i know ive still seen some people use double mice, isn´t it the same as a keyboard? i mean it feels different, but if you can do that why not go kb. My suggestion is, yes it is a bit of a pain to relearn some things, but it pays of. So go KB in my opinion, you will have to change styles many times until you finally find what suits you best, so get used to it.

TheVileOne wrote:

like everyone else.

never has better justification been made
also op you need to get cookiezis tablet and hold the pen the same way

For now it is not that I can't improve at all with the way I play currently, I will keep going with mouse only, and keep trying that finger on the keyboard, in case I feel I need it.

Maybe I'll switch to KB someday, but for now it is just depressing seeing my performance when trying it..

You know improvement doesn't really happen in a pair of hours or even days, right? You need to play A LOT to get accustomed to your new play style if you want to improve at it.

Anyway, as a mouse-only player myself, I do struggle at long streams too -if they're really long and fast, I can't handle more than 160~ bpm, even less I believe- and that's why I've been trying to improve my stamina and speed lately. I've made little progress as I haven't been able to play much, but eventually I'll find time to train and get better at it. I do become desperate at times if I don't notice any improvement, but when I do I can really feel it.

Keep playing and try not to give up. If you're fine doing it mouse-only, go for it. It's challenging. If not, just switch to keyboard but don't expect to become a stream master in just a week, it doesn't happen. Keyboard will also make everything easier -and is faster and easier to become good at than mouse-.

The same thing all the time.


You're expecting results too fast!!


This would apply to the most of the threads. This is not space invaders, you won't learn this game so quickly.

You say you have trouble streaming with the hand you move your mouse with, do you actually use your hand to move your mouse as opposed to your arm? Most good mouse only players use low sensitivity and arm movement with a palm grip which provides a stable platform for streaming. Streaming with mouse only and high sensitivity with hand movement is a bit harder since there's an extra barrier in regards to how you move your mouse whilst spamming both buttons, but it's still viable and possible to overcome.

So basically in terms of 'easiness', mouse+high sen. w/hand<mouse+low sen. w/arm<mouse+keyboard<tablet+keyboard

If you want to stick with your current playstyle that's fine, though you will progress quicker in the long run by using keyboard, or with a tablet. As for how you get better at streaming, practice! Long streams are hard for everyone so you're not especially bad at them. There's already been a ton of helpful things been said by top players on how to improve your streaming so go and search the forums for those for help.

Another tip I'd give is with mouse you can practise alternating with your fingers on any hard surface, since mouse buttons have a tiny actuation distance; practice on tapping consistently and uniformly.

AmaiHachimitsu wrote:

The same thing all the time.


You're expecting results too fast!!


This would apply to the most of the threads. This is not space invaders, you won't learn this game so quickly.

no I am not, I know switching to keyboard will take time and practice to get as good as with as I am currently with the mouse only set-up

But I also don't plan to become pro at this game, I am just playing for fun

what I wanted to say with this thread, is to actually convince me not to switch to keyboard, and keep going with the mouse only way.

B1rd wrote:

You say you have trouble streaming with the hand you move your mouse with, do you actually use your hand to move your mouse as opposed to your arm? Most good mouse only players use low sensitivity and arm movement with a palm grip which provides a stable platform for streaming. Streaming with mouse only and high sensitivity with hand movement is a bit harder since there's an extra barrier in regards to how you move your mouse whilst spamming both buttons, but it's still viable and possible to overcome.

So basically in terms of 'easiness', mouse+high sen. w/hand<mouse+low sen. w/arm<mouse+keyboard<tablet+keyboard

If you want to stick with your current playstyle that's fine, though you will progress quicker in the long run by using keyboard, or with a tablet. As for how you get better at streaming, practice! Long streams are hard for everyone so you're not especially bad at them. There's already been a ton of helpful things been said by top players on how to improve your streaming so go and search the forums for those for help.

Another tip I'd give is with mouse you can practise alternating with your fingers on any hard surface, since mouse buttons have a tiny actuation distance; practice on tapping consistently and uniformly.

I do use very very high sensetivity around 4k DPI I think, and close to a claw like grip on the mouse.
I used to have lower, but I actually increased it, when I wanted to become better at jumps, and dang did I improve by a landslide by increasing the sensetivity on jumps xD and I felt I got overall better aswell. So I don't really feel like decreasing the sensetivity, but perhaps it may be for the best.

yeah, I have been looking around the forums to help me with streams, but usually they are keyboard related, and what you said by decreasing sense is something I have seen been said aswell.

4k dpi, really? What resolution do you play at? I'd recommend turning it down a little at least depending on res.

About mouse streaming, I think kriers has said something about that, I will try and find it when I can be bothered.

increasing dpi did not make you better at jumps, it made you worse. by compensating for your slow hand by making the cursor faster, you lost aim and precision. if you had lowered your dpi you would have actually been getting better at jumps...

you're limiting how good you can get by using 4k dpi, and how fast/precise your hand can get...

Using a high dpi is fine
but 4k is just pushing it

How do you even mouse only with such high dpi...?
I'd assume it looks like how I play when I tap with my tablet (small area)

buny wrote:

Using a high dpi is fine
but 4k is just pushing it

How do you even mouse only with such high dpi...?
I'd assume it looks like how I play when I tap with my tablet (small area)

Pretty much, I am using this DPI everywhere, in all games, I don't really have a problem.

Bassist Vinyl wrote:

increasing dpi did not make you better at jumps, it made you worse. by compensating for your slow hand by making the cursor faster, you lost aim and precision. if you had lowered your dpi you would have actually been getting better at jumps...

you're limiting how good you can get by using 4k dpi, and how fast/precise your hand can get...

That doesn't make any sense.. Why did I do much much better overall after increasing it then?

Again, I can do jumps without barely missing them, with this DPI, Also I don't use my arm at all, my arm is locked in position when I play. I am using about 3-4 cm of my mousepad, if I had a mouse pad that was 4-5cm in diameter, I could play osu with that mousepad. Probably not the ideal way to play, but works for me so far.

B1rd wrote:

4k dpi, really? What resolution do you play at? I'd recommend turning it down a little at least depending on res.

About mouse streaming, I think kriers has said something about that, I will try and find it when I can be bothered.

1080x1920

Do you have mouse acceleration (or "enhance pointer precision" as Microsoft calls it) enabled? If so, turn it off. That is probably what is causing your accuracy issues. (also, keep in mind that most mice have inherent acceleration issues that can not be avoided)
And yes, to a certain extent, lower DPI is more precise. You have less room for error (think of it as making your targets bigger), but you don't want to make your DPI too low as the extra mouse drift (unavoidable due to the nature of relative tracking) will make consistency more difficult.

well as you progress and your hand gets faster you will realize you dont need your cursor to be so fast and will probably lower your dpi yourself later on anyway [i did that, ended up going from 2400 to 1200]. im just saying it would be worth doing it now for muscle memories sake. like mii said more room for error = better aim. when you start playing harder maps you'll see how useful that is...

as for you why you got 'better', that was short term improvement because your slow hand movements were able to cover distance quicker which gave the illusion of that happening

theres just no need for 4k.

brezals wrote:

Pretty much, I am using this dpi everywhere, in all games, I don't really have a problem.

I highly doubt you play shooter games then.

I know a lot of people that don't play precision-based games have a very high dpi, what you don't realise or understand is that this game requires very accurate precision and movements that using a dpi is not the same as clicking an icon on your screen or clicking a button - you could do this on pretty much any DPI due to muscle memory.

The thing is, though, is that this game requires you to move your mouse precisively AND in quick successions. When you're given less time to think you're obviously going to be less precise in your movements, and a lower dpi allows a larger range of error as a trade-off for speed - and at 4k dpi you're probably hardly using your wrist to move your mouse at all (I could probably move my mouse left and right as fast as you, despite having a lower dpi, as I am just swaying my wrist left and right)

As you get to harder maps, higher dpi causes your hand to strain more due to so many fast yet small movements and affects your gameplay (and quite possibly health) long term.

4000 dpi at 1080p is reasonable, If you were say, playing at 1440x900, that would've been going a bit over the top.

You can definitely get become a good player at that sensitivity, but from my own experiences and talking to expert high dpi players, it is harder and takes longer to build up accuracy and consistency compared to low dpi and large arm movements. As you probably know, high sen. is the only way to play with hand movements, I'm pretty sure everyone who plays at lower dpi use arm movement so you may as well disregard their advice.

So, if you like your playstyle then stick with it! but know that it will make it somewhat harder to progress, so don't compare yourself to other people, just concentrate on getting better. Also check out this guy https://osu.ppy.sh/u/salochin

Ok as for tips;

-you really need to focus on accuracy. Speed is useless, passing the Scarlet Rose with a C won't count for anything, you need to be able to full combo songs with 98% accuracy to get good scores. So what I recommend is you start playing hards instead of insane mostly, only play songs that you can or are trying to full combo. It's taken me a full 6 months to be able to even full combo some hard with a degree of reliability, but of you want to be good it's what you have to do; you need to train your brain not to miss, when you play fast insane songs it's not beneficial for your skills as you're teaching yourself that you only have to be accurate enough not to fail that song. So I will repeat, focus on getting full combos, not passing hard and fast songs.

-Make sure your osu! sensitivity is at 1.0x, your windows pointer speed is at 6/11 with pointer acceleration off, and tun raw input on. These just insure your cursor is precise

-Get a mouse pad! going from a gaming mouse pad from a generic cloth one actually made me improve by a ridiculous amount. At high sensitivity it can really can make a difference, you don't notice it when you've got used to it (I only noticed after trying a tablet for a while), but playing on a surface with a lot of friction can make it way harder to make the small and precise movements needed. I recommend the SteelSeries 4HD (what I got) or the Razer Goliathus Control Edition (actually faster than the 'speed edition'). And if you haven't already, get a gaming mouse, they have low friction feet.

Anyway, good luck; GANBATTE~

buny wrote:

brezals wrote:

Pretty much, I am using this dpi everywhere, in all games, I don't really have a problem.

I highly doubt you play shooter games then.

I know a lot of people that don't play precision-based games have a very high dpi, what you don't realise or understand is that this game requires very accurate precision and movements that using a dpi is not the same as clicking an icon on your screen or clicking a button - you could do this on pretty much any DPI due to muscle memory.

The thing is, though, is that this game requires you to move your mouse precisively AND in quick successions. When you're given less time to think you're obviously going to be less precise in your movements, and a lower dpi allows a larger range of error as a trade-off for speed - and at 4k dpi you're probably hardly using your wrist to move your mouse at all (I could probably move my mouse left and right as fast as you, despite having a lower dpi, as I am just swaying my wrist left and right)

As you get to harder maps, higher dpi causes your hand to strain more due to so many fast yet small movements and affects your gameplay (and quite possibly health) long term.

it's not really a speed trade-off even, the hand makes up for it by becoming faster

Bassist Vinyl wrote:

it's not really a speed trade-off even, the hand makes up for it by becoming faster

Not entirely what I meant, but I mean his dpi is so high that he's trading precision for nothing.

buny wrote:

brezals wrote:

Pretty much, I am using this dpi everywhere, in all games, I don't really have a problem.

I highly doubt you play shooter games then.

I know a lot of people that don't play precision-based games have a very high dpi, what you don't realise or understand is that this game requires very accurate precision and movements that using a dpi is not the same as clicking an icon on your screen or clicking a button - you could do this on pretty much any DPI due to muscle memory.

The thing is, though, is that this game requires you to move your mouse precisively AND in quick successions. When you're given less time to think you're obviously going to be less precise in your movements, and a lower dpi allows a larger range of error as a trade-off for speed - and at 4k dpi you're probably hardly using your wrist to move your mouse at all (I could probably move my mouse left and right as fast as you, despite having a lower dpi, as I am just swaying my wrist left and right)

As you get to harder maps, higher dpi causes your hand to strain more due to so many fast yet small movements and affects your gameplay (and quite possibly health) long term.

I play counter strike GO, been doing that for many many years, I used to play with low sensetivity, then I started OSU around a month ago, and while I played Osu, I switched to higher sensetivity, now I play counter strike with the same sensetivity (although I believe it is a bit lower then in OSU, but still farily similar) and I am improving in Counter strike a ton now aswell. I guess some things works for others better then most huh?

B1rd wrote:

4000 dpi at 1080p is reasonable, If you were say, playing at 1440x900, that would've been going a bit over the top.

You can definitely get become a good player at that sensitivity, but from my own experiences and talking to expert high dpi players, it is harder and takes longer to build up accuracy and consistency compared to low dpi and large arm movements. As you probably know, high sen. is the only way to play with hand movements, I'm pretty sure everyone who plays at lower dpi use arm movement so you may as well disregard their advice.

So, if you like your playstyle then stick with it! but know that it will make it somewhat harder to progress, so don't compare yourself to other people, just concentrate on getting better. Also check out this guy https://osu.ppy.sh/u/salochin

Ok as for tips;

-you really need to focus on accuracy. Speed is useless, passing the Scarlet Rose with a C won't count for anything, you need to be able to full combo songs with 98% accuracy to get good scores. So what I recommend is you start playing hards instead of insane mostly, only play songs that you can or are trying to full combo. It's taken me a full 6 months to be able to even full combo some hard with a degree of reliability, but of you want to be good it's what you have to do; you need to train your brain not to miss, when you play fast insane songs it's not beneficial for your skills as you're teaching yourself that you only have to be accurate enough not to fail that song. So I will repeat, focus on getting full combos, not passing hard and fast songs.

-Make sure your osu! sensitivity is at 1.0x, your windows pointer speed is at 6/11 with pointer acceleration off, and tun raw input on. These just insure your cursor is precise

-Get a mouse pad! going from a gaming mouse pad from a generic cloth one actually made me improve by a ridiculous amount. At high sensitivity it can really can make a difference, you don't notice it when you've got used to it (I only noticed after trying a tablet for a while), but playing on a surface with a lot of friction can make it way harder to make the small and precise movements needed. I recommend the SteelSeries 4HD (what I got) or the Razer Goliathus Control Edition (actually faster than the 'speed edition'). And if you haven't already, get a gaming mouse, they have low friction feet.

Anyway, good luck; GANBATTE~

Thanks for the tips, but I already have a mousepad with very very low fricton, I almost never feel it. I remember playing OSU at a friends house, and he had this very old plastic mousepad, and it had ton of friction and I couldn't play OSU there haha xD

So far I have FC one or two insane songs, but I am doing what you say, I do mostly play Hard songs, and are trying to FC them as much as possible with high accuracy, and last couple of days that has been going swimmingly, I don't remember how much PP I had when I made this thread, but I think I have gotten around 200PP since I made this thread.

I was in the same boat. I never wanted to play mouse+kb because... well, it just isn't that fun for me. Mouse only is extremely satisfying, but I ordered a tablet recently because the idea of using a tablet to play osu seems just as fun as mouse only. I'm currently playing mouse+kb just to get used to the keyboard before my tablet arrives and I can say, at least so far, you will make progress. I've only dumped ~10 hours into the switch, but there is tangible progress. I guess I'm just saying you probably don't need to be worried about it. It is quite disheartening going down to easier songs again, but it is an investment that will pay off in the long run .

I like to think my transition is pretty slow, regardless, in the first 10 hours I went from literally having to sit down with 3 star songs to getting A's on the more difficult hard songs and passing some insanes. My accuracy blows at the moment, the timing is just off, but it is improving and will continue to improve just like it did when you learned with the mouse.

I was originally a mouse + kb player, and I was about ~2000 plays in before switching to mouse + kb. It really really helped. Whilst I was shitty at first, and even my normal tapping was off, I got better (mind you my accuracy still sucks) but I can actually pass streams now.

Update on how I have proceeded, I am switching to KB whenever a tricky stream is comming and using mouse on everything else, so far it has gone actually very good. Works for me! So yeah, I can finally do streamers much more reliable then before.

Soon 900PP