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Catch the Beat General Discussion

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Secre
Nomination Assessment Team
366 posts
Joined January 2013
Secre

- Magic Bomb - wrote:

chickenbible wrote:

The ONLY reason that people use hyperdashes in mapping is for the PP.
tfw i thought this was a serious post and then i read this line lmao
ya that was my bad by that i meant the 1/4th hyperspam that ascendance had previously pointed out

new topic

I don't hate any mappers personally, no mappers deserve to get flamed/death threats

The community who play the mappers maps are just trying to provide CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM to HELP them make their maps even better.

The community in general wants the best quality maps getting ranked, and as of late I personally think that's not happening. Is it the mappers fault? No. Is it the top ranking community's fault? No. It's everyone. Myself included, I wish I would have looked at several of the ranked maps today and modded them and helped make them even BETTER than they are now. I completely regret not modding maps in the past and it's going to be one of the things that I'll be doing in the future, to try to make this community and the ranked maps better.

I consider several mappers my close friends (like ascendance) but some of his maps I just don't like. Does that mean I hate ascendance? Hell no. I've heard that mappers are getting a lot of hate and criticism from random players that sometimes, they don't even know who they are. You guys are a public figure. It is GUARANTEED that you guys will get some hate. Does everyone love Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton? What about Loctav? These people get the same death threats and hate that you all do. While we know that it's completely wrong and unjust, it's going to happen. They still do their job for the PEOPLE. For the same people that constantly hate them. I'm not saying that the flame and hate towards mappers or anyone is right, but sadly it's to be expected.


Riari wrote:

If you think that mapping is about PP I suggest you play offline or slightly altered difficulties so that you can feed your ego for the map giving literally no PP.

Spacing creates emphasis, that is the baseline of mapping in ctb and in standard, hypers allow you to add more spacing and the speed of the catcher also eludes to that emphasis.

If that spacing leads to more hypers then that is how it is. You have the option to work on the PP system for ctb yourself, there is no need for mapping or maps themselves to change because people are scared of a number. If you judge the quality of a map by this number you are retarded to the extreme.
Image Material is not a bad map because it gives pp. Image Material is a bad map because of its poor emphasis and sloppy hyper usage. That is a reason to judge a map, not an arbitrary number that is created by a system that is known to be flawed by the community.
This is exactly one of the points I was trying to get across. Thank you Riari.

Also, this
video posted by Kingkevin30 is a very very good example of what I believe is good mapping in CTB for RANKED MAPS.

Tldr; It's not the mappers fault, not the players fault, it is everyone's fault. The hate on mappers is going to happen no matter what, they are public figures. Even though it's shitty, its gonna happen regardless.
Riari
743 posts
Joined April 2013
Riari
Mapping is a community thing if it goes through the ranking process.

People shower praise for 1/4 hyper patterns, they call them "fun" when unranked but unconditionally shit on them for a PP value the mapper has no control over. Everybody has their say on a map when it is pending, commenting on sections that may feel rough or have a awkward timeline; these are things you don't need to have modding experience to point out.


Instead of bitching about a map, go comment on it during qualified or pending to improve it. Disqualification is now a community process that QATs only take action upon, so do something for the map instead of chatting shit on the forums for a Chinese fruit grabbing game.
iiyo
522 posts
Joined March 2013
iiyo
i hate to be toxic but none of you know what you are talking about in terms of clsw's maps or style of mapping in general kingkevin30 and chickenbible and riari
Secre
Nomination Assessment Team
366 posts
Joined January 2013
Secre

Riari wrote:

Mapping is a community thing if it goes through the ranking process.

Instead of bitching about a map, go comment on it during qualified or pending to improve it. Disqualification is now a community process that QATs only take action upon, so do something for the map instead of chatting shit on the forums for a Chinese fruit grabbing game.
This is what I said needs to be done here

"The community in general wants the best quality maps getting ranked, and as of late I personally think that's not happening. Is it the mappers fault? No. Is it the top ranking community's fault? No. It's everyone. Myself included, I wish I would have looked at several of the ranked maps today and modded them and helped make them even BETTER than they are now. I completely regret not modding maps in the past and it's going to be one of the things that I'll be doing in the future, to try to make this community and the ranked maps better."
iiyo
522 posts
Joined March 2013
iiyo
i lost faith when king kevin said that scythe has random hypers older players are just to used to the older meta i guess and can't adapt well
Kimitakari
Beatmap Nominator
1,533 posts
Joined August 2014
Kimitakari
Ctb ranking system its just a joke. Dont bother it
Kingkevin30
629 posts
Joined November 2010
Kingkevin30

Fantasy wrote:

i lost faith when king kevin said that scythe has random hypers older players are just to used to the older meta i guess and can't adapt well
could you maybe stop making statements and just eleborate what you mean?
Riari
743 posts
Joined April 2013
Riari

Fantasy wrote:

i hate to be toxic but none of you know what you are talking about in terms of clsw's maps or style of mapping in general kingkevin30 and chickenbible and riari
Style is not a limitless thing and must adhere to criteria and guidelines, there are blatant parts in his maps that are overmapped/overpatterned and they don't need to be understood as they are misused.
iiyo
522 posts
Joined March 2013
iiyo
says riari the lowranked player who has no map play knowledge, clsw maps dump style that emphasizes on ghost rhythm *rhythm you can follow in your brain but not apparent in the actual song* commonly used in stepmania or 7k maps, it's used to boost difficulty (not really for pp) in a map. also argueing rhythm in ctb is quite foolish considering ctb is not a rhythm game but a timing game


https://youtu.be/gglJbqQmhoE?t=3m49s listen to my keys on my keyboard, theres a beat there, don't listen to the hypers but instead how you play the map its own


people map differently please respect them and don't call them (random hypers) or (Image Material is not a bad map because it gives pp. Image Material is a bad map because of its poor emphasis and sloppy hyper usage. )


this is purely ignorance based on that you cant really play anything to begin with so you look at it from a mapper's point of view.
ExGon
Former osu!catch Champion: 2017
546 posts
Joined December 2009
ExGon

Kingkevin30 wrote:

If maybe two or 3 people would focus on that distinct style of mapping then sure, im fine with that....but almost every map that comes out nowadays feels like a lifeless blob.
my hypothesis here:


1. some mappers map for pp performance, using pp patterns is one of the easiest(or only) way to make "easy to catch but looks hard(get great performance)".

2. some overdose diffs mapped before dec 2014 were big inspiration for many ctb mappers. they've been trying to copy styles, rank more maps used those styles, and that patterns are now on recent trend.


anyway everything is relative
Zak
641 posts
Joined February 2012
Zak
Man this thread is fucking edgy

Also stop claiming someone has zero knowledge over hard maps simply because they're not a top tier player, that's not only outright disrespectful but also really arrogant.
Riari
743 posts
Joined April 2013
Riari

Fantasy wrote:

says riari the lowranked player who has no map play knowledge, clsw maps dump style that emphasizes on ghost rhythm *rhythm you can follow in your brain but not apparent in the actual song* commonly used in stepmania or 7k maps, it's used to boost difficulty (not really for pp) in a map. also argueing rhythm in ctb is quite foolish considering ctb is not a rhythm game but a timing game


https://youtu.be/gglJbqQmhoE?t=3m49s listen to my keys on my keyboard, theres a beat there, don't listen to the hypers but instead how you play the map its own


people map differently please respect them and don't call them (random hypers) or (Image Material is not a bad map because it gives pp. Image Material is a bad map because of its poor emphasis and sloppy hyper usage. )


this is purely ignorance based on that you cant really play anything to begin with so you look at it from a mapper's point of view.
You wanna know why there is a rhythm?

The editor snaps to a BPM and the hypers follow that, it's rather magical.
iiyo
522 posts
Joined March 2013
iiyo

ExGon wrote:

my hypothesis here:


1. some mappers map for pp performance, using pp patterns is one of the easiest(or only) way to make "easy to catch but looks hard(get great performance)".

2. some overdose diffs mapped before dec 2014 were big inspiration for many ctb mappers. they've been trying to copy styles, rank more maps used those styles, and that patterns are now on recent trend.


anyway everything is relative

couldn't be said better 100% correct
Kingkevin30
629 posts
Joined November 2010
Kingkevin30

Fantasy wrote:

ExGon wrote:

my hypothesis here:


1. some mappers map for pp performance, using pp patterns is one of the easiest(or only) way to make "easy to catch but looks hard(get great performance)".

2. some overdose diffs mapped before dec 2014 were big inspiration for many ctb mappers. they've been trying to copy styles, rank more maps used those styles, and that patterns are now on recent trend.


anyway everything is relative

couldn't be said better 100% correct
That was my exact point xD but now that exgon said it you start appreaciating it wut?
iiyo
522 posts
Joined March 2013
iiyo
"You wanna know why there is a rhythm?

The editor snaps to a BPM and the hypers follow that, it's rather magical."


"Also stop claiming someone has zero knowledge over hard maps simply because they're not a top tier player, that's not only outright disrespectful but also really arrogant."

"That was my exact point xD but now that exgon said it you start appreaciating it wut?"

kingkevin: i was talking about the video you linked on scythe on my post


riari: please stop, its hard to watch


zak: lol, i wasn't talking about being a top tier player i was talking about the experience he has with patterning and styles that other people use, ctb is not a rhythm game its a game that ties with ghost noting and dash mechanics, it has nothing to do with rhythm at all
Last edited by iiyo , edited 1 time in total.
RAMPAGE88
128 posts
Joined August 2010
RAMPAGE88

Zak wrote:

Man this thread is fucking edgy

Also stop claiming someone has zero knowledge over hard maps simply because they're not a top tier player, that's not only outright disrespectful but also really arrogant.
It's, but his statement isn't completely wrong.
Kingkevin30
629 posts
Joined November 2010
Kingkevin30

Fantasy wrote:

lol, i wasn't talking about being a top tier player i was talking about the experience he has with patterning and styles that other people use, ctb is not a rhythm game its a game that ties with ghost noting and dash mechanics, it has nothing to do with rhythm at all
totally no experience, not like i've played 1/4th of all ranked maps, and don't go on the "ohh you haven't played all the hardcore bullshit" ....i did, i can appreative it, analyze it, and come to my own conclusions about its design.

Edit : didn't know if you were reffering to me or Riari
Last edited by Kingkevin30 , edited 1 time in total.
iiyo
522 posts
Joined March 2013
iiyo

Kingkevin30 wrote:

totally no experience, not like i've played 1/4th of all ranked maps, and don't go on the "ohh you haven't played all the hardcore bullshit" ....i did, i can appreative it, analyze it, and come to my own conclusions about its design.

yea man i love playing hard converts from 2008, really represents the current meta
Kingkevin30
629 posts
Joined November 2010
Kingkevin30

Fantasy wrote:

Kingkevin30 wrote:

totally no experience, not like i've played 1/4th of all ranked maps, and don't go on the "ohh you haven't played all the hardcore bullshit" ....i did, i can appreative it, analyze it, and come to my own conclusions about its design.

yea man i love playing hard converts from 2008, really represents the current meta
Hmmm how weird, Kevin actually played all diffs but 2, totally not exposed to the new meta
iiyo
522 posts
Joined March 2013
iiyo

Kingkevin30 wrote:

Hmmm how weird, Kevin actually played all diffs but 2, totally not exposed to the new meta
sick seems your platter and rain knowledge is higher than mine


seriously tho you mentioned scythe and im trying to tlel you and riari that you literally ARE NOT experienced enough to play it thus you cannot judge styles like that, that's like me being a rank 400 and not being able to play dash hopes 3 or der wald and saying they are shit maps! random hypers! not fun! haha xD
Jasmine
103 posts
Joined April 2014
Jasmine
Now the look of a map is more privileged than the technical, for a lot of people if it's impressive to see = hard

I thinks it's the PP system fault, because with this system you NEED to put hyperdashes for up the stars ratings.

People don't like a map who is hard and no pp and some BN's have afraid to bubble a map who is underrated.

As long the pp system is not good, NEVER we will see again this excellent kinds of mapping ranked:

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/17744&m=2

( with the old PP system this map is 6.83* )
iiyo
522 posts
Joined March 2013
iiyo
tbh we need to rank oracle whos with me
Ascendance
Elite Mapper
4,225 posts
Joined July 2013
Ascendance

Morsay wrote:

People don't like a map who is hard and no pp and some BN's have afraid to bubble a map who is underrated.

As long the pp system is not good, NEVER we will see again this excellent kinds of mapping ranked:

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/17744&m=2

( with the old PP system this map is 6.83* )
This is probably the dumbest thing I've heard. List me any time where a BN has considered star rating or pp in the event of qualifying a map? Stop trying to pin blame on Nominators. A map can be different and it will be ranked just fine. But that map should be QUALITY.

Hello. I'm someone who's experimented with different styles (Ikazuchi https://osu.ppy.sh/s/424208) and it took me much longer (11 pages of mods) to get it ranked. That should be obvious, something that is different will obviously need more mods to hit a rankable state. Compare that to something like my Nanairo Symphony (https://osu.ppy.sh/s/488149). The map got ranked in 4 mods because it follows a safe style of mapping.

Yes, methods of mapping are much cleaner and safer to rank than others, which is why you see them more. But NEVER can you say that different styles are "oppressed" or "looked down on". If you put in the time and effort to get something ranked, you will.
Kingkevin30
629 posts
Joined November 2010
Kingkevin30

Fantasy wrote:

Kingkevin30 wrote:

Hmmm how weird, Kevin actually played all diffs but 2, totally not exposed to the new meta
sick seems your platter and rain knowledge is higher than mine


seriously tho you mentioned scythe and im trying to tlel you and riari that you literally ARE NOT experienced enough to play it thus you cannot judge styles like that, that's like me being a rank 400 and not being able to play dash hopes 3 or der wald and saying they are shit maps! random hypers! not fun! haha xD
Ok, im gonna repeat myself once again, you are shitting on my video...but you didn't grasp the freakin point....it was about MUSICAL EMPHISIS,
His Pattering and Hyperusage can of course be used to give you taktile feedback aka. your weird ghost noting and gameplay wise thats fine.
BUT THE NOTES AND THEIR PLACEMENT THEMSELFS ARE NOT EMPHESISING ANYTHING but the freakin snare that goes bonkers in the background, which pretty much just lets him place whatever.....and Thats why i find that his pattering is not EMPHESISING the FREAKIN Intesity&Feel of the music itself
Amlink
186 posts
Joined February 2014
Amlink
If people want good maps ranked somebody message starrodkirby86 and get some more kirby mix's made other than that I have 0 faith in timeless maps being made in 2016
iiyo
522 posts
Joined March 2013
iiyo
ctb is not a rhythm game
Zak
641 posts
Joined February 2012
Zak

Amlink wrote:

If people want good maps ranked somebody message starrodkirby86 and get some more kirby mix's made other than that I have 0 faith in timeless maps being made in 2016
I thought Paranoid Lost was an amazing map tbh
Secre
Nomination Assessment Team
366 posts
Joined January 2013
Secre

Amlink wrote:

If people want good maps ranked somebody message starrodkirby86 and get some more kirby mix's made other than that I have 0 faith in timeless maps being made in 2016
hell yes my dude
iiyo
522 posts
Joined March 2013
iiyo
starrodkirby86
starrodkirby86
starrodkirby86
starrodkirby86
starrodkirby86
starrodkirby86
starrodkirby86
starrodkirby86
starrodkirby86
PLEASE
Jasmine
103 posts
Joined April 2014
Jasmine

Ascendance wrote:

Morsay wrote:

People don't like a map who is hard and no pp and some BN's have afraid to bubble a map who is underrated.

As long the pp system is not good, NEVER we will see again this excellent kinds of mapping ranked:

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/17744&m=2

( with the old PP system this map is 6.83* )
This is probably the dumbest thing I've heard. List me any time where a BN has considered star rating or pp in the event of qualifying a map? Stop trying to pin blame on Nominators. A map can be different and it will be ranked just fine. But that map should be QUALITY.

Hello. I'm someone who's experimented with different styles (Ikazuchi https://osu.ppy.sh/s/424208) and it took me much longer (11 pages of mods) to get it ranked. That should be obvious, something that is different will obviously need more mods to hit a rankable state. Compare that to something like my Nanairo Symphony (https://osu.ppy.sh/s/488149). The map got ranked in 4 mods because it follows a safe style of mapping.

Yes, methods of mapping are much cleaner and safer to rank than others, which is why you see them more. But NEVER can you say that different styles are "oppressed" or "looked down on". If you put in the time and effort to get something ranked, you will.
Oh okay sorry sir i will wait to see ranked another map look like Avalon no oka https://osu.ppy.sh/s/218623
Please call me please when this days happening :)

>different styles
>Ikazuchi (sliders jump , AR 9.5 )
hahahaha i thinks we don't have the same definition of "different"

Another example (because you have ignore the first) of different style : https://osu.ppy.sh/b/51945&m=2
Ascendance
Elite Mapper
4,225 posts
Joined July 2013
Ascendance
This isn't 2010 anymore. Wake up.
iiyo
522 posts
Joined March 2013
iiyo

Ascendance wrote:

This isn't 2010 anymore. Wake up.
Wake up. 🔥
Kyptoric
201 posts
Joined January 2012
Kyptoric
I love memes
Secre
Nomination Assessment Team
366 posts
Joined January 2013
Secre

Fantasy wrote:

Ascendance wrote:

This isn't 2010 anymore. Wake up.
Wake up. 🔥
CHICKEN BIIIIBLE
Ascendance
Elite Mapper
4,225 posts
Joined July 2013
Ascendance
Well really, I don't know what else to say. If you enjoy 2010 maps, play 2010 maps. Stop flaming mappers because they don't map things you like. Have you considered that maybe we want to map stuff that we enjoy sometimes?
Tenshichan
595 posts
Joined September 2011
Tenshichan

Ascendance wrote:

[...] A map can be different and it will be ranked just fine. But that map should be QUALITY.

Hello. I'm someone who's experimented with different styles (Ikazuchi https://osu.ppy.sh/s/424208) and it took me much longer (11 pages of mods) to get it ranked. That should be obvious, something that is different will obviously need more mods to hit a rankable state. Compare that to something like my Nanairo Symphony (https://osu.ppy.sh/s/488149). The map got ranked in 4 mods because it follows a safe style of mapping.

Yes, methods of mapping are much cleaner and safer to rank than others, which is why you see them more. But NEVER can you say that different styles are "oppressed" or "looked down on". If you put in the time and effort to get something ranked, you will.
This is an important point and also a huge problem. People want their stuff quickly ranked and appreciated, they go for this safe approach even when they might not even like it themselves. That leads to a lot of generic mapping and no creativity. I like Ikazuchi or Avalon no Oka for having a different approach and that should definately happen more often, but how high are the chances? Yeah.

Also, BNs are usually the people who could actually try a different way/method of mapping as they have more power to get their ideas through, but they usually don't. Always remember you are the role models in this case and many people will simply follow in your footsteps and do the same.

For example, we are having maps for songs which got popular because of certain standard mapsets, and there are even many paralells to it which just cries uncreativity. I mean, come on, at least put some effort in and use own ideas.
rostld
219 posts
Joined May 2014
rostld
maps are cool
Jasmine
103 posts
Joined April 2014
Jasmine

Ascendance wrote:

Well really, I don't know what else to say. If you enjoy 2010 maps, play 2010 maps. Stop flaming mappers because they don't map things you like. Have you considered that maybe we want to map stuff that we enjoy sometimes?
Avalon no oka is 2015 and i don't flamings mapper lol ? The only thing i blame is the PP system because he is bad. And i can enjoy PERFECTLY on a recent map ( ofc i prefer old mappings style but i don't hate the new map ), what is your problem Ascendance ? i don't understand your goal

+ you must read this before thinking " u hate only recent map cuz hyperdash cuz pp "

http://puu.sh/rcvU5/929e579899.png

And yes maybe you are surprised but yes for me xeno,image material and other stuff like this are a good map :)
I'm not this kinds of people who hate one map because PP ;)
Ascendance
Elite Mapper
4,225 posts
Joined July 2013
Ascendance
I generalized "you" to mean "everyone" it wasn't directly aimed at you so apologies if you thought I attacked you. I'm just tired of seeing all this stuff. Structured mapping styles look nice and play cleanly. Of course there's boring, safe maps in all modes. But you need to consider that we're one of the smallest modes so the amount of "new" things will obviously be smaller. Just be patient and maybe contribute to the modding community and you'll see more.

Also, at the point of "BN's have the power to move weirder stuff through" I kinda disagree. As an ex-bn, we're held to the same quality standards as the community. It's just the matter of experience and connections that we have the advantage.
PakaChan
164 posts
Joined August 2013
PakaChan
Learn to map and make your own shit.
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