winber1 wrote:

there are no pros in this game

we all suck

it is a question of who sucks the most

There are no pros in osu! for completely different reasons.

no money in osu. inb4 heppyticks stream and www having his face on some random mouse producer page

RaneFire wrote:

Bare in mind that there are SO FEW actual AR10 maps. This means that they are only AR8/9 maps with mods, which are mapped appropriately for THAT AR regarding readability. When you put HR on, it means that there will always be less interfering objects.

So AR is a difficulty slider.

It's not more difficult once you learn how to read and comprehend it. It might look more difficult to some people, but that's because they don't know how to read it. It's really not that difficult, you just have to look at the flow of the map as the objects appear and follow the flow while tapping to the rhythm. The problem most people have is they react too quickly to the objects and hit everything too early. This doesn't make higher AR easier in my opinion, it just makes it easier to learn. Lower AR is more difficult to master but once you do it should be easier.

If you practice playing at any AR, you'll eventually be able to read that AR. People who can only read ar10 probably only play ar10. Most people don't practice low AR anymore, that's why a lot of people can't play it.

-Soba- wrote:

If you practice playing at any AR, you'll eventually be able to read that AR. People who can only read ar10 probably only play ar10. Most people don't practice low AR anymore, that's why a lot of people can't play it.

Agreed. I find lower AR easier to react to but I guess it's not the same for everyone. It is possible to play any song at any AR as long as you practice it enough.

As much as I desire to learn AR 10 I still refuse to and tell my self it's a useless skill because I can't play stuff like big black image material 7th expansion I'm far from fast enough

Read things above AR9. There's no secret, you just have to do it until you're good at it. I started by DTing low-star AR8s.

Cherry Blossom wrote:

Teach me how to read AR>9, i can't read anything above AR9.
Any tips ? ;w;

Idk, the way I learned was HRing AR8-9 stuff I could play easily no mod until I could do it. I have horrendous reaction time, but it still worked for me - though it tooks hundreds of plays.

Blueprint wrote:

As much as I desire to learn AR 10 I still refuse to and tell my self it's a useless skill because I can't play stuff like big black image material 7th expansion I'm far from fast enough

This. Learning to read ar10 is useless if you can't even play the songs that are going to be ar10, lol. It's like me and 10.3; a huge majority of ar9 maps I have are still way too hard for me with dt.

Rewben2 wrote:

Blueprint wrote:

As much as I desire to learn AR 10 I still refuse to and tell my self it's a useless skill because I can't play stuff like big black image material 7th expansion I'm far from fast enough

This. Learning to read ar10 is useless if you can't even play the songs that are going to be ar10, lol. It's like me and 10.3; a huge majority of ar9 maps I have are still way too hard for me with dt.

Same goes for me. 10.3 feels pretty overwhelming compared to AR10 as example. I don't even get how people manage it to react/read properly.

Rewben2 wrote:

It's like me and 10.3; a huge majority of ar9 maps I have are still way too hard for me with dt.

Similar reasoning here. There's only about 5-10 AR9 maps out of everything, that I actually have the speed for DT.

But AR10 is different, it's Hard Rock for starters (on 95% of the maps you will play with AR10), which doesn't modify the speed of the song, just its difficulty settings, which includes more than just AR. You'll also never learn to read it unless you start playing it, but you need decent accuracy and aiming skills first, which will then be further developed by Hard Rock. In that sense, it is not useless, since it picks up where nomod leaves off.

NarrillNezzurh wrote:

RaneFire wrote:

Bare in mind that there are SO FEW actual AR10 maps. This means that they are only AR8/9 maps with mods, which are mapped appropriately for THAT AR regarding readability. When you put HR on, it means that there will always be less interfering objects.

So AR is a difficulty slider.

You do realise by saying this, it means that AR increasing from 8/9 to 10 is a difficulty reduction in terms of reading interfering objects.

A scenario in which this applies:
- Player starts playing osu! - can read up to AR6.
- Learns AR7, likes AR7 because it's comfortable to read vs his reaction speed.
- Learns AR8, now likes AR8 because it's comfortable to read vs his reaction speed. AR6 starts to look like unnecessarily long delays since he can pay attention to each note faster and starts having to read more notes than needed.
- Learns AR9, now likes AR9 because it's comfortable to read vs his reaction speed. AR7 starts to feel slow too now (same reason).
- AR10 however, teeters on the line of reading and reaction speed, and seems impossible to learn at first. However, once you get faster at processing, that boundary shifts and AR10 falls within the comfort zone. AR10 is now comfortable to read vs his reaction speed, BUT because it's so proportionally close to that line of reaction speed, everything (AR9,8,7) starts to look slow. i.e. the effective difference between AR10 and AR9 is ~3 times greater than AR9 is to AR8.

The end result is our perception of the game changes as we improve, and low AR reading needs to be retained through practicing it, since the variations between reading and reaction speed increase, which only really becomes a problem if you stop playing it completely, because you only remember what it was like when you were learning the AR (the fastest you could play). It's an odd thing to classify as a difficulty, since it only applies to those who have yet to learn higher AR's. There is always an upper limit though.

Edit: The difficulty increases in both directions, with your favourite and most comfortable current AR representing "zero" on the scale, since that's where your reading and reaction speeds are closest to equal. As you go down the scale, reactions are too fast (hitting early), reading is too slow (recognise too many notes, patterns get more complicated to see and take longer to distinguish). As you go up, reactions are too slow (hitting late), reading is too fast (can't recognise enough notes at once to string together a pattern in your mind, or even a line).

RaneFire wrote:

NarrillNezzurh wrote:

So AR is a difficulty slider.

You do realise by saying this, it means that AR increasing from 8/9 to 10 is a difficulty reduction in terms of reading interfering objects.

I realize that you've said that.

If AR10 on a map originally mapped to AR9 is easier to read because you're adding space to a map that was designed to make use of less space, then maps designed for AR10 have, as a rule, less space than AR9 maps when the two are read at the same AR. In other words, AR10 maps are universally more dense than AR9 maps without respect to AR, and therefore generally more difficult. This link between intended AR and object density paints AR as little more than a compensatory tool used by mappers and players alike to pull maps toward a central difficulty level, but it does so out of an implied necessity stemming from the inherent difficulty of the map.

Basically, the higher the AR the more difficult the map. Your words, not mine.

NarrillNezzurh wrote:

RaneFire wrote:

You do realise by saying this, it means that AR increasing from 8/9 to 10 is a difficulty reduction in terms of reading interfering objects.

I realize that you've said that.

If AR10 on a map originally mapped to AR9 is easier to read because you're adding space to a map that was designed to make use of less space, then maps designed for AR10 have, as a rule, less space than AR9 maps when the two are read at the same AR. In other words, AR10 maps are universally more dense than AR9 maps without respect to AR, and therefore generally more difficult. This link between intended AR and object density paints AR as little more than a compensatory tool used by mappers and players alike to pull maps toward a central difficulty level, but it does so out of an implied necessity stemming from the inherent difficulty of the map.

Basically, the higher the AR the more difficult the map. Your words, not mine.

Sure, I see the logic, but I refer to Hard Rock in the text above that as 95% of the cases where people play AR10. There are less than 20 ranked AR10 maps, far too few of the entire pool of maps that people actually play at AR10, and half of those 20 didn't even need to be AR10 either. Hard Rock is where most people play their AR10 and some take the time to find more unranked AR10 maps, but there are too few cases where it's use can be justified (hence unranked). For most players it is easier to access AR10 with HR, since maps where it's use is justified as the default setting would be way too difficult for many people. But they are difficult maps which use AR10, not difficult maps because they're AR10. The latter is the logic I see you applying and I don't agree. I think the map was already hard to begin with and AR10 is the appropriate AR for it, not because it makes the map more difficult. It makes it more readable... appropriate. The map is the difficulty increase.

I feel like explaining this can go on forever. If you don't get what I'm saying by now, I give up.

RaneFire wrote:

But they are difficult maps which use AR10, not difficult maps because they're AR10. The latter is the logic I see you applying and I don't agree.

That would be because I'm applying it facetiously. I don't believe mappers tend to use AR as a compensatory tool or that a map's AR tends to follow from its difficulty. Increasing AR simply doesn't reduce difficulty as a general trend given that only a very small subset of players can read it with the same efficiency as AR9. It's true that most AR10 maps are insanely difficult, but I would argue that those maps use AR10 because for the vast majority of players it's more difficult than if the map were AR9, not less.

Keep in mind, I'm not disputing what you may or may not actually think. I'm calling you out on your wording.

10.3 is overwhelming because there are few maps at or under 220 bpm and manageable. Youd have to be able to play 240 to 250 bpm really well before you could tackle 10.3 with high accuracy.

Reading through the ar9 "clutter" is quite a lot of fun, really.
I understand that if you never play ar9, it'll all feel like "Renard - Banned forever", but I would definitely recommend getting used to both ar9 and ar10 and not stick to only the high or the lower.

My trick for AR7 is to leave background dim at 50%. I don't know if it can help others though, since I've played like that for more than 2 years, but it can slow down your reading reaction ^^

The problem with me is that I can read 10.3 (on AR9 with DT) quite well. I can also move to alot of notes in time, the only problem is that I cant single or stream fast enough for most songs. The only one slow enough for me is Magic Girl.

DatPenguinTho wrote:

The problem with me is that I can read 10.3 (on AR9 with DT) quite well. I can also move to alot of notes in time, the only problem is that I cant single or stream fast enough for most songs. The only one slow enough for me is Magic Girl.

If your capabilities is hindered by a different ar, then you can't read that ar.

DatPenguinTho wrote:

The problem with me is that I can read 10.3 (on AR9 with DT) quite well. I can also move to alot of notes in time, the only problem is that I cant single or stream fast enough for most songs. The only one slow enough for me is Magic Girl.

seeing every note on screen != being able to read

just change the ar8 dt maps you can fc into ar9

AR10 streams are hard to read, the rest is easy
At least for me