starting to feel like a badass for playing osu seriously now, like im some sort of old school EVE Online player. Oh god, that game was the epitome of noob unfriendly and hard to get into.lolcubes wrote:
The reason why this game is deemed so unfriendly today is because in pretty much all games you are being held by your hand, and walked through everything. As soon as people have to do something on their own, they get lost and immediately ask for guidance from another or just plain quit with bitter feelings.
The guidance from another can be seen in the above threads (hell, even regular topics have many duplicates, yet another one is being made all the time), or even in the FAQ section.
Today you even have mechanisms like map recommendations based on difficulty, etc.
Obviously it's the player's fault here. If someone needs to do everything for them, what's the point? Pointing them towards the right direction is pointing them towards the forums, the FAQ, or giving a tip on your own, but if they start complaining about how unfriendly this game is towards them (that even with that they get their ass kicked), they are better off quitting now, else they will do it later with more complaints.
forum
DAE Think that osu! is unfriendly towards new players?
posted
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the only thing hard to get into is a girl
huehuehue
huehuehue
thats what my black friend said once but i wasnt sure what he meant but he said i shouldn't worry about it because I won't have the same problem he has. I guess that's a good thing?winber1 wrote:
the only thing hard to get into is a girl
huehuehue
lolcubes wrote:
The reason why this game is deemed so unfriendly today is because in pretty much all games you are being held by your hand, and walked through everything. As soon as people have to do something on their own, they get lost and immediately ask for guidance from another or just plain quit with bitter feelings.
The guidance from another can be seen in the above threads (hell, even regular topics have many duplicates, yet another one is being made all the time), or even in the FAQ section.
Today you even have mechanisms like map recommendations based on difficulty, etc.
Obviously it's the player's fault here. If someone needs to do everything for them, what's the point? Pointing them towards the right direction is pointing them towards the forums, the FAQ, or giving a tip on your own, but if they start complaining about how unfriendly this game is towards them (that even with that they get their ass kicked), they are better off quitting now, else they will do it later with more complaints.
I think its also the case that nowdays mappers dont really care about mapping normals/easy and those diffs are just bad. generally maps are better quality sure, but on easier diffs they are just bad and dont teach you anything. For example in taiko you dont really learn anything before you start playing oni's and abefore you can do that you need to learn patterns that exist only on oni's/insanes.
Imo what we need is some official mappack that is geared towards newbies and introduce them to diffrent patterns and concepts, something like EBA single player mode, with each map slightly harder to smoothen learning curve. So when you complete it you are ready to go and explore for yourself. Tutorial that doesnt even cover all modes and few maps from monthly contest that are also std only simply arent enough.
And i'll agree with quote that Its part of players fault too, many players are simply lazy and quit at slightes sight of difficulty, but its designers work to give them reasons to stay. Thats why games like TF2 have those popups when you die, telling you what you acomplished, or achivements and other stuff.
Newbies must see progress, and if they dont see it they must be shown that they are progressing, dont tell them that they are bad, tell them that they did well cause they had 1% more acc than last run. Not all people are competitive and strive to get better ranks.
Welp. Sitting in class in university so why the hell not write a block of text about this? :s
Osu has a steep learning curve:
All of my yes. I'm 9k and still feel this is true after playing for just short of 9 months. That is just the nature of the game, along with most other rhythm games. However, there is plenty of people that are perfectly happy to play lower difficulties than insane/extra because they arent going to invest the time in "Training" in order to play at that higher level. (I did and it was a rough road for the first 2 months I played osu... 5-7 hrs/day of playing maps i could almost pass but couldn't)
New players quit quickly
I find it hard to believe that there isn't still newer players though because I have a REALLY hard time finding multiplayer lobbies which aren't playing hard/normal diffs, though I can understand that based on numbers, there isn't that high of a of a retention rate of new players. I think part of this is due to the whole rankings issue (not being able to reach top ranks) but also part of the nature of rhythm games in general. Rhythm games are a very "quick fix" kind of game; you jam out to a few awesome songs and you are good for the rest of the day.
Also take into account that many gamers these days are spoiled with choices and, as such, we only hear the loud minority in games where the lesser percentage of the veterans are actually involving themselves within the community. With so many other games to play (usually with goals/achievements based on a timeframe, set either by the game itself or by the clans/guilds/etc players within those games belong to) many people don't actively dedicate their time to playing osu because it is used by people as a secondary timesink moreso than a main dedication. (IE lots of MOBA/MMO players waiting for queues)
Is Osu in general unfriendly towards new players
Sure it is, but not by the fault of Peppy or the community. There is plenty of resources on how to improve in osu. AT LEAST once a week there is a decent thread showing up on the topic with plenty of decent input, along with all the stickied topics talking about such things as well. Rhythm games in general are unfriendly to new players because the only limiting factor in how well somebody is doing is based on themselves mentally and physically! If your friend in an MMO is falling behind or having issues, you group up with them and run them thru a dungeon for some loot, give them some gold/items etc. make their character stronger. If an FPS player is falling behind, you can join a clan/team to practice with, play to level up and get access to better equipment and the like. In a MOBA, you can carry your friends to a win and assist their lane as the fall behind. But with a rhythm game, none of that exists and it is the player's responsibility to learn how to play better! No amount of equipment or guidance will ever help that player get into top ranks if they don't dedicate tons of time to practice and a little research and then practice and practice and practice and practice some more and more m***** *****n' practice.
Can we help Osu be more newbie friendly?
Maybe. A few extra tutorials for other game modes and how to get around the game to get the best experience they can would help, but I can't imagine it would turn 10k players online into 50k players online. As it stands, Osu has about the same amount of players online and active (on a weekly basis) as a medium (maybe even larger) server of an MMO (WoW, Aion, Tera), and for a rhythm game which has no real clan/team/guild system that is damn good.
TL;DR: rhythm games are, by nature of the game, unfriendly to new players. Osu is already pretty big considering it isn't a mainstream game nor game genre
Osu has a steep learning curve:
All of my yes. I'm 9k and still feel this is true after playing for just short of 9 months. That is just the nature of the game, along with most other rhythm games. However, there is plenty of people that are perfectly happy to play lower difficulties than insane/extra because they arent going to invest the time in "Training" in order to play at that higher level. (I did and it was a rough road for the first 2 months I played osu... 5-7 hrs/day of playing maps i could almost pass but couldn't)
New players quit quickly
I find it hard to believe that there isn't still newer players though because I have a REALLY hard time finding multiplayer lobbies which aren't playing hard/normal diffs, though I can understand that based on numbers, there isn't that high of a of a retention rate of new players. I think part of this is due to the whole rankings issue (not being able to reach top ranks) but also part of the nature of rhythm games in general. Rhythm games are a very "quick fix" kind of game; you jam out to a few awesome songs and you are good for the rest of the day.
Also take into account that many gamers these days are spoiled with choices and, as such, we only hear the loud minority in games where the lesser percentage of the veterans are actually involving themselves within the community. With so many other games to play (usually with goals/achievements based on a timeframe, set either by the game itself or by the clans/guilds/etc players within those games belong to) many people don't actively dedicate their time to playing osu because it is used by people as a secondary timesink moreso than a main dedication. (IE lots of MOBA/MMO players waiting for queues)
Is Osu in general unfriendly towards new players
Sure it is, but not by the fault of Peppy or the community. There is plenty of resources on how to improve in osu. AT LEAST once a week there is a decent thread showing up on the topic with plenty of decent input, along with all the stickied topics talking about such things as well. Rhythm games in general are unfriendly to new players because the only limiting factor in how well somebody is doing is based on themselves mentally and physically! If your friend in an MMO is falling behind or having issues, you group up with them and run them thru a dungeon for some loot, give them some gold/items etc. make their character stronger. If an FPS player is falling behind, you can join a clan/team to practice with, play to level up and get access to better equipment and the like. In a MOBA, you can carry your friends to a win and assist their lane as the fall behind. But with a rhythm game, none of that exists and it is the player's responsibility to learn how to play better! No amount of equipment or guidance will ever help that player get into top ranks if they don't dedicate tons of time to practice and a little research and then practice and practice and practice and practice some more and more m***** *****n' practice.
Can we help Osu be more newbie friendly?
Maybe. A few extra tutorials for other game modes and how to get around the game to get the best experience they can would help, but I can't imagine it would turn 10k players online into 50k players online. As it stands, Osu has about the same amount of players online and active (on a weekly basis) as a medium (maybe even larger) server of an MMO (WoW, Aion, Tera), and for a rhythm game which has no real clan/team/guild system that is damn good.
TL;DR: rhythm games are, by nature of the game, unfriendly to new players. Osu is already pretty big considering it isn't a mainstream game nor game genre
You're not wrong, but you're glossing over the fact that this is the result of the industry changing, not the players.lolcubes wrote:
The reason why this game is deemed so unfriendly today is because in pretty much all games you are being held by your hand, and walked through everything. As soon as people have to do something on their own, they get lost and immediately ask for guidance from another or just plain quit with bitter feelings.
Agreed. I started 5 months ago but quit on my first hour. I'm glad I came back to it a few weeks later. The reason I came back is the community. Not many communities are as friendly as this one. I got plenty of guidence on multiplayer. New players should be made more aware of the community and the guidence the friendly players can give.
Cuz it only takes 1 person to say "play more" :^)Loves wrote:
Just look at the stats, 4 800 000 users, only 6- 12k online at any time. I'll also note that I rarely see anyone above 30k rank post on the forums actively.
Although i agree that osu! is unfriendly towards new players i think that´s actually what pushes most of the competitive people to play and keep improving. This is one of the main reasons why y believe osu! to be competitive, there are games which apply to the casual community and people who play once in a while and these games have many options to "help" him out against others who know more. Those games are not competitive to me, i don´t know why i believe its because i actually have to search for things myself because i care. When i first started playing, back to like 9 or 10 months ago i can say that yes, i didn´t understand shit about: Ar, switches, tablet, OD or whatever, but i did know that i had to click circles tapping fast and with accuraccy... and that is enough to get good if you really want to.
If what you are trying to achieve with this idea is to expand the community in a casual way then fine, i personally prefer it the way it is now, small and with many competitive players trying to top their ranks. Also don´t forget every beatmap you play is copyrighted in some way or another, so its not like we can go and advertise the game everywhere because then you know what would happen...
On a side note. Don´t get me wrong i do want the game to grow, but i don´t think that´s the best way although some improvements on those areas can still be made, but should not be the main focus.
If what you are trying to achieve with this idea is to expand the community in a casual way then fine, i personally prefer it the way it is now, small and with many competitive players trying to top their ranks. Also don´t forget every beatmap you play is copyrighted in some way or another, so its not like we can go and advertise the game everywhere because then you know what would happen...
On a side note. Don´t get me wrong i do want the game to grow, but i don´t think that´s the best way although some improvements on those areas can still be made, but should not be the main focus.
Osu isn't hurting for new players, everyone i've introduced to osu either instantly hates it or plays for a year +. That is decided pretty fast during day 1. 99% of people aren't going to look at a forum for a game they decide sucks within an hour, they're going to uninstall it and move on w/life.
t/238694VioletMaid wrote:
99% of people aren't going to look at a forum for a game they decide sucks within an hour
I never really saw a problem getting into the game itself. Despite the fact that I played the tutorial and quit right after until 3 years later. But that was due to being too poor to buy headphones and I didn't want to blast animusic through the house and the huge pink flashy logo of the main screen glaring in a dark room could give off the wrong impressions on my family. Not to mention when clicking/tapping really fast and loud. But then I got a laptop and headphones and all became well.
That aside, there's plenty of tutorials and guides for new players. Not really sure how to make them easier to find unless blatantly advertised everywhere instead of 90% of G&R filled with things.
That aside, there's plenty of tutorials and guides for new players. Not really sure how to make them easier to find unless blatantly advertised everywhere instead of 90% of G&R filled with things.
When I first picked up the game I knew I was going to be hooked on it the moment I played the tutorial. After that I joined multiplayer rooms to meet people while learning the ropes of the game. I rarely touched the singleplayer mode for at least a month or two and just constantly played in multi and that was a lot of fun.
I don't think osu! is more unfriendly towards new players as much as newer games are too friendly towards them. Is the learning curve steep? Of course, since it's a difficult game to pick up even though the fundamentals are simple: you see a circle on the screen and move your cursor towards it and click it. Would more in-depth tutorials when you first launch the game be helpful? Definitely. But even as it is now I don't think there's a problem with how the game is structured towards first time players. Maybe games nowadays are just too user-friendly and players developed a dependence on the excessive hand-holding that other games provide which osu! doesn't.
When you're a new player you don't need to worry about guides, you don't need to worry about having the optimal setup, you don't need to worry about playing the right maps. You just download whatever song you like and play. If you enjoy the game after trying it for a bit then you keep playing; if you don't then the game isn't for you.
If I were to name a problem it would be that when new players search for a map to download there are times when they end up downloading a 2008 map and judge the game based on that map which doesn't at all reflect the current state of the game. It's unfortunate but it happens.
I don't think osu! is more unfriendly towards new players as much as newer games are too friendly towards them. Is the learning curve steep? Of course, since it's a difficult game to pick up even though the fundamentals are simple: you see a circle on the screen and move your cursor towards it and click it. Would more in-depth tutorials when you first launch the game be helpful? Definitely. But even as it is now I don't think there's a problem with how the game is structured towards first time players. Maybe games nowadays are just too user-friendly and players developed a dependence on the excessive hand-holding that other games provide which osu! doesn't.
When you're a new player you don't need to worry about guides, you don't need to worry about having the optimal setup, you don't need to worry about playing the right maps. You just download whatever song you like and play. If you enjoy the game after trying it for a bit then you keep playing; if you don't then the game isn't for you.
If I were to name a problem it would be that when new players search for a map to download there are times when they end up downloading a 2008 map and judge the game based on that map which doesn't at all reflect the current state of the game. It's unfortunate but it happens.
my first map ever played was a 2007 mapPettanko wrote:
If I were to name a problem it would be that when new players search for a map to download there are times when they end up downloading a 2008 map and judge the game based on that map which doesn't at all reflect the current state of the game. It's unfortunate but it happens.
it was fun.
better than drugs, and i've done plenty
#420badass
And that's your right, but refusing to make osu! as friendly towards players as other games shouldn't be taken as anything other than stubbornness on the part of our developers. Making the non-gameplay operations of a game more intuitive and user friendly is universally beneficial to both the players and the overall health of the game.Pettanko wrote:
I don't think osu! is more unfriendly towards new players as much as newer games are too friendly towards them.
People should really take a little care in throwing around the term "learning curve." osu! doesn't have a learning curve; there's very little to learn about its gameplay that can't be gleaned from a few minutes of reading on readily accessible wiki pages. What osu! has, which many posters are mistaking for a learning curve, is a high skill ceiling, and it's only a problem for new players because of how long the metagame has had to develop.Pettanko wrote:
Is the learning curve steep? Of course, since it's a difficult game to pick up
I think what would keep some new players that enjoy osu! for their first few hours would be a little community for beginners. This way they can actually make friends and compete with each other.
Multi is like 80% new players running easy/normal rooms.Xyyzzz wrote:
I think what would keep some new players that enjoy osu! for their first few hours would be a little community for beginners. This way they can actually make friends and compete with each other.
^^
The rooms are even pretty lively too. I rarely go a session without finding a talkative room (though I don't stick around if they aren't playing hard enough maps, which is always the case).
The rooms are even pretty lively too. I rarely go a session without finding a talkative room (though I don't stick around if they aren't playing hard enough maps, which is always the case).
Holorin
Riince, this is the first non shitposting post you have ever made. Damn, don't lose your way manRiince wrote:
https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/238694VioletMaid wrote:
99% of people aren't going to look at a forum for a game they decide sucks within an hour
On a positive side, that edit of the userpage is absolutely glorious. I praise you for that quality post xD
OT: Yeah, osu is not exactly friendly toward people who have none experiences in rhythm game. I was lucky to encounter TTR4, Deemo, Cytus before plunging my head into this little piece of shit game. I didn't have it that rough and so did my friend who only played Deemo before. But yeah, the noob channel definitely sounds nice
at the end of the day, if you want to succeed in something then you will continously try over and over, with or without guidance.. it doesnt take much to retry maps, at begginer level and thats the only way to learn. These people who quit don't want it enough... Heck I played 8000 playcount in my first month without much guidance and i felt fine with my progress. I think people over think this game a bit at the lower levels... YOU NEED TO PLAY THAT IS IT nothing else, you dont need some 'special training course' you learn as you go along, you learn triplets, alternating taps between sliders, spins and experiment. its all part of the growth progress. You can say oh but this that or the other.. if your playcount is below like 1k and your ALREADY COMPLAINING then just leave... or realise and ACCEPT that you dont try hard enough and that alone is the reason you dont improve as a new player..
This is going to sound cynical and blunt, but facts are facts.
However, this is not to say that there's no way to help the issue as for the only way of improvement being via raw skill/practice, its really a mindset issue, some people like challenges, some don't. Sad to say that if you like staying in your comfort zone, picking up a new genre isn't quite for you.
As for the skillset issue, we could prompt new players to try things like relax mode to focus on developing their cursor control, and that listening to the hitsounds on auto mode is helpful. Also, telling players early about the existence of AR would greatly help, as slow AR does NOT help a new player decide when to hit, in fact anything lower than ar 8 is just pointlessly slow, clutters the screen and just makes it harder to judge when hit the notes.
As the the psychological effect, we could by default place the scoreboard to show the players ahead/below them (+- 10 positions?) to give them a sense of progress (that flash when you pass someone on the scoreboard), and label the global rankings as global highscores, or "top players". Sounds more like something one would expect themselves not to be in when they first join, and thus less disappointing to be not part of.
Disheartening explanation of why new players quit/have a hard time
There's NOTHING you can "learn" or "study" in osu to make you better. Really. beyond the tutorials and "how to improve" threads, there really is nothing to learn, no amount of video/text walkthroughs, guides, how tos, or tips and tricks are going to make you substantially better, excluding hardware related issues (ex: turn of mouse acceleration). This is the nature of rhythm games, because its impossible to make it "more forgiving", in that a miss will be a miss no matter how easy the map is. While you can offer new players huge health bars to compensate for the time it takes for them to react to dangers in other games, you can't pause the music and wait for the player to react.
This absence of a solid guide to success and not knowing what goes into making a good player it made worse by the fact that osu is a particularly demanding game, requiring skills in 2 areas (cursor control+music). Since most people gravitate to one genre of games (fps/moba for cursor control / rhythm games for music) it would be even harder to pick up osu due to them lacking more or less 50% of the skill required to play the game, while expecting much better results based on the area they are good in (imagine a IIDX player's frustration of having to go from really hard songs to very slow songs simply because he's struggling to keep up the cursor, or an fps's gamer's inherent frustration with the "when to click?" issue).
Final issue is just the psychological stress of seeing all the SS on the scoreboard being contrasted with your low score, and the forgiveness in general. There's no "Made it anyway.", there's only "I screwed up, and here's a D grade to go with it!". Every mistake is recorded and put on the final screen, with no chance of correcting (other than starting over). There's just too much "whoops I just got shot in the face, I'll just walk behind a crate and sit there till my eyes stop bleeding, then continue as if nothing happened. " and checkpoints every 2 mins in games nowadays that people expect that second chances are handed to them on a platter every time they screw up. Did you just get a 100? wave bye to your SS, no "safe to fine" converters around here to save you.
This absence of a solid guide to success and not knowing what goes into making a good player it made worse by the fact that osu is a particularly demanding game, requiring skills in 2 areas (cursor control+music). Since most people gravitate to one genre of games (fps/moba for cursor control / rhythm games for music) it would be even harder to pick up osu due to them lacking more or less 50% of the skill required to play the game, while expecting much better results based on the area they are good in (imagine a IIDX player's frustration of having to go from really hard songs to very slow songs simply because he's struggling to keep up the cursor, or an fps's gamer's inherent frustration with the "when to click?" issue).
Final issue is just the psychological stress of seeing all the SS on the scoreboard being contrasted with your low score, and the forgiveness in general. There's no "Made it anyway.", there's only "I screwed up, and here's a D grade to go with it!". Every mistake is recorded and put on the final screen, with no chance of correcting (other than starting over). There's just too much "whoops I just got shot in the face, I'll just walk behind a crate and sit there till my eyes stop bleeding, then continue as if nothing happened. " and checkpoints every 2 mins in games nowadays that people expect that second chances are handed to them on a platter every time they screw up. Did you just get a 100? wave bye to your SS, no "safe to fine" converters around here to save you.
However, this is not to say that there's no way to help the issue as for the only way of improvement being via raw skill/practice, its really a mindset issue, some people like challenges, some don't. Sad to say that if you like staying in your comfort zone, picking up a new genre isn't quite for you.
As for the skillset issue, we could prompt new players to try things like relax mode to focus on developing their cursor control, and that listening to the hitsounds on auto mode is helpful. Also, telling players early about the existence of AR would greatly help, as slow AR does NOT help a new player decide when to hit, in fact anything lower than ar 8 is just pointlessly slow, clutters the screen and just makes it harder to judge when hit the notes.
As the the psychological effect, we could by default place the scoreboard to show the players ahead/below them (+- 10 positions?) to give them a sense of progress (that flash when you pass someone on the scoreboard), and label the global rankings as global highscores, or "top players". Sounds more like something one would expect themselves not to be in when they first join, and thus less disappointing to be not part of.
but making it harder to judge when to hit the notes is the definitive way it teaches them when to hitloldcraft wrote:
slow AR does NOT help a new player decide when to hit, in fact anything lower than ar 8 is just pointlessly slow, clutters the screen and just makes it harder to judge when hit the notes.
except is useless skill cause new maps dont do it anymore. How often you see a map that focuses on reading stacks, notes under sliders and such compared to sick jumps/streams/triples/etc. Its easier to train Using HD if you want to improve your rythm and accuracy cause no one maps low ar on hard/insanes. Unless you plan your rank on beating older maps scores then its usefull but how many new players choose old maps vs new ones. Its even stated in beatmappack page that is better to download new ones.Riince wrote:
but making it harder to judge when to hit the notes is the definitive way it teaches them when to hitloldcraft wrote:
slow AR does NOT help a new player decide when to hit, in fact anything lower than ar 8 is just pointlessly slow, clutters the screen and just makes it harder to judge when hit the notes.
We dont get to see maps like tsurupettan or such anymore. In fact i belive that if we got introduced mode that lowers ar instead of increasing [like easy only with more points instead of less] many players would flip out cause it would be impossible for them.
There was a point when people called anyone who played with easy mod "pro"
Its fun really i tried it wth 5 star maps and holy shit I got skins without numbers on circles and was like "shit 10 cirles on screen what do i click?"
10x harder than any hard rock map.
i think the benefits of being good or at least passably competent at lower ar do carry on to high ar maps because it definitely helps you understand patterns better than higher AR, and to an extent rhythm as well.
No. I think you're forgetting how AR8 looked when you first started playing (or have experience with other games that require good reflexes).loldcraft wrote:
slow AR does NOT help a new player decide when to hit, in fact anything lower than ar 8 is just pointlessly slow, clutters the screen and just makes it harder to judge when hit the notes.
In 2009-2010 most maps were around AR8, with AR9 being fastashell and AR10 being more or less impossible. Obviously people have improved since then, but essentially the AR8 then is similar to how AR9 is today. There's no reason to assume new players today have better reflexes than then.
Also, clutter happens only on harder maps. Newer players will likely start at around Easy/Normal, and high AR will make any patterns indistinguishable, making it just a reaction game where you click on whatever pops up, and you learn nada when it comes to reading. Basically, there are less notes in easier difficulties, so they need to stay onscreen longer for any patterns to really emerge.
There's also no reason to think players back then didn't have the necessary reflexes to pick up AR9 easily if they really wanted to. People picked up AR9 because they played it more as mappers started to favor it, not the other way around.CXu wrote:
There's no reason to assume new players today have better reflexes than then.
Some people simply don't like a challenge when it comes to games
It only appears unfriendly, or a steep learning curve because people expect to 420bpm at 300 play count. People think the average skill level lies somewhere at 5 star difficulty maps, when in reality it would be near 3 star. The same can be applied with every game with a ranking system (and even games without one...), people over estimate the average and tend to over estimate their own skill level too which slows down improvement.
If a game isn't for someone, then that's that. It doesn't necessarily mean anything is wrong with the game itself, but that the player just can't seem to find any enjoyment and that's fine. You can't satisfy everyone, and I'm sure most of the updates peppy spits out are newbie-friendly too.
It would be nice to have promotions for newbs though, but I don't think many options would help them stay unless it were to be game-play related, such as the point you mentioned to add ingame tutorials. New player ranking board probably won't work too, as there are so many maps that most maps won't even get 50 scores on them. Anything non-game related would probably only prolong their stay for a short time before an inevitable leave.
Also as far as I know, there are videos that are indepth about the game but don't receive much publicity. Guides are also written but they keep coming into G&R to post the same question over and over. These guides need to be more visually noticeable on the site, or even better in the client.
If a game isn't for someone, then that's that. It doesn't necessarily mean anything is wrong with the game itself, but that the player just can't seem to find any enjoyment and that's fine. You can't satisfy everyone, and I'm sure most of the updates peppy spits out are newbie-friendly too.
It would be nice to have promotions for newbs though, but I don't think many options would help them stay unless it were to be game-play related, such as the point you mentioned to add ingame tutorials. New player ranking board probably won't work too, as there are so many maps that most maps won't even get 50 scores on them. Anything non-game related would probably only prolong their stay for a short time before an inevitable leave.
Also as far as I know, there are videos that are indepth about the game but don't receive much publicity. Guides are also written but they keep coming into G&R to post the same question over and over. These guides need to be more visually noticeable on the site, or even better in the client.
i think around 6 stars is average tbhbuny wrote:
It only appears unfriendly, or a steep learning curve because people expect to 420bpm at 300 play count. People think the average skill level lies somewhere at 5 star difficulty maps, when in reality it would be near 3 star.
But isn't giving more than 0.9 seconds a little too much? Most games with fixed AR (like jubeat) don't have such issues even thought their default (and fixed) AR is less than 0.9.CXu wrote:
No. I think you're forgetting how AR8 looked when you first started playing (or have experience with other games that require good reflexes
Isn't reading something that is more applicable to higher levels than new players? It is more motivating to hit stuff than get a bunch of misses while seeing a pattern, but that's just my opinion.CXu wrote:
Also, clutter happens only on harder maps. Newer players will likely start at around Easy/Normal, and high AR will make any patterns indistinguishable, making it just a reaction game where you click on whatever pops up, and you learn nada when it comes to reading. Basically, there are less notes in easier difficulties, so they need to stay onscreen longer for any patterns to really emerge.
I did not remember AR8 wrongly, AR8 gave me problems from the start, in fact I can't pass AR8 till today
Then again, maybe its just preference.