-Kamikaze- wrote:

Sakura, I don't really understand why is that a problem. It sounds good, it doesn't affect playability, it doesn't cause any unrankable problems, so why? Is making song sound a little bit diffrent with sb really that bad? In BMS they do it all the time just to be able to overmap (like with imperishable night, mania version is also overmapped and by A LOT), but here that's not the case. Mind explaining in detail?
Also I agree, I think that Zenx's part is much better than mine, but uh, nothing I can do

every BMS song has own their keysounds. comparing to Imperishable Night 2006, yes indeed that map is overmapped with all those chords in it, but those keysounds are related BGM and sound like the original song from BMS. Unlike the notes in Z3nx's part of Tokio Funka , placing note at somewhere with a sound that does not requires such amount of notes and add hitsound to make it sounds like there was sound in the original music.

Mapping in mania is trying to show the original rhythm and the unique part of the sound instead of creating your own. Also the hitsounds are overused in the map, such amount of hitsounds will increase the file size of the map by a lot, this is unnecessary when the map is not keysounded map and the hitsounds are overlap with the original mp3 which can not be heard, we should try our best to make the file size as small as possible. If you think I am not good enough for BAT or checking this map, feel free to look for the next one. No need to waste your time with a BAT that you don't think will go well with your map.

[ S a k u r a ] wrote:

If you think I am not good enough for BAT or checking this map, feel free to look for the next one. No need to waste your time with a BAT that you don't think will go well with your map.

Don't put words in my mouth please.
I am more than happy with having this awesome hitsounding (which was praised by ExPew when I first showed him this map), so I'm not going to change it. Raika will only recheck it and fix unsnapped sb notes after zenx replies (or not). I'm currently waiting for zenx's reply and then I'll decide what to do, I'm going to support him and if he doesn't want to remap it by all means I'm not going to force him. He is the reason why this map exists in the first place, so I will respect everything he says.
I myself am not giving up just yet.

ExPew wrote:

-Kamikaze- wrote:

Sakura, I don't really understand why is that a problem. It sounds good, it doesn't affect playability, it doesn't cause any unrankable problems, so why? Is making song sound a little bit diffrent with sb really that bad? In BMS they do it all the time just to be able to overmap (like with imperishable night, mania version is also overmapped and by A LOT), but here that's not the case. Mind explaining in detail?
Also I agree, I think that Zenx's part is much better than mine, but uh, nothing I can do

every BMS song has own their keysounds. comparing to Imperishable Night 2006, yes indeed that map is overmapped with all those chords in it, but those keysounds are related BGM and sound like the original song from BMS. Unlike the notes in Z3nx's part of Tokio Funka , placing note at somewhere with a sound that does not requires such amount of notes and add hitsound to make it sounds like there was sound in the original music.

Actually Imperishable Night 2006 Lunatic (aka overjoy 2) has overmapped bursts. In original BoF version of the song there's a constant 1/4, no 1/8 bursts. That's the infamous BMS delay. It also was used in Chocoliti's Haelequin to justify 1/8 and 1/12 bursts and that was ranked not that long ago.I agree that mapping to additional hitsound is not very good, but using more notes to express single sound is okay in my opinion if it's arranged in a way that makes it play same like 1 note. Take the chord section you were complaining about. It's a [1234] chord and stairs on right hand. It would play exactly the same as 1 note chord on left hand, this is just ensuring that you have to hit with whole hand, so it's not too easy. Of course, everyone has their opinions and you're free to think bad about it, all I'm asking for is trying to understand how it works and why exactly that's mapped like it is.

ExPew wrote:

[Marathon]

00:41:529 (41529|0) - delete, no need if you want to put the LN already Mapped left hand to low pitched drum here - where got the drum instrument here? please respect the composer instrument base and try not make additional hitsounds for your own rhythm.

;_________; there is a very low pitched bass thingy

00:41:779 (41779|0) - ^ Mapped left hand to low pitched drum here . ok thats fine

00:41:904 (41904|2,41966|1) - remove, ^ Mapped left hand to low pitched drum here ( ask fullerene, he's probably right since he is a master at placing notes ) I think it also matches the vocal pitch transition not pretty much clear this, i don't feel there got a triplet, in my suggestion 00:41:904 (41904|2) - remove this note and 00:41:966 (41966|1) - move this note on removed notes 00:41:904 - |3|

fullerene why | 00:41:966 - removed this 1/8, the other should be fine

00:43:529 (43529|2) - ^ Mapped left hand to low pitched drum here remove it! same reason on the first part as i said
There is a low pitched thingy here so there's a note

00:44:279 - for these chords, I don't think this is comfrtable, suggest remove the ones on column 2 or move it to other column I have no idea how is it hard to push the whole hand down here (?) sakura is right, considered as overnote
(1)

ok firstly, you said sakura is right, means that you agree that it's uncomfortable:

you agree that a (123) chord is uncomfortable

I'm sorry but i can't really understand, 123 feels great to press down ( maybe it's just me, idk )

(2)

I'm sorry but i have never heard of the term overnote
But i honestly think that if a map is comfortable with "overnote" i think it's good to go!
IDK why it would
1) Make players sad
2) Make players confused
3) Make players rate 1/10
4) Make players rage at me cause it's too comfortable
5) Make players want to write an essay to me cause notes in the chart don't represent anything unless the patterns are uncomfortable! In which I think it's not really the case as all the play testers say my part is cool and they have good acc and score on it! But hey, that's just like 10 testplayers lol!


00:46:529 (46529|5) - should ends at 00:46:779 - since the string instrument and the vocal both are The vocal is the same here, basically a repetition, using a shield LN here to represent that, a 1/4 spacing so that it plays better -[color=#0000FF] looks both are fine, it's up to you[/color]

00:58:277 - 00:59:277 - why are these 3 notes please remove 1 note Err cause i mapped 3 notes (?) and it cause i wanna keep the center note here for rhythm (?), well basically a thumb trill patterning here the note count are not similar with previous part even repeated. i highly recommend make it same for better quality or explain all of each note you refer from.

Same argument and point i made earlier, if it's comfortable and fun, it should be good to go and oh yes i'm actually going to explain all the notes

00:58:027 (58027|0,58152|2,58277|0,58402|2,58527|1,58652|2,58777|1,58902|2,59027|0,59152|2,59277|0,59402|2,59527|1) - this is to represent all the vocals here, with the index finger as an anchor
00:58:027 (58027|4,58152|5,58277|4,58402|5,58527|4,58652|6,58777|4,58902|6,59027|4,59152|5,59277|4,59402|6) - Same as ^
00:58:027 (58027|3,58277|3,58527|3,58777|3,59027|3,59277|3,59527|3,59777|3) - To keep in rhythm and also as an anchor
00:59:527 (59527|4,59527|5,59777|4,59777|5,60027|5) - These are hammered for emphasis on vocals
00:59:527 (59527|1,59652|2,59777|0,59902|2,60027|1) - These notes are to keep the 1/2 flow

But hey, you are probably picking on the technical stuff which is not entirely wrong but i prioritize playability over how good it looks!


00:59:777 - whats the difference between this and 00:58:402 - what, it's rather different in note placement alright

01:00:652 - If you are mapping this small sound, there is one at 01:00:777 - too, but I suggest you to remove it and map the clap instead Focusing on the unique vocal rhythm here, i feel that it's better to emphasize it entirely ignoring other sounds so as to bring out the vocal mapping here

01:01:652 - same as above, I suggest to map the drum at 01:01:527 - and the claps at 01:01:777 - Same as above

01:03:152 - ~ 01:04:027 - a bit uncomfortable Dooon't think so.. i asked a couple of people about this ( and saw them FC these kinds of patterns without trouble ) ez to fc but sick quality caused of overnote with BGM(example this note 01:03:652 (63652|2,63652|0,63652|1,63902|1,63902|3,63902|2) - obviously, please hear carefully

Don't kinda get what's "sick quality" but if it's a compliment i'll take it

Same reason as previously, i prioritize playability over technical mapping/charting/ste- oh wait this is not 4k
And i probably achieved my goal which is cool "ez to fc"
but yea i use heavy chords there so as to map to the strong drums in hitsounds


01:07:777 - add Focusing on the vocal here, thus i ignored some instruments and emphasized the starting vocal 1/4 after this with a chord

01:09:777 - ^^^ Focusing on vocal

01:11:027 - ~ 01:11:902 - a bit uncomfortable Yeeaa, alot of people fced this no problem, so i think it's cool huh? dont think about people. i highly recommend follow the rhythm well here
01:30:402 - why so many chords here, I don't think they are necessary, i highly recommend remove them. Err no, i think they play fine and are pretty fun for people you're thinking your mapping for fun but not thinking overall base quality. im not accept those chord obviously nonsense. use note properly

(1)
overall base quality :

Quality :
how good or bad something is:
a shop advertising top quality electrical goods
The food was of such poor/low quality.
Their products are of very high quality.
I only buy good-quality wine.
The quality of the picture on our television isn't very good.

o wait you can't really judge a map 100% if it's good or bad, but i'm trying to achieve an intention of making my part fun!
mapping for fun Yea i think you got my point, don't think there's anything wrong here for me tbh, unless you are forcing me to change my mapping style which is apparently a taboo in the mania modding world o_O

accept those chord obviously nonsense oh no you insulted my mapping style!
"forcing me to change my mapping style"

obviously nonsense, hold on i need to give you the concrete definition

Nonsense :
an idea, something said or written, or behaviour that is silly or stupid:

Don't think it's either silly or stupid, i have never heard of anyone saying my part is uncomfortable to play, in which my intention is to have my part really
fun and enjoyable, thus i have achieved my goal, that's the idea of the pattern there!

obviously :

I think you know the meaning, but putting absolute words like these make me feel that you didn't even bother to try my part, but i'm pretty sure you did (lol)



01:33:652 (93652|4,93652|5,93902|4,93902|5) - remove, or reduce It's mapped to the vocals

01:35:027 - again, I do not think this requires that much chords Eeeh, hammering with 1 note or a 2 note chord or a 3 note chord on a single hand don't really make much difference anyways, so i went with 3, the jacks at this bpm should be easily playable as it is only a 2 note jack i dont get it where you did refer those note

Imma just explain briefly, the note count increases with the vocal strength here, thus i increased the note count gradually here, if that's what you are asking, sorry if my previous explanation was answering something else (lol)

01:41:652 - remove, or reduce For vocals

01:43:527 - until here, there was too much chords I think the chords are fine unless they really hinder playability/readability here -


from my mod

[SB note]

why you need to add exact hitsound BGM on SB? you know it's just a waste

unsnapped sb note
00:50:654 -




[Marathon]

00:41:779 (41779|6,41904|4,42029|5) - what those LN refer to?
01:00:402 - i dont get this rhythm seriously
01:01:402 - ^

01:12:027 to 01:26:027 - ok i can say here this quality pattern are not so good honestly. the pattern looks no creative at all i have to give you 2 option : remap all or remove overnote and re-arrange

Well damn i'm not creative!
I would like to see someone's map that's like this
hold on, i think i would like to request 20 similar maps that has similar mapping styles to this

Well, if you can dish them out, that's cool

But remember that i go for simplicity, in which uses simple patterns over and over again hoping to have players enjoy my maps (that has the intention of letting them have fun)!

_S u w a k o_ wrote:

quick sv look.. not pattern mod

sorry my something is hurted now but i doing it because of some reason and talked

00:04:279 - 00:04:404 - isn't it 1/6? wocao walao, fixed

00:39:966 - better to start x0.9 from here. try to test it errrrr i don't really think it makes a difference, i'd rather have the 0.9 end on the last note here so that the 0.9x SV won't trick players into pressing to late on 00:40:029 (40029|4,40029|2) - ( I seriously don't think it'll make a difference still though )

it's way easier to catch timing and recognize that this is 1/4.. 0.9 start from 00:40:029 - here is something like 1/8 or 1/12 but it is 1/8 ;_;

00:55:404 - 00:55:529 - i dont think you should keep same distance sv form compared to others even the pattern's beatsnap is different. Hmm true, removed all the SVs there, was kinda debating on if i should remove this previously due to the snap change from flrn's chart

try catch sv to 1/8 beatsnap distance. current 1/12 svs are spoil acc since sv/pattern beatsnap is different.

00:55:945 - 00:55:987 - better to be 1/8 beatsnap sv here too imo. 1/12 0.5 1.5 is something weak to emphasize ^

00:56:027 - 120? maybe unnecessary.. change to x1.0 idk why kami had this point here will poke kami about this

00:56:279 - 01:12:029 - what do you want to catch sound here?

vocal? or instrument? i think neither? this part is ambiguous for me.. better to handle here further imo

meaning, you should delete some notes if you want to catch vocal, but you should add more if you want to catch instruement I'm mapping for both at the same time, i map the vocals whenever the vocals have 1/4 swing beats and instruments when the vocals doesn't, basically emphasizing the vocals whilst mapping the instruments

01:19:027 - 01:19:902 - lmao 1.9 0.1 lolol seriously?

i don't think it's necessary. actually 1.5 0.5 sv form is enough to emphasize. 1.9 0.1 is tooo op to keep acc

or change 1.5 0.5 > 1.6 0.4 > 1.7 0.3? I'm using the idea of a more jagged/sharp SV here so i'm using high values like this, don't think imma use softer SVs ;_;

01:20:027 - 01:20:402 - i can't get idea why u put x1.15 instead bumps sv.. dubstep sounds are still continue until 01:20:402 01:20:027 (80027|4,80027|2,80152|1,80152|5,80277|5,80277|1,80402|0,80402|6,80527|5,80527|1) - I'm mapping to the vocals here, in which i don't think im going to use jagged/sharp SVs and instead use 1.15 then 1.30 to map to the synths in the music

01:20:527 - change to 1.1 or 1.2. way too fast to catch acc 01:21:027 - here well.... ok, i think this is the limit of the nerf lmao

01:27:527 - 01:28:027 - better to change 1.5 to 1.3 about here. or change 0.7 to 0.5 well, mathematically, it doesn't add up to 2.0, but i want to have it at a faster SV here so as to emphasize the chorus when it hits it, eeeh imma nerf to 0.6 anyways ;_;

because current sv form is way faster than x1.0.. in other words, it's hard to catch acc than 0.5 1.5

01:33:277 (93277|6,93402|4,93464|5,93527|6) - make consistency here..

i think your below LNs were fellow vocal at first. this is something inb4 while playing Ye it is following the pitch change of the vocals

01:41:277 (101277|5,101402|6,101464|5,101527|4) - ^ ^

[ S a k u r a ] wrote:

ExPew means that it is uneccessary to put the same sound that is already in the music mp3 in the storyboard hitsound, this makes the music and the hitsound overlaps and it sounds the same

Okay let me break this down

This is my interpretation : Sorry if i'm wrong, i'm retarded anyways

Storyboarded hitsounds shouldn't blend with the mp3 cause it doesn't do anything
Not really going to stand on either side of this argument but this is what happened

I had a note there which has this hitsound

I removed it cause it is stupid to play cause idk where to put it except removing it

I removed it, then lordraika added it back

Basically what happened, will leave to raika to decide if it stays, tbh, after thinking for a bit, i don't think there's a need for it lmao

ExPew wrote:

-Kamikaze- wrote:

Sakura, I don't really understand why is that a problem. It sounds good, it doesn't affect playability, it doesn't cause any unrankable problems, so why? Is making song sound a little bit diffrent with sb really that bad? In BMS they do it all the time just to be able to overmap (like with imperishable night, mania version is also overmapped and by A LOT), but here that's not the case. Mind explaining in detail?
Also I agree, I think that Zenx's part is much better than mine, but uh, nothing I can do

every BMS song has own their keysounds. comparing to Imperishable Night 2006, yes indeed that map is overmapped with all those chords in it, but those keysounds are related BGM and sound like the original song from BMS. Unlike the notes in Z3nx's part of Tokio Funka , placing note at somewhere with a sound that does not requires such amount of notes and add hitsound to make it sounds like there was sound in the original music.

Ok let me break this down again

Reading off that makes me think that every BMS converts are rankable cause they have hitsounds/keysounds justified for every note
But hey! Did you know that some BMS have ridiculous chords on sounds that are very soft?
Citing an example https://osu.ppy.sh/b/241978 and yes it's a BMS convert, but it has cray cray chords ( cray = crazy if you don't know my language )

There's no such thing as overchording or overnoting, well damn if there is please put in the ranking criteria cause i'm confused lmao!

[ S a k u r a ] wrote:

Mapping in mania is trying to show the original rhythm and the unique part of the sound instead of creating your own. Also the hitsounds are overused in the map, such amount of hitsounds will increase the file size of the map by a lot, this is unnecessary when the map is not keysounded map and the hitsounds are overlap with the original mp3 which can not be heard, we should try our best to make the file size as small as possible. If you think I am not good enough for BAT or checking this map, feel free to look for the next one. No need to waste your time with a BAT that you don't think will go well with your map.

Mapping in mania is trying to show the original rhythm and the unique part of the sound instead of creating your own.
Woa! is that the definition of mapping in mania!? Oh boy!
Also the hitsounds are overused in the map
I don't think you really can set a point of using the apt amount hitsounds
such amount of hitsounds will increase the file size of the map by a lot
we should try our best to make the file size as small as possible
Honestly i think this is true, but with the file size reduction, i can't really do anything about it, i'll leave to lordraika for the reduction of file size



ohi kami update
btw, check the 2nd redline, idk if it should actually exist lmao
http://puu.sh/fgXsZ/9b8c770b2c.osu

"ok firstly, you said sakura is right, means that you agree that it's uncomfortable:

you agree that a (123) chord is uncomfortable

I'm sorry but i can't really understand, 123 feels great to press down ( maybe it's just me, idk )"

feels fine to me but then i guess i don't have the authority to judge if its good or not o_o

Z3nx wrote:

00:56:027 - 120? maybe unnecessary.. change to x1.0 idk why kami had this point here will poke kami about this

Lol me/we forgot to delete it after fixing timing from calibreman's mod, fixed

Updated, waiting for Raika's recheck
EDIT: I saw some pepole talking about some Funka drama. This is not a drama, this is a disussion and I'm trying hard to keep it that way, go somewhere else :V

WOW I luv this

i mean this song

??????????????

_S u w a k o_ wrote:

??????????????

shit, the 120 bpm point messed everything up :V
I'll fix soon Done

Pattern for song

Not song for pattern

idk why you only think Pattern for song,Not song for pattern?
just you do this theory
why you kill another view,song for pattern?
osumania is osumania,not BMS,o2jam
i think the good point of mania is mania accept all mapping style:keys,patterns and opinions
please don't kill this map,both styles are good both

Can you tell me who makes the song for pattern?
xi ? sakuzyo ? wa. ? SHIKI ? ETIA. ?
If you can't change the song,you should use your patterns to follow the music.
It is really a ridiculous logic. You had better say it after think twice.
Any mapper should do it,if you can't do it,go to be unrank mapper.

shionelove wrote:

idk why you only think Pattern for song,Not song for pattern?
just you do this theory
why you kill another view,song for pattern?
osumania is osumania,not BMS,o2jam
i think the good point of mania is mania accept all mapping style:keys,patterns and opinions
please don't kill this map,both styles are good both

According to what u said

Song for pattern? why not u just go make a Song for mapping

such awesome mapping attitude

Making a song for a map what ._.

Although, I think we're gauging quite off topic here. This drama is unneeded and I'm sure all Kami, or anyone wants, is to just get this rebubbled and fix all the issues as soon as possible.

Wow, I've been out for few hours and this happens, I would appreciate if you would argue somewhere else instead of giving me false hope that I've recieved another mod/hs fix :V

-Kamikaze- wrote:

mod/hs fix :V

if only i could

but you guys are just 2op4me2mod

I still luv u m8

-Kamikaze- wrote:

I myself am not giving up just yet.

Don't you ever give up on this.

map to the feel B)

good luck kami~

Good luck to all of you. Please get this ranked. I really enjoy the feel of the map and I love the patterns and style of Z3nx, chords and all. I think it deserves to be ranked.

So best wishes for finding people to finish mods/checks!

-Kamikaze- wrote:

oh pls so romancing :U

this map is ready for rank~!
goodluck kami, and the others xD
/shoot kd/

RIP my bubble dont give up now

gogo makimaki

Blocko wrote:

-Kamikaze- wrote:

I myself am not giving up just yet.

Don't you ever give up on this.

rank pls it's the only 5 star 7k map i can pass :v

Wow, you guys are awesome! Thank you!
N E V E R G I V E U P

Had another IRC mod with ExPew, also Raika rechecked hitsounds.
Updated

Still waiting

just a simple check atm

[SB notes]

00:12:404 - LR_LR_LR_Drum EDge.wav@100% what is this

00:50:198 - LR3_AGG C6.wav@28% unsnapped 00:50:195 -

00:50:640 - LR3_AGG C6.wav@28% unsnapped 00:50:654 -

00:55:208 - LR_Drum Barrel Finish.wav@33% unsnapped 00:55:195 -


[testplay]




played with 0% volume and i felt some chord are a little overchorded xd



@notice: 03:22:029 - only this pattern boost the rating about 0.33

Gonna ask Raika about those SB notes and rest of crew about stuff, thanks!
day 15, still waiting for Loctav
nice play btw
EIDT: SB notes fixed

For reference: my mod uses 1,2,3,4,5,6,7. Might be confusing, but I do not like counting from 0 - even if the timestamps do.

00:08:029 (8029|2) - would move this to 3 for consistency with 00:06:029 (6029|2)
00:08:779 - missing note. Add one to 2 for consistency with 00:06:779 (6779|1)
00:09:904 (9904|2) - this doesnt warrant a jack. Move this to 2. Also it stands out way too much. Let's not strike too much at the beginning already.
00:33:279 (33279|0,33404|1,33654|2,33779|1,33904|0) - I hope you are trying to follow the vocals here, because these doesn't. It should rather be like this: http://puu.sh/gBx2I/766fb8da41.jpg
00:34:029 (34029|2,34154|0,34279|2,34404|1,34654|0,34779|2,34904|0) - same goes for this. Try that: http://puu.sh/gBx5S/e1d68d9228.jpg
00:40:435 (40435|0,40497|5,40497|2) - you are overcomplicating things here. I highly doubt this is snapped like you snapped it. This should be snapped with 1/8 (starting at 00:40:466)
00:41:029 (41029|4,41029|0,41029|2) - same for this. Put 1/8 and move it upwards. It's not as awkwardly mapped as you want it to be.
00:43:966 (43966|2) - this is also 1/8.
00:44:904 (44904|3,44966|4) - same.
00:48:466 (48466|2) - ^ I won't point this out anymore.
00:49:029 - this section is totally retarded. Whats with this fricken noise that throws me totally off. Honestly, even if it exists and stuff, I would not place notes on them (00:49:372 (49372|0) - ). They far most annoying sound you can place notes on (as they are totally arhythmic - and you keysounding this noise is not helping it at all)
01:19:029 - why are there inconsistent? There is no apparent reason for that. Please make them consistently going from 0,5 to 1,5 - else it's messy and needlessly different. I can not figure any apparent reason why you would change the way it speeds up, as the noise stays exactly the same, as does the intensity. The speedup self is warranted, but not it's inconistent way to change within this pattern.
01:41:529 (101529|4) - for the sake of playability, I would keep this hold out of this stutter pattern. Replace with a simple note would do the trick sufficiently.
01:53:279 (113279|1,113404|1,113529|1) - honestly, I would like to see jackhammers avoided if not neccessarily needed. They should stay outstanding or at least frequently happening and be expectable. This one stands out, as it is neither involved with the duplets at the beginning (which were consequently appearing across that section) neither are they involved into that stutter pattern. I would rater go with a simple 1,2,1 pattern.
02:07:029 - Actually, this is not correctly snapped here,either. Try this: http://puu.sh/gBzP0/10a4ff0c7c.jpg
02:10:029 (130029|1,130154|2,130279|3,130404|4,130529|5,130654|6,130779|4,130904|3,131029|2) - No. The holds are too long and 02:10:529 (130529|5,130654|6) - plays terrible. Like seriously terrible. This is a frequently trash pattern you find in o2jam, as the holds are totally not fitting the actual synthesizer organ you want to follow here. They end correctly. The stuttering isnt helping their playability at all - and doesn't make them more correct.
02:59:904 (179904|5) - you ran out of space. The previous pattern's holds are also not following the music properly. It's a design flaw that should be fixed by readjusting the slider lengths.
03:22:029 (202029|6,202154|5,202279|4,202404|3,202404|6,202529|5,202654|4) - you really shouldn't go with this kind of stair release and stair hit stuff if it is not warranted by the music. Moreover, the holds are too long and are plain wrong. Especially 03:22:404 (202404|3) plays iffy, since it reaches into the follow-up pattern starting on 1
04:02:029 (242029|1) - this is too long. should end on white downbeat before.
04:22:029 (262029|4,262029|2) - I would move this to 1 and 7, especially to mark the new pattern more.
04:23:404 (263404|4,263529|3,263654|2,263779|4,263904|2,264029|6,264029|3,264029|0) - unncessary stuttering. You are using one effect for several noises, which is killing the "recognition" of this noise and its patterns. You should not use the same idea on multiple song sections or noises or remarkable spots. It's making them redundant. As player, you need to rely on the fact that this stutters, for example, only show up on the buzz sounds - and not somewhere else.
04:33:904 (273904|6,274029|6) - why is there a jack? there hasn't been a jack on similiar vocal patterns before.
04:47:529 (287529|3,287779|4,288029|2,288279|6,288529|1,288779|5) - aaaaaaa what. I mean, 04:47:529 (287529|3,287779|4,288029|2,288779|5) - are working, but 04:48:529 (288529|1) - is reaching into the next pattern again. 04:49:029 (289029|0) - is ending waaay too late. 04:48:279 (288279|6) - appeas totally unrelated to the pattern it started in. 04:48:279 (288279|6,289029|0) - should conclude with the start of 04:49:529 (289529|1) - (new pattern)
04:50:529 (290529|4,290779|3,291029|1) - if you compare this "pattern end" with the previous mentioned notes, this is way better.
04:53:029 (293029|4,293154|3,293279|2,293404|1) - I would rather go with short holds, they do the trick better and are not wrongly mapped and snapped. Especially the release point of 04:53:404 (293404|1) - feels wrong and plays iffy due to 04:53:529 (293529|0) - being waaay longer
05:01:029 (301029|6,301154|5,301279|4,301404|3) - ^
05:35:154 - there is no reason in the music to make this stutter (like the buzz sound in previous parts). And due to it being not consistently being 1/4 or whatever, but being basically triplets, this is very awful to read. Remove the speedchanges entirely.


All in all, this maps lacks heavily in consistency. As it is mapped good itself in its specific patterns, it is not really paying much attention to the entire map. I know this is a collab, but still a map must be one unit in itself. Many stuff is inconsistently made, same ideas have been reused across multiple remarkable spots - and also odd, antique and plain wrong techniques have been used to make this map "more tricky" or "exciting", whereas the way it is made it turns out to be sorta random. I know it is difficult to pay attention to "what has been done before" when mapping sections, but this map makes me feel like you entirely forgot about what you did in the previous sections or planned for the future sections when mapping specific patterns. It lacks of planning ahead and creating consistency from behind. As I not doubt the technical way it is made by itself, I doubt the coherence of this map in itself. It is too squishy, too arbitrary, too "mapping blindfolded". Do not force maps to be interesting. Invent unique patterns of specific remarkable spots, use these patterns, make people expect them. Do not make the maps be like you have to learn them by heart by the simple learning of pattern followances. The map or the song should be able to tell you and make you recall of "what comes now" - and this is missing here.
This map is not ready yet, by far. I left out a lot of things.

And please revise your snapping - especially in the first half.

Sorry if this sounds more harsh than I want.

Loctav wrote:

For reference: my mod uses 1,2,3,4,5,6,7. Might be confusing, but I do not like counting from 0 - even if the timestamps do.

01:53:279 (113279|1,113404|1,113529|1) - honestly, I would like to see jackhammers avoided if not neccessarily needed. They should stay outstanding or at least frequently happening and be expectable. This one stands out, as it is neither involved with the duplets at the beginning (which were consequently appearing across that section) neither are they involved into that stutter pattern. I would rater go with a simple 1,2,1 pattern. // 123, done

02:07:029 - Actually, this is not correctly snapped here,either. Try this: http://puu.sh/gBzP0/10a4ff0c7c.jpg

02:10:029 (130029|1,130154|2,130279|3,130404|4,130529|5,130654|6,130779|4,130904|3,131029|2) - No. The holds are too long and 02:10:529 (130529|5,130654|6) - plays terrible. Like seriously terrible. This is a frequently trash pattern you find in o2jam, as the holds are totally not fitting the actual synthesizer organ you want to follow here. They end correctly. The stuttering isnt helping their playability at all - and doesn't make them more correct. // ok got it..

02:59:904 (179904|5) - you ran out of space. The previous pattern's holds are also not following the music properly. It's a design flaw that should be fixed by readjusting the slider lengths. // ok

03:22:029 (202029|6,202154|5,202279|4,202404|3,202404|6,202529|5,202654|4) - you really shouldn't go with this kind of stair release and stair hit stuff if it is not warranted by the music. Moreover, the holds are too long and are plain wrong. Especially 03:22:404 (202404|3) plays iffy, since it reaches into the follow-up pattern starting on 1 // looks like i will re-do all of those LNs for sure.. thanks for noticing


All in all, this maps lacks heavily in consistency. As it is mapped good itself in its specific patterns, it is not really paying much attention to the entire map. I know this is a collab, but still a map must be one unit in itself. Many stuff is inconsistently made, same ideas have been reused across multiple remarkable spots - and also odd, antique and plain wrong techniques have been used to make this map "more tricky" or "exciting", whereas the way it is made it turns out to be sorta random. I know it is difficult to pay attention to "what has been done before" when mapping sections, but this map makes me feel like you entirely forgot about what you did in the previous sections or planned for the future sections when mapping specific patterns. It lacks of planning ahead and creating consistency from behind. As I not doubt the technical way it is made by itself, I doubt the coherence of this map in itself. It is too squishy, too arbitrary, too "mapping blindfolded". Do not force maps to be interesting. Invent unique patterns of specific remarkable spots, use these patterns, make people expect them. Do not make the maps be like you have to learn them by heart by the simple learning of pattern followances. The map or the song should be able to tell you and make you recall of "what comes now" - and this is missing here.
This map is not ready yet, by far. I left out a lot of things.

And please revise your snapping - especially in the first half.

Sorry if this sounds more harsh than I want.

all accepted, thank you so much, yes i realize my part is really far from my current mapping style, since i mapped this long time ago.. i will try to improve my part asap...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B--BbW ... sp=sharing update

Loctav wrote:

For reference: my mod uses 1,2,3,4,5,6,7. Might be confusing, but I do not like counting from 0 - even if the timestamps do.


04:02:029 (242029|1) - this is too long. should end on white downbeat before. Atually the rattle sound I'm making is not shorter. It's longer by 1/2, adjusted it.
04:22:029 (262029|4,262029|2) - I would move this to 1 and 7, especially to mark the new pattern more. And it's for consistency with 04:20:029 (260029|0,260029|6) - I like that.
04:23:404 (263404|4,263529|3,263654|2,263779|4,263904|2,264029|6,264029|3,264029|0) - unncessary stuttering. You are using one effect for several noises, which is killing the "recognition" of this noise and its patterns. You should not use the same idea on multiple song sections or noises or remarkable spots. It's making them redundant. As player, you need to rely on the fact that this stutters, for example, only show up on the buzz sounds - and not somewhere else. If you meant hitsounds, I redid them a little, if you meant pattern, it's fine. If you meant SV, I'll nerf it down a notch when the game fucking allows me

l m f a oreported this to technical subforum already
04:33:904 (273904|6,274029|6) - why is there a jack? there hasn't been a jack on similiar vocal patterns before. idk how it got there :O
04:47:529 (287529|3,287779|4,288029|2,288279|6,288529|1,288779|5) - aaaaaaa what. I mean, 04:47:529 (287529|3,287779|4,288029|2,288779|5) - are working, but 04:48:529 (288529|1) - is reaching into the next pattern again. 04:49:029 (289029|0) - is ending waaay too late. 04:48:279 (288279|6) - appeas totally unrelated to the pattern it started in. 04:48:279 (288279|6,289029|0) - should conclude with the start of 04:49:529 (289529|1) - (new pattern) Welp at the time I kinda went blank on ideas and just made this shit randomly, I'll adjust it with stuff that you pointed out
04:50:529 (290529|4,290779|3,291029|1) - if you compare this "pattern end" with the previous mentioned notes, this is way better.
04:53:029 (293029|4,293154|3,293279|2,293404|1) - I would rather go with short holds, they do the trick better and are not wrongly mapped and snapped. Especially the release point of 04:53:404 (293404|1) - feels wrong and plays iffy due to 04:53:529 (293529|0) - being waaay longer That was my pain tbh, 1/4 felt a little too short and hard as fk to acc, but you're right, it does create a bit of awkwardness, changed
05:01:029 (301029|6,301154|5,301279|4,301404|3) - ^ ^
05:35:154 - there is no reason in the music to make this stutter (like the buzz sound in previous parts). And due to it being not consistently being 1/4 or whatever, but being basically triplets, this is very awful to read. Remove the speedchanges entirely. I'm actually really against this, because I think that emphasize of drums being very strong and that part being map's "finisher" feels just right with harsh SV jumps. But I understand that it's maybe too harsh on players, so I'm currently gathering feedback from players. If they say it's uncomfortable, then I'll throw it away, if not, I'll nerf it a notch.


All in all, this maps lacks heavily in consistency. As it is mapped good itself in its specific patterns, it is not really paying much attention to the entire map. I know this is a collab, but still a map must be one unit in itself. Many stuff is inconsistently made, same ideas have been reused across multiple remarkable spots - and also odd, antique and plain wrong techniques have been used to make this map "more tricky" or "exciting", whereas the way it is made it turns out to be sorta random. I know it is difficult to pay attention to "what has been done before" when mapping sections, but this map makes me feel like you entirely forgot about what you did in the previous sections or planned for the future sections when mapping specific patterns. It lacks of planning ahead and creating consistency from behind. As I not doubt the technical way it is made by itself, I doubt the coherence of this map in itself. It is too squishy, too arbitrary, too "mapping blindfolded". Do not force maps to be interesting. Invent unique patterns of specific remarkable spots, use these patterns, make people expect them. Do not make the maps be like you have to learn them by heart by the simple learning of pattern followances. The map or the song should be able to tell you and make you recall of "what comes now" - and this is missing here.
This map is not ready yet, by far. I left out a lot of things.

And please revise your snapping - especially in the first half.

Sorry if this sounds more harsh than I want.

It sounds exactly like I wanted it to be. Harsh, but not offending. I honestly don't know why pepole tend to dislike or throw shit at person who mods like this, wake the fuck up, if your map sucks someone has to make you realize it. Thank you.
But I think that you misunderstood some things about inconsistency. I agree, it is inconsistent across whole map, but that's neither forced nor "blindfolded". It's just the fact that we mapped our sections independently, with our own ideas, without seeing eachother's parts and thus it turned out like this. From my standpoint it makes the map more unique, being a kind of showcase of our individual styles. It may look forced, but trust me, it isn't. In my opinion it's 200x better than the generic tv size animu shit that we're flooded with. Players are also very fond with this map (as you can see on the last 2-3 pages), so I would really love for it to stay like that. After all players are our biggest concern when creating a map.
Thank you a whole lot for this, waiting for Zenx's response, in the meantime updated

After talk with Syvleon I deided to nerf end SV by a lot, it's almost unnoticable now
Also Usagi did some SV fixes on his part
Updated

Loctav wrote:

For reference: my mod uses 1,2,3,4,5,6,7. Might be confusing, but I do not like counting from 0 - even if the timestamps do.
I'm taking over zenny's part and checking the mod for him:

00:08:029 (8029|2) - would move this to 3 for consistency with 00:06:029 (6029|2) Fixed
00:08:779 - missing note. Add one to 2 for consistency with 00:06:779 (6779|1) Nope, nothing here. In fact, there is a 1/8 roll (maybe even 1/6) that happens 1/4 beat after the place you have just mentioned, but it would be awkward to put that in here
00:09:904 (9904|2) - this doesnt warrant a jack. Move this to 2. Also it stands out way too much. Let's not strike too much at the beginning already. Does not stand out too much in my opinion. From a perspective of a person who plays a lot of ranked maps in general, this is pretty comfortable to play (compared to some of the actual unwarranted jacks in some maps) and does fit the music pretty well
00:33:279 (33279|0,33404|1,33654|2,33779|1,33904|0) - I hope you are trying to follow the vocals here, because these doesn't. It should rather be like this: http://puu.sh/gBx2I/766fb8da41.jpg I'm pretty sure he's following the drums here, but put it in an ln type fashion. I remapped this part a bit (long notes taken out, some other patterns added)
00:34:029 (34029|2,34154|0,34279|2,34404|1,34654|0,34779|2,34904|0) - same goes for this. Try that: http://puu.sh/gBx5S/e1d68d9228.jpg See above
00:40:435 (40435|0,40497|5,40497|2) - you are overcomplicating things here. I highly doubt this is snapped like you snapped it. This should be snapped with 1/8 (starting at 00:40:466) Listened to it at 25%, the place that you have pointed out is too late to be the correct snap. I believe the snap problems here were corrected by fullerene before, and I'm willing to keep it this way unless there are further complications.
00:41:029 (41029|4,41029|0,41029|2) - same for this. Put 1/8 and move it upwards. It's not as awkwardly mapped as you want it to be. Listening it at 25%, I think the current snap is correct
00:43:966 (43966|2) - this is also 1/8. Current snap is correct (It does sound like 1/8 when played at full speed, but I think that we should follow the 'accurate' snaps that i can hear at a slowed down playback (and also referencing the sound waves in other sound editor programs)
00:44:904 (44904|3,44966|4) - same. This is also correct
00:48:466 (48466|2) - ^ I won't point this out anymore. Okay this one I'm actually not sure either. You might be correct on this one, but will need someone to check this
00:49:029 - this section is totally retarded. Whats with this fricken noise that throws me totally off. Honestly, even if it exists and stuff, I would not place notes on them (00:49:372 (49372|0) - ). They far most annoying sound you can place notes on (as they are totally arhythmic - and you keysounding this noise is not helping it at all) Writing this from a player's perspective: I honestly haven't noticed it like you have said (of it throwing me totally off). I'm not sure if you have done the actual playtesting of this, but it hasn't been an issue at all. Also, you pointed out that these noises have been arhythmic; in fact, this WHOLE section is generally arhythmic (it's what I'd call drunken music, cuz all the drum beats and parts aren't in such articulate snaps). This is completely justifiable
01:19:029 - why are there inconsistent? There is no apparent reason for that. Please make them consistently going from 0,5 to 1,5 - else it's messy and needlessly different. I can not figure any apparent reason why you would change the way it speeds up, as the noise stays exactly the same, as does the intensity. The speedup self is warranted, but not it's inconistent way to change within this pattern. I agree. Fixed the speed changes here to be consistent at 0.5x to 1.5x. In addition, reduced the intensity of speedup so that it is more sightreadable (from 1 -> 1.15 -> 1.3 to 1 -> 1.1 -> 1.2)
01:41:529 (101529|4) - for the sake of playability, I would keep this hold out of this stutter pattern. Replace with a simple note would do the trick sufficiently. Fixed

Thanks for the mod, I'm sorry that I rejected most of the modding (especially the points about snaps, cuz I do think that the current snaps are mostly right.

Update (pastebin): Here

@Kami: I left out the hitsounds on the places that I have remapped (cuz I wasn't sure what to use). 00:33:029 - to 00:35:029 - is the only place where the hitsounds were omitted when I remapped it, so you should have a look before uploading

Will update tomorrow, kinda went lazy today a
@chinchin Raika has been handling hitsounding matters ever since it was hitsounded so I'll poke him after I update
@Loctav I was discussing snap "issues" with fullerene and zenx and the thing is, timing is 120bpm flat for vocals and it's not stable for rest. Zenx mapped both, so we decided to use simpler timing, thus we had to use weird snappings. Jinjin also explained how it works himself. I can get fullerene to explain in further in detail if needed.

Hi there, this is my first time, so I have about 4% knowledge of what I'm doing. Please bare with me, I'm still learning things because i'm dumdum

Song quality seems quite low. Is it to facilitate the hitsounds?

01:12:082 to 01:25:029, I notice the 3 key LN on the right is really repetitive. Nothing wrong there, it's just that there could be room to produce something better than good.

01:28:404 to 01:30:779, I feel it's unnecessary to have a 5 key chord.Follow 01:31:200, less keys even with the same sound

01:56:029,This is the part where I actually expected SVs. The wubs could do with some of that (calculating them is not what I do best, try getting help from real modders, not me)

03:46:591 to 04:00:09 place notes on 1/8th

04:23:154, there could be a note there, drum sound starts here. I think

Also, mapping over the vocals a lot isn't really good. Once in a while is alright, but don't overdo it.

That's all I can think of for now.

Cryolien wrote:

Hi there, this is my first time, so I have about 4% knowledge of what I'm doing. Please bare with me, I'm still learning things because i'm dumdum

Song quality seems quite low. Is it to facilitate the hitsounds? Well to be honest, I just couldn't find a decent mp3 for it. If you have a better one, please send me!

03:46:591 to 04:00:09 place notes on 1/8th I think I know what you mean, drums are grace-like here. But I want to keep things simpler since this is a calmer part, thus no change.

04:23:154, there could be a note there, drum sound starts here. I think I think this is still one drum and it only appears to be a grace (due to sound being slightly longer), however this suggestion made me realize that there's a nice synth I'm not mapping, so I shortened 04:00:029 (240029|3) - by 1/1, moved notes on 04:02:029 - from 3/5 to 1/7 and added LNs on 04:01:654 - & 04:01:779 - & 04:01:904 -

Also, mapping over the vocals a lot isn't really good. Once in a while is alright, but don't overdo it. Actually (regarding my part) vocals are following instruments I'm mapping, so it may appear as vocal mapping while it's not lol

That's all I can think of for now.

Thanks a lot man!

Tried to make some SV for the dubstep part that Cryo mentioned, also decided to beef up SV because it was almost non-existent.
Updated