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I call this BS, seriously!!!! (Ranking, mods vs accuracy)

posted
Total Posts
41
Rinkusan
22 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Rinkusan
Alrighty, I know what ya'll gonna say, but hear me out for a second here:

https://osu.ppy.sh/b/353600?m=0

This is the song in question, although it's really not all that important which song it was...

I S'ed this with 99.xx% without mods, so it took 5th spot in my top ranks weighted 81%,...

Now I S'ed it with 97.42% with hidden, it now takes number 36, weighted 17%...

I dropped over 300 global ranks because of this, although in my personal opinion, it was a rather large step forward, instead of backwards.....

I get that accuracy needs to be right up there to ensure really precise players are at the top, but this is seriously bullshit....

I just started playing harder maps with mods, and this is how the game thanks me, doesn't really make me wan't to use mods at all, If 2% accuracy make me lose pp even when getting full combo....
uzzi
786 posts
Joined September 2012
uzzi
97% and 99% is a massive difference bruv.
Neliel
174 posts
Joined March 2012
Neliel
Accuracy is one of the most important points in a rhythm game. 2% is a big difference.
ilipad
5 posts
Joined September 2013
ilipad
Yes its always been that way. They take the pp of the higher score even if the pp that the higher score is lower than the lower score. I'm on your side and still believe that they should take the score with the highest pp but it doesn't really bother me. I just press esc if I believe my current run is going yield me lower pp than my high score even if it beats it.
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Vuelo Eluko
accuracy is definitely overweighted especially top end. like how a 3.75 star song can give more PP if you SS it than a 4.41 star song gives if you 99% it. oh those 5x100's matter soooo much. But whatever, it's better than ppv1 even if it isn't satisfactory.
xasuma
The First Completionist
1,011 posts
Joined August 2013
xasuma
The developers are quite aware is this and are working to change it so this doesn't happen anymore. Nothing you say here will change that fact. So just walk along people.
Neliel
174 posts
Joined March 2012
Neliel
In my opinion you cant use the actual star rating. It isnt accurate. It doesnt include OD and AR. It only includes speed, aim and the spacing of circles.
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Vuelo Eluko

Deadlyneliel wrote:

In my opinion you cant use the actual star rating. It isnt accurate. It doesnt include OD and AR. It only includes speed, aim and the spacing of circles.
AR doesn't really matter anyway
OD only matters when the score is being calculated, but doesnt change the map itself
Neliel
174 posts
Joined March 2012
Neliel
So lets take a BM as example then.
Because it is so famous we take Big black.
You think BB with OD 10 is as hard as BB with OD 6 or 7?
I think star rating should include OD as it makes it harder being accurate.

Also thats the cause a map with star rating 3.xx gives sometimes more pp than a map with 4.xx.
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Vuelo Eluko

Deadlyneliel wrote:

So lets take a BM as example then.
Because it is so famous we take Big black.
You think BB with OD 10 is as hard as BB with OD 6 or 7?
I think star rating should include OD as it makes it harder being accurate.

Also thats the cause a map with star rating 3.xx gives sometimes more pp than a map with 4.xx.

the hardest part of big black is the slider jumps which are not only underrated by ppv2, but ignored in accuracy calculations by ppv2 anyway.
Neliel
174 posts
Joined March 2012
Neliel
Well it was just an example. Maybe a bad one. ;)
Zare
1,512 posts
Joined March 2012
Zare

Bassist Vinyl wrote:

the hardest part of big black is the slider jumps
lol
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Vuelo Eluko

Zare wrote:

Bassist Vinyl wrote:

the hardest part of big black is the slider jumps
lol
enlighten me. this is where i see 99.9% of big black clears go wrong. Be it the slider patterns right before the spinner preceding the repeat sliders, or the tornado jumps that have you going back and forth across sliders.
D e s
295 posts
Joined August 2013
D e s

Deadlyneliel wrote:

In my opinion you cant use the actual star rating. It isnt accurate. It doesnt include OD and AR. It only includes speed, aim and the spacing of circles.
Hm I think star rating include OD .. Same map different OD show different star. Star rating represent how hard to fc it maybe ? some ppl misunderstood it how hard for pass
Neliel
174 posts
Joined March 2012
Neliel
Well, doesnt work for me.
Same map, different OD, same star rating.



Mythras
255 posts
Joined February 2010
Mythras
just do it again, right now with HD and get 99% with it? Instead of crying on a forum where nobody gives a shit? I dunno broheim
Akari-
211 posts
Joined May 2010
Akari-
HD actually gives a respectable bonus if you play an aim heavy map

if you can't handle HD without losing accuracy then don't submit scores with HD
D e s
295 posts
Joined August 2013
D e s

Deadlyneliel wrote:

Well, doesnt work for me.
Same map, different OD, same star rating.



oh its circle size lol I thought it was OD ww
Kaeru
302 posts
Joined February 2013
Kaeru
As long as you can get within a few 100's from your original score, you'll definitely gain pp (in most cases). Your difference in accuracy was too large though, especially considering the accuracy to pp formula is not linear (in other words, 99% to 100% will give you more of a pp boost than 98% to 99%).
meteor22
176 posts
Joined May 2013
meteor22
snowwhite lost 40pp on a song because of 7 100's

accuracy pp is very bad balanced
tfg50
149 posts
Joined September 2013
tfg50

Bassist Vinyl wrote:

accuracy is definitely overweighted especially top end. like how a 3.75 star song can give more PP if you SS it than a 4.41 star song gives if you 99% it. oh those 5x100's matter soooo much. But whatever, it's better than ppv1 even if it isn't satisfactory.
That won't happen unless the first song is od9 and the second song is od 7 or something like that.
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Vuelo Eluko

tfg50 wrote:

Bassist Vinyl wrote:

accuracy is definitely overweighted especially top end. like how a 3.75 star song can give more PP if you SS it than a 4.41 star song gives if you 99% it. oh those 5x100's matter soooo much. But whatever, it's better than ppv1 even if it isn't satisfactory.
That won't happen unless the first song is od9 and the second song is od 7 or something like that.
saw proof of it happening. the od wasnt that different.
Tom94
osu!dev
750 posts
Joined August 2012
Tom94

Bassist Vinyl wrote:

saw proof of it happening. the od wasnt that different.
Star difficulty correlates but doesn't scale with pp per se. S can also have sliderbreaks, making the combo lower and reducing the pp. How about you post said proof?

To the OP: 97% has about 3 times as much 100s as 99%, this is a large difference. Don't make the difference of mistaking it to be a small difference because "2% difference looks small". And here I am not even considering, that you wrote "99.xx". If you had 99.5%, then 97% would have been 6 times as many 100s and so on.
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Vuelo Eluko

Tom94 wrote:

Bassist Vinyl wrote:

saw proof of it happening. the od wasnt that different.
Star difficulty correlates but doesn't scale with pp per se. S can also have sliderbreaks, making the combo lower and reducing the pp. How about you post said proof?

To the OP: 97% has about 3 times as much 100s as 99%, this is a large difference. Don't make the difference of mistaking it to be a small difference because "2% difference looks small". And here I am not even considering, that you wrote "99.xx". If you had 99.5%, then 97% would have been 6 times as many 100s and so on.
well 5x100 is zero times more 100's than 0x100, but i still dont see how this work


Ohrami
685 posts
Joined March 2010
Ohrami

Bassist Vinyl wrote:

well 5x100 is zero times more 100's than 0x100
:?
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny
5x100 is infinitely times more 100's than 0x100...
jesse1412
1,457 posts
Joined January 2010
jesse1412

buny wrote:

5x100 is infinitely times more 100's than 0x100...
timemon
Beatmap Nominator
1,305 posts
Joined November 2012
timemon

Bassist Vinyl wrote:

accuracy is definitely overweighted especially top end. like how a 3.75 star song can give more PP if you SS it than a 4.41 star song gives if you 99% it. oh those 5x100's matter soooo much. But whatever, it's better than ppv1 even if it isn't satisfactory.
the 3.75 stars map gives 121pp when SS'd OD9
the 4.41 stars map gives 127pp when SS'd OD8

If the 3.75 stars map weren't OD9, it would give much less pp.
manjumochi
162 posts
Joined April 2013
manjumochi
We need a change in scoring system... Just my opinion.
B1rd
2,974 posts
Joined December 2013
B1rd
Seems fine to me. Think how much more difficult it is to SS a 5 minute song compared to the difficulty getting 98%. If you're getting two or 3 times more 100's then that's going to have an big impact on your score, even if it seems like a negligible one or two percent less accuracy.
manjumochi
162 posts
Joined April 2013
manjumochi

B1rd wrote:

Seems fine to me. Think how much more difficult it is to SS a 5 minute song compared to the difficulty getting 98%. If you're getting two or 3 times more 100's then that's going to have an big impact on your score, even if it seems like a negligible one or two percent less accuracy.
The problem is that the bonuses from 100's or 50's have different values in each part of the combo, so you lose more score at the end of combo compared to the begining.
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Vuelo Eluko

manjumochi wrote:

B1rd wrote:

Seems fine to me. Think how much more difficult it is to SS a 5 minute song compared to the difficulty getting 98%. If you're getting two or 3 times more 100's then that's going to have an big impact on your score, even if it seems like a negligible one or two percent less accuracy.
The problem is that the bonuses from 100's or 50's have different values in each part of the combo, so you lose more score at the end of combo compared to the begining.
PP doesnt care about that...
Kaeru
302 posts
Joined February 2013
Kaeru
Yeah. We're talking about performance points here, not score. I personally think the accuracy system is fine the way it is, but what bugs me is combo. Getting a single miss in the middle of the song can turn an amazing play into something worth absolutely no PP whatsoever. Even if you hit every other note, combo plays such a big role in the calculations that it doesn't really matter. I don't really agree with this. I'm fine with the way misses work, though.
manjumochi
162 posts
Joined April 2013
manjumochi

Bassist Vinyl wrote:

PP doesnt care about that...
PP doesn't care, but the top performance which PP uses to calculate does care. The same performance for PP doesn't translate in same scoring, this is kind of unfair to me. Sometimes (and it's very common) we get better scoring with worse accuracy (and same combo) because of scoring system doesn't care about accuracy (accuracy matters to PP, but not for score, but general performance cares about score and not PP).
nooblet
630 posts
Joined December 2011
nooblet

manjumochi wrote:

PP doesn't care, but the top performance which PP uses to calculate does care. The same performance for PP doesn't translate in same scoring, this is kind of unfair to me. Sometimes (and it's very common) we get better scoring with worse accuracy (and same combo) because of scoring system doesn't care about accuracy (accuracy matters to PP, but not for score, but general performance cares about score and not PP).
Uhh... If you're trying to say (Higher score lower accuracy) >> (Lower score higher accuracy) then you're just a scoreboard. What truly matters is the number of screwups and how badly you screw up, not when you screw up. This is why it's better to start off on a map with high accuracy, this way you're less likely to do a low-acc-high-score play.

If by "General Performance" you mean score ranking on a map, I'll just say nobody really cares who has the higher score, it's the best play that matters, ie. best accuracy+combo. Usually this turns out higher on the scoreboard anyways, only on rare occasions (with many screwups at the start) can you get a higher score with lower accuracy.
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