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Anyone else full-alt?

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winber1
4,520 posts
Joined February 2010
winber1
stream ability and stream speed are different things.

singletapping will, guaranteed, increase your ability to stream faster better than going full alt. however full alternaters can obviously be faster streamers than some singletappers if they train correctly or by natural talent.

and note that he says fast streamer, and he even says probably, thus there is nothing wrong with his comment

the small things matter guys. pls.
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Vuelo Eluko
only size matters
winber1
4,520 posts
Joined February 2010
winber1
teemo would disagree
cheezstik
1,005 posts
Joined October 2013
cheezstik

Drezi wrote:

Single tapping is a completely different movement pattern than streaming, I find it strange how everyone seems to agree that getting better at singletapping trains your streaming ability too.

Riince wrote:

ye you dont get any better at streaming by singletapping, only by streaming. i guess if you practiced finger only singletapping by keeping your wrist as still as possible and switched up the finger you did it with.. maybe? why wouldnt you just practice streaming instead though at that point.
I just realised my embed video link didn't work in my last post, I'll just put the url in this time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nr_A3fO5lIQ

Doomsday, one of the best streamers in the world, shows how fast he can single tap in that video. I don't think it's a coincidence that his single tap speed is so fast, something tells me it has to do with his streaming ability.
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Vuelo Eluko
because maps with fast streams also tend to have fast singletapping he didnt just exclusively practice one :o
Jordan
1,037 posts
Joined December 2010
Jordan

koromo wrote:

I'm most likely one of the extremely rare cases of people who used to single tap but switched to alternating. It just feels more natural than single tapping for some reason, can't see myself going back.

It's just a play style, plenty of people full alt.
^
Been alternating since early 2012
nrl
1,402 posts
Joined October 2011
nrl

cheezstik wrote:

Except with guitar, how fast you can downstroke doesn't translate to how fast you can tremolo pick, whereas on osu a fast single tapper will probably be a fast streamer and vice versa.
Wrong on both counts.

halfalternate
I call it three-speed. Makes more sense to me.
cheezstik
1,005 posts
Joined October 2013
cheezstik

NarrillNezzurh wrote:

cheezstik wrote:

Except with guitar, how fast you can downstroke doesn't translate to how fast you can tremolo pick, whereas on osu a fast single tapper will probably be a fast streamer and vice versa.
Wrong on both counts.
I play guitar, tremolo picking was simple and I could literally do it on time accurately within my first week, despite bing slow overall. It's just a vibrating motion while actual controlled picking, downstroke or alternate, is actual picking. And as i linked before, doomsday, one of the best streamers having insane single tap speeds. Same goes for dragonhuman, rrtyui, cookiezi, and WWW, dont think it's coincidence.
nrl
1,402 posts
Joined October 2011
nrl
Tremolo picking by vibrating your whole arm is bad technique. You should be using more or less the same motion as you do when you alternate, in which case downpicking speed and tremolo speed are just as correlated as downpicking and alternating speed. But even if you do use your arm, the motions are similar enough that improving your downpicking speed will benefit your tremolo speed. The key is that the movement occurs within the same plane of motion for both techniques; the return from a downpick and the upward component of the tremolo pick are, for all techniques, primarily differentiated by the depth of the pick.

Single tapping and streaming, however, don't occur in the same plane of motion; even if you use the same technique for the two, each keypress requires its own discrete motion. If you exclusively use finger motion, each finger must be moved independently. If you exclusively use wrist rotation, the two keypresses occur at opposite extremes of your range of motion. And obviously if you single tap with wrist, or use a hybrid motion, and stream with your fingers you're using two totally different sets of muscles.

The examples you list are all top-level players who, by virtue of their ranks, necessarily excel in all aspects of the game. They aren't valid examples. There are, however, droves of players in the lower ranks who have horrendous discrepancies between their single-tapping and streaming speeds.
cheezstik
1,005 posts
Joined October 2013
cheezstik

NarrillNezzurh wrote:

Tremolo picking by vibrating your whole arm is bad technique. You should be using more or less the same motion as you do when you alternate, in which case downpicking speed and tremolo speed are just as correlated as downpicking and alternating speed. But even if you do use your arm, the motions are similar enough that improving your downpicking speed will benefit your tremolo speed. The key is that the movement occurs within the same plane of motion for both techniques; the return from a downpick and the upward component of the tremolo pick are, for all techniques, primarily differentiated by the depth of the pick.

Single tapping and streaming, however, don't occur in the same plane of motion; even if you use the same technique for the two, each keypress requires its own discrete motion. If you exclusively use finger motion, each finger must be moved independently. If you exclusively use wrist rotation, the two keypresses occur at opposite extremes of your range of motion. And obviously if you single tap with wrist, or use a hybrid motion, and stream with your fingers you're using two totally different sets of muscles.

The examples you list are all top-level players who, by virtue of their ranks, necessarily excel in all aspects of the game. They aren't valid examples. There are, however, droves of players in the lower ranks who have horrendous discrepancies between their single-tapping and streaming speeds.
But didn't we agree that single tapping is a matter of preference and not skill? So no matter how high level they are, they are fast single tappers, which is related to their streaming speed, which is also fast, and at the same time, they all prefer single tapping as opposed to alternate. And doomsday is on a considerably lower level than the others, despite still being one of the best in the world, he is really only on the same level as the others at streaming, not aim. Despite being worse than them overall, he has faster single tapping speed than the rest of them, so I think their high level ranks doesn't make them invalid examples.
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Vuelo Eluko
i can comfortably mantain my singletap up to 260 bpm but can only mantain decent [95%+] acc on 200 bpm streams, but that's because i rarely practice streaming and constantly practice singletapping...

i really should work on my streaming sometime soon.
nrl
1,402 posts
Joined October 2011
nrl

cheezstik wrote:

But didn't we agree that single tapping is a matter of preference and not skill? So no matter how high level they are, they are fast single tappers, which is related to their streaming speed, which is also fast, and at the same time, they all prefer single tapping as opposed to alternate. And doomsday is on a considerably lower level than the others, despite still being one of the best in the world, he is really only on the same level as the others at streaming, not aim. Despite being worse than them overall, he has faster single tapping speed than the rest of them, so I think their high level ranks doesn't make them invalid examples.
Uhm... what? None of that is relevant to what I said.
cheezstik
1,005 posts
Joined October 2013
cheezstik

NarrillNezzurh wrote:

cheezstik wrote:

But didn't we agree that single tapping is a matter of preference and not skill? So no matter how high level they are, they are fast single tappers, which is related to their streaming speed, which is also fast, and at the same time, they all prefer single tapping as opposed to alternate. And doomsday is on a considerably lower level than the others, despite still being one of the best in the world, he is really only on the same level as the others at streaming, not aim. Despite being worse than them overall, he has faster single tapping speed than the rest of them, so I think their high level ranks doesn't make them invalid examples.
Uhm... what? None of that is relevant to what I said.
It's a reply to this part here:

NarrillNezzurh wrote:

The examples you list are all top-level players who, by virtue of their ranks, necessarily excel in all aspects of the game. They aren't valid examples. There are, however, droves of players in the lower ranks who have horrendous discrepancies between their single-tapping and streaming speeds.
So basically, I said they are valid examples and why.
nrl
1,402 posts
Joined October 2011
nrl
Right, but your why isn't relevant to what I said. Balancing your skills is essential in ranking as highly as they have, so there's nothing special about all of them having similar single-tapping and streaming speeds.
cheezstik
1,005 posts
Joined October 2013
cheezstik

NarrillNezzurh wrote:

Right, but your why isn't relevant to what I said. Balancing your skills is essential in ranking as highly as they have, so there's nothing special about all of them having similar single-tapping and streaming speeds.
That's the thing though, doomsday isn't as balanced as them, he is clearly more focused on streaming, and only his streaming skills can match the streaming of the other players, while his aim is much further behind. Despite being not as good overall, he single taps faster than the other players, which is probably related to him focusing more on streams, and being better at streams than he is at aim.

Anyway, tl;dr and summary of my opinion on single tapping, single tapping = stream speed, faster single tapper = faster streamer, this might not apply to everyone but it definitely seems like the usual, logical fact.
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Vuelo Eluko

cheezstik wrote:

he single taps faster than the other players, which is probably related to him focusing more on streams, and being better at streams than he is at aim.
???????
he got good at singletapping by singletapping
nrl
1,402 posts
Joined October 2011
nrl

cheezstik wrote:

That's the thing though, doomsday isn't as balanced as them, he is clearly more focused on streaming, and only his streaming skills can match the streaming of the other players, while his aim is much further behind. Despite being not as good overall, he single taps faster than the other players, which is probably related to him focusing more on streams, and being better at streams than he is at aim.
You're all over the place with this.

First off, I'm glad you also see the correlation between rank and balance of skills. Note that this works against you here.

Second, you state that Doomsday matches the other players you've listed in streaming speeds but surpasses them in single-tapping speed. This implies that the two are, to some degree, independent of each other, which is important because you stated that the general trend is for them not to be.

Third, you still haven't given any evidence to support the claim that single-tapping and streaming speed are linked. You've stated that your own observations have shown this to be the case, but because mine have shown just the opposite that doesn't really mean anything.

Fourth, you still haven't offered a relevant rebuttal to my claim that the players you listed aren't valid examples.
cheezstik
1,005 posts
Joined October 2013
cheezstik

Riince wrote:

cheezstik wrote:

he single taps faster than the other players, which is probably related to him focusing more on streams, and being better at streams than he is at aim.
???????
he got good at singletapping by singletapping
So how comes he single taps faster than the likes of snowwhite and dragonhuman, despite them being better overall? Despite being on a different level, they didn't train single tapping? Cos I think it's related to them not focusing as much on streams.

Why don't we think of single tapping as an equation, let's say x = 2y, x is streaming speed and y is single tapping speed. Streaming with your x or z key broken would be pretty damn similar to single tapping.
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Vuelo Eluko
considering the motions for singletapping and streaming are different... the example doesnt really work.
you're oversimplifying the concept of training speed by thinking practicing streaming will directly improve your singletap speed and that's how you get fast at it
cheezstik
1,005 posts
Joined October 2013
cheezstik

NarrillNezzurh wrote:

cheezstik wrote:

That's the thing though, doomsday isn't as balanced as them, he is clearly more focused on streaming, and only his streaming skills can match the streaming of the other players, while his aim is much further behind. Despite being not as good overall, he single taps faster than the other players, which is probably related to him focusing more on streams, and being better at streams than he is at aim.
You're all over the place with this.

First off, I'm glad you also see the correlation between rank and balance of skills. Note that this works against you here.

Second, you state that Doomsday matches the other players you've listed in streaming speeds but surpasses them in single-tapping speed. This implies that the two are, to some degree, independent of each other, which is important because you stated that the general trend is for them not to be.

Third, you still haven't given any evidence to support the claim that single-tapping and streaming speed are linked. You've stated that your own observations have shown this to be the case, but because mine have shown just the opposite that doesn't really mean anything.

Fourth, you still haven't offered a relevant rebuttal to my claim that the players you listed aren't valid examples.
Ok my bad, I said he matches the other players in streaming because I wasn't confident saying he streams better than WWW or Cookiezi, but I can at least confidently say that he is a better streamer than snowwhite, the current #1, and at the same time, obviously, being a faster single tapper.

As for real evidence to support the claim that single tapping and streaming speed are linked, there is none proving it 100%, but majority of the top players mostly single tap, and each of those players will be good at streaming. Now this whole time I haven't been saying that alternators stream slower by any means, but I'm just saying that if you can single tap as fast as someone as doomsday you are probably going to get pretty damn fast at streaming. Alternators can stream just as fast as single tappers, and theoretically they could probably single tap just as fast as well, but they feel more comfortable alternating. I guess we can think of it like spinning clockwise or counter.

I think that is the best we can leave it at for now, until Osu finds a way to document and display streaming speed and single tapping speed etc. on profiles, we will have no real evidence. At least I know that when I improved my single tap speed, my streaming speed and control improved with it.
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