@buny i believe when he said 200 bpm singles he meant 1/2 notes which would be 100 bpm 1/4What, but soooo many people can singletap that, that can't possibly be what he means.
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Is it worth switching to single tapping?
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Coffee Hero
I said anything above 200 bpm. I can singletap 200bpm easily, of course. Anything under that I can do with just my fingers, anything over that my body involves the wrist and arm.Shirokami- wrote:
@buny i believe when he said 200 bpm singles he meant 1/2 notes which would be 100 bpm 1/4What, but soooo many people can singletap that, that can't possibly be what he means.
Really that guy doing the image material is the exception not the rule as far as I've seen
Well I'm pretty sure if you can stream 260bpm then you can also do a couple singles on that bpm,but using wrist is so much more reliable/consistent and not half as tiring so why do otherwise? I think what he means is literally the best practice is tapping with your fingers only,but if you really wanted to do a good run youll use your wrist for a certain bpm anyway.EcksDee wrote:
I said anything above 200 bpm. I can singletap 200bpm easily, of course. Anything under that I can do with just my fingers, anything over that my body involves the wrist and arm.
Really that guy doing the image material is the exception not the rule as far as I've seen
Just my 2 cents as an alternate player, but play the way you have more fun.
Even if you could theoretically prove that single-tapping is de facto "better", if the switch is going to be tedious and unfun, it'll just lead to pointless frustration down the line and leave you less motivated to play and perfect your technique.
On the other hand if you have fun learning single-tapping, why not - being a more versatile player is not going to hurt.
Even if you could theoretically prove that single-tapping is de facto "better", if the switch is going to be tedious and unfun, it'll just lead to pointless frustration down the line and leave you less motivated to play and perfect your technique.
On the other hand if you have fun learning single-tapping, why not - being a more versatile player is not going to hurt.
I don't really get it, but when I started I used single tap, I tried alternating and it was awful at first. However, after a few hours I found it waaaaay better then single tap. This was on normal - easy maps tho so idk. I guess i'll try out single tapping again, but alternating seems better, logically you can tap faster with two keys rather than one and having two means you'll tire out slower as well. Personally alternating seems straight up better. The only pro to single tapping appears to be only thinking about one key for the majority of maps imho.
It still doesn't matter, because there's no reason to use a less efficient tool just for the sake of using a less efficient tool. No matter how you do it, streaming isn't the same as just adding a second finger to single-tapping; the added motion of the second finger makes them different on a physiological level, and the alteration to the movement as a whole means the muscle memory doesn't transfer. If anything, alternating is much closer to streaming simply because the motions are identical, so alternating very high bpm maps would train everything but your speed, and if you want to train your streaming speed the best way to do it is to stream.buny wrote:
This
Stop comparing single tapping as wrist tapping, it's like saying double tapping is to alternating...
You claim that single tapping is beneficial because it allows for faster improvement, but you don't seem to get that the reason it allows for faster improvement is because it pushes the player harder, and that it's entirely possible to get that extra push from alternating by simply playing faster maps. I highly doubt that alternating players hit a "stamina wall," and if they do I'd say it's entirely their own fault for not figuring out how to push through it with the tools available to them. I think it's far more likely they hit an accuracy wall.
The walls you hit and their order depends mostly on the person though. Single-tappers hit walls too, and everyone has their own wall/s to overcome. To try and pin 1 of those on alternating is pointless.
Also to say that wrist single-tapping doesn't train your fingers is also a myth. That's like saying we don't use our neck muscles to hold our heads up if we aren't moving it. The impact from hitting the keyboard harder due to using your wrist causes a strain on your finger too. It allows you to tap faster and a marginal improvement to stamina, which quickly becomes a problem again as we step up to even higher BPM's to get the same challenge. As long as you don't settle, the method doesn't matter too much.
Also to say that wrist single-tapping doesn't train your fingers is also a myth. That's like saying we don't use our neck muscles to hold our heads up if we aren't moving it. The impact from hitting the keyboard harder due to using your wrist causes a strain on your finger too. It allows you to tap faster and a marginal improvement to stamina, which quickly becomes a problem again as we step up to even higher BPM's to get the same challenge. As long as you don't settle, the method doesn't matter too much.
he was referring to the technique of only using your finger to tap not wrist, which he believed could not be used above 200 bpm 1/2, thats why i posted keigoclear [aka who?] playing image materialShirokami- wrote:
@buny i believe when he said 200 bpm singles he meant 1/2 notes which would be 100 bpm 1/4What, but soooo many people can singletap that, that can't possibly be what he means.
look at the post he was quoting
nyrox always tells the truthnyrox wrote:
I think singletapping has a more steady improvement because you can always be getting faster.
Alternating, at least for me, gave me a quick spike in improvement but now I'm really struggling to gain speed.
+1337
is it worth playing osu
To an alting player a map needs to be either full of streams (good luck diving straight in after building up on singles) or above 400bpm to get some fast 1/2 notes to practice. Good luck to you my friend pushing yourself without spamming deathstream maps constantly. Of course you can go play fast maps which are evidently in abundance, assuming you've learnt to read and aim 400bpm 1/2 full screen jumps in which case I applaud you.NarrillNezzurh wrote:
It still doesn't matter, because there's no reason to use a less efficient tool just for the sake of using a less efficient tool. No matter how you do it, streaming isn't the same as just adding a second finger to single-tapping; the added motion of the second finger makes them different on a physiological level, and the alteration to the movement as a whole means the muscle memory doesn't transfer. If anything, alternating is much closer to streaming simply because the motions are identical, so alternating very high bpm maps would train everything but your speed, and if you want to train your streaming speed the best way to do it is to stream.buny wrote:
This
Stop comparing single tapping as wrist tapping, it's like saying double tapping is to alternating...
You claim that single tapping is beneficial because it allows for faster improvement, but you don't seem to get that the reason it allows for faster improvement is because it pushes the player harder, and that it's entirely possible to get that extra push from alternating by simply playing faster maps. I highly doubt that alternating players hit a "stamina wall," and if they do I'd say it's entirely their own fault for not figuring out how to push through it with the tools available to them. I think it's far more likely they hit an accuracy wall.
Whats wrong with practicing on deathstream maps separatelyjesus1412 wrote:
To an alting player a map needs to be either full of streams (good luck diving straight in after building up on singles) or above 400bpm to get some fast 1/2 notes to practice. Good luck to you my friend pushing yourself without spamming deathstream maps constantly. Of course you can go play fast maps which are evidently in abundance, assuming you've learnt to read and aim 400bpm 1/2 full screen jumps in which case I applaud you.
I mean truth be told im still very much on the fence about that "singletapping fast with your arm/wrist with a stationary finger helps speed up your two finger streaming with a stationary arm/wrist"
I remember you said "it just does", but i'll hold my breath until we see an alter in the top5 players.
May or may not happen, but thats a whole lot of claims being thrown out yknow.
The problem is most people just don't like deathstream maps straight out. Even 1key players.EcksDee wrote:
Whats wrong with practicing on deathstream maps separatelyjesus1412 wrote:
To an alting player a map needs to be either full of streams (good luck diving straight in after building up on singles) or above 400bpm to get some fast 1/2 notes to practice. Good luck to you my friend pushing yourself without spamming deathstream maps constantly. Of course you can go play fast maps which are evidently in abundance, assuming you've learnt to read and aim 400bpm 1/2 full screen jumps in which case I applaud you.
I mean truth be told im still very much on the fence about that "singletapping fast with your arm/wrist with a stationary finger helps speed up your two finger streaming with a stationary arm/wrist"
I remember you said "it just does", but i'll hold my breath until we see an alter in the top5 players.
May or may not happen, but thats a whole lot of claims being thrown out yknow.
Yeah, I hate deathstreams. Heck, I genuinely hate streaming full stop, but if what I need to do to continue alternating, as that's what feels natural to me, is specifically practice them, then that's what I'm gonna do.jesus1412 wrote:
The problem is most people just don't like deathstream maps straight out. Even 1key players.
And this is a problem unique to alternating players because...jesus1412 wrote:
To an alting player a map needs to be either full of streams (good luck diving straight in after building up on singles) or above 400bpm to get some fast 1/2 notes to practice. Good luck to you my friend pushing yourself without spamming deathstream maps constantly. Of course you can go play fast maps which are evidently in abundance, assuming you've learnt to read and aim 400bpm 1/2 full screen jumps in which case I applaud you.
as in its harder for a full alt to push themselves in stamina/speed because they have to go way faster than a singletapper to reach that speed where it becomes difficult physically.NarrillNezzurh wrote:
And this is a problem unique to alternating players because...jesus1412 wrote:
To an alting player a map needs to be either full of streams (good luck diving straight in after building up on singles) or above 400bpm to get some fast 1/2 notes to practice. Good luck to you my friend pushing yourself without spamming deathstream maps constantly. Of course you can go play fast maps which are evidently in abundance, assuming you've learnt to read and aim 400bpm 1/2 full screen jumps in which case I applaud you.
it's limiting
I've already explained why I don't believe that to be the case.
If you can show why singletapping is somehow better in training your streaming speed, then you might have a case.Bassist Vinyl wrote:
as in its harder for a full alt to push themselves in stamina/speed because they have to go way faster than a singletapper to reach that speed where it becomes difficult physically.
it's limiting
You guys are turning this into a technical debate when it's not. If it were about technical details, then alternating is superior, since you can just train streams to sort out your speed/stamina.
Fact is, it's not that simple. You can argue this forever (as it has been going on forever already), because like I said, everyone has different walls to overcome and some may not apply to certain people who have success with alternating. Generally people have an easier time grasping the game and learning to be accurate when single-tapping.
If all you are going to say is, "oh, but that can be sorted out with practice" - then you don't have an argument. We aren't comparing the skill cap, we're comparing rate of progression, since it's quite obvious that no one is there yet and alternating has a lot of potential. Many people share the opinion that alternating takes more effort/practice since there are extra variables... like practicing to do patterns in both directions with your fingers, and to do that fast and accurately.
Anyway, that's not all there is to it. If it were just a speed/stamina issue, how do you explain why alternating players don't challenge themselves? Who would get comfortable so easily? There has to be another reason and I think reading has something to do with it because alternating players aren't anywhere near challenging their speed/stamina on typical maps. You actually have to go to deathstream maps to practice something you rarely use.
Fact is, it's not that simple. You can argue this forever (as it has been going on forever already), because like I said, everyone has different walls to overcome and some may not apply to certain people who have success with alternating. Generally people have an easier time grasping the game and learning to be accurate when single-tapping.
If all you are going to say is, "oh, but that can be sorted out with practice" - then you don't have an argument. We aren't comparing the skill cap, we're comparing rate of progression, since it's quite obvious that no one is there yet and alternating has a lot of potential. Many people share the opinion that alternating takes more effort/practice since there are extra variables... like practicing to do patterns in both directions with your fingers, and to do that fast and accurately.
Anyway, that's not all there is to it. If it were just a speed/stamina issue, how do you explain why alternating players don't challenge themselves? Who would get comfortable so easily? There has to be another reason and I think reading has something to do with it because alternating players aren't anywhere near challenging their speed/stamina on typical maps. You actually have to go to deathstream maps to practice something you rarely use.
I agree completely. I just don't think it's a good idea to totally throw out the concept, and many players do just that using silly, potentially circular logic.
Could anyone who has successfully managed to increase their singletapping speed comment on the method they used? Did you practice on singletapping maps at the limit of your speed or slightly above? Or did it come naturally by just playing whatever?
Also, does anyone have any good maps for singletap practice between 210 and 220 bpm? I can't pass past that barrier.
These are good at 210:
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/27306
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/20328
Also, does anyone have any good maps for singletap practice between 210 and 220 bpm? I can't pass past that barrier.
These are good at 210:
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/27306
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/20328
Wrist tapping trains strength in your finger and wrist, but your wrist is mostly affected in terms of speed/stamina gains, not your finger. The gain in finger strength can help to reaffirm muscle memory with the method below. This is done simply by hitting your keyboard harder and playing at or above your limit.tollox wrote:
Could anyone who has successfully managed to increase their singletapping speed comment on the method they used? Did you practice on singletapping maps at the limit of your speed or slightly above? Or did it come naturally by just playing whatever?
Finger-tapping leads to a direct gain in speed and stamina for your finger, but not much strength, since it is important to maintain a relaxed state in your hand while isolating finger movement, when playing at your limit. This is less important at slower speeds where you can use more strength for each hit and help to reaffirm muscle memory for when you go back to higher speeds (like interchanging slow & fast stream training to improve stream speed).
So use your wrist for things that are faster than you are capable of finger-tapping (above limits). Use finger-tapping on anything within your limits, gradually using more force when things get slower to reaffirm muscle memory and get some moderate finger strength training.
Or you could start lifting and forget all that.
Feel free to disagree, I won't get butthurt, I promise.
Do whatever you feel comfortable with. Most of people singletap because this is their preference. I, personally, can do both. But i feel comfortable when alternating between 2 keys ^~^
Got you covered buddy. Thank ranefire. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... ring#gid=0tollox wrote:
Could anyone who has successfully managed to increase their singletapping speed comment on the method they used? Did you practice on singletapping maps at the limit of your speed or slightly above? Or did it come naturally by just playing whatever?
Also, does anyone have any good maps for singletap practice between 210 and 220 bpm? I can't pass past that barrier.
These are good at 210:
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/27306
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/20328
Topic Starter
Well been single tapping for quite a bit now and I can't really say I can see what you guys say. I really don't even come close to getting tired or to feel "pushed" even if I spam play things like talent shredder chata remind and a bunch of other songs. Granted those aren't the fastest of maps but what keeps me from even trying to play faster things is my accuracy/reading and not really my single tap speed. I still only manage to get tired when I play https://osu.ppy.sh/b/117580&m=0 for a while but thats pretty much because its a lot of streaming the entire time which involves me alternating.
Sounds like good advice! Gotta work on them wristtaps it seems, there are huge areas outside of my limits.RaneFire wrote:
Wrist tapping trains strength in your finger and wrist, but your wrist is mostly affected in terms of speed/stamina gains, not your finger. The gain in finger strength can help to reaffirm muscle memory with the method below. This is done simply by hitting your keyboard harder and playing at or above your limit.tollox wrote:
Could anyone who has successfully managed to increase their singletapping speed comment on the method they used? Did you practice on singletapping maps at the limit of your speed or slightly above? Or did it come naturally by just playing whatever?
Finger-tapping leads to a direct gain in speed and stamina for your finger, but not much strength, since it is important to maintain a relaxed state in your hand while isolating finger movement, when playing at your limit. This is less important at slower speeds where you can use more strength for each hit and help to reaffirm muscle memory for when you go back to higher speeds (like interchanging slow & fast stream training to improve stream speed).
So use your wrist for things that are faster than you are capable of finger-tapping (above limits). Use finger-tapping on anything within your limits, gradually using more force when things get slower to reaffirm muscle memory and get some moderate finger strength training.
Or you could start lifting and forget all that.
Feel free to disagree, I won't get butthurt, I promise.
Sweet, that's really helpful.jesus1412 wrote:
Got you covered buddy. Thank ranefire. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... ring#gid=0tollox wrote:
Could anyone who has successfully managed to increase their singletapping speed comment on the method they used? Did you practice on singletapping maps at the limit of your speed or slightly above? Or did it come naturally by just playing whatever?
Also, does anyone have any good maps for singletap practice between 210 and 220 bpm? I can't pass past that barrier.
These are good at 210:
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/27306
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/20328
I regret full alternating.
My accuracy is hopeless and im not raising my limits because maps that are hard overall do not make me push my speed.
My accuracy is hopeless and im not raising my limits because maps that are hard overall do not make me push my speed.
What in the -aizhid wrote:
I regret full alternating.
My accuracy is hopeless and im not raising my limits because maps that are hard overall do not make me push my speed.
What does full alternating have to do with bad accuracy? You have to work on something to get good at it. I full alternate as well, and I'm fully capable of mashing semi-accurately (98-99.5) on songs of OD 7-8.
Yeah, 85% accuracy is a not an issue with your tapping technique. Like I'd guess either you have no ear for rhythm or your offset is beyond wrong.
That guy has the same problem as me LOL.
That's a personal problem and not at all related to alting.aizhid wrote:
I regret full alternating.
My accuracy is hopeless and im not raising my limits because maps that are hard overall do not make me push my speed.
You prolly just suck at rhythm
Layne_old_1
Here's also a nice single tap map here
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/323319&m=0
this is considered a start-of-a-day warmup for me, usually I rq if I can't get 97% or above
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/323319&m=0
this is considered a start-of-a-day warmup for me, usually I rq if I can't get 97% or above
well, thanks for the insight. I play osu like 8 hours a day and push myself on ACC all day by setting OD 1 higher.nooblet wrote:
What in the -aizhid wrote:
I regret full alternating.
My accuracy is hopeless and im not raising my limits because maps that are hard overall do not make me push my speed.
What does full alternating have to do with bad accuracy? You have to work on something to get good at it. I full alternate as well, and I'm fully capable of mashing semi-accurately (98-99.5) on songs of OD 7-8.
Then I come back and can't beat any of my old score's accuracy (2-3month ago)
I like that you linked BD's Mittens which is one of the hardest aiming/reading maps in this game loltollox wrote:
Could anyone who has successfully managed to increase their singletapping speed comment on the method they used? Did you practice on singletapping maps at the limit of your speed or slightly above? Or did it come naturally by just playing whatever?
Also, does anyone have any good maps for singletap practice between 210 and 220 bpm? I can't pass past that barrier.
These are good at 210:
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/27306
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/20328
anyways, start singletapping, many singletappers get an higher accuracy than with alternating, thelewa and Eylsion are exceptions
I can singletap 270BPM usually and 300BPM when I'm warmed up.