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otonashi-senpai

FlyingKebab wrote:

I don't understand you people. You make it seem like osu is godly hard that even repeating the same thing for a month wouldn't grant you the ability to pass it. Give up, a person would be able to pass it in under a month of grinding, I think you are forgetting that grinding a map doesn't mean becoming good at the game but just MEMORIZING every god damn part of the entire map to not be able to fail in any possible way. Although no one is stupid enough to replicate what OP suggested but in reality you need more than a year to pass a map like Big Black on your first few tries but you only need a few weeks or a month to pass ONLY Big Black on your 9999999 try.

EDIT: I going to try playing Eighto 490 a few times everyday and see how much memorizing a map works even though i won't be able to really play a map like that in atleast a few months.
It's not about memorizing it, it's about skills that you need. And you won't develop any other skill than smashing your buttons mindlessly.
And with mindlessly button smashing you won't beat the map.
Grinding only works if your skills aren't too much below the map. Someone who never played the game would just press the buttons and hope that it works. He won't gain any skill that is required to beat the map. The map is way too hard and fast for a newbie to gain any skill.
You may be able to memorize is, but without the speed, accuracy and all the other 20 things that you develop through normal playing you won't beat the map.

I see that you never played ous mania. Go and play there an 6+ star 7k star song. And then come back and say you can memorize it.
GoldenWolf

FlyingKebab wrote:

I don't understand you people. You make it seem like osu is godly hard that even repeating the same thing for a month wouldn't grant you the ability to pass it. Give up, a person would be able to pass it in under a month of grinding, I think you are forgetting that grinding a map doesn't mean becoming good at the game but just MEMORIZING every god damn part of the entire map to not be able to fail in any possible way. Although no one is stupid enough to replicate what OP suggested but in reality you need more than a year to pass a map like Big Black on your first few tries but you only need a few weeks or a month to pass ONLY Big Black on your 9999999 try.

EDIT: I going to try playing Eighto 490 a few times everyday and see how much memorizing a map works even though i won't be able to really play a map like that in atleast a few months.
It doesn't matter how well you might know a map if you have 0 skills. If someone start osu! by only grinding Big Black he won't be able to pass it even after a year of grind. You can't build a tower without foundation.
osu! is not hard, you just click circles that appears on the screen to the rhythm of the song. Straigthforward. The difficulty is in doing it correctly. And you can't do it correctly if you haven't learnt the very basics and just start off grinding an AR10 fullscreen jumps map.
FlyingKebab
But that is the point, osu is only clicking circles which every healthy person can do. If you know where and when to click I don't really see what's stopping a person from passing big black as I said.
Sophia
If you leave a monkey beating on a typing machine for eternity, he may recreate Shakespeare.
FlyingKebab
Exactly, this is a trivial thing to discuss unless some neet tries to do this. Everything is possible.
GoldenWolf

FlyingKebab wrote:

But that is the point, osu is only clicking circles which every healthy person can do. If you know where and when to click I don't really see what's stopping a person from passing big black as I said.
Because osu! is not about the theory. If you haven't learn the basics you won't be capable of executing what you have to do to pass Big Black. It's about motor skills that takes months and years to devellop, you build them, like a tower of skill. No foundation = No tower.

I can't break it down further than this without repeating myself over and over, so I'll leave it here and just hope you will understand.
B1rd

Riince wrote:

Yauxo wrote:

He would eventually clear the map and FC it, but he wont be able to do the same level of play on other maps.
Best example is my toprank
might also be because that map is incredibly overrated
super jumps that are a lot harder than the rest of the map porbably give more pp than they should. But it's still sort of hard.
iWhorse

Riince wrote:

Yauxo wrote:

He would eventually clear the map and FC it, but he wont be able to do the same level of play on other maps.
Best example is my toprank
might also be because that map is incredibly overrated

so is TBB

few people that i know have cleared it in a few months without spamming that map over and over again, don't see why it wouldnt be possible with just retrying it?

way easier if you can play other maps\use mods though
Yakuyan
If even possible, he's only going to be good at that song and that's it.
winber1
no
silmarilen
the big black may be passable if you only play that for a whole year, it's really not such a hard map. but you wont be able to play osu so it's just a waste of time.
freedom dive on the other hand, i dont see anybody passing that if they start from nothing and play only that for a year.
Vuelo Eluko

silmarilen wrote:

the big black may be passable if you only play that for a whole year, it's really not such a hard map. but you wont be able to play osu so it's just a waste of time.
freedom dive on the other hand, i dont see anybody passing that if they start from nothing and play only that for a year.
some inexperienced people can clear freedom dive tho. show no mod only and you see that these people all were able to clear it with few misses.

https://osu.ppy.sh/u/4305152 Rank 27k, only 30 misses on 4D
https://osu.ppy.sh/u/2037608 Rank 13k, 74 misses, definitely the worst of the trio.
https://osu.ppy.sh/u/1490816 Rank 17k, a mere 48 misses on the fourth dimension.

So all things considered, Freedom Dive isn't that hard at all if these guys were all able to get on the top 50 for modless plays, most people should at LEAST be able to clear it with enough practice, right?.
Lach
If you think those scores are real (i couldn't find the scores on their top plays) then you might have downs or something. One of them has a B on rog-unlimitation as his top performance.
Vuelo Eluko

Lach wrote:

If you think those scores are real (i couldn't find the scores on their top plays) then you might have downs or something. One of them has a B on rog-unlimitation as his top performance.
of course its not on their top plays, most maps you clear with dozens misses and less than 1/8th of the maps max combo wont show up on your top ranks regardless of being 7 stars or not unless you have less than 100 completed maps in your top ranks anyway, but the fact remains they got on top 50 modless rankings

and i doubt they just played that map only for a year.

Or are you implying the scores are hacked?! Surely you have more faith in the osu community!
GoldenWolf

Riince wrote:

some inexperienced people can clear freedom dive tho. show no mod only and you see that these people all were able to clear it with few misses.

https://osu.ppy.sh/u/4305152 Rank 27k, only 30 misses on 4D
https://osu.ppy.sh/u/2037608 Rank 13k, 74 misses, definitely the worst of the trio.
https://osu.ppy.sh/u/1490816 Rank 17k, a mere 48 misses on the fourth dimension.

So all things considered, Freedom Dive isn't that hard at all if these guys were all able to get on the top 50 for modless plays, most people should at LEAST be able to clear it with enough practice, right?.
As if they're even legit. 3k playcounts passing freedom dive? Yeah legit as fuck.
Bauxe

Dm1321 wrote:

If you leave a monkey beating on a typing machine for eternity, he may recreate Shakespeare.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_m ... al_monkeys
Lach
All I'm saying is that if someone can't stream 220 for a few seconds, they can't stream 222.22 for a few minutes
1319

winber1 wrote:

no
Sophia

Bauxe wrote:

Dm1321 wrote:

If you leave a monkey beating on a typing machine for eternity, he may recreate Shakespeare.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_m ... al_monkeys
"In this context, "almost surely" is a mathematical term with a precise meaning, and the "monkey" is not an actual monkey, but a metaphor for an abstract device that produces an endless random sequence of letters and symbols."

Can't believe there was someone stupid enough to attempt that with real monkeys.
Topic Starter
A Little Moose
This was just a theory I wanted to see discussed, a lot of you had some good points. :) I wasn't specifically talking about Big Black. Eighto, however, would actually be a good example. It makes sense that without a foundation of at least SOME skill, it wouldn't be possible. Would it be any different if you took someone that had played around 100-200 times, perhaps? Just a debate, not an argument. :c
Aria Kanzaki
one would simply become the next cookiezi
FlyingKebab
<.< ...... >.> ....... Not sure if some1 deleted post or if i screwed up and missed the post button, oh well.
GoldenWolf

A Little Moose wrote:

Would it be any different if you took someone that had played around 100-200 times, perhaps?
Neither, in so few plays you don't have to the time to buld these foundations, even if you play efficiently
Maybe someone who gets to the ~4 stars level with solid basics might be able to perform decently (~A rank) on these hard maps after a year
Well actually that's how fast improved players did/do, but then again you need these foundations before moving on, so yeah.
iderekmc

A Little Moose wrote:

What if you were to take a complete newbie and put him on, for example, Big Black or Freedom Dive. You leave him there for a year to mindlessly repeat the same map an unlimited number of times, would he/she eventually gain the skill to be able to clear it having never played before? (I'm talking about mindlessly grinding it with unlimited patience like a robot).
the questrion doesnt make sense, u say "having never played before" but u say he has been 1 year trying the big black..
iderekmc

Yauxo wrote:

He would eventually clear the map and FC it, but he wont be able to do the same level of play on other maps.
Best example is my toprank
LOL no he wouldnt FC it
zqw_old
I got 82% acc after grinding only Big Black for 4 days.
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