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osu! World Cup 2014 - Discussion Thread

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Xayne
That's what it boils down to. I want to see the OWC succeed. But this is only going to ruin its reputation if it keeps going in this direction. It's going to get to the point where only die-hards will tune in. I see the potential for great entertainment value through osu competitions, but the way things are now is just one huge self-destruct button.
[-Cloud-]

Nashmun wrote:

Just enjoy the tournament and don't bring unecessary drama everytime something happen, that was actually my point even if my post seemed aggressive.
I guess, this is kinda hard, when you're not able to play for telling someone to chill. You should see it in the players perspective.
HoboEater
Oh man... I've never seen such a messy tournament. So much unnecessary drama.
Nashmun
I am not saying the way the tournament is managed is perfect, but was it worth it polluating the chat with insults and bring it to the forum with no constructive comments ? (I'm talking about this particular case, there were indeed constructive discussions in this thread).

And do people really think Loctav is just enjoying having power and ban people because he likes it ? Of course I understand the player point of view, being a world cup player myself, I'd be pissed too, but I would never takes this to this level.
GladiOol
absolute power corrupts absolutely

i'm just here for the twitch bit though. i really do not understand why you would ever moderate twitch chat. the only reason when you need to clear and/or moderate is when shit is out of control. that was not the case here. not by miles. this was just a simple riot. let the fucking chat have their riot. that's what twitch is about. if you truly cannot have the backbone, sense of humor or just brain to comprehend these type of events that occur in the twitch chat, then fucking leave twitch. twitch is where fun is allowed. if you don't like fun, go host this shit on dailymotion.
El_Duderino

Nashmun wrote:

I am not saying the way the tournament is managed is perfect, but was it worth it polluating the chat with insults and bring it to the forum with no constructive comments ? (I'm talking about this particular case, there were indeed constructive discussions in this thread).

Have you met twitch chat before, that should not come as a surprise. Also the heavy moderating is not helping with this issue.

Nashmun wrote:

And do people really think Loctav is just enjoying having power and ban people because he likes it ? Of course I understand the player point of view, being a world cup player myself, I'd be pissed too, but I would never takes this to this level.

Point is he overreacted, simple as this. The silence was in no way justified.
Cola
So much unnessesary drama coming up around that NL-Aus match.

From what i can tell mostly caused by a flawed organization pushing people into hurrying up in a very mean way. I'm not saying Loctav is the single reason here, i know why he pushes the players to hurry up, yet he is doing it the wrong way imo. There are options to be nice about it. If you are being nice you can mostly expect appropriate behaviour from your partner in conversations.
Still this may sound harsh, but i think a person who gets so abusive to players should not have the rights to ban or silence players, this is a thing to think about.

A total different thing is how the twitch chat is being handled. That approach is just straightup wrong from what i can tell. If you ban out emotes, names of players or unpleasant comments, that just causes more and more spam. People are not going to step down because they got timed out for a second, but they will instead try to fight authority, its just natural human nature.
I don't want to say to allow all spam, mods can certainly time out abusive spam or incredibly mean comments. But as it stands no humor is accepted by any moderation and that just lowers everyones fun. Mods and commentators dont have fun because people start to riot and spam, people rooting for their team dont have fun because chat gets ruined and they cant even put emotes after their comment.

OWC wants to appear like a "professional" tournament, but at the same time they have flawed rules like when a player DCs its his fault, even if i have seen on stream of players that they DCed from bancho without their internet dropping. Also the stream is heavily influences by lag issues which goes to show how stable the servers really are and no, this is not a twitch issue. It should be decided whether OWC is supposed to be "for fun" or full-on "competetive". Either way, changes should be made both in staff and in attitude of the organisation.
CXu
Köttbullar!
Cyclohexane
SWEDEN YES
Xytox
THE UPSET HAS BEEN DONE
Aka
gg
Xayne
-meatballs intensify-
Omgforz

Xytox wrote:

THE UPSET HAS BEEN DONE
Sweden confirmed for doping themselves with meatballs.
Glazbom
Match results please.
Marcin
Results are always added to wiki by the end of all matches
never the less:
China	2	5	South Korea 	https://osu.ppy.sh/mp/10507941
Australia 2 5 Netherlands https://osu.ppy.sh/mp/10508932
Ukraine 5 1 Taiwan https://osu.ppy.sh/mp/10509978
Sweden 5 3 Japan https://osu.ppy.sh/mp/10510938
Poland France
Germany Russian Federation
United Kingdom Austria
Argentina United States
Topic Starter
Loctav
Let me kick in to explain a few things:

Please consider that this tournament, for us, the managers, is very stressful, as in we get bombarded with a lot of questions, blames, issues, stuff (not to speak of the secondary business running parallely to the OWC), therefore it can result in getting a bit more hectic and heated up in the Match Rooms as we actually intend it to be.

For the case everyone talking about: Yes, I am sorry, it turned out like that. I understand the implication that this odd passive joke may not have warranted a silence under this circumstances, yet please understand that several people were already blaming me for silencing Happyjon, who pretty much got himself silenced by BanchoBot for spamming #minecraft (his fault, we can not revoke BanchoBot silences). Let's say, I was pretty much agitated people spamming me already with that stuff. This said, some rosters or players here intentionally or unintentionally eat up time without any clear purpose. They chitchat in the Match Rooms, delay the picks, do not listen to the management at all, they pretty much do what they want. Sure we start to put pressure then, by letting them only 1 minute time to decide their pick, to decide their substitute, to get ready (in case someone has to pee, he can say it beforehand and we can wait for another 2 mins or something, that's totally fine). But most delays are unneeded delays. Whilst the viewers are moaning about "why does it take so long", the players mostly just mess around. And then they tell me constantly "to chill" or to "calm down please", whereas they take literally 15 minutes to pick 1 map. Consider, that there are also other matches running that we want to stream, fully. From start to end. People being selfish enough to delay the match needlessly, because they don't care about the other matches (because we have to delay the runner-up ones sometimes for this slow behavior), I start to give time limits.

If people constantly make fun of more for that or start to still mess around, ignore the managements requests and then start to make passive-aggressive jokes, just because to be funny or to agitate me, then yes, I can overreact. Okay, it was an overreaction in this specific case. Luckily, Netherlands won anyways, so at least this was no loss directly.

Anyways, for the future: Please respect that the tournament is constructed around a tight schedule, especially to comfort viewers and players the most, considering all the time zones and masses of players antipiciating this event. Therefore, also respect that if we give you a request, you shall follow it. If we ask you to pick a map within 1 minute, do not take yourself 2 minutes. Do not discuss 5 minutes for exchanging people. Do not start to talk about your latest birthday party. Try to make the match go fluent and fast, so everyone is calm and happy. (refer to the Japan vs Sweden match). I know you all have a strategy or want to play trump cards. That's totally fine. But you have 1 week to prepare yourself on all maps, you also have all the time you need to prepare the maps you want to ban and all the possilble rosters you want to use for a specific map. You also could already plan ahead who uses what mod in a freemod pick. This is all planable. Every delay you can reduce from your side makes everything happier and fluent. Ultimatively, I revoked the silence from HappyStick and I apologize sincerely for the issue, yet beg for your understanding that this was a fault that does not solely lies on my side.

Whereas I promise to be more chilled and calm, polite and nice, I ask you all, players and viewers, to also be more disciplined and respectful towards the tournaments, its rules and the requests of the referee.

Thanks for your attention.
CXu
Just something, but I do believe in some cases 1 minute might not really be enough, especially if the opposite team picks one of the maps you'd already planned, things dont work out as you thought, or similar, and you have to talk to your whole rooster through ingame-pm or something. While I don't really know how the chat has been, or how the matches have been going in general, but just throwing it out for what it's worth.
Topic Starter
Loctav

CXu wrote:

Just something, but I do believe in some cases 1 minute might not really be enough, especially if the opposite team picks one of the maps you'd already planned, things dont work out as you thought, or similar, and you have to talk to your whole rooster through ingame-pm or something. While I don't really know how the chat has been, or how the matches have been going in general, but just throwing it out for what it's worth.
You can use all language-specific channels on OWC bancho for that. They are existing and empty (in case PM is too complicated). But yeh, well, even if we say 1 minute, they usually just need 20 seconds (average). When someone surpasses the 1 minute, I tend to poke them again, finally ending up at 2 minutes, anyways. We mostly only give the cap for rosters being known for taking unnecessary time anyways.
Gangsterkill
I just want to say that I really appreciate your answer Loctav and that you have my respect.
Athrun
I can respect your point of view and I will accept
sellyme
While I respect the response and apology, it doesn't really change the fact that the staff team's first reaction to people getting (justifiably) pissed off by this was to go "oh shit, we better silence and ban anyone who even mentions it". I understand that many of these were rescinded, but that's still an awful reaction to anyone simply bringing up a concern they have, and the issue is that it happened at all.
Makan1
Sorry loctav but you're failing to prove yourself as a mod who can handle this job time and time again. it is so sad to see that the only way you handle things is by silencing people. use a better method that can maybe gain some respect for you because right now, no one has any for you.

"Luckily Netherlands won anyways" <-- are you serious? think about this quote

you're right. it is very lucky netherlands won because if they lost because the shitstorm would be 50x greater.


Im actually going to post this because this is absolutely disgusting behaviour for a mod. just such a childish way of handling things.

*I understand that it must be unbelievably stressful from the feedback of the community (even myself) but you're just not allowed to do this. its nothing more than abusing your power. Im sure its just plain frustrating when people dont listen to you but you need to think about your actions and what consequences may come from them. please. please.
Onii-chan
First of all, thanks for the reply, Loctav! Really appreciate it.

But I can see why community is upset at the way the tournament is ran.
I won't go over the multi-account and OWC-ban because it's been done to death already and if Eph's word is worth anything then it will be handled differently in the next OWC's (if they happen, that is).
Another issue you addresed already, needless silences in the lobby and barring from further play. As long as you tone it down and 'chill', I think it should get better. Try to be friendlier with players, if the only memories they have from the tournament is silences and the war of community vs staff then players won't want to play in the next OWC's and the community won't want to support it any further.

Now for the issues that I don't think have been addresed:
Tone down the twitch chat moderation, come on. It's twitch chat, you cannot expect 100% positive feedback and friendly discussion. Allow memes, emotes, don't blacklist words (Cookiezi). Allow the chat to have some fun, if they start spamming, laugh at it, they'll stop in a few minutes. There won't be riots if you do stuff properly. Getting on popular streamer's bad side can't end with anything else than the death of the chat.
The biggest problem I have is censorship and shuffling all the problems under the rug. Trying to make the tournament look good while being bad. The casters don't mention any bancho problems or players getting barred from play. "What a surprise! Taiwan was so good last year and now they lost vs Ukraine!", suure, I wonder why. Happystick obviously disconnected because of Bancho's fault, looks obvious enough to anyone who watched his stream, and you told him to shut down any net applications/the stream to fix it. Fartownik got perma banned from osulive chat because he said it was bancho's fault that Happystick dc'd. The community appreciates transparency.

Cheers.
Cola
I pretty much agree with what Welil states here.
There are just a lot of unadressed issues here, even with that apology from Loctav.

By the way isn't it an option to just tell people to speed up in a nicer way than just pushing timelimits?
If you're getting told you have a minute to decide, you can pretty much only do a snap decision after 3 seconds. Its not like you can really discuss anything because you put the player in a pressured situation.
The better way in my opinion is to write stuff like: "guys can you speed up, the viewers are waiting." and such.
This way people will speed up (unless they are purposely mean) and they dont get pressured more than nescessary.

The point about twitch chat/censorship has already been made, but also try taking it into account, since it really lowers enjoyment a lot to know that stuff gets hidden/ you cant express your opinion properly in a livechat.
Onii-chan
What Cola said, I think it would leave a better taste for both sides if you said something like "Hurry guys, please. We're tight on schedule". Or "Guys, let's stay respectful" instead of "If you tell me to chill one more time I'll silence you".
-Ryuujii-

Welil wrote:

What Cola said, I think it would leave a better taste for both sides if you said something like "Hurry guys, please. We're tight on schedule". Or "Guys, let's stay respectful" instead of "If you tell me to chill one more time I'll silence you".
haha you have no idea how stressful it is to handle a tournament do you..
Cola

-Ryuujii- wrote:

Welil wrote:

What Cola said, I think it would leave a better taste for both sides if you said something like "Hurry guys, please. We're tight on schedule". Or "Guys, let's stay respectful" instead of "If you tell me to chill one more time I'll silence you".
haha you have no idea how stressful it is to handle a tournament do you..
Stressful or not, its always cleaner to try a nice solution before throwing around with threats.
Lust

Cola wrote:

Stressful or not, its always cleaner to try a nice solution before throwing around with threats.
And you think they haven't tried? The only reason why things boil down the way they do is because being nice doesn't work out the first time. Throwing around idealism in a setting like this will not work often.
uee
All of this 'Disconnects shouldn't count and should replay' is all well and good but let's say that a team is doing shit and one player, regardless of anyone else on the team, unplugs his router so a restart happens. Not only is this cheating, and somewhat unfair, it wastes everyone's time.
If there was some sort of limit on it, like 'You can have 3 restarts per match if a player disconnects' then that may help the problem. However, let's say that one or two players unplug their routers to get a restart, then someone legit disconnects. It's the same problem, but somewhat worse.
Makan1
@ryuujii and whoever bothers to read this

There are better methods that dont result in diminishing every bit of respect every OWC fan has for you and effectively getting the entire community to hate you.
and what Welil and Cola said is one of them. talk with the players and try to be lenient and 'nice' instead of forcefully asserting your dominance and censoring every single person who dares talk about it. What on earth do you even gain from doing that.

Twitch Chat

the strategy is to suppress the voice of thousands of people for "spamming" and when you set them free, you immediately suppress them again because the pressure released came out too strong. like ???? what are you even doing???? what Welil wrote about twitch chat was completely on point and I say good job! thats exactly how it should be done.

and handling a tournament is stressful, but handling a tournament is even more stressful when everyone hates or is flaming at you and your co-workers (mainly your fault to begin with) but that is still no reason to act childish. how Loctav argued in my last post is exactly how a Minecraft Admin would do it. pathetic. shows unprofessional-ism when they tried to make this tournament overly professional.


i'll laugh if this gets removed because it only proves my point which I made in my last post. :3 but I see no reason why it should.

this is my last post ill make on this whole topic. dont worry. my discussion ends here. : )
Pannari

Makan1 wrote:

@ryuujii and whoever bothers to read this

There are better methods that dont result in diminishing every bit of respect every OWC fan has for you and effectively getting the entire community to hate you.
and what Welil and Cola said is one of them. talk with the players and try to be lenient and 'nice' instead of forcefully asserting your dominance and censoring every single person who dares talk about it. What on earth do you even gain from doing that.

Twitch Chat

the strategy is to suppress the voice of thousands of people for "spamming" and when you set them free, you immediately suppress them again because the pressure released came out too strong. like ???? what are you even doing???? what Welil wrote about twitch chat was completely on point and I say good job! thats exactly how it should be done.

and handling a tournament is stressful, but handling a tournament is even more stressful when everyone hates or is flaming at you and your co-workers (mainly your fault to begin with) but that is still no reason to act childish. how Loctav argued in my last post is exactly how a Minecraft Admin would do it. pathetic. shows unprofessional-ism when they tried to make this tournament overly professional.


i'll laugh if this gets removed because it only proves my point which I made in my last post. :3 but I see no reason why it should.

this is my last post ill make on this whole topic. dont worry. my discussion ends here. : )
Blaming the staff when the players are acting like 12-year olds even when the schedules are tight will get you absolutely nowhere.
Try looking at this from the staff's perspective.
Xayne

Lust wrote:

Cola wrote:

Stressful or not, its always cleaner to try a nice solution before throwing around with threats.
And you think they haven't tried? The only reason why things boil down the way they do is because being nice doesn't work out the first time. Throwing around idealism in a setting like this will not work often.
And completely ignoring all suggestions in the idealism will lead to things never changing.

The attitude from the administration is that of a spoiled 16 year old girl. Nothing is their fault and everyone should change to suit their preferred way of running things. We've gotten an apology for an outburst. That's it. Everything else has been excuses. Justification for rash actions is not what is needed. The fact they even try to justify the shitstorm going on speaks volumes. From refusing to take blame for awful Bancho connectivity, to twitch chat moderation, to player management, this has been a dumpster fire.

If a consumer wants a product, but the product doesn't perform its duty, the consumer will call the manufacturer for an explanation. If the only explanation they get is excuses for the broken product, why would the consumer ever go back to that company for anything ever again? It's the exact same concept here. Stop making excuses for yourselves and fix your product.
Gigo

Pannari wrote:

Blaming the staff when the players are acting like 12-year olds even when the schedules are tight will get you absolutely nowhere.
Try looking at this from the staff's perspective.
Schedules are only tight for the group stages. You have a lot more breathing space when you come to the direct elimination stages.
Xayne

Gigo wrote:

Pannari wrote:

Blaming the staff when the players are acting like 12-year olds even when the schedules are tight will get you absolutely nowhere.
Try looking at this from the staff's perspective.
Schedules are only tight for the group stages. You have a lot more breathing space when you come to the direct elimination stages.
This. There was a 4 hour break between Japan/Sweden and Poland/France. There's nothing tight about that schedule.
Cherry Blossom
FIRETRUCK LEWANDOSKI, BENZEMA IS SUPPOSED TO BE BETTER ;w;
RIP France ;w;
GG Poland.
Chewin
Can anyone explain me this:



Tom SS 1447 combo. I didn't SS but I have more combo and more score than him. Mh. Wat xD Bug?
Andrea
Guess it's a bug or something like that, look at me and sayo here for example.

Saoji

Andrea wrote:

Guess it's a bug or something like that, look at me and sayo here for example.

A hack or something *-*
Chewin
Uh okay.

EDIT: LOL YALES, maybe?
J V
Spinners hidden power ?
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