i still don't understand why people care so much about this
well, the matter itself actually opened up some interesting discussion. people are just too busy with their uselss petty war so that the discussion that is going on and is viable goes under in it.
i still don't understand why people care so much about this
it's a extreme case of white knight with a touch of if i get thrown under the bus everyone gets thrown under the bus, aka a drama party.
to put it in tl;dr zoe was a girl on the internet who slept with guys to get her stuff aka popularity and access to things. It's really interesting cuz if you talk about it on like reddit or any other site that had something to do with zoe, you will be banned instantly. that's why it's called the "zoe conspiracy".
♪yume wa kono heya no naka de~
♪yasashii uta wo zutto kimi ni utatteita~
♪nani ga honto no koto nano~
♪ichiban tsuyoku shinjirareru sekai wo oikakete~
♪kimi no gin no niwa he~
i couldnt care less about gaming journalism i rarely play indie games and i had never even heard of any of the websites that are involved in this matter. what i do care about is that everybody that calls her out on her wrongdoings is labeled as misogynistic, because obviously the only reason they attack her is because of her gender and not because she is a fucking bitch. and that she made a scapegoat out of a website used by actual depressed people so she could start her campaign. it's funny how pretty much only the white knights are mentioning her gender, who is the sexist now?
i couldnt care less about gaming journalism i rarely play indie games and i had never even heard of any of the websites that are involved in this matter. what i do care about is that everybody that calls her out on her wrongdoings is labeled as misogynistic, because obviously the only reason they attack her is because of her gender and not because she is a fucking bitch. and that she made a scapegoat out of a website used by actual depressed people so she could start her men hate campaign. it's funny that the only people mentioning her gender are the white knights defending her, who is the sexist now?
this is one of the exact arguments I consistently see in terms of people ragging on her even further.
Here's a few things:
bitch is misogynistic language.
The issue at hand is that she is being accused of sleeping with Kotaku/RPS writers and for what it's worth, Kotaku at least debunked it
As far as "launching her men hate campaign" and the entire bouts of misogyny are concerned, there are a few problems with your reasoning. A lot of the attacks against her have to deal with the not just the fact that she is a woman in the industry, but that she is outspoken and brash in addition to the allegations in her sexual history. I don't agree with the idea of sleeping her way to the top, which are claims that have been disproven for the most part, that's just unethical. As far as her cheating, that's her private life that's being put on full blast and treated like public controversy.
But back to the topic of her "being a bitch", or not taking the matter submissively or using toned down language, you have to be able to brashly defend yourself in situations like this. If a dude were to be defending himself like this, he wouldn't be put down nearly this much, or he would be defended for his actions. Use of misogynistic language is hardly the biggest offense here, as she has been threatened with rape and murder, driven from her home, her family and friends (completely unrelated to the incident) have been threatened...but it's still not acceptable.
Also, the "man hate campaign" or "pointing out sexism in the game industry, with which sexism is a legit problem"? Whatever. It'd be like an uphill battle trying to explain it at this point.
tl;dr: alleged wrongdoings put on full public blast, she doesn't take it lying down, gets misogynistic responses/threats, shit is unacceptable.
If she actually did sleep with people to get good publicity, I don't condone her actions. Of course not, that's basic ethics. If she simply cheated on her boyfriend? That's hardly industry-shaking controversy. People fuck, people cheat. Some people in the game industry happen to do that with each other. This entire thread is arguing over a bunch of hypothetical situations ("What if she did?" "What if she didn't?") and that's honestly not productive. Who gives a shit about an indie dev's sex life? We're all arguing hypothetical situations when different sources both confirm and deny the end result you are all so convinced she had.
This shit is toxic, though. I'm dropping it now but god damn.
If that's true, then I'm wondering why this thread hasn't been wastelanded yet. No offense, seriously.
Storm- wrote:
Ephemeral wrote:
if you talk about it on like reddit or any other site that had something to do with zoe, you will be banned instantly. that's why it's called the "zoe conspiracy".
is asshole misandric aswell then? should i have used a gender neutral word? i couldnt care less about that stuff. just because a certain word is only used on women does not make it misogynistic. it is not hate directed at women, it is hate directed at a person that happens to be a woman.
Mogsworth wrote:
The issue at hand is that she is being accused of sleeping with Kotaku/RPS writers and for what it's worth, Kotaku at least debunked it
like i said i couldnt care less about that. i care about the things i mentioned.
Mogsworth wrote:
As far as "launching her men hate campaign"
i editted this out of my post already.
Mogsworth wrote:
Also, the "man hate campaign" or "pointing out sexism in the game industry, with which sexism is a legit problem"? Whatever. It'd be like an uphill battle trying to explain it at this point.
sexism is always an issue, not just in videogames. the thing is that videogames have been mostly aimed at male people for the bigger part of their lives, and things are changing now.
Mogsworth wrote:
tl;dr: alleged wrongdoings put on full public blast, she doesn't take it lying down, gets misogynistic responses/threats, shit is unacceptable.
i dont know wether or not she got messages of misogynistic nature, but the thing is that what gets published is people who are NOT being misogynistic, but simply hating on a person for different reasons, getting the misogynistic label put on them.
the only misogynistic thing i have seen is someone on wizardchan saying "women dont know what it's like to be depressed" or something along those lines. and she would never have had to see that, since it's a male only community anyway, hidden somewhere on the internet where sane people dont want to go.
The word misogyny means the hatred of WOMEN. So unless the comments were made because she was female, or insults being made on the basis that she is female, please do not wrongfully label them as misogynistic.
Mogsworth wrote:
Regardless of how you feel on the situation, nobody should be unable to return to their home over fucking video games
It wasn't over videogames. Go read what she did.
silmarilen wrote:
it's funny how pretty much only the white knights are mentioning her gender, who is the sexist now?
Yeah but she- Oh wait, too sexist. When the news report stuff like "a 24 year old man is going around robbing people"? Oh no, sexist also. Its only sexist if you say one's actions are due to their gender, with no physical/biological reason.
Mogsworth wrote:
The issue at hand is that she is being accused of sleeping with Kotaku/RPS writers and for what it's worth, Kotaku at least debunked it
Go watch the videos in the OP. Anyway, claim without proof against another claim with so much evidence isn't going to debunk anything.
Let's elaborate a little, shall we? (quote was modified)
Mogsworth wrote:
If she actually did sleep with people to get good publicity, I don't condone her actions. Of course not, that's basic ethics. If she simply cheated on her boyfriend? That's hardly industry-shaking controversy. People fuck, people cheat. Some people in the game industry happen to do that with each other and skew game reviews which affect customer decisions. This entire thread is arguing If she did or not, and if the community was right call her out on itover a bunch of hypothetical situations ("What if she did?" "What if she didn't?") and that's honestly not productive. Who gives a shit about the sex life of an indie dev who has the power to censor so many boards and connections to people with such great influence and has been suspected of using said sex life to censor, alter reviews, cheat money, and endanger people's jobs? We're all arguing hypothetical situations when different sources both confirm with substantial evidence and deny without any evidence and thus the end result is that you are all so convinced she had.
Of course stories are not worth discussing when you leave out the important details.
Edit to avoid double posting and removed colors.
Remember free speech? That's your ticket to talk crap. Remember feminism? That's your ticket to call anyone who points out your nonsense a misogynistic bigot. Because the only reason they tell you you're wrong is that you're female.
Interesting. As a woman, I was never bothered by it.
Zoe Quinn is not being criticized because she's a woman. I think we can all agree on that. In fact, if a man did this, we would be doing the same thing. Her actions are being scrutinized not because she had sexual relations with five guys (trust me, nobody cares about this) during a relationship, but because those five men can help her get publicity (therefore, more money.) Why shouldn't we care about this? Some idiots are corrupting the gaming journalism industry in front of us and are we just going to sit back and enjoy the scenery? No way, José. Gaming journalism has the potential to be taken seriously and I really don't want to let some fucking idiots ruin it and treat it like a joke, as always.
And what do you mean "if she did this, if she did that"? She CONFESSED her actions. If you look the facts up, they're actually there. Her ex-boyfriend posted those Facebook messages and even showed a video of them.
Kotaku at least debunked it
No. Kotaku is not really a reliable source in this situation, sorry.
And what she did to TFYC is absolutely horrendous and I can't believe some people are letting her getting away with this. Have you seen her tweets about it?
"oops we DDOS'ed something on accident"
:^)
And there is so much more, but if you're interested enough to Google it, the results are right there. The evidence is out there. People just don't want to see them because Zoe Quinn is, apparently, a "respected game dev" and the white knights are so obsessed with protecting this "damsel in distress". Who's the sexist one here, really? I already answered that for you. Oh, and how about the whole Greenlight situation? Many, MANY people didn't want Depression Quest on Steam and they downvoted it, and yet somehow it's up there? It really seems kind of fishy to me, sorry not sorry.
TL;DR: Zoe Quinn is a horrible person not because she's a woman, but because of her actions. She, along with other SJWs, tried to stop a project that was meant to help WOMEN in the gaming industry. A project that was meant to give WOMEN an opportunity like every other male. And not only that, but to raise money for CHARITY. But of course, to Zoe Quinn everything has to be about money and fame. I'm really ashamed to have people like her and Anita Sarkeesian be the spokeswomen for female gamers.
If anyone is insulting for her sex, they're the fucking idiots, not us.
It's not even about Quinn anymore. She's even come to terms with TFYC which I must say have been incredibly forgiving. People are mainly still talking about this because Kotaku and the other "journalism" websites involved have done absolutely nothing since the scandal happened and some of the "journalists" are posting incredibly derogatory comments on social media. People are contacting companies that have contracts with these websites, reporting their behavior and truthfully it might not end well for them at all.
I just want gaming websites to talk about video games again, and not some petty bullshit only SJWs care about.
It's not even about Quinn anymore. She's even come to terms with TFYC which I must say have been incredibly forgiving.
TFYC has better things to deal with, so I don't blame them if they want to passively end this drama rather than sticking to it.
Mr Color wrote:
I just want gaming websites to talk about video games again, and not some petty bullshit only SJWs care about.
It's because SJWs give more clicks, so I really doubt these websites are going to stop writing bullshit for a long time. Gaming journalism doesn't care about videogames and quality anymore, they just want dem money and clicks.
its amazing how little i care about this like im just posting because of how shocking it is. like, out of all the things that have happened in the world, even things i dont know about, this is by far the least i've cared about anything in the past 20 years thats really impressive
Common ground! We finally have some! Tell me more detail about how you feel about it so I can match it up with my own feelings and we can connect on a deeper still level.
The fact that this is being contested here kind of goes to show that osu! isn't where you want to go to have a SERIOUS DISCUSSION NOT AN ATTACK AGAINST ZOE REALLY about misogyny and feminism.
i still don't understand why people care so much about this
Nobody does. Go to your local store and go like "hey you heard about that Zoe Quinn stuff" and you'll get weird looks at best.
It's all confined to the internet, and lot of the rage doesn't just go towards game journalism corruption but towards all this "feminazi" crap that has exponentially grown in recent months. That's where the *real* rage is concentrated and what people get emotional about. That's why censoring is happening, because honestly a lot of it *is* sexist and offensive, and websites would rather just hide it than try to accommodate for it.
I honestly *can't* understand it. How can a diminutive group of people spewing out some incoherent crap (the "feminazis") trigger *so* many people into collective hysteria? As if people saying stupid shit was something new. Makes me think there's more to it than people just disagreeing with something that isn't big or new.
Dulcet wrote:
Interesting. As a woman, I was never bothered by it.
I don't necessarily disagree with the rest of your post, but that's just ridiculous.
I don't think many guys care about that. Why do you think women are any different?
"Dick" isn't a male gender equivalent to "bitch". In fact, I don't think there's any word for men that carries the same force.
If I were to answer your question, I'd say it's two things. 1. Because women tend to be emotionally weaker and 2. Because it's sexist/degrading if coming from a man. A woman can degrade a man but cases of that happening are much less common than cases of men degrading women. So I think it's wrong calling a woman a bitch because it refers to their gender, which is stupid because that's like insulting someone for their lack of privilege. It's ignorant.
I use gender neutral words like idiot and asshole in cases where I need to insult a woman.
Edit: I don't understand why my posts are not getting formatted correctly
"Dick" isn't a male gender equivalent to "bitch". In fact, I don't think there's any word for men that carries the same force.
If I were to answer your question, I'd say it's two things. 1. Because women tend to be emotionally weaker and 2. Because it's sexist/degrading if coming from a man. A woman can degrade a man but cases of that happening are much less common than cases of men degrading women.
"Women tend to be emotionally weaker"? You can't make an issue of sexist language when you're saying the genders aren't equal emotionally. You're saying that women should get special treatment for being women.
"Dick" isn't a male gender equivalent to "bitch". In fact, I don't think there's any word for men that carries the same force.
If I were to answer your question, I'd say it's two things. 1. Because women tend to be emotionally weaker and 2. Because it's sexist/degrading if coming from a man. A woman can degrade a man but cases of that happening are much less common than cases of men degrading women.
"Women tend to be emotionally weaker"? You can't make an issue of sexist language when you're saying the genders aren't equal emotionally. You're saying that women should get special treatment for being women.
The genders aren't equal. There's debate over whether the differences between the two sides are socially constructed or biologically/genetically driven. I think it's both, meaning both gender sides are set to be likely different from time of birth.
If you get mad at the word feminism, you're likely thinking of those feminists who think all gender differences are socially constructed, who may therefore believe women are socially constructed by men to be weaker, hence "oppression". Taking an issue with feminism because of a single cult-like group within it is generalization and just plain ignorant. The whole Zoe Quinn crap reeks of that very ignorance.
Yes I can take an issue with sexist language and say that both sexes aren't equal. I did not say that women should get special treatment for being women, but I do think that's true, specially on a worldwide scale in places like Pakistan or Nigeria. and also on interpersonal relations, but that's a different matter
If I were to answer your question, I'd say it's two things. 1. Because women tend to be emotionally weaker and 2. Because it's sexist/degrading if coming from a man. A woman can degrade a man but cases of that happening are much less common than cases of men degrading women. So I think it's wrong calling a woman a bitch because it refers to their gender, which is stupid because that's like insulting someone for their lack of privilege. It's ignorant.
If I were to answer your question, I'd say it's two things. 1. Because women tend to be emotionally weaker and 2. Because it's sexist/degrading if coming from a man. A woman can degrade a man but cases of that happening are much less common than cases of men degrading women. So I think it's wrong calling a woman a bitch because it refers to their gender, which is stupid because that's like insulting someone for their lack of privilege. It's ignorant.
Ironically, that's quite sexist.
Because I said women tend to be emotionally weaker? it's impressive how people disagree with that. I'm just stating a fact, not necessarily how things ought to be. Nor am I saying it's a biological trait. I shouldn't have to prove this because real life experience should be enough proof, unless you live in a fantasy world like those portrayed in anime/manga media.
Mr Color wrote:
I call people names when they're being fuckers and I couldn't give less of a shit what gender they are
If their personal identity feels hurt maybe they shouldn't be fuckers in the first place and nothing bad will happen
Exactly. I bet that if people didn't immidiately refer to Quinn with gender specific insults, or even refer to her gender at all, the focus of the issue would be on game journalism corruption... like it should. But it just isn't. Instead it turned into a social issue.
So /v/ created an ebin oc waifu whose favorite phrase is "Can we just play?", but meanwhile on /v/... So why do people on /v/ care about Zoe Quinn/#GG/autistic things?
Mostly because now with 4chan being the main reason for both Quinnspiracy and The Fappening, moot has gone cold, threw most old mods out and got a bunch of SJWs to replace the mods there.
People are getting banned for things that are normally not ban worthy. Calling someone an idiot in a thread? You get banned for insulting another person. /v/ especially on this, if it doesn't relate in any way towards a certain game, it's a ban. Talking about Gamergate is a ban.
Mostly because now with 4chan being the main reason for both Quinnspiracy and The Fappening, moot has gone cold, threw most old mods out and got a bunch of SJWs to replace the mods there.
People are getting banned for things that are normally not ban worthy. Calling someone an idiot in a thread? You get banned for insulting another person. /v/ especially on this, if it doesn't relate in any way towards a certain game, it's a ban. Talking about Gamergate is a ban.
That's mostly why people on /v/ care...
http://www.4chan.org/bans Huh? I'm no SJW, but this would've never happened if GaymurGate didn't happen. I'm sure moot has received threats of suing.
