right now:
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/270999
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/53342
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/277279
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/253969
Uh... Approval now is just for marathon. (as you can see by yourself on the links you posted). They just should have named it "marathon section" instead of giving the old name "approval" to avoid confusion. Because "approval" wasn't always for marathon only.

Well, about an offscreen problem it has to be fixed though and I don't get why this talk about marathon for this kind of problem. o.o
yep i understand that lol

just Default doesn't know that approval still exists for marathons because they don't give maps flames anymore, and they don't show up under the Approved tab anymore as a result. Which would lead him to think that maps don't get approved anymore :o
VINXIS
Featured Artist
3,161 posts
Joined April 2014
VINXIS
ok
saiyuri
215 posts
Joined June 2013
saiyuri
=w=
Adralil
Adralil
pls dont unrank it ok its ok map pls pls dont
hehe
1,959 posts
Joined November 2012
hehe

nookls wrote:

Christ I really don't understand all the "perfection" blah blah about the beatmap ranking process. So what if a note is a pixel offscreen, is that really a reason to unrank? If it's fun and doesn't have issues that ruin its playability and/or status as a coherent beatmap i really don't think it matters.
lol xd lets rank rabbit jumping styl!!! its fun, playable and coherent 2 me hehe :p
Sellenite
1,092 posts
Joined September 2013
Sellenite
i think you guys can make more excuses to call qat instead of the funny offscreen which is inconsequential
DeletedUser_4329079
DeletedUser_4329079

deetz wrote:

It's just given heart instead of a flame recently, so it shows under ranked rather than approved, as the systems are pretty much the same now excluding that you need 3 nominations rather than 2 to get approved.

Oh ok, that's how it should've been since the begining ^^
Hadis
73 posts
Joined October 2013
Hadis

Mazzerin wrote:

what are you talking about, if a note is offscreen by a pixel it's a trash unplayable map with zero signs of quality
I laughed hard.
Ciyus Miapah
3,011 posts
Joined June 2013
Ciyus Miapah
probably rrtyui didnt make that thing a big deal. so it's okay
silmarilen
5,579 posts
Joined February 2010
silmarilen

nookls wrote:

Christ I really don't understand all the "perfection" blah blah about the beatmap ranking process. So what if a note is a pixel offscreen, is that really a reason to unrank? If it's fun and doesn't have issues that ruin its playability and/or status as a coherent beatmap i really don't think it matters.
or just dont map offscreen. it's not hard.
Jenny
2,200 posts
Joined November 2010
Jenny

nookls wrote:

Christ I really don't understand all the "perfection" blah blah about the beatmap ranking process. So what if a note is a pixel offscreen, is that really a reason to unrank? If it's fun and doesn't have issues that ruin its playability and/or status as a coherent beatmap i really don't think it matters.

Keep in mind where the interface is, avoid quirky overlaps and you're fine, dandy and it doesn't look bad or off.
Yauxo
1,622 posts
Joined June 2011
Yauxo

silmarilen wrote:

nookls wrote:

Christ I really don't understand all the "perfection" blah blah about the beatmap ranking process. So what if a note is a pixel offscreen, is that really a reason to unrank? If it's fun and doesn't have issues that ruin its playability and/or status as a coherent beatmap i really don't think it matters.
or just dont map offscreen. it's not hard.
/thread (please?)
Dekadent
17 posts
Joined August 2013
Dekadent
Congratulations on having this map ranked (in theory)!

PS. previous BG was a lot better ;_;
PS2. Transparent Wailing dif was great too, rip
CXu
osu! Alumni
3,558 posts
Joined March 2009
CXu
Off-screen notes have always been unrankable, so I don't see how this is anything new or groundbreaking that BN/QAT care about "a few pixels". And they should be caught at some point by modders/BN during modding in the first place, though I dunno how many actually look for these things. + It's annoying to have to change the resolution to 4:3 to check for off-screen notes to the left or right.

It's not a huge deal anyway. Just unqualify, fix the slider, and get it qualified again. Scores get wiped, but that's why it's qualified and not ranked in the first place.
Asphyxia
osu! Alumni
1,986 posts
Joined June 2012
Asphyxia
Reasons for Disqualification

  1. 02:05:766 (2) - in Extreme is off-screen. This issue explains itself and requires being fixed in order to get your map re-qualified.
  2. 02:14:220 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - in Second Gonakanau creates a massive difficulty gap within the difficulty itself. You can compare both wkyikawa's Extra and Second Gonkanau from 02:14:220 - to 02:18:584 - , the gap is quite huge. Reducing the spacing to something more suitable is strongly recommended. We don't think it is appropriate in its current state.

Additional modding


General

  1. The combo colors 4 and 5 are too similar, they're really hard to distinguish from each other. Please consider changing one of them (possibly combo color 5) to something darker.
  2. Increasing the volume on every section by 10-15% wouldn't hurt at all, since the objects feel rather inaudible from time to time when the hitsounds are not dominate.
Easy

  1. 00:33:857 (1) - Please don't ignore the stanza, it makes your earlier pattern (00:27:311 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - ) feel very inconsistent due to the stanza having such a similar sound to it. That being said, you could use a rhythm according to the example below, because it'd also follow the vocals better!
    Example
  2. 01:20:220 (2) - Nicely done, I like the shape a lot!
  3. 01:29:493 (1) - Again, please don't let the slider end cover the stanza, since the stanza is again dominate enough for you to place a note there.
  4. 01:33:857 (1) - ^ and so on...
  5. I liked the difficulty a lot, the only downside was that some of the important beats were covered by slider ends, where as you could have just placed a note there to emphasis certain a beat, pattern or even a part better.
Regraz's Normal

  1. 00:48:039 (3,4) - I would not stack these, because you already stacked 00:18:039 (4,5) - and having stacks that are rhythmically different may get a bit troublesome for beginners.
  2. 00:57:857 (1) - I find it more appealing if the slider was shaped more according to the example below, gives the slider more of a blanket-friendly shape:
    Example
  3. 01:01:130 (1,1) - Blanket could be better here.
  4. 01:52:403 (1) - Same would apply to this slider as well, if you decided to make changes to the previous one.
  5. 03:07:675 (3) - This slider feels really weird, mainly because 03:07:948 - has such a strong beat. I'd advise you to change the rhythm to something more appropriate, so the strong beat gets emphasized.
    Example

Hard

  1. 00:20:766 (1,2) - Even though there's a small break between these sliders, the spacing still feels quite large. Consider reducing it please.
  2. 02:18:039 (3,1) - Same goes here, reducing the spacing would definitely make this difficulty more appropriate for the Hard players.
  3. 02:56:766 (1) - The loop of this slider would definitely look more appealing if it would be symmetric, try this?
    Example

G's Insane

  1. 01:29:493 (1,1,1) - Consider changing this part visually, because right now it looks really cramped.
  2. 02:12:039 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,1) - Please consider using at least some repeat sliders here, because this creates a huge difficulty spike to the difficulty itself, and making the gap from Hard > Insane also rather iffy.
wkyikawa's Extra

  1. 01:21:857 (5) - Please put a new combo here, every difficulty has one except this.

Good luck re-qualifying this set! The BNG will handle it from now on and as always, if you have any questions, feel free to ask me!
Buttercup
1,065 posts
Joined May 2012
Buttercup
rip
voynich
273 posts
Joined July 2014
voynich
:( I was right about to do Extreme...
Oh well.Go back to editing this map and hopefully it might get ranked!
ac8129464363
1,560 posts
Joined October 2013
ac8129464363
rip 7 star dreams
aefrogdog
8 posts
Joined March 2014
aefrogdog
Awh :c
Last edited by aefrogdog , edited 1 time in total.
ac8129464363
1,560 posts
Joined October 2013
ac8129464363

aefrogdog wrote:

Why was it unranked? :o
lol
jesse1412
1,457 posts
Joined January 2010
jesse1412

Asphyxia wrote:

02:14:220 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - in Second Gonakanau creates a massive difficulty gap within the difficulty itself. You can compare both wkyikawa's Extra and Second Gonkanau from 02:14:220 - to 02:18:584 - , the gap is quite huge. Reducing the spacing to something more suitable is strongly recommended. We don't think it is appropriate in its current state.
The gap isn't that huge and this is the peak of the song, don't be silly. Alternatively, make the entire map harder to fix.
Last edited by jesse1412 , edited 1 time in total.
Yauxo
1,622 posts
Joined June 2011
Yauxo
That was to be expected.

Dont even think about mapping objects offscreen, always proof-read (or watch in this case) and dont count on nobody noticing.
Xilver15
Former osu! Champion: 2015
510 posts
Joined August 2013
Xilver15
.
Last edited by Xilver15 , edited 5 times in total.
xLolicore-
636 posts
Joined June 2014
xLolicore-
Welp. No more 7 stars? ;-;
Azer
World Cup Organiser
1,107 posts
Joined December 2012
Azer
I agree with the 'nerf'. That part alone was twice as hard to FC compared to the rest of the difficulty, you could see so many 8xx combo scores on the leaderboards, even though as jesse says it's the peak of the song, the gap was way too much.
VINXIS
Featured Artist
3,161 posts
Joined April 2014
VINXIS
kk let's make it exactly 7.00 stars now lesgo
Yuudachi-kun
5,432 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun

Yauxo wrote:

That was to be expected.

Dont even think about mapping objects offscreen, always proof-read (or watch in this case) and dont count on nobody noticing.

Mazzerin wrote:

what are you talking about, if a note is offscreen by a pixel it's a trash unplayable map with zero signs of quality
jesse1412
1,457 posts
Joined January 2010
jesse1412

Xilver wrote:

tbh I agree with disqualify, the hard part in the 7 star diff really did need a nerf and in general the whole mapset needs a bit more work. Asphyxia the hero

P.S - Awaken why did you get rid of Transparent Wailing's mapping, that version of the difficulty was so good ;w;


jesus1412 wrote:

The gap isn't that huge and this is the peak of the song, don't be silly. Alternatively, make the entire map harder to fix.
wat

You need to understand that you can only make a map that difficult until it just doesn't fit the music anymore, and IMO the peak of the song didn't need overdone jumps like it has right now, so making it harder would just make it even more unfitting.
I agree with changing the jumps to be more intuitive, but how does difficulty effect how well a map goes with the music? It's the hardest part of the map and it's the peak of the song, that's just how it is, obviously a lot of people will break there. Difficulty is only overdone or unfitting when it doesn't fit the rest of the map, in this case the difficulty of those jumps is fitting relative to the rest of the map (in my opinion, and we're talking only in opinions here). I think it's silly to say that if the rest of the map became harder then the map suddenly wouldn't fit with the music, difficulty is a subjective thing and to some people some of the parts simply appear overdone or too hard; but what about the people who think that everything is flowing perfectly while actually being a challenge for once? I know that people who can tackle this map are far and few but there's not much out there for those people, I personally can't do those jumps but if we go on what you and I think then there's no one left to cater for the people beyond us. I don't agree that these jumps are too much compared to the rest of map in the sense that they're the peak of the map and anyone who can consistently maintain combo on the rest of the map can most probably keep combo on those jumps every once in a while (as it should be, the peak of the map is the part people should focus on FCing).
ac8129464363
1,560 posts
Joined October 2013
ac8129464363

Xilver wrote:

in general the whole mapset needs a bit more work
honestly, imo if you don't go into specifics while saying it this is one of the least helpful things you can say :/
-GN
Champion Above Champions
734 posts
Joined June 2011
-GN
While internal difficulty spikes are completely okay in my book, I think it should be changed around a bit, mostly because the hand motions for the latter half of the extreme part(particularly this 02:16:948 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - ) is very awkward to play and requires quite wonky hand movement(and very precise too, given the high spacing). although, i don't think you should nerf the pattern too much - it really makes the map worthwhile and memorable, which i think is great. i seem to be in the minority here, though.

a couple other notes on small things that I found to be weird in the map:
01:26:220 (1) - put this on the sliderstart of the (3) before it, to continue the back and forth thing. quite minor, but i don't think it makes sense as is.
02:04:948 (1,2) - i understand you'd want to emphasise the vocals and the start of the solo, but please don't make 1/4 jumps like this.
02:19:948 (1) - this one note is quite underwhelming since it breaks the upbeat clap pattern. considering it's the final part of the solo it's more noticeable.
02:22:675 (4) - please adjust this so that it flows better coming out of (3).
02:44:766 (5,6,7,8) - these make little sense considering the music. i'd expect separate stacks where the music change notes (so it'd go like 4-2-1-1)
02:49:130 (1,2) - ^ likewise, these two should be stacked
Xilver15
Former osu! Champion: 2015
510 posts
Joined August 2013
Xilver15
.
Last edited by Xilver15 , edited 1 time in total.
CXu
osu! Alumni
3,558 posts
Joined March 2009
CXu
Most of the kiai sections use about 2.5x as spacing, while the peak of the map have spacing at around 3.0x, and the final kiai having jumps that are slightly harder than the previous kiai's. I don't really think this is too much of a difficulty gap, and I can FC or 1xmiss on them fairly often (220bpm streams too hard). Also, the mapset has 3 extra difficulties; it should be fine to have one extremely challenging diff in the mapset. + Those jumps are fun.

Xilver wrote:

You bring up some good points, but to me there is a level where the map doesn't fit with the song anymore, even if all parts of the map are mapped with similar difficulty scale. Clearly you can't really map a 7 star map on a low BPM TV Size Anime OP, at least if you want it to be ranked, so there's some basic ratio between the song and its map. And while it doesn't apply for this map since it's not TV Size derp, I feel like the ratio still exists.
I bet Silynn probably did that at some point.
Last edited by CXu , edited 1 time in total.
jesse1412
1,457 posts
Joined January 2010
jesse1412

Xilver wrote:

Oh well, you know a lot more than me about how mapping works so there's really no point to debate here. We'll see how this map ends up being :)
Everything you said was totally correct until we got to here :( . I'm just a player, I'm the target demographic of the ranking criteria so I let my opinion out. We seem to have different views on how difficulty effects a map and it's relationship with the song and that's fine, I just hope we can respect the mappers opinion on such a subjective matter.
MEK
66 posts
Joined September 2013
MEK
Unrank for difficulty spike is super inconsistent. Look at maps like Daidai Genome and Best FriendS which were ranked very recently.
Wishy
2,974 posts
Joined September 2010
Wishy
Map was perfect, difficulty peaks are to be expected on songs that have that kind of rhythm, as jesse says it's the peak of the song, it would feel just wrong if difficulty didn't go a lot higher.

If we go by this logic maps like IMAGE MATERIAL should be unranked because they have a huge difficulty spike on a single part. :ss

This kind of issues should not be addressed this way. Talking about the highest difficulty only, it caters to a very small percentage of the playerbase, FC wise probably less than 100/200 players, difficulty wise (getting few misses) probably to less than 1000. This kind of maps are what keep entertaining high skilled players. Personally I kind of played the map just because of that very hard part, loved it (it was even harder before the diff name got changed imo). Haven't played the updated version but if that whole part got nerfed and now is as hard as the rest of the map then it's kind of... plain boring really.

When you play "long" maps you do want difficulty spikes, otherwise it's extremely boring to play. Look at this Hayabi or whatever it's called this map with the Awoken Challenge difficulty. It gets A LOT harder towards the end as in that's the only part where you can miss but afaik it's fine and the map is ranked. Why doesn't this work that way here?
Last edited by Wishy , edited 1 time in total.
[Hello Goodbye]
[Hello Goodbye]

Wishy wrote:

Map was perfect, difficulty peaks are to be expected on songs that have that kind of rhythm, as jesse says it's the peak of the song, it would feel just wrong if difficulty didn't go a lot higher.

If we go by this logic maps like IMAGE MATERIAL should be unranked because they have a huge difficulty spike on a single part. :ss

Done. Srsly, i hope u can rank it again.
Wishy
2,974 posts
Joined September 2010
Wishy
And what I think is worse is that the map wasn't actually THAT impossible. -_-
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