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Should I be trying to read AR9.8 yet?

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GoldenWolf
You should be trying to learn high AR once you will understand maps can be hard to read or not because of the way they're made, not because of the AR

If I put one circle per second I can read that on any single AR, but if I take a random 6 stars map I probably can only read it fine on AR9/9.5, anything lower and it becomes so clustered it's unreadable for me


Point being it's a bit silly to think you can read (perfectly) a given AR when it only depends on the map itself
Topic Starter
XgenSlayer
Thanks for the info, you two! :P

GoldenWolf wrote:

You should be trying to learn high AR once you will understand maps can be hard to read or not because of the way they're made, not because of the AR

If I put one circle per second I can read that on any single AR, but if I take a random 6 stars map I probably can only read it fine on AR9/9.5, anything lower and it becomes so clustered it's unreadable for me


Point being it's a bit silly to think you can read (perfectly) a given AR when it only depends on the map itself
Hmm, I suppose that you have a point. For now, the maps that I'm actually able to pass are readable on all the ARs that I've listed, but I guess some maps will become difficulty to read in the future.

Edited my post to make sure of that. :P
Loves

XgenSlayer wrote:

Thanks for the info, you two! :P

GoldenWolf wrote:

You should be trying to learn high AR once you will understand maps can be hard to read or not because of the way they're made, not because of the AR

If I put one circle per second I can read that on any single AR, but if I take a random 6 stars map I probably can only read it fine on AR9/9.5, anything lower and it becomes so clustered it's unreadable for me


Point being it's a bit silly to think you can read (perfectly) a given AR when it only depends on the map itself
Hmm, I suppose that you have a point. For now, the maps that I'm actually able to pass are readable on all the ARs that I've listed, but I guess some maps will become difficulty to read in the future.

Edited my post to make sure of that. :P

Make sure you perfect AR 8-9 before 10 or you will lose reading ability faster than light. Its what happened to me, spamming HR on every single map in ppv1 to get ranks and now i can't even read AR 9 on certain maps.
Topic Starter
XgenSlayer

Loves wrote:

Make sure you perfect AR 8-9 before 10 or you will lose reading ability faster than light. Its what happened to me, spamming HR on every single map in ppv1 to get ranks and now i can't even read AR 9 on certain maps.
Yeah, I'm being extra-cautious about that. I've mastered AR8 completely for maps that are around my skill level. I'm still working on completely mastering AR9, so I'll keep that up. Thanks for the heads-up! :D
Vuelo Eluko
don't worry about AR
also 20k is still too early for 10
B1rd
20k is the standard these days apparently.
cheezstik
Yeah I got my first ar9.8 fc around 25k, I didn't force myself to learn it, it just came naturally. I play ar10 a lot less consistently though, it seems like a massive difference to ar9.8 to me. Anyway, it doesnt really come in that handy to be able to read ar10 even at my level now, since I can't pass ranked maps that are actually meant to be ar10. The only true ar10 maps that I can remotely do are rog unlimitation and airman.

So tl;dr, no, you don't need to learn to read ar9.8 yet, even for a long time from now. However, if you find it fun to play and feel like you're not just mindlessly spamming circles as soon as you see them, then go for it.
Vuelo Eluko
why even so much emphasis on 9.8 its just ar7+hr
9.6 is more beneficial
B1rd
9.8 is what people use to compensate for their lack of AR7 reading skills.
GoldenWolf

B1rd wrote:

9.8 is what people use to compensate for their lack of AR7 reading skills.
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/7158
right
cheezstik

Riince wrote:

why even so much emphasis on 9.8 its just ar7+hr
9.6 is more beneficial
At his rank, the only benefits will be just the ability to read it anyway, cos I doubt he will be doing much dt fc's. The same ar7 song will be easier to play with hr than with dt most of the time.
B1rd

GoldenWolf wrote:

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/7158
right


respect.
ivan
x
nrl
No, you should not. I didn't make the jump to 9+ until rank 7k or so if memory serves.
Loves

NarrillNezzurh wrote:

No, you should not. I didn't make the ump to 9+ until rank 7k or so if memory serves.
You have to remember that your own experiences don't coincide with the rest of us.

I started effortlessly sight reading AR10 at like 14k
nrl
"Effortlessly sight reading," yet there isn't a single HR play in your top ranks (the HRDT hard doesn't count). I'm well aware that my experiences are not the same as most other players, which is why I gave a rank rather than a playcount; I didn't have any need to play past ar9 until around 7k when it became immensely helpful for continuing to rank up.
Noobsicle
i still can't read ar10 woo
Loves

NarrillNezzurh wrote:

"Effortlessly sight reading," yet there isn't a single HR play in your top ranks (the HRDT hard doesn't count). I'm well aware that my experiences are not the same as most other players, which is why I gave a rank rather than a playcount; I didn't have any need to play past ar9 until around 7k when it became immensely helpful for continuing to rank up.
Why doesnt DT count? Are we talking about aim or AR, I'm quite confused.
Noobsicle
ar8+dt isn't ar10
GoldenWolf
I still can't read ar10 either woo
Loves

Noobsicle wrote:

ar8+dt isn't ar10
True... still 9.6 which I can sightread without a problem. AR 10 feels just a tiny bit quicker but I can still sight read it unless the map itself is hard.
Noobsicle

Loves wrote:

Noobsicle wrote:

ar8+dt isn't ar10
True... still 9.6 which I can sightread without a problem. AR 10 feels just a tiny bit quicker but I can still sight read it unless the map itself is hard.
huh.. what would your definition of sight reading be? i thought sight reading meant passing/fcing the map for the first time S:
i can do ar9.6 easily (well the maps themselves weren't really that difficult but yeah), ar10 just kills me

GoldenWolf wrote:

I still can't read ar10 either woo
yay!!
Loves

Noobsicle wrote:

huh.. what would your definition of sight reading be? i thought sight reading meant passing/fcing the map for the first time S:
i can do ar9.6 easily (well the maps themselves weren't really that difficult but yeah), ar10 just kills me
My definition is the same as yours.
Vuelo Eluko

Noobsicle wrote:

what would your definition of sight reading be? i thought sight reading meant passing/fcing the map for the first time S:
i can do ar9.6 easily (well the maps themselves weren't really that difficult but yeah), ar10 just kills me
My DT run on PonPonPon which was like 133 pp or something was a complete first try sightread with no retries, thats when i realized i could sightread 9.6
Loves

Riince wrote:

Noobsicle wrote:

what would your definition of sight reading be? i thought sight reading meant passing/fcing the map for the first time S:
i can do ar9.6 easily (well the maps themselves weren't really that difficult but yeah), ar10 just kills me
My DT run on PonPonPon which was like 133 pp or something was a complete first try sightread with no retries, thats when i realized i could sightread 9.6
ikr niqqas on this thread postin' like sightreading AR 10 be like tryna get on the Forbes list smh
Tari
Honestly, if you can HR AR 7 , you have potential to DT AR 7.
nrl

Loves wrote:

Why doesnt DT count? Are we talking about aim or AR, I'm quite confused.
We're talking about AR (aim? what?), and DT doesn't count because it isn't AR10. 9.6 is substantially slower than 10.

Loves wrote:

ikr niqqas on this thread postin' like sightreading AR 10 be like tryna get on the Forbes list smh
Sight reading complex maps on AR10 isn't rocket science, but it isn't something most players can do either.
Loves

NarrillNezzurh wrote:

Loves wrote:

Why doesnt DT count? Are we talking about aim or AR, I'm quite confused.
We're talking about AR (aim? what?), and DT doesn't count because it isn't AR10. 9.6 is substantially slower than 10.

Loves wrote:

ikr niqqas on this thread postin' like sightreading AR 10 be like tryna get on the Forbes list smh
Sight reading complex maps on AR10 isn't rocket science, but it isn't something most players can do either.
IMO 9.68AR and 10AR is pretty much the same. I'm pretty sure most better players will agree that AR10 on complex maps makes everything easier because of less circles on the screen and more time to react to a couple of circles instead of reacting to 4-5.

AR10.3 is a different story all together.
Vuelo Eluko

Loves wrote:

IMO 9.68AR and 10AR is pretty much the same.
not even close for me.
B1rd

Riince wrote:

Loves wrote:

IMO 9.68AR and 10AR is pretty much the same.
not even close for me.
it's like the difference between AR10 and AR10.33

i think the actual difficulty of the map has a lot to do with the difficulty of reading the AR. Most 20K players could probably FC some AR8 hards+HR with enough tries, bu they'd flounder on insanes.
Loves
The difference between AR10 and AR10.3 is actually quite a bit bigger than AR9.68- to AR10.
B1rd
I said 'like the difference'. But thanks for stating an obvious fact anyway.
ZenithPhantasm

Loves wrote:

The difference between AR10 and AR10.3 is actually quite a bit bigger than AR9.68- to AR10.
Its the same...

AR9.68: 500ms-> AR10: 450ms-> AR10.3: 400ms

50ms difference
I Give Up
It only feels different because of the way perception works, the brain struggles to make sense of sudden changes in visual stimuli, and so increasing the speed incrementally at high AR creates this "ohgahd that is not ar10.6 that is ar9000" sensation.

Should I be trying to read AR9.8 yet?
Well first, you can "see" AR9.8, anyone can see AR9.8, because the eyes are just that sensitive. Second, what you should be worrying about is developing muscle memory so you can respond to patterns and tap with good accuracy. I believe that is what reading is all about.
Loves

ZenithPhantasm wrote:

Loves wrote:

The difference between AR10 and AR10.3 is actually quite a bit bigger than AR9.68- to AR10.
Its the same...

AR9.68: 500ms-> AR10: 450ms-> AR10.3: 400ms

50ms difference
Literally yes, but the feel of 10.3 is much quicker than 10 thus why maybe only a couple of hundred of players can actually effecctively read ar10.33.

I also suspect the marginal gap between (ms) AR9.67 to 11 decreases at an exponential. Not sure though
nrl

Loves wrote:

IMO 9.68AR and 10AR is pretty much the same. I'm pretty sure most better players will agree that AR10 on complex maps makes everything easier because of less circles on the screen and more time to react to a couple of circles instead of reacting to 4-5.
As you've pointed out, AR10 is generally easier on exceptionally complex maps once you've gotten used to it, but the two are not the same or even fairly similar, especially for sight-reading, and most players simply cannot sight-read complex maps on AR10. And let's not forget that all the same arguments can be applied to 10/10.3; the change is more drastic due to the fact that 50ms is larger relative to 450ms than to 500ms, but a player who's got the reflexes and practice to read 10.3 will find it easier on more complex maps than 10.

Most of the difficulty associated with AR changes isn't actually due to the AR change. 9.6 to 10 usually comes with an increase in CS and a drastic change in map style, and 10 to 10.3 usually comes with a massive tempo boost, which is why it seems like such an insurmountable hurdle when it really isn't.
B1rd
I think it's probably better to look at high AR reading as a requirement rather than a skill in itself. So you should start with ar10 once insanes are too easy aim and accuracy wise, and learn AR10.33 once the majority of AR8+DT maps are too slow for you. If you're rank 20K there's not much benefit from being able to read AR10.
nrl
Agree.
Loves
Honestly how many players can you name read 10.3? There must be a reason to why 10 is the limit for the majority of better players
RaneFire

Loves wrote:

Literally yes, but the feel of 10.3 is much quicker than 10 thus why maybe only a couple of hundred of players can actually effecctively read ar10.33.
Subjective. I feel that the gap between 9.6 and 10 is quite huge. However the gap between 10 and 10.3 feels about the same (hugeness), so I can only play 10 on easier-to-read maps, and 10.3 on easier-to-read-and-slower maps, which means map complexity plays an important part, as Goldenwolf mentioned earlier.

The reason 10.3 feels so much harder is because of the maps which use AR9 already. Most of them become way too fast to read, let alone tap to, and can carry an OD just as high or higher than HR sometimes, while there are plenty of slower and easier AR8 insanes to slap HR onto.

B1rd wrote:

I think it's probably better to look at high AR reading as a requirement rather than a skill in itself. So you should start with ar10 once insanes are too easy aim and accuracy wise, and learn AR10.33 once the majority of AR8+DT maps are too slow for you. If you're rank 20K there's not much benefit from being able to read AR10.
You should start doing it when you're getting 99% on your typical insanes (excluding physical challenges such as maximising finger-speed, aim-speed or stamina). So IMO, your ability to read and be accurate is foremost important before you move onto playing AR10. If you don't "master" both of these, on ultimately easier settings, you'll quite likely lose your ability to play low AR, since - in speculation - you'll attach your accuracy to your reaction time, instead of reading patterns in advance to determine their timing.

Loves wrote:

Honestly how many players can you name read 10.3? There must be a reason to why 10 is the limit for the majority of better players
I don't even know why people think this is a statistical game based on map settings. To use myself as an example (since I'm slow), the slowest AR10.3 I've even come close to FC'ing is Vidro Moyou (DT). The rest are too fast for my fingers and for my reading. I can't say I can read 10.3, because there are practically no maps I can actually play with it. The majority of players are also slow too... FYI.
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