xi - Garyou Tensei [OsuMania]

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Remillion Cross
Sorry to say, but i must postponed my update until weekend

i hate this, but my work time already pwned me

however, thanks to QAT and others~
Tifyron
Mods from us regular folk are only opinions at the end of the day, opinions do not always coincide with each other. I still want to add to some points though.

I pointed out some LN stuff in the previous one where sometimes notes are LN and sometimes they aren't. Those are just subjective and as you pointed out that you like mapping them that way, i won't point to them further.

The main issue i have is when you lengthen the LN like 00:26:671:

The instrument changes pitch into the 3 note stair, so the LN should stop when that happens. The part highlighted in red is basically a ghost note since it does not correspond to a sound. This part is repeated a few times in the song. I'm all for variations in patterns and stuff, but you can't just map things to nothing.

Another example of this is at 00:27:871 (27871|4,28171|2) and 01:06:271 (66271|5,66571|1) - Left and right image respectively.

These areas sound identical. The red area in the left image shows whats mapped to nothing. The right image is where it is properly mapped later on in the song. 01:54:571 (114571|6,114871|3) is another part like the first.

To stay on the subject of ghost notes 01:30:608 (90608|5,90683|1,90758|3,90833|5).

ExUsagi wrote:

// ==a but its snapped properly.. keep
There is no sound for these 4 notes, so i don't think this is relevant. They're still ghost notes that should not be there.

ExUsagi wrote:

// 01:52:171 (112171|2,112471|2,112621|1,112771|0) - these notes represent kicks, while this 01:52:321 (112321|6,112396|4,112471|5,112546|3,112621|4,112696|2,112771|3) - represent synth..
note: you might need to check more closely before judging / making mod...
You should still remove 01:52:621 (112621|1), there is really no kick there. The other things i pointed out previously was my mistake after an edit, i meant to point out the synth pattern and shouldn't have been in red as it was minor.
Remillion Cross
Tifyron, you better point out further and all of what you will point before i checked them and go re-rank.

Don't worry, i won't reject it (already checked before, and it seems reasonable)
Arzenvald

Tifyron wrote:

Mods from us regular folk are only opinions at the end of the day, opinions do not always coincide with each other. I still want to add to some points though.

I pointed out some LN stuff in the previous one where sometimes notes are LN and sometimes they aren't. Those are just subjective and as you pointed out that you like mapping them that way, i won't point to them further.

The main issue i have is when you lengthen the LN like 00:26:671:

The instrument changes pitch into the 3 note stair, so the LN should stop when that happens. The part highlighted in red is basically a ghost note since it does not correspond to a sound. This part is repeated a few times in the song. I'm all for variations in patterns and stuff, but you can't just map things to nothing.

// yes, you right... the reason i extend the ln, because the right finger release on 00:26:821 would add small spike there.. plus i really avoid mapping too technically.. please note this..
however, for me personally, its really nice to know that there's someone criticize LN usage like this.. because some mappers out there even do something worst, like http://puu.sh/i1Ren.png and some of them ranked now.. ahah

Another example of this is at 00:27:871 (27871|4,28171|2) and 01:06:271 (66271|5,66571|1) - Left and right image respectively.

These areas sound identical. The red area in the left image shows whats mapped to nothing. The right image is where it is properly mapped later on in the song. 01:54:571 (114571|6,114871|3) is another part like the first.

// fixed

To stay on the subject of ghost notes 01:30:608 (90608|5,90683|1,90758|3,90833|5).

ExUsagi wrote:

// ==a but its snapped properly.. keep
There is no sound for these 4 notes, so i don't think this is relevant. They're still ghost notes that should not be there.
// you could check with 25% playback rate, there's 8 kick sound per every 1/8 beat.. but.. i removed this earlier to make better diff curve (As a whole mapset), since MX & SC diff doesn't use 1/8 stream

ExUsagi wrote:

// 01:52:171 (112171|2,112471|2,112621|1,112771|0) - these notes represent kicks, while this 01:52:321 (112321|6,112396|4,112471|5,112546|3,112621|4,112696|2,112771|3) - represent synth..
note: you might need to check more closely before judging / making mod...
You should still remove 01:52:621 (112621|1), there is really no kick there. The other things i pointed out previously was my mistake after an edit, i meant to point out the synth pattern and shouldn't have been in red as it was minor.
// no change, because i also hear hi-hat, so its supports that notes.. asdf its not kick indeed.. x__x my bad..
heheh, truly, thank you so much for your mod, at least i know there's more people who mod with full technical modding..
however i know forcing mapping too technically would create a stiff & awkward pattern to play, that's why i "break" some technical aspect abit in some part, as long as the usage is fair enough..

http://puu.sh/i1RZy.osu
Tifyron
There's a few maps out there that really abuse this to ludicrous levels, such a shame that once they get ranked you can't do anything about them. Specifically ones like Sister's Noise lv 42 and Don't Cut 7k extra, and even Intersect Thunderbolt 7k Exceed to some extent.

I think it would be a bit less of an issue if the star rating properly rated this pattern style (and so many others *cough*), but personally i wouldn't mind if it was used less since i think the penalty for missing LN releases is harsher in osu mania compared to something like o2jam. I could be wrong though, as i have not played that in years.
Arzenvald
as mappers, actually i want to make same ridiculous LN pattern like those maps.. :v
ahahhahahah.. but yeah, i really hope the star rating properly rated too.. orz
Remillion Cross

Tifyron wrote:

There's a few maps out there that really abuse this to ludicrous levels, such a shame that once they get ranked you can't do anything about them. Specifically ones like Sister's Noise lv 42 and Don't Cut 7k extra, and even Intersect Thunderbolt 7k Exceed to some extent.

I think it would be a bit less of an issue if the star rating properly rated this pattern style (and so many others *cough*), but personally i wouldn't mind if it was used less since i think the penalty for missing LN releases is harsher in osu mania compared to something like o2jam. I could be wrong though, as i have not played that in years.
i don't find anything issue in Don't cut, i think it's well enough if in the case you are talking about LN abuse.Thunderbolt.. is just the jacks for me, nothing else. But sister could be a problem (because simple song) but well since no rules that can make against this so this isn't really a problem
Topic Starter
LNP-
des
Topic Starter
LNP-
All Updated ( Except 7K MX & SC )
Remillion Cross
well.. damn. my low poor internet makes my full replies gone.

@Tifyron if you wanna quick reply, i just said.. i mostly accept your replies, but that doesn't mean i follow them all.. i might changed the pattern if i had the new idea.

can't use puush for now, instead, i gave the diff file to LNP- via other ways.

later i will working on MX one (Redon's mods and also ExPew's questions), god.. time's too fast for ticking.

i can't believe your mods totally (actually i'm okay if it's just little) messed my whole pattern.. but it's okay, it's technically better than before. sometimes styles is NOT absolute and should have changed. still, you are best modder who mods my stuff better than everyone i ever got.
Tifyron
The big elephant in the room remains the broken star rating for LN heavy maps etc. I think if it ramped up the star rating properly for difficult LN patterns we would see diffs like this get an increase in star rating, adding the need for another transition diff in between.

In terms of my suggestions, its always up to the mapper to decide whether to ignore/apply changes to the map. Since there are no clear rules about LN layering i've been hesitant to bring them up too much lately, there's always people that like or dislike a particular pattern. You can't please everyone with a single map. :p
Remillion Cross

Tifyron wrote:

The big elephant in the room remains the broken star rating for LN heavy maps etc. I think if it ramped up the star rating properly for difficult LN patterns we would see diffs like this get an increase in star rating, adding the need for another transition diff in between.

In terms of my suggestions, its always up to the mapper to decide whether to ignore/apply changes to the map. Since there are no clear rules about LN layering i've been hesitant to bring them up too much lately, there's always people that like or dislike a particular pattern. You can't please everyone with a single map. :p
Just to make you clear, i don't make these LNs for "inflate difficulty" or "raise star rating" or something like that (it would be good for me if LN maps only get low stars). Did you know 2 years ago i make the map which is simple and plain without LN layering like this, and everyone say that is so boring and yet it's not even creative (and i deleted it because it's too old). So.. after conclusion, i choose this so-called-LN-extended-style to make people not being boring when they keep playing, and they like it. I know this doesn't mean my style is perfect, yet it's full of flawless pattern. That's why i keep learn and improve, but it needs a time to be a 'different' mapper.

This doesn't mean i don't like you mod, instead, i love your mods and somehow it changes/fixes my mistake (i also accept it very mostly). Some people like you criticize my map and i also take them as a lesson, it's greatly improves my map skill. I might take your suggestion and your mods in my future map :)

And about people who like or dislike a particular pattern, yes i know about it, that's why in my latest map (Valhalla) i make two different styles diff, which will be no problem for those who don't like this and those who don't like that (it's like they can choose what diff they like). The result is.. until now i don't find anyone who complain with that stuff (luckily).

After your mods, now i must re-arrange the pattern, and just to make it better than before. Many thanks for help :D
Remillion Cross

Redon wrote:

Here are some ideas from me about things that I think could be improved, I hope they are helpful.

! - Important issue that I think is or should be unrankable
+ - Opinion/suggestion of how I would do something differently, this is up to you

[Million's 7K MX]

I think this diff has a lot of the same or similar problems to what Tifyron pointed out for 7K SC. Pay attention to consistent LN mapping that follows the music and pitch relevance. It can add a lot the the map and convey a feeling of playing the music.

I will give a few examples or things that I thought were most important. This is not really a full mod, but I think it's better than nothing, maybe I will look at more later.

01:14:221 (74221|1,74221|0) - Why are there two notes here? if you're mapping to the pitch of the flute, you should remove 01:14:221 (74221|1) i don't get it
01:23:821 (83821|1) - ^
01:14:071 (74071|3) - Here you can add a note for the bass drum, for example in column 7
01:23:671 (83671|3) - ^
01:20:071 (80071|6) - add a note for bass drum i just wanna put one note only for smooth part like this. In a regular part, ofc i make 2 for bassdrum.

! 01:20:821 (80821|3,80871|4,80921|5) - This is mapped to nothing, there is no 1/6 in the music.
I also don't think the LNs are a good idea, they're annoying to play in a fast pattern at a lower SV. The whole 01:20:671 - 01:21:271 part might better be mapped as single 1/4 notes, you did the same at 01:14:071 (74071|3,74146|2,74221|1) i don't know what to do. Now, i followed your mods.

! 01:30:608 (90608|2,90646|4,90683|6,90721|0,90758|2,90796|4,90833|6) - overmap/ghost notes, there is no 1/8 here. did you know, there are plenty modders who say " this is 1/8 " and yet, plenty modders also say " this is not 1/8". really, it's make me confused. Now, i followed you because i don't wanna make this as a problem anymore :p

The LN mapping is inconsistent, from 01:30:871 - 01:32:071 there are LNs, from 01:32:071 - 01:33:271 there are none even though it sounds the same, then there's LNs again and then there's 1/2 LNs from 01:34:471 - 01:35:671 that fit neither the 1/1 flute nor the 1/4 notes. 01:35:671 - 01:38:071 now you're mapping to the flute in the background? technically, you're absolute right. But that's not what i map, and i may make it like this, but then everyone gonna complain because boring and repetitive pattern. Thus, the stairs note already represent the 1/4 sound (take a look at the first time you mentioned. the small note was set 1/2, because the LN is 1/4. Now, this is 1/2 or 1/1 LN, and the small note is 1/4 stream. It's like algebra.

01:39:421 (99421|0,99571|2,99721|4) - What are these LNs mapped to? for no reason, deleted.
01:39:946 (99946|3,99946|1) - Why is there suddenly a 2 note chord on a 1/4 tick when there wasn't before? There is no louder sound here.

+ 00:14:071 (14071|3) - move to lane 5, same pitch as 00:14:221 (14221|4)
+ 00:14:521 (14521|6,14671|6) - Remove one note from each chord, this is a single instrument, there is nothing more here. just because there's single instrument, doesn't mean you can only put one thing only for one things. Like a big sound, it even had 3-5 notes.

+ They are different pitches, why not map them to different lanes? 00:14:521 lane 4, 00:14:671 lane 5 for same pitch as 00:14:821 (14821|2)
+ 00:15:121 (15121|0) - ^ Remove, it's just one note
+ 00:15:271 (15271|3) - move to lane 5, there's no reason to have a repeat on the same key here
+ 00:19:321 (19321|1,19321|3,19471|3,19471|1) - ^
+ 00:19:921 (19921|0,19921|3) - ^

ExPew wrote:

Hi, LNP-. I am going to disqualify due to following this reason below :

Reason for Disqualification


  1. Inccorect snap
  2. Hold spike on Usagi's HD


[General]
Title is wrong, it should be 画竜点睛 and romanized title Garyou Tensei

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

[Million's 7K MX]

01:48:721 (108721|6) - Can I know why this hold is present on such specific instrument? my bad, sorry my human error was too damn high xD
01:20:971 (80971|0,81046|3,81121|2,81196|1) - I'm not sure if this is correctly snapped well with the flute sound. I have tried on 1/6 snap instead of 1/4 snap and it sync well. Check this out

[Million's 7K SC]

01:20:971 (80971|0,81046|3,81121|2,81196|1) - Same issue as 7K MX (refer above)

Cool enough. If you needs some fix or suggestion by the other modders, now is your chance. I noticed that some modder pointing out good stuffs in terms of quality.

The Beatmap Nominators will handle that from now on. Sorry for the inconveniences.

###BM
Ah.. thanks for mods you guys are great. Sorry for keep waiting. File will give to LNP- via something (still forget to download puush when in office orz)

Redon, thanks for your mods. I might take these for my future maps. You give me details and i feeling lucky (?)
Topic Starter
LNP-
ALL UPDATED









now what ?
Rush_FTK
I'm sorry to hear that the map is unranked.I loved the style you make mapset, and I believe the mapset ALREADY have the quality to become a ranked map for a long time.

So I decided that not just wait, I hope my mod can help your map ranked eariler even my modding ability is poor.QAQ


[puxtu's 4K EZ]
00:14:071 (14071|0) - What's the sound you picked there? if you pick harp sounds there,
why not also picked at 00:18:871? I suggested that try to make them same to make the picking balance and easy to catch.

00:42:571 ~ 00:48:867 - This part is too hard for just beginner player.I believe that it's a challenge for a player who play music game not for a long time to catch two different sounds at the same time. try to give up a picked-sound to make the mapset easier.if you think the difficult is resonable, at least delete 00:47:521 (47521|1) since it's too difficult to do three things(release 4 column's key,click 2 column's key,and focus 2 column's key) just in 1/4 snap, in easy mode.

01:15:721 - As you decided to pick flute sound there, you should pick all the not in this part so that it's not make the player in a mess. or you should try to use another way to arrange your note to pick the sound.

[4K NM]
00:16:171 (16171|0,16321|2,16471|1) - rearrangement a little to make there click more comfortable.

So since the sound in 00:16:171 and 00:16:471 is totally same both volume and pitch,i think there should be considerate equally. and put 00:16:321 (16321|2) in column 1 can present the sound pitch's higher, becasue it make up a stair with 00:15:871 (15871|2,16021|1).

00:43:471 - Since you pick durm sound's on 00:43:171 (43171|1,43771|1), I think you should also pick durm sounds there.

00:45:871 , 00:48:271 - Same as above.

01:15:271 ~ 01:16:471 - You can use stair here like you did in HD difficult, to make the flute sounds picked balance.


01:21:271 - I think there can add a note in column 1 in order to make a stress about the background sound. also, a new part begin.

01:29:671 (89671|0,89971|3,90271|2,90571|1) - this part is more eaiser than EZ difficult :P. you can try to use a harder arrangement.

01:49:396 - add notes in column 2,3 since you have follow Gong's sound like 01:49:171 and 01:49:621.

[4K HD]
00:18:871 - add a note that make equally stress with 00:18:271 (18271|1,18271|2,18571|0,18571|1).

00:23:821 (23821|2) - move to column 4. Since the cymbals's sound is not same as harp's sound, maybe not to make them to a group (stair) is a better choice, because it's more eaiser to let player understand the mapset, and know this time should catch two different sound. consider to let the player more comfortable to hit, you can keep it as it used to be.

00:38:446 - add a note to keep the equally picked sound.

4K MX is too hard that i can't controll correctly ;w;


hope this beatmap reranked as earlier as possible :) ^_^.
puxtu
Oh hey look someone modded my diff lmao

Rush_FTK wrote:

[puxtu's 4K EZ]
00:14:071 (14071|0) - What's the sound you picked there? if you pick harp sounds there,
why not also picked at 00:18:871? I suggested that try to make them same to make the picking balance and easy to catch. I think the cymbal sound here is much longer and stronger than here 00:18:871 so I make a ln to cover it

00:42:571 ~ 00:48:867 - This part is too hard for just beginner player.I believe that it's a challenge for a player who play music game not for a long time to catch two different sounds at the same time. try to give up a picked-sound to make the mapset easier.if you think the difficult is resonable, at least delete 00:47:521 (47521|1) since it's too difficult to do three things(release 4 column's key,click 2 column's key,and focus 2 column's key) just in 1/4 snap, in easy mode. welp the 1/1 notes swith a LN is not really that hard, even it's really fun I think

01:15:721 - As you decided to pick flute sound there, you should pick all the not in this part so that it's not make the player in a mess. or you should try to use another way to arrange your note to pick the sound. re-arrange? nah it's fine like what it is
Rido
Go reply his mod you son of shit
puxtu
don't tell me what to do u srub
Rido
Ok ty ily
Rush_FTK

puxtu wrote:

Oh hey look someone modded my diff lmao

Rush_FTK wrote:

[puxtu's 4K EZ]
00:14:071 (14071|0) - What's the sound you picked there? if you pick harp sounds there,
why not also picked at 00:18:871? I suggested that try to make them same to make the picking balance and easy to catch. I think the cymbal sound here is much longer and stronger than here 00:18:871 so I make a ln to cover it

Umm...It's really same stronge...Maybe my ear is not sensitive with stress

00:42:571 ~ 00:48:867 - This part is too hard for just beginner player.I believe that it's a challenge for a player who play music game not for a long time to catch two different sounds at the same time. try to give up a picked-sound to make the mapset easier.if you think the difficult is resonable, at least delete 00:47:521 (47521|1) since it's too difficult to do three things(release 4 column's key,click 2 column's key,and focus 2 column's key) just in 1/4 snap, in easy mode. welp the 1/1 notes swith a LN is not really that hard, even it's really fun I think

Prehapes it's really make mapset more fun...but it's really to hard since player should think much of different things to solve this part...I still think there should be change to eaiser.

01:15:721 - As you decided to pick flute sound there, you should pick all the not in this part so that it's not make the player in a mess. or you should try to use another way to arrange your note to pick the sound. re-arrange? nah it's fine like what it is

at least pick this note please...It's no reason not to pick this note since you have picked other notes in this part.
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