1. osu! forums
  2. Beatmaps
  3. Beatmap Graveyard
posted
Tar Curunir
00:17:007 - add a LN here. there' s a very clear sound here, why not map it the same way you did the ones before?
I didn't map this one the same due to the different dominant sound. While I realize this might through some off and I would like a suggestion on how to fix that while not undermining the dominant sound


00:29:273 (29273|1) - move this to the blue tick. you can hear the beat land there if you slow it down to 25%
ok


00:28:363 (28363|2,28416|0,28791|0,28845|2) - rhythm emphasis in this section lies on the white and red ticks. i like the idea of the doubles, but there's no sound that calls for it.
I was going for grace notes to symbolize the sound, but your previous suggestion kinda broke that since there are some sounds too close to allow it. Ok


00:30:934 (30934|2) - this LN should only reach until the blue tick.
ok

00:30:934 (30934|2,31148|0,31255|3,31309|1,31416|2,31523|1,31577|2) - this pattern works just barely. it's really confusing to play and only makes sense if you open it in the editor. I'd simplify it and stick to 1/4 beats.
remapped

00:31:791 (31791|1) - add a note in column 1 with this LN.
remapped

00:32:916 (32916|3,32969|0,33023|2,33130|1,33130|3) - again, really confusing to play.
remapped

00:33:505 (33505|3) - add a note in column 1 with this LN.
remapped

00:34:308 (34308|3,34362|0,34469|1,34576|0,34576|2,34683|3,34737|0,34844|1,34897|3,34951|0) - same confusing pattern here. I won't mention it anymore since this is what you were going for, but i'd consider a change.
remapped

00:35:005 (35005|2) - remove this note. You didn't add one in the previous patterns. why here?
ok

00:35:219 (35219|3) - add note in col 1.
ok

00:36:719 (36719|0,36879|1,36933|0) - this seems out of place considering it's a LN in every other instance.
ok

00:37:147 - add a note in col 2
remapped

00:38:968 - add a note in col 3
remapped

00:39:450 (39450|3,39557|0,39557|2) - this is a pretty good example. the two strongest sounds in this section fall on the blue and white tick.
remapped

00:40:575 - suggestion: https://puu.sh/x1sLP/50ac0e38a0.png
ok

00:46:146 - add a note in col 2
no


00:48:074 (48074|2,48074|3) - i don't see any value in these LNs. There's not even a special sound here.
00:50:216 - remap the section before so you can add a note here. map this the same way you mapped 00:46:788 (46788|2,46788|0,46788|1,47003|2,47217|0,47217|1,47217|3)
00:50:431 (50431|1) - that includes removing this note.
00:57:287 (57287|2,57447|1) - i suggest making this a long note until the white tick. It's acceptable in the other instances where you used a similar pattern, but the music here only warrants a slider imo.
01:03:929 (63929|1,64036|0,64143|1,64304|2) - same thing here, add two LNs (or three if you want to mimick the same pattern as before.
01:10:785 (70785|0,70785|3,70892|1,70999|2,70999|0,71160|3) - ^
01:13:784 (73784|0,73784|3,73998|3,73998|0) - suggestion: https://puu.sh/x50Ef/0f48960c6c.png these double sounds here are by far the most intense and most inuitive to play.
01:15:659 (75659|2,75820|2,76034|2,76302|2) - too much emphasis in col 3. there's almost no note in col 1, change that
01:17:855 - really strong sound on the red tick here. a triple note here would work nicely.
01:21:337 (81337|2) - what sound is this LN snapped to?
Remapped most of these parts


01:27:496 (87496|1,87603|3,87657|1,87764|3,87871|1,87978|2,88032|0,88086|3,88139|1) - suggestion: https://puu.sh/x51p9/7a7279c606.png again really strong sound on those white and red ticks. on top of that i prefer the rhythm of the singles here. not sure how playable it is though.
remapped

01:41:637 (101637|1) - i like the SV here a lot. fits the music nicely, but the tempo change is a bit too sudden imo, especially since this is the only time the SV changes at all in this map. If you want to keep this gimmick you have to introduce some leaner SV changes beforehand.
Yes I am aware of this and need to look into that


01:55:242 (115242|3,115296|2,115349|1,115403|0,115456|2,115510|3,115563|0,115617|1,115670|3,115724|0) - what sounds are these singles representing?
The wooshing

01:55:778 (115778|2,115992|3,116206|0,116420|3) - all the sliders in this muisic section should have the same length
Different length for different pitches + added reading difficulty

02:12:703 (132703|2,132703|0) - remove these 2 notes and replace them with a LN in col 4
single note instead

02:16:132 (136132|3) - move to col 3 and make it a LN instead like i mentioned above
But the jack before that?

02:19:560 (139560|0) - ^
nope

02:19:774 (139774|2) - reduce LN length to red tick
ok

02:20:202 (140202|2) - and make this LN the same length as the other one since it's the same sound
ok

02:19:774 (139774|0) - make this LN longer instead. it should meet up with the next LN
ok


02:25:773 (145773|1,145987|1,146094|3,146201|0,146308|3,146416|2) - suggestion: https://puu.sh/x550U/3d491364b6.png I'd map all relevant sections like this for the music here. fits better imo with the LNs
ok

02:37:128 - there should be a note here
ok

02:39:378 - place a note or LN here to lead into the next part
ok

03:06:861 - there's a sound here which could be mapped to reflect the music better, but it's not a dealbreaker
all I can say is: interesting timestamp

03:07:338 (187338|1,187338|2,187552|0,187552|3) - i feel like these should be LNs instead
or a roll

03:21:050 - this would be a nice spot to add some SV changes like you did before. It's even kind of the same sound effect
ok
TheNewBungping
00:42:932 add a note for consistency in heaviness
remapped, but did the heaviness

01:53:635 ^
remapped, but did the heaviness

02:34:343 ^
ok

01:26:639 - 01:28:353 like this would be less confuse for players to play https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8741690
ok

02:04:348 - 02:07:776 like this for balance https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8741649 https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8741655
ok
KcHecKa
00:58:679 (58679|1,58733|3,58787|0,58840|2,58947|3,59001|0,59161|3,59161|1,59215|2,59215|0) - what the fuck happened right here?

01:42:494 (102494|0,102494|3) - notice how you have 2 notes on this tick (music is clap noise)

01:44:208 (104208|2) - this tick mark is also the same sound but only 1 note? perhaps you should keep this section a bit more consistent??

02:15:489 (135489|0,135489|2,135596|3,135596|1) - whats with the variation between this these notes and 02:11:204 (131204|2,131632|0,132061|3,132061|1) -

Remapped most of the streams
posted
HI!!!! Sorry I couldn't mod it yesterday, I had some problems irl. Here's your mod!

First things first, add hitsounds!!! And also, I won't always say to add notes on times where I think there should be but there aren't any, because I'll assume you intentionally did it.


Eternal Raver
  1. 00:28:416 (28416|0) - Move it on the white thick.
  2. 00:28:416 (28416|0,32755|0,32755|2,33130|3,33130|1) - Why the doubles? The sound of the synth is pretty much the same as the single notes around it. (I know, we already talk about that in-game, but I really think you should still try to do it, to put doubles or triples on louder sounds and stuff like that). Since there's a lot of things like that in the diff, I'll just mention them every now and then.
  3. 00:32:916 (32916|1,33023|2,33130|1,33130|3) - Move all of those notes up of one thick.
  4. 00:34:469 (34469|1) - Delete that note. There's no sound that goes with it.
  5. Ok so just that I don't repeat the same things I already said, there's no sounds in 1/8 (except for the end pf some of your LNs until 00:39:932 (and certainly not in 1/16 like this note 00:36:852 (36852|3) - , so you should rearrange your notes and put them only in 1/4, on the blue, red and white thicks.
  6. 00:36:933 Again, with that double-triple thing, you could add a triple here since compared to this 00:37:361 (37361|0,37361|3) -, there's a much louder sound.
  7. 00:39:932 to 00:40:361 This is in 1/8!
  8. 00:43:575 (43575|0,43628|3,43682|1,43789|2,43789|0) - This is also in 1/8.
  9. 00:46:146 (46146|2) - Make this at least a double.
  10. I'll just say it now, the big majority of your beatmap should be in 1/4. The only part that should be in 1/8 are 02:33:057 to 02:33:486 and from 02:36:485 to 02:36:914. That and end of some of your Lns. Snap everything else in 1/4. Yes, this also means the patterns you did like this 01:37:352 (97352|3,97388|2,97423|1,97459|0,97495|3,97566|1,97602|2,97638|3,97673|0,97727|1,97780|2) - You could replace them by LN.
  11. Exception: 01:54:840 (114840|3,114840|1) - and 03:06:829 (186829|2,186829|1) - That, like it want to contradict what I just said, they are in 1/16 like this.
  12. 01:29:532 (89532|2) - Delete that note.
  13. 01:28:353 (88353|0,88782|3) - Those LNs, shouldn't they be more like that, because the sound that would go with them are there.
  14. 02:09:061 (129061|1,129168|0,129275|3,129383|1) - There's no reason to change the pattern here. Do this just like you were doing before.
  15. 02:12:168 (132168|2) - This should be a simple note and I'm not sure about that Ln 02:12:489 (132489|0) -, feels weird.
  16. 02:15:489 Try to make a pattern similar to the previous one or vice-versa.
  17. 02:25:773 (145773|1) - This should be a LN it should be simple notes. One at the start and one at the end (maybe not in the same column, tho).
  18. 02:29:094 Again, try to be more consistent in your patterns.
  19. 02:39:512 (159512|2) - ? I don't know if that's intentional, but it's clearly misnapped. Start the LN on the white thick.
  20. 02:39:914 (159914|3) - Make that Ln as long as this one 02:39:914 (159914|1) -
  21. 02:40:235 (160235|2) - Delete that note.
  22. 03:17:140 (197140|1) - ^
  23. 03:23:192 The Lns from this time, they don't really make sense. You should just replace them by Lns that start at this time and ends at the end of the beatmap.


So basically, the big problem of this beatmap is the snapping of the notes. Like I said in the mods, almost the whole beatmap should be in 1/4. That, unnecessary doubles and stuff, patterns, etc. A lot of work will have to be done on this diff.


So that's all for my mod. Good luck with the beatmap. There might be still a lot of work to do on it, but you can do it. ;)
posted

_Stronger_ wrote:

First things first, add hitsounds!!!
Not really necessary. Imo maps are played better w/o them unless it's a 100% hitsounded map


_Stronger_ wrote:

Ok
00:28:416 (28416|0) - Move it on the white thick.

Burst stream. I want there to be an accelerated flow there
00:28:416 (28416|0,32755|0,32755|2,33130|3,33130|1) - Why the doubles? The sound of the synth is pretty much the same as the single notes around it. (I know, we already talk about that in-game, but I really think you should still try to do it, to put doubles or triples on louder sounds and stuff like that). Since there's a lot of things like that in the diff, I'll just mention them every now and then.

This will be quite destroying the design. I see that the notes are off-sync because of it, but I really want the 1/8 offset there for the flow. Imo it plays fine like that, tho I need a better mapper's advice if I am to somehow keep the flow and make it sync
00:32:916 (32916|1,33023|2,33130|1,33130|3) - Move all of those notes up of one thick.

Such the nature of dumps. Problem with less experienced players is they haven't gotten to the point where they play enough dump maps to know that there are styles of mapping that just have notes even if there are no sounds, mixed with 1/8,1/6,1/12, etc snapping which make no sense until you actually play it. And that is if you are advanced enough to be able to play it.
00:34:469 (34469|1) - Delete that note. There's no sound that goes with it.
Ok so just that I don't repeat the same things I already said, there's no sounds in 1/8 (except for the end pf some of your LNs until 00:39:932 (and certainly not in 1/16 like this note 00:36:852 (36852|3) - , so you should rearrange your notes and put them only in 1/4, on the blue, red and white thicks.
00:36:933 Again, with that double-triple thing, you could add a triple here since compared to this 00:37:361 (37361|0,37361|3) -, there's a much louder sound.

So? It's a drum roll. Does 1/8 scare you so much?
00:39:932 to 00:40:361 This is in 1/8!

Buildup and accelerated flow
00:43:575 (43575|0,43628|3,43682|1,43789|2,43789|0) - This is also in 1/8.

That will be a hard read and make no sense. There is a 1/4 hold note right there and make the 12 finger motion at that spot is when you are trying to map out a beat is just wrong.
00:46:146 (46146|2) - Make this at least a double.

Already explained this. This map should be rated around 4.4* btw, it's heavily underrated
I'll just say it now, the big majority of your beatmap should be in 1/4. The only part that should be in 1/8 are 02:33:057 to 02:33:486 and from 02:36:485 to 02:36:914. That and end of some of your Lns. Snap everything else in 1/4. Yes, this also means the patterns you did like this 01:37:352 (97352|3,97388|2,97423|1,97459|0,97495|3,97566|1,97602|2,97638|3,97673|0,97727|1,97780|2) - You could replace them by LN.
Exception: 01:54:840 (114840|3,114840|1) - and 03:06:829 (186829|2,186829|1) - That, like it want to contradict what I just said, they are in 1/16 like this.

While there is no double beat, I am forcing there to be one
01:29:532 (89532|2) - Delete that note.

True, but then those double taps are going to be harder than it is enjoyable. I value playability over consistency.
01:28:353 (88353|0,88782|3) - Those LNs, shouldn't they be more like that, because the sound that would go with them are there.

Got boring. You need at least some variance, and why note make some when the new sound gets added in?
02:09:061 (129061|1,129168|0,129275|3,129383|1) - There's no reason to change the pattern here. Do this just like you were doing before.

Yes you are the second player who said that. More advanced players have no problem with this.
02:12:168 (132168|2) - This should be a simple note and I'm not sure about that Ln 02:12:489 (132489|0) -, feels weird.

Which one?
02:15:489 Try to make a pattern similar to the previous one or vice-versa.

???
02:25:773 (145773|1) - This should be a LN it should be simple notes. One at the start and one at the end (maybe not in the same column, tho).

That what makes the current mapping meta suck so much lol. You look too much at the editor instead the enjoyability of playing it
02:29:094 Again, try to be more consistent in your patterns.

Yea that look interesting. I might have done that on purpose, but I can't remember what for, so fixed now.
02:39:512 (159512|2) - ? I don't know if that's intentional, but it's clearly misnapped. Start the LN on the white thick.

Nope, just look at that beautiful pattern with the single notes 1/8 snap to the left of each
02:39:914 (159914|3) - Make that Ln as long as this one 02:39:914 (159914|1) -
02:40:235 (160235|2) - Delete that note.

And the other similiar patterns before this like at 03:13:712 (193712|2) - and 03:10:284 (190284|2) - ?
03:17:140 (197140|1) - ^

Yea I agree, but you suggest is too plain. Need something better than that.
03:23:192 The Lns from this time, they don't really make sense. You should just replace them by Lns that start at this time and ends at the end of the beatmap.
posted
Hello, I read _Stronger_'s mod and I dont really understand why you rejected most of his suggestions. So, I will try to explain them and try to explain you the problem
stuff

abraker wrote:

_Stronger_ wrote:

First things first, add hitsounds!!!
Not really necessary. Imo maps are played better w/o them unless it's a 100% hitsounded map
Hitsounds are necessary if you are aiming for rank, ranking criteria says that all maps have to be fully hitsounded

_Stronger_ wrote:

Ok
00:28:416 (28416|0) - Move it on the white thick.

Burst stream. I want there to be an accelerated flow there
00:28:416 (28416|0,32755|0,32755|2,33130|3,33130|1) - Why the doubles? The sound of the synth is pretty much the same as the single notes around it. (I know, we already talk about that in-game, but I really think you should still try to do it, to put doubles or triples on louder sounds and stuff like that). Since there's a lot of things like that in the diff, I'll just mention them every now and then.
The map version i have does not have any burst streams as you mentioned, aslo you should add a double or single note at 00:28:639 - because you missed a sound there

This will be quite destroying the design. I see that the notes are off-sync because of it, but I really want the 1/8 offset there for the flow. Imo it plays fine like that, tho I need a better mapper's advice if I am to somehow keep the flow and make it sync
00:32:916 (32916|1,33023|2,33130|1,33130|3) - Move all of those notes up of one thick.
ALL NOTES MUST BE PERFECTLY TIMES, you could always change the design of the map, here is one for an example click
Such the nature of dumps. Problem with less experienced players is they haven't gotten to the point where they play enough dump maps to know that there are styles of mapping that just have notes even if there are no sounds, mixed with 1/8,1/6,1/12, etc snapping which make no sense until you actually play it. And that is if you are advanced enough to be able to play it.
00:34:469 (34469|1) - Delete that note. There's no sound that goes with it.
I must agree with stronger here, You MUST delete that note because there is NO sound that supports it and all notes must be supported by a sound
Ok so just that I don't repeat the same things I already said, there's no sounds in 1/8 (except for the end pf some of your LNs until 00:39:932 (and certainly not in 1/16 like this note 00:36:852 (36852|3) - , so you should rearrange your notes and put them only in 1/4, on the blue, red and white thicks.
00:36:933 Again, with that double-triple thing, you could add a triple here since compared to this 00:37:361 (37361|0,37361|3) -, there's a much louder sound.

So? It's a drum roll. Does 1/8 scare you so much?
00:39:932 to 00:40:361 This is in 1/8!
You should map that drumroll, exsample click

Buildup and accelerated flow
00:43:575 (43575|0,43628|3,43682|1,43789|2,43789|0) - This is also in 1/8.
Flow should be okay with 1/8 pattern too

That will be a hard read and make no sense. There is a 1/4 hold note right there and make the 12 finger motion at that spot is when you are trying to map out a beat is just wrong.
00:46:146 (46146|2) - Make this at least a double.
It wouldn't be hard to read if you add a note at column 2, it plays perfectly fine

Already explained this. This map should be rated around 4.4* btw, it's heavily underrated
I'll just say it now, the big majority of your beatmap should be in 1/4. The only part that should be in 1/8 are 02:33:057 to 02:33:486 and from 02:36:485 to 02:36:914. That and end of some of your Lns. Snap everything else in 1/4. Yes, this also means the patterns you did like this 01:37:352 (97352|3,97388|2,97423|1,97459|0,97495|3,97566|1,97602|2,97638|3,97673|0,97727|1,97780|2) - You could replace them by LN.
Exception: 01:54:840 (114840|3,114840|1) - and 03:06:829 (186829|2,186829|1) - That, like it want to contradict what I just said, they are in 1/16 like this.
1/8 mapping gets a bigger SR so you should listen to stronger's suggestion

While there is no double beat, I am forcing there to be one
01:29:532 (89532|2) - Delete that note.
You cant force something that is not there, you should remove the not because there is no sound that follows it

True, but then those double taps are going to be harder than it is enjoyable. I value playability over consistency.
01:28:353 (88353|0,88782|3) - Those LNs, shouldn't they be more like that, because the sound that would go with them are there.
no idea what both of you said here

Got boring. You need at least some variance, and why note make some when the new sound gets added in?
02:09:061 (129061|1,129168|0,129275|3,129383|1) - There's no reason to change the pattern here. Do this just like you were doing before.
thats unconsistent and if you are planing to rank this mape apply Stronger's suggestion because map wont get ranked if there is no consistency on the patterns

Yes you are the second player who said that. More advanced players have no problem with this.
02:12:168 (132168|2) - This should be a simple note and I'm not sure about that Ln 02:12:489 (132489|0) -, feels weird.
Meybe advanced players have no problems with that, but QAT and BN members have

Which one?
02:15:489 Try to make a pattern similar to the previous one or vice-versa.
He was saying that its not consistent and he was talking about this previous pattern 02:12:061 -

???
02:25:773 (145773|1) - This should be a LN it should be simple notes. One at the start and one at the end (maybe not in the same column, tho).
he was talking about this
That what makes the current mapping meta suck so much lol. You look too much at the editor instead the enjoyability of playing it
02:29:094 Again, try to be more consistent in your patterns.
[b]You need consistent patterns or the map wont get ranked as I said before, you can always re-arange the notes but you must have the similar pattern for consistency


Yea that look interesting. I might have done that on purpose, but I can't remember what for, so fixed now.
02:39:512 (159512|2) - ? I don't know if that's intentional, but it's clearly misnapped. Start the LN on the white thick.

Nope, just look at that beautiful pattern with the single notes 1/8 snap to the left of each
02:39:914 (159914|3) - Make that Ln as long as this one 02:39:914 (159914|1) -
02:40:235 (160235|2) - Delete that note.
that pattern is actully very ugly and weird to play

And the other similiar patterns before this like at 03:13:712 (193712|2) - and 03:10:284 (190284|2) - ?
03:17:140 (197140|1) - ^

Yea I agree, but you suggest is too plain. Need something better than that.
03:23:192 The Lns from this time, they don't really make sense. You should just replace them by Lns that start at this time and ends at the end of the beatmap.
I wont even say anything about this
posted

Umo- wrote:

_Stronger_ wrote:

01:28:353 (88353|0,88782|3) - Those LNs, shouldn't they be more like that, because the sound that would go with them are there.
no idea what both of you said here
I wanted to add a link to a pic on the word "that" but totally forgot to add it.
posted

Umo- wrote:

Hitsounds are necessary if you are aiming for rank, ranking criteria says that all maps have to be fully hitsounded
Please give link to this rule.

Umo- wrote:

This will be quite destroying the design. I see that the notes are off-sync because of it, but I really want the 1/8 offset there for the flow. Imo it plays fine like that, tho I need a better mapper's advice if I am to somehow keep the flow and make it sync
00:32:916 (32916|1,33023|2,33130|1,33130|3) - Move all of those notes up of one thick.
ALL NOTES MUST BE PERFECTLY TIMES, you could always change the design of the map, here is one for an example click
From the mania ranking rules in here:
Every note must be clearly assignable to a musical layer or layer unit it tries to represent. This may either be the exact placement of noises within this layer or the silhouette of its movement, and it may be an attempt to replicate the noise behavior either visually or to make the player execute the motion that would paint the layer or layer unit as its best.
The pattern falls under the bolded part


Umo- wrote:

I must agree with stronger here, You MUST delete that note because there is NO sound that supports it and all notes must be supported by a sound
Ok so just that I don't repeat the same things I already said, there's no sounds in 1/8 (except for the end pf some of your LNs until 00:39:932 (and certainly not in 1/16 like this note 00:36:852 (36852|3) - , so you should rearrange your notes and put them only in 1/4, on the blue, red and white thicks.
00:36:933 Again, with that double-triple thing, you could add a triple here since compared to this 00:37:361 (37361|0,37361|3) -, there's a much louder sound.
Refer to the rule I quoted. Also I play that pattern perfectly fine every time, nothing there trips me up.

Umo- wrote:

So? It's a drum roll. Does 1/8 scare you so much?
00:39:932 to 00:40:361 This is in 1/8!
You should map that drumroll, exsample click
The use of interchanging 1/4 snaps for both hands makes the 1/8 pattern: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8897746
I can change it to what you propose, but I just want to a better argument than that. Try to speak in terms of a player playing the pattern instead of a mapper looking in the editor trying to match notes and sounds 1:1

Umo- wrote:

Buildup and accelerated flow
00:43:575 (43575|0,43628|3,43682|1,43789|2,43789|0) - This is also in 1/8.
Flow should be okay with 1/8 pattern too
Just want to make sure we are looking at the same thing: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8897778
There is a 1/8 roll there, but a slow it down for the longer synth at the very end and to have a better transition into those alternations with hold notes

Umo- wrote:

That will be a hard read and make no sense. There is a 1/4 hold note right there and make the 12 finger motion at that spot is when you are trying to map out a beat is just wrong.
00:46:146 (46146|2) - Make this at least a double.
It wouldn't be hard to read if you add a note at column 2, it plays perfectly fine
I tried it and yea, it actually works. Worried for nothing. Added. Perfect example of how theory =/= practice

Umo- wrote:

Already explained this. This map should be rated around 4.4* btw, it's heavily underrated
I'll just say it now, the big majority of your beatmap should be in 1/4. The only part that should be in 1/8 are 02:33:057 to 02:33:486 and from 02:36:485 to 02:36:914. That and end of some of your Lns. Snap everything else in 1/4. Yes, this also means the patterns you did like this 01:37:352 (97352|3,97388|2,97423|1,97459|0,97495|3,97566|1,97602|2,97638|3,97673|0,97727|1,97780|2) - You could replace them by LN.
Exception: 01:54:840 (114840|3,114840|1) - and 03:06:829 (186829|2,186829|1) - That, like it want to contradict what I just said, they are in 1/16 like this.
1/8 mapping gets a bigger SR so you should listen to stronger's suggestion
I am not aiming for higher SR

Umo- wrote:

While there is no double beat, I am forcing there to be one
01:29:532 (89532|2) - Delete that note.
You cant force something that is not there, you should remove the not because there is no sound that follows it
Here are a couple examples that work great with no sounds following it:

https://osu.ppy.sh/b/560731
00:41:446 (41446|3,41446|2,41618|1,41789|0,41789|3,41961|0,42132|2,42132|1,42303|1,42475|3,42475|0,42646|2,42818|3,42818|0,42818|1) -

https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1008551
A lot of this map

https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1015659
The entire map

And I argue they work great because of how the rhythmic tapping and finger flow of that pattern works. You have the double tap which then flows into the hold note in the 2,2,1 or 3,3,4 motion, and the hold note ends early enough to let the player prepare for the next double tap. And it tricks the player into thinking all of those parts have the double beating throughout the coarse of the pattern, which works in its favor.


Umo- wrote:

True, but then those double taps are going to be harder than it is enjoyable. I value playability over consistency.
01:28:353 (88353|0,88782|3) - Those LNs, shouldn't they be more like that, because the sound that would go with them are there.
no idea what both of you said here
I believe he wanted to make the LN longer, but I am not sure myself.

Umo- wrote:

Got boring. You need at least some variance, and why note make some when the new sound gets added in?
02:09:061 (129061|1,129168|0,129275|3,129383|1) - There's no reason to change the pattern here. Do this just like you were doing before.
thats unconsistent and if you are planing to rank this mape apply Stronger's suggestion because map wont get ranked if there is no consistency on the patterns
I think the pattern change is justified.

Umo- wrote:

Yes you are the second player who said that. More advanced players have no problem with this.
02:12:168 (132168|2) - This should be a simple note and I'm not sure about that Ln 02:12:489 (132489|0) -, feels weird.
Meybe advanced players have no problems with that, but QAT and BN members have
SR shouldn't dictate what is acceptable in a map. If it plays nice, it place nice. This is not meant to be a 3.5* and I am not going to force myself to increase the SR just to make it higher. Don't let the poorly made algorithm dictate how a map should be.

Umo- wrote:

???
02:25:773 (145773|1) - This should be a LN it should be simple notes. One at the start and one at the end (maybe not in the same column, tho).
he was talking about this
I didn't have that single note on the right, but I added it now

Umo- wrote:

You need consistent patterns or the map wont get ranked as I said before, you can always re-arange the notes but you must have the similar pattern for consistency
Alright in regards to consistency. Yes, maps need to be consistent when mapping sounds and such. It would make sense to use a hold note for a sound and then a single note for the same sound a second later. I becomes weird when using a completely different pattern structure for a similar motif. However, those LN going back and forth are going to get boring after some time. The closest area where it makes sense to change things up a bit is when the no sound gets introduced at 02:09:490 which is more dominant than the sounds coming before it due it being louder and sounding like a triangle wave or some equivalent. I then follow that sound instead. If you can come up with a pattern that doesn't make it boring as I described, be my guest.

Umo- wrote:

Nope, just look at that beautiful pattern with the single notes 1/8 snap to the left of each
02:39:914 (159914|3) - Make that Ln as long as this one 02:39:914 (159914|1) -
02:40:235 (160235|2) - Delete that note.
that pattern is actully very ugly and weird to play
Strange I think it's looks nice and plays well. Not only it follows the synth, but it lets the left hand flick before the chord and the right hand to perform a trill right before the initial beat/start of the main motif.

Umo- wrote:

Yea I agree, but you suggest is too plain. Need something better than that.
03:23:192 The Lns from this time, they don't really make sense. You should just replace them by Lns that start at this time and ends at the end of the beatmap.
I wont even say anything about this
Nothing is needed to be said. I think I fixed it unless you were looking at the newest version. In that case, uhhhh?
posted
Stuff
Stuff indeed

abraker wrote:

Umo- wrote:

Hitsounds are necessary if you are aiming for rank, ranking criteria says that all maps have to be fully hitsounded
Please give link to this rule.
https://osu.ppy.sh/help/wiki/Ranking_Criteria Check in Audio, the fifth point.


Umo- wrote:

This will be quite destroying the design. I see that the notes are off-sync because of it, but I really want the 1/8 offset there for the flow. Imo it plays fine like that, tho I need a better mapper's advice if I am to somehow keep the flow and make it sync
00:32:916 (32916|1,33023|2,33130|1,33130|3) - Move all of those notes up of one thick.
ALL NOTES MUST BE PERFECTLY TIMES, you could always change the design of the map, here is one for an example click
From the mania ranking rules in here:
Every note must be clearly assignable to a musical layer or layer unit it tries to represent. This may either be the exact placement of noises within this layer or the silhouette of its movement, and it may be an attempt to replicate the noise behavior either visually or to make the player execute the motion that would paint the layer or layer unit as its best.
The pattern falls under the bolded part
This doesn't mean that you can misnap notes, the part about replicating the noise behavior is for when the sound wouldn't fit with the timing, for example, in live performance due to the human error. In your beatmap, the sounds clearly are in 1/4. Take any ranked beatmap, then move the offset 10 seconds later or select all the notes and move them of one thick. Would it still be in a rankable state? No, obviously.


Umo- wrote:

I must agree with stronger here, You MUST delete that note because there is NO sound that supports it and all notes must be supported by a sound
Ok so just that I don't repeat the same things I already said, there's no sounds in 1/8 (except for the end pf some of your LNs until 00:39:932 (and certainly not in 1/16 like this note 00:36:852 (36852|3) - , so you should rearrange your notes and put them only in 1/4, on the blue, red and white thicks.
00:36:933 Again, with that double-triple thing, you could add a triple here since compared to this 00:37:361 (37361|0,37361|3) -, there's a much louder sound.
Refer to the rule I quoted. Also I play that pattern perfectly fine every time, nothing there trips me up.
I repeat what I just said. You can't add notes on no sound. EVEN if it's playable.

Umo- wrote:

So? It's a drum roll. Does 1/8 scare you so much?
00:39:932 to 00:40:361 This is in 1/8!
You should map that drumroll, exsample click
The use of interchanging 1/4 snaps for both hands makes the 1/8 pattern: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8897746
I can change it to what you propose, but I just want to a better argument than that. Try to speak in terms of a player playing the pattern instead of a mapper looking in the editor trying to match notes and sounds 1:1
Well here, I really was just saying that there was sounds in 1/8 for those entire 429 milliseconds that you could add notes on. Nothing else.

Umo- wrote:

Buildup and accelerated flow
00:43:575 (43575|0,43628|3,43682|1,43789|2,43789|0) - This is also in 1/8.
Flow should be okay with 1/8 pattern too
Just want to make sure we are looking at the same thing: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8897778
There is a 1/8 roll there, but a slow it down for the longer synth at the very end and to have a better transition into those alternations with hold notes
If you say so, I guess

Umo- wrote:

Already explained this. This map should be rated around 4.4* btw, it's heavily underrated
I'll just say it now, the big majority of your beatmap should be in 1/4. The only part that should be in 1/8 are 02:33:057 to 02:33:486 and from 02:36:485 to 02:36:914. That and end of some of your Lns. Snap everything else in 1/4. Yes, this also means the patterns you did like this 01:37:352 (97352|3,97388|2,97423|1,97459|0,97495|3,97566|1,97602|2,97638|3,97673|0,97727|1,97780|2) - You could replace them by LN.
Exception: 01:54:840 (114840|3,114840|1) - and 03:06:829 (186829|2,186829|1) - That, like it want to contradict what I just said, they are in 1/16 like this.
1/8 mapping gets a bigger SR so you should listen to stronger's suggestion
I am not aiming for higher SR
My point here was that you HAVE to snap your notes correctly, for the same reason as previously mentioned. And I just pointed out which part of your song could be mapped in 1/8 and which one couldn't.

Umo- wrote:

While there is no double beat, I am forcing there to be one
01:29:532 (89532|2) - Delete that note.
You cant force something that is not there, you should remove the not because there is no sound that follows it
Here are a couple examples that work great with no sounds following it:

https://osu.ppy.sh/b/560731
00:41:446 (41446|3,41446|2,41618|1,41789|0,41789|3,41961|0,42132|2,42132|1,42303|1,42475|3,42475|0,42646|2,42818|3,42818|0,42818|1) -
*_Stronger_ slaps his face
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1008551
A lot of this map
*_Stronger_ slaps his face again
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1015659
The entire map
*_Stronger_ slaps his face for a third time
And I argue they work great because of how the rhythmic tapping and finger flow of that pattern works. You have the double tap which then flows into the hold note in the 2,2,1 or 3,3,4 motion, and the hold note ends early enough to let the player prepare for the next double tap. And it tricks the player into thinking all of those parts have the double beating throughout the coarse of the pattern, which works in its favor.
Tell me, are any of the beatmap you linked are ranked?


Umo- wrote:

True, but then those double taps are going to be harder than it is enjoyable. I value playability over consistency.
01:28:353 (88353|0,88782|3) - Those LNs, shouldn't they be more like that, because the sound that would go with them are there.
no idea what both of you said here
I believe he wanted to make the LN longer, but I am not sure myself.
Like I said in my post just above, I wanted to add a link to the word "that" but forgot to do it.

Umo- wrote:

Got boring. You need at least some variance, and why note make some when the new sound gets added in?
02:09:061 (129061|1,129168|0,129275|3,129383|1) - There's no reason to change the pattern here. Do this just like you were doing before.
thats unconsistent and if you are planing to rank this mape apply Stronger's suggestion because map wont get ranked if there is no consistency on the patterns
I think the pattern change is justified.
Not really, but hey, this isn't so bad, even if i still stick to my point.

Umo- wrote:

Yes you are the second player who said that. More advanced players have no problem with this.
02:12:168 (132168|2) - This should be a simple note and I'm not sure about that Ln 02:12:489 (132489|0) -, feels weird.
Meybe advanced players have no problems with that, but QAT and BN members have
SR shouldn't dictate what is acceptable in a map. If it plays nice, it place nice. This is not meant to be a 3.5* and I am not going to force myself to increase the SR just to make it higher. Don't let the poorly made algorithm dictate how a map should be.
Well that poorly algorithm doesn't have anything to do with what me or umo- tried to tell you. It's not because it is hard to play that I pointed out those Lns, but because they felt weird to play. And yes, if bn and QAT have a problem with that, you really should consider my point.

Umo- wrote:

You need consistent patterns or the map wont get ranked as I said before, you can always re-arange the notes but you must have the similar pattern for consistency
Alright in regards to consistency. Yes, maps need to be consistent when mapping sounds and such. It would make sense to use a hold note for a sound and then a single note for the same sound a second later. I becomes weird when using a completely different pattern structure for a similar motif. However, those LN going back and forth are going to get boring after some time. The closest area where it makes sense to change things up a bit is when the no sound gets introduced at 02:09:490 which is more dominant than the sounds coming before it due it being louder and sounding like a triangle wave or some equivalent. I then follow that sound instead. If you can come up with a pattern that doesn't make it boring as I described, be my guest.
Idk what else to say then you should do as umo- said, doing a similar patterns isn't that boring, if you ask me.

Umo- wrote:

Nope, just look at that beautiful pattern with the single notes 1/8 snap to the left of each
02:39:914 (159914|3) - Make that Ln as long as this one 02:39:914 (159914|1) -
02:40:235 (160235|2) - Delete that note.
that pattern is actully very ugly and weird to play
Strange I think it's looks nice and plays well. Not only it follows the synth, but it lets the left hand flick before the chord and the right hand to perform a trill right before the initial beat/start of the main motif.
I don't think we have the same definition of beautiful pattern.

If that doesn't convince you, then idk what else could.
posted

_Stronger_ wrote:

https://osu.ppy.sh/help/wiki/Ranking_Criteria Check in Audio, the fifth point.
I am using default hitsounds that are on 8% volume

_Stronger_ wrote:

This doesn't mean that you can misnap notes, the part about replicating the noise behavior is for when the sound wouldn't fit with the timing, for example, in live performance due to the human error. In your beatmap, the sounds clearly are in 1/4.
You play the general sound at that part.

_Stronger_ wrote:

Take any ranked beatmap, then move the offset 10 seconds later or select all the notes and move them of one thick. Would it still be in a rankable state? No, obviously.
This is a poor argument imo. The "it may be an attempt to replicate the noise behavior either visually or to make the player execute the motion that would paint the layer or layer unit as its best" part of that rule exactly that implies that you can misnap notes if you can make the pattern work nicely that way. I am trying to replicate the noise behavior visually and make the player execute the motion, in this case the flow, the pattern provides. If you still have doubts, look at evening's comment on this rule here. To quote:

Evening wrote:

snoverpk wrote:

i'm not sure if i understood this correctly but does this mean delay streams can be rankable as long as it fits the song or what
Yes, this also includes simplification of the snaps, but take note that the BNs must still be capable of assessing the map if they want to nominate it
I am not making the start of the pattern offset by some amount. In fact, it's timed correctly, you can listen to where it begins and time the hit accordingly. It deviates from being 1:1 with the sound midway through the general pattern. As you are hitting all those notes, it becomes more important to maintain the note rate at which you hit than it is to listen and match the sound you hear. In fact this type of pattern is scattered all throughout the map and is the main design and intent behind this difficulty. I shift the notes by 1/8th meter midway in each stream during the kiai time in the first half and by 1/16 meter every 1/3rd part of each stream in the second section of the map during the kiai time. These patterns are also carefully designed to make a smooth transition to those shifts by having those shifts happen only when changing hand or maintaining similar flow if they happen without changing hand. Just because there are no ranked maps that have this doesn't mean I can't be the first one to attempt get one ranked.

_Stronger_ wrote:

Tell me, are any of the beatmap you linked are ranked?
Their ranking status is irrelevant. Sadly they can never be ranked because they either come from stepmania and are not uploaded by the original mapper, they are insufficient length to be ranked as a single diff, or they are part of a pack of multiple songs. They shouldn't have any patterns that cannot be ranked. If that is the case, there is something terribly wrong with the ranking criteria.

_Stronger_ wrote:

Well that poorly algorithm doesn't have anything to do with what me or umo- tried to tell you. It's not because it is hard to play that I pointed out those Lns, but because they felt weird to play. And yes, if bn and QAT have a problem with that, you really should consider my point.
I played the map more than a dozen of times. I never have a problem with this part.
posted
Stop citing "This is a dump" as a counterargument. The thing is; your patterning is just bad. the map is so repetitive it's not even funny, Sure you can blame this on the song, So why didn't you cut the song or actually pick an interesting song. These patterns aren't innovative or painful or a "technical dumping masterpiece", It's just split jumptrills with grace notes. Not only that but you clearly have no idea how to dump as you're inconsistent as hell with your patterning and map flow. Why are 02:55:768 (175768|0,175768|3,175768|2,176090|1,176197|2,176197|3,176197|0) - the same hand, whereas most of the others aren't? It's the same sound so at least map it to a similar fashion. Don't try and counterargue this with some "it flows better" argument or some shit because this is a (dump) and you can do what you want. 03:24:906 (204906|2,204906|0) - These two notes are just pointless. There isn't anything there, no sound, no patternical flow or logic.

01:41:637 (101637|1) - haha random sv lol.

02:29:094 (149094|2,149308|2) - no triplet here when the sound for it was here 02:25:773 (145773|1,145880|3,145987|1,146094|0,146201|3,146308|2)

the rest of this map is you just moving things off sync onto random snaps and calling it a dump and "your style" like why, This isn't how dumps work. Dumps deviate from the musical choice to make songs that would otherwise be mapped easily to a harder difficulty. Where this map falls is that

1.) It's not hard
2.) It's not consistent
3.) It's just gracenoted split jumptrills for 3 minutes, Which isn't interesting or fun to play atall.


https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Wyi ... 1kYyA/edit <<< read a guide on how to dump.

as for hitsounds; All ranked maps have to be hitsounded. This is just how it is. This map isn't going to change the RC just because you're too lazy to figure out how to hitsound it. Yeah sure most players have hitsounds off but then again players at that tier aren't even playing ranked most of the time simply because of the lack of hard maps.
posted

DDMythical wrote:

The thing is; your patterning is just bad. the map is so repetitive it's not even funny
I tried to mix things up wherever I could, but also tried to maintain a core structure and map around this core structure during kiai times. With the core structure being those repeating hold notes, mapping around the core structure while attempting to offer some for for higher difficulty is a challenge. Well why not then scrap this structure since I clearly don't know how to map harder patterns with it there? It's something I want to keep as a parallel with the Hard diff. What I like to do is decide on this "core structure" and develop it into a more complete picture as the diffs increase. You can see it sort of there in there hard diff, but underdeveloped. You can insist to scrap it, but I believe I can make this work in one way or another.

DDMythical wrote:

Sure you can blame this on the song, So why didn't you cut the song or actually pick an interesting song.
Pretty sure it's not the song and is just my mapping skills.

DDMythical wrote:

Not only that but you clearly have no idea how to dump as you're inconsistent as hell with your patterning and map flow.
I admit, I am not the best mapper out there, and I have started mapping stream/dump patterns not long ago. I obviously need more help with that, and I did apply to the mania mentors program in hopes someone would help me understand more about how make a good stream/dump patterns, but never got to be part of it. If you know someone who can help me in that regard, I'd love to know more.

DDMythical wrote:

Why are 02:55:768 (175768|0,175768|3,175768|2,176090|1,176197|2,176197|3,176197|0) - the same hand, whereas most of the others aren't? It's the same sound so at least map it to a similar fashion.
I probably need to be more consistent in that regard now that you mention it. I'll go back to fix that in the next few weeks.

DDMythical wrote:

03:24:906 (204906|2,204906|0) - These two notes are just pointless
I thought I heard something there when I mapped it, but I'll remove those now. I also don't believe this is the best LN pattern to end the map off either, and have trouble coming up with a better alternative.

DDMythical wrote:

01:41:637 (101637|1) - haha random sv lol.
I wanted to put another SV and the end of the map at 03:21:050, but couldn't figure out the right SV timing and values for it. If both of them there would still be weird, I'd rather remove them

DDMythical wrote:

02:29:094 (149094|2,149308|2) - no triplet here when the sound for it was here 02:25:773
Fixed

DDMythical wrote:

the rest of this map is you just moving things off sync onto random snaps and calling it a dump and "your style" like why, This isn't how dumps work. Dumps deviate from the musical choice to make songs that would otherwise be mapped easily to a harder difficulty. Where this map falls is that

1.) It's not hard
2.) It's not consistent
3.) It's just gracenoted split jumptrills for 3 minutes, Which isn't interesting or fun to play atall.
The aim is to have a challenging dump/stream patterns in those areas. That is the best I came up with given my knowledge and I admit I need help with this.

DDMythical wrote:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Wyi ... 1kYyA/edit <<< read a guide on how to dump.
Thanks! I'll keep this in mind. I'll keep the dump/stream patterns more consistent and not be afraid to repeat them when appropriate.

DDMythical wrote:

as for hitsounds; All ranked maps have to be hitsounded. This is just how it is. This map isn't going to change the RC just because you're too lazy to figure out how to hitsound it. Yeah sure most players have hitsounds off but then again players at that tier aren't even playing ranked most of the time simply because of the lack of hard maps.
Bear with me since this is the first time I need to deal with this sort of thing. I have to hitsound such that the beats are distinguishable from the rest of the stuff, for example, or just have something audible there?
posted
pls resurrect and update :)


Metadata

Source : Selected EP
Tag : techno trance electronic dance

make 1/4 not 1/16

and

make audio 192
posted
Eternal Raver diff ready for further modding. Substituted jack/rushes for the 1/16 and 1/8 unconventional streams prior, removed the SV (for now?), and made the ending hold notes, just 2 hold notes for fade out.

If anyone can tell me if it's worth have SV's paired with some patter at the following sections, that would be much appreciated:

01:41:637 - I put hold notes here, but I don't think they do justice for the white noise that happens. imo, a different pattern with a sudden stop would be idea, but I am not sure how to make it without tripping players over.

03:21:050 - Another section where there might be a sudden stop SV, but I am less sure whether it has a place there. The pattern I came up with there does seem to work better than an SV would. There is also the matter of the first part has an SV and the second one does not, it may stick out like a soar thumb as per DDMythical's comment, "01:41:637 (101637|1) - haha random sv lol".

@FAMoss:
  • make 1/4 not 1/16: ????

    More than 1/3 of the map is kai time: I don't see much wrong with that. I can just remove kai time altogether if it bothers anyone. I just use it to highlight prominent sections of the song

    Audio bitrate: I'll do this sometime later. If anyone has tips on how to do this without the program changing offset, please tell.

    Mapset needs at least 1 Easy/Normal diff: See the star rating? Take it, strangle it, shoot it, pour gasoline over it, light it on fire, watch it burn, put remains in a sealed box, throw it to the waters, and launch a nuke down to it. If you follow SR like the bible, rip your beliefs in SR to shreds right here and now because you are delusional. SR is anything but what it is. It's a jack density calculator, not some thing that tells how hard the map actually is.
posted
This modding thread has been migrated to the new "modding discussions" system. Please make sure to re-post any existing (and unresolved) efforts to the new system as required.
Please sign in to reply.