Cool thanks for all the replies, guess I'll probably stick to alternating for now have tried single tapping a few times but don't really like it as much feel its easier for me to follow the rhythm of the song when I alternate.
If you really want to push past the standard skill level, you should learn how to single tap.Robbieyo wrote:
Cool thanks for all the replies, guess I'll probably stick to alternating for now have tried single tapping a few times but don't really like it as much feel its easier for me to follow the rhythm of the song when I alternate.
Most players hit the wall and progress becomes a rarity. Alting players get the speed burst at first "huh lol i can play scarlet rose". After a while the 1key players catch up and don't stop until they hit their own wall as they are FORCED to get faster. Both can be accurate as fuck but the wall is all about physical ability, not reading or accuracy.GoldenWolf wrote:
the stamina wall
jesus1412 wrote:
Most players hit the wall and progress becomes a rarity. Alting players get the speed burst at first "huh lol i can play scarlet rose". After a while the 1key players catch up and don't stop until they hit their own wall as they are FORCED to get faster. Both can be accurate as fuck but the wall is all about physical ability, not reading or accuracy.GoldenWolf wrote:
the stamina wall
I understand, and I am well, well aware that 95% of the top players are singletappers.I don't, it's just what I have seen from observing friends/players in general.
Your statement however is that alters hit the wall faster.
How do you know this is some kind of truth of the universe and not just the fact that most people singletap because of reasons?
It in no way confirms the trend you graphed. Correlation does not equal causation, and there are a number of explanations for the relative lack of alternaters in the top 50, most of which have nothing to do with the actual limitations of alternation.jesus1412 wrote:
Fits the trend very nicely
Quite a few alters switch to single-tap when they hit that wall. That's what is skewing the statistics. I can assure you that the statistic is not 95% because of "follow the leader."EcksDee wrote:
How do you know this is some kind of truth of the universe and not just the fact that most people singletap because of reasons?
theres no doubt a lot of factors in what makes a top player but if a lack of one factor is almost always the case, that ONE factor raises red flags. I played WoW and you know why there were no enhancement shamans on a single one of the top 100 arena teams in season 9 [keeping in mind, an arena team, like a player, has many things that make it work well]? enhancement shamans, like alternating, just weren't the most viable way. or it would have been seen more I think.NarrillNezzurh wrote:
It in no way confirms the trend you graphed. Correlation does not equal causation, and there are a number of explanations for the relative lack of alternaters in the top 50, most of which have nothing to do with the actual limitations of alternation.jesus1412 wrote:
Fits the trend very nicely
yeah but in a game where everyones basically in a constant race to the top in a sense, that makes it unviable. kind of like how a slow car is 'just as good' as a fast car because it can go just as many miles before needing to be serviced, but in the end, it's just not going to be as viable in a competitive setting like that. Yeah the slower/harder to master car/tapping style can get just as far as the faster car, but the fast/easier to master one will always, always be ahead of itjesus1412 wrote:
It's not unviable. Just harder to master.
I single tap and I think that alternating is farking impossible. I probably am okay at alternating, but not very good since I usually single tap most of the notes.EcksDee wrote:
How is singletapping easier to learn though? When you alternate you know the next note will always be your other finger. When you singletap you gotta think about whether you do need to use your other finger or not. Add onto that the fact that alternating streams when you are a singletapping dude is a completely different set of finger movements being used.Ichi wrote:
It´s faster to improve with singletapping, it is really difficult to alternate correctly, and by that i mean that you FULLY alternate, and not just when a bunch of notes come together, and some other times you single. Singletapping is way more consistent and simpler to learn, simplicity is good, specially for your brain to get used to. I personally alternated when i first started, but i realised i was doing singletapping sometimes, so it wasn´t really a good style, i was caught in the middle of both. I´d say go singletap.
Its like such a roundabout way of playing the game I'm legitimately baffled whenever I see people singletap.
Correlation does not equal causation. That single factor does raise red flags, but without proper evidence you can't prove that it's the cause. Maybe few top players alternate because they started off single-tapping and never found a need to learn to alternate. Perhaps many of those top players are old enough that alternation simply wasn't a commonly known thing when they were learning. Perhaps they just don't see a need to learn it because what they have now is working. And of course, this disparity in the top bracket of players gives alternating a certain stigma, meaning new players are less likely to pick it up, leading to fewer alternating top players a few years down the road. It's entirely likely that these things are reasons why alternating isn't more common, and none of them have to do with the viability of alternating at all.Bassist Vinyl wrote:
theres no doubt a lot of factors in what makes a top player but if a lack of one factor is almost always the case, that ONE factor raises red flags. I played WoW and you know why there were no enhancement shamans on a single one of the top 100 arena teams in season 9 [keeping in mind, an arena team, like a player, has many things that make it work well]? enhancement shamans, like alternating, just weren't the most viable way. or it would have been seen more I think.
unless you have a good explanation for the lack of alternators besides lack of viability which I'd be interested in...
Yes both should be learnt. I'd just advice one is learnt before the other.NarrillNezzurh wrote:
Correlation does not equal causation. That single factor does raise red flags, but without proper evidence you can't prove that it's the cause. Maybe few top players alternate because they started off single-tapping and never found a need to learn to alternate. Perhaps many of those top players are old enough that alternation simply wasn't a commonly known thing when they were learning. Perhaps they just don't see a need to learn it because what they have now is working. And of course, this disparity in the top bracket of players gives alternating a certain stigma, meaning new players are less likely to pick it up, leading to fewer alternating top players a few years down the road. It's entirely likely that these things are reasons why alternating isn't more common, and none of them have to do with the viability of alternating at all.Bassist Vinyl wrote:
theres no doubt a lot of factors in what makes a top player but if a lack of one factor is almost always the case, that ONE factor raises red flags. I played WoW and you know why there were no enhancement shamans on a single one of the top 100 arena teams in season 9 [keeping in mind, an arena team, like a player, has many things that make it work well]? enhancement shamans, like alternating, just weren't the most viable way. or it would have been seen more I think.
unless you have a good explanation for the lack of alternators besides lack of viability which I'd be interested in...
Personally, I've found alternation to be a very valuable skill to have, and I firmly advocate learning it and using it side by side with single tapping. Where one fails, the other shines.
True it wasn't the best analogy I could come up with the time, but what I was trying to say is that alternating puts nearly no strain or pain on your fingers at all - thus you wouldn't really be training your stamina or speed in any way and the only aspect that you're going to improve is your aim and accuracy (which can be done single tapping also).NarrillNezzurh wrote:
It's not at all like taking the elevator rather than the stairs. You'll get better at alternating over time, but you'll never get better at taking the elevator. It's more like typing rather than writing on paper. It's more rigid, but far faster.
Now that I think about it, that's not a solid line of thinking at all. What you're suggesting is akin to single-tapping streams because it'll be better for our stamina in the long run.
Why? I can't speak for anyone else, but for me the physical motions of single-tapping and streaming are different (wrist motion vs. finger motion), so training one doesn't really help the other. The only way for me to practice streaming high bpm is to stream high bpm.buny wrote:
I highly doubt a player that alternates could be more or equally likely to be able to stream that fast compared to a single tap player.
Generally the justification for this is that singletapping tires you out faster which trains your muscles more, but as one is in the wrist and the other is in the fingers, I don't see how this can truly be the case.Robbieyo wrote:
Just gave single tapping a decent go and still fairly unsure if it would actually be better for me but going to as most people suggested learn both. I still can't really see how single tapping would improve my speed faster than alternating, I mean if I wanted to "hit the wall" I could just sit there playing maps like End Time for a while till my fingers just die.
if you're using your wrist/arm/elbow to single tap you're doing it wrong. Just the fingers; that's how it works.Ugh, unless you are literally cookiezi? I realise that if he did something it doesn't necesarily mean everyone should play exactly like him, but you can't tell consistency of his single tap and streaming wasn't amazing, thus that he did it wrong, or that anyone that has good effects using wrist does it wrong.
ThisDexus wrote:
if you're using your wrist/arm/elbow to single tap you're doing it wrong. Just the fingers; that's how it works.
And yet most liveplays on youtube of singletappers involve a combination of finger and wrist/arm movement for faster singletapping.buny wrote:
ThisDexus wrote:
if you're using your wrist/arm/elbow to single tap you're doing it wrong. Just the fingers; that's how it works.
Stop comparing single tapping as wrist tapping like double tapping is to alternating...
The most efficient method of playing singles with your arm that I found is to
Tense up your finger
Lift your wrist from the table a bit
Move your elbow up and your hand down at the same time
Move your elbow down and your hand up at the same time
Repeat last 2 steps. This essentially is rotating your forearm around the point between your elbow and hand back and forth.
I support the later quote, though I believe some parts are down to preference and style. For instance, I sometime like to rest my wrist on the edge of my keyboard (as it's all curved and stuff). Though the general aspect is the same. Tap with your arm. Not your wrist. Tensing perhaps isn't a must, but I suppose it helps...?EcksDee wrote:
The most efficient method of playing singles with your arm that I found is to
Tense up your finger
Lift your wrist from the table a bit
Move your elbow up and your hand down at the same time
Move your elbow down and your hand up at the same time
Repeat last 2 steps. This essentially is rotating your forearm around the point between your elbow and hand back and forth.
The most efficient method to playing singles that you can't single tap is to alternateEcksDee wrote:
And yet most liveplays on youtube of singletappers involve a combination of finger and wrist/arm movement for faster singletapping.
I quoth:The most efficient method of playing singles with your arm that I found is to
Tense up your finger
Lift your wrist from the table a bit
Move your elbow up and your hand down at the same time
Move your elbow down and your hand up at the same time
Repeat last 2 steps. This essentially is rotating your forearm around the point between your elbow and hand back and forth.
The point is, no-one fucking ever plays any singles past 200 bpm by just using their fingers like streaming with one finger.buny wrote:
The most efficient method to playing singles that you can't single tap is to alternate
what's your point?
Using 200 bpm as a counterpoint is just extreme, as players haven't reached that breakpoint yet (I'd say highest NORMAL single tapping is 180bpm)EcksDee wrote:
The point is, no-one fucking ever plays any singles past 200 bpm by just using their fingers like streaming with one finger.buny wrote:
The most efficient method to playing singles that you can't single tap is to alternate
what's your point?
Pls stahp.EcksDee wrote:
The point is, no-one fucking ever plays any singles past 200 bpm by just using their fingers like streaming with one finger.
I said anything above 200 bpm. I can singletap 200bpm easily, of course. Anything under that I can do with just my fingers, anything over that my body involves the wrist and arm.Shirokami- wrote:
@buny i believe when he said 200 bpm singles he meant 1/2 notes which would be 100 bpm 1/4What, but soooo many people can singletap that, that can't possibly be what he means.
Well I'm pretty sure if you can stream 260bpm then you can also do a couple singles on that bpm,but using wrist is so much more reliable/consistent and not half as tiring so why do otherwise? I think what he means is literally the best practice is tapping with your fingers only,but if you really wanted to do a good run youll use your wrist for a certain bpm anyway.EcksDee wrote:
I said anything above 200 bpm. I can singletap 200bpm easily, of course. Anything under that I can do with just my fingers, anything over that my body involves the wrist and arm.
Really that guy doing the image material is the exception not the rule as far as I've seen
It still doesn't matter, because there's no reason to use a less efficient tool just for the sake of using a less efficient tool. No matter how you do it, streaming isn't the same as just adding a second finger to single-tapping; the added motion of the second finger makes them different on a physiological level, and the alteration to the movement as a whole means the muscle memory doesn't transfer. If anything, alternating is much closer to streaming simply because the motions are identical, so alternating very high bpm maps would train everything but your speed, and if you want to train your streaming speed the best way to do it is to stream.buny wrote:
This
Stop comparing single tapping as wrist tapping, it's like saying double tapping is to alternating...
he was referring to the technique of only using your finger to tap not wrist, which he believed could not be used above 200 bpm 1/2, thats why i posted keigoclear [aka who?] playing image materialShirokami- wrote:
@buny i believe when he said 200 bpm singles he meant 1/2 notes which would be 100 bpm 1/4What, but soooo many people can singletap that, that can't possibly be what he means.
nyrox always tells the truthnyrox wrote:
I think singletapping has a more steady improvement because you can always be getting faster.
Alternating, at least for me, gave me a quick spike in improvement but now I'm really struggling to gain speed.